Disproving The Theories Of SO6P Being Uzumaki + Hyuuga. Please Read

[Wolfus]

even though i donot care about that, i would like to say
its just as you said.
we dont even need to go into the details of japnese mythology.
kishimoto doesn't take evrything as it is in japnese mythology..he makes some changes.
e.g. it is mentioned in the mythology that the samehada was always with the three tailed beast and it used to live by feeding on the beast's chakra.
now,
has kishimoto even mentioned that?
no..because he is writing his own manga
if you are making theories then you should refer manga , not the whole mythology

Agreed.
I guess that the rikudou sennin might be the progenitor of all clans.

 

[Kazehokage]

If i've to believe the picture within the post it IS POSSIBLE to crossbreed the uzumaki and the hyuga, as the results are the same as senju+uchiha.
It states that the hyuga and uzumaki are directly descends from the sons of the so6p so it the picture itself disproves your theory!

Btw i'm on my phone so i couldn't reply
Wiith the picture i mean but it's the one below the theory about the lineage of te so6p

 

[Mitarashi]

This is exactly why when Naruto and Hinata have a kid it's going to be the second sage.

 

[Wolfus]

explain to me why anyone would want to destroy a clan because of sealing jutsu. there is more to there clan being destroyed bro

It was a time of war.

 

[Chuggs]

Agreed the SO6P is not an Uzumaki.
Too bad these sheep supporters of SO6P = Uzumaki won't listen to reason.

 

[spckoroma]

It was a time of war.

but to target one that is only know for sealing jutsu. and the main happens to belong to I think theres more to it then that

 

[Avinash012]

I dnt belive in theories(especially abt Sage's clan) ...I didn't even read u r thread ...I'll go with Manga ,Sage is not an uzumaki unless proven otherwise (By Manga)

 

[KGB Kakuzu]

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This would indeed be the most logical approach going on the idea of descendants.



Now, to be completely fair, it is good to note that it is not IMPOSSIBLE for the belief you are debunking to be untrue... this is because, while Shinobi Clans may not have existed... family clans, or family units still would have. The Uzumaki with Fuinjutsu take on a more Priestly Class- Like demeanor. The Hyuga have notably kept to themselves (old/archaic fighting style, were mentioned to be Konoha's oldest clan, notably keeping separate from Konoha as a collective). They appear more ancient and rudimentary compared to all of the other clans... nevertheless...




Considering the notion of "No Clans" during the sage's time, the fact that Uchiha and Senju formed from the Elder/Younger Son's descendants, and the idea that the Uzumaki are blood relatives of the Senju, I'd say most likely the four clans all owe their roots to the Elder and Younger son.



The key to note is that Obito doesn't say the Elder and Younger Son formed the clans and their names, but instead their ANCESTORS did. Ancestors is a very vague term which could be an immediate, or several hundred generations. With that... I'll continue,



Elder Son: Hyuga-Uchiha



It has been rumored that the Sharingan derived from the Byakugan... this is most likely a falsity, but instead both eyes developed from the Elder Son's Dojutsu. We have an unknown gap between the Elder Son, and his descendants officially forming as "Uchiha". As such, it is likely that there was a separation. One generation or member of a generation, decided that fighting the Elder Son ancestors was not the way to go... even if a difference of opinion existed. This ancestors eyes began to flush out the hatred, and they purified into the Byakugan. The other members (possibly even a majority), continued their hatred, and thus the sharingan continued to form.

Since we do not have specific dates of formation, but the note that Konoha's oldest clan is in fact the Hyuga (it was stated as fact, not Rumor) this means the Hyuga Clan formed first. However, with their reflective and no longer hateful lifestyle, most likely pacified, and kept themselves locked away from the constant wars around them. The Uchiha formed most likely shortly afterwards, and continued war with the Senju. This would help solidify Kakashi's more factual than rumored statement that the Hyuga are Konoha's oldest clan (playing on the words... they were the oldest individual clan in Konoha as opposed to a founding member), and the Sharingan is not formed from the Byakugan considering their relatively different powers.






Younger Son: Uzumaki-Senju


It is noted by Kushina that the Uzumaki are distant blood relatives to the Senju. Now this sounds like something closer to cousins. I would expect a more fatherly or foundational statement to come were the Senju born of the Senju. Likewise, I would expect more of a "We are a branch of the Senju" from Kushina if the Uzumaki formed from the Senju. As such, they most likely formed separate from each other, but from the same genetic ancestors (at one point in time). Since we do not have any age rumors to either clan other than descendance to the Younger son, we cannot logically place which clan is older.





Conclusion: Descent would go Sage ==> Elder Son, Younger Son ==> Oldest Clan- Hyuga, Simultaneously formed from rivalry- Uchiha and Senju, Undetermined but close to the others- Uzumaki




That's my thinking though... If it is true that the Uzumaki and Hyuga do not pre-date the Rikkudou Sennin... this is the most logical plot out of their existence I can speculate. Though, considering exact dates of the clan formations, and the prospect the clans existed, but not as Shinobi Clans cannot be 100% denied, there is always a possibility for a Hyuga/Uzumaki hybrid Sage Child. I just find the four descendant concept more to my liking, and it also better flows with the idea of a structureless anc chaotic time before the Sage defeated the Juubi.

 

[Aim64C]

its not a theory. its a fact that he is uchiha+senju alone.

If there weren't any clans before the Sage... then how can he be Uchiha+Senju?

he is not uzumaki nor hyuuga. read the thread bro.

Did read it.

Wasn't impressed. You simply said "this is fact" and posted a couple of manga pages that vaguely reference the Sage... and tried to use it as proof.

 

[Tazzilla88]

Just because the information we've been given so far doesn't insinuate it doesn't mean it's false. Naruto was named Uzumaki so for 3-400 some chapters it was just a theory that he was Minato's son and look how that turned out. You're basing your "fact" on unfinished information.

The Uzumkai had supreme sealing jutsu, who else had great sealing jutsu? The Sage. Who isn't known for sealing jutsu? Senju or Uchiha. Who's been able to be a jinchuriki for generations? Uzumaki and the Sage not Senju or Uchiha.

Also your scan of Hinata implies the Hyuga came first "They say the Uchiha clan's origins LIE WITH the Hyuga clan" that phrasing implies they stemmed FROM the Hyuga.

So to analyze that argument. Uzumaki known for sealing ergo powerful sealing jutsus should be Uzumaki? Then Senju are known for Stamina. 3rd Raikage has stamina but I doubt someone would make the argument he's of the Senju clan. Uchiha are known to have powerful spiritual energy, Hashirama nearly destroyed a building with his powerful spiritual energy, does that mean he's an Uchiha? Sarutobi's and Uchiha's are known for fire style techniques does that mean all Katon users or even the strongest Katon users should be from those two clans?
Also you seem to be implying that the Uzumaki clan came first. And that's where he got his sealing jutsus from. But then where did he get his kenkkei genkkei from since the Uzumaki clan doesn't have ocular prowess or particularly powerful chakra. Not the sort of chakra stamina feats of Senju characters.
Also there's only been three people of the Uzumaki clan in all of history to have been Jinchuurikis. Mito who subjected herself to that fate in order to protect the shinobi world. Kushina who was the only person among all of the Uzumaki to have special chakra compatible with Kurama. And her son who may have compatible chakra as well, but he was the most convenient person to have the bijuu placed inside of him. But then how would you explain the 4th Mizukage, or Bee? They were seemingly better jinchuurikis than Mito or Kushina. Full blooded Uzumaki's red hair and all.
Also the only characteristics the Uzumaki have that really relate to the Sage are those that relate to the Senju as well. Danzo had powerful sealing jutsu. As did Chiyo. As did all of Akatsuki. As did Minato, granted his are Uzumaki in origin. As did a number of other persons who are not Uzumaki. You really can't use sealing jutsu as proof that some one has Uzumaki lineage. Also who didn't have sealing jutsu despite being Uzumaki? Karin. It would actually make more sense for the Uzumaki to be an offshoot of the Senju or at the very least the Younger son than the Sage as they lack the Uchiha/Older Son characteristics.

Also those are rumors that the Hyuuga and the Uchiha are related. But if we look at the sage, then at his sons and we want to retain the theory that Hyuuga are related to the Uchiha. It would make more sense that the Byakugan is a watered down sharingan as both have the capability of seeing chakra. However the power granted with sharingan seems far greater than that of a byakugan. It seems unlikely a watered down kenkkei genkkei would be more powerful than it's full blooded predecessor. Especially sense the Uchiha seem to have greater ocular prowess and more powerful spiritual energy. It seems that the Hyuuga are an offshoot of the Uchiha/ Elder Son

 

[Transcendence]

Completely disagree. You didn't prove anything or actually disprove something. The point of a theory is to present a notion and present a conclusion based on empirical evidence. You have not, whereas SDO has...

 

[Made in Heaven]

I respectfully disagree .... Nice try though

 

[Tazzilla88]

Completely disagree. You didn't prove anything or actually disprove something. The point of a theory is to present a notion and present a conclusion based on empirical evidence. You have not, whereas SDO has...

Actually if we turn to formal logic SDO makes an inductive argument who conclusion comes to probability and not to fact so by definition of his argument he can't prove anything. Where as MR seems to be trying to use a Deductive argument to say "necessarily not X" as the propositions if they are true necessitates that the conclusion is also true. Unsuccessfully, but tried to make an assertion rather than a probability. But his argument should be framed inductively.

 

[thatgirl]

there is no proof of so6p being uzumaki or not being uzumaki, if there was proof of either case we wouldnt be discussing this

there are only hints which people interpret differently

 

[Transcendence]

Actually if we turn to formal logic SDO makes an inductive argument who conclusion comes to probability and not to fact so by definition of his argument he can't prove anything. Where as MR seems to be trying to use a Deductive argument to say "necessarily not X" as the propositions if they are true necessitates that the conclusion is also true. Unsuccessfully, but tried to make an assertion rather than a probability. But his argument should be framed inductively.

Both are mere propositions, as they are theories, but what MR is proposing is nothing more than manga pages and putting simple sentences beside them without an actual proposition. SDO does use deductive logic because based on his perspective, he deduced through the analyzing of many scans, that the Sage is an Uzumaki and has the respective symbolism, mythology etc. To prove it.

 

[Nous]

I disagree - it's been noted for a while and intelligent members noted that there is quite the possibility of Rikudo being an Uzumaki, even prior to Sir Derp's outstanding theories. You didn't really disaprove anything either.. ._.

 

[Bronze]

LMFAO. people saying i didn't prove anything when i clearly have. SO6P was Uchiha+Senju

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the manga is clearly saying that he is, and people go Sir Derp Obito says something else.

last time i checked kishi>sir dirp obito. you're using his theory as a fact when it goes against the manga statements. Uzumaki is descendants of Senju. His main evidence revolve around sealing jutsu when there is no proof that he used uzumaki sealing jutsu to seal juubi. all he is doing speculating while i am using manga.

Manga > theory

Kishimoto > Sir Dirp Obito

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

LMFAO. people saying i didn't prove anything when i clearly have. SO6P was Uchiha+Senju

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the manga is clearly saying that he is, and people go Sir Derp Obito says something else.

last time i checked kishi>sir dirp obito. you're using his theory as a fact when it goes against the manga statements. Uzumaki is descendants of Senju. His main evidence revolve around sealing jutsu when there is no proof that he used uzumaki sealing jutsu to seal juubi. all he is doing speculating while i am using manga.

Manga > theory

Kishimoto > Sir Dirp Obito

Looking beneath the underneath U_U



Viz:

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The Bijuus are but one example

So what were the other creations with Banbutsu Sozo aka Creation of All Things?

This:

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The Elder Son (Juubi's Yin) The Younger Son (Juubi's Yang)

The Uzumaki Heritage is Rikudou's true and original human bloodline prior to becoming the Juubi's Jinchuuriki.

The Uchiha (Yin) and Senju (Yang) powers come from the Juubi.

 

[Bronze]

Looking beneath the underneath U_U



Viz:

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The Bijuus are but one example

So what were the other creations with Banbutsu Sozo aka Creation of All Things?

This:

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

The Elder Son (Juubi's Yin) The Younger Son (Juubi's Yang)

The Uzumaki Heritage is Rikudou's true and original human bloodline prior to becoming the Juubi's Jinchuuriki.

The Uchiha (Yin) and Senju (Yang) powers come from the Juubi.

i am gonna disprove this again just like the last time.

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manga clearly says they inherited their father (SO6P) powers.

Yin = powerful chakra + dojutsu = Older Son
Yang = large chakra + life force = Younger Son

they got those powers from SO6P nothing mentions the juubi.

if they were created from juubi then why aren't they:

1-immortal
2-can use bijuu dama
3-have the juubi eye
4-juubi chakra
5-ability to create everything

answer these questions right now then genius

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

i am gonna disprove this again just like the last time.

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manga clearly says they inherited their father (SO6P) powers.

Yin = powerful chakra + dojutsu = Older Son
Yang = large chakra + life force = Younger Son

they got those powers from SO6P nothing mentions the juubi.

if they were created from juubi then why aren't they:

1-immortal
2-can use bijuu dama
3-have the juubi eye
4-juubi chakra
5-ability to create everything

answer these questions right now then genius

They acquired their father's powers as the Juubi's Jinchuuriki, the powers they acquired are from the Juubi