Difference between Minato /Tobirama and Gai

[xxSAGExx]

According to a lot of folks in the base Gai is faster than Minato and Tobirama in 7th gate.. only issue is.. hes really not. And folks are acting like 7th Gate Gai showed some super duper speed that put him automatically above Tobirama and Minato.. well thats a big misconception.. He technically is faster than them... and then he isn't.



Tobirama and Minato from the start were never on Gai's level as far as body speed goes.. anyone who claims they were is wrong. They are physically inferior. Despite both being drastically faster than 6th gate gai in travel speed via shunshin.. they can't replicate this:

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The most used scan to claim Gai is faster than Minato:

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^^^ I'm not gonna get into the plain out difference in those scenarios, should be visible to most.

- Gai pops up in front of Madara with crazy speed, while madara is in the little cover positon ( arm in front of your face and squinting to see through a bright light/explosion like Kakashi/Minato/Gaara were).

- Minato pops up in front of Madara with FTG speed , while Madara standing perfectly fine.

- Gai then proceeds to use his non-matched taijutsu skills with the enhanced speed he already had, which Minato wasn't on the level of even with Gai in only 6th gate or 5th gate

- Minato once he pops up with FTG in front of Madara has nowhere near the striking speed of someone like Gai, had no explosivness << nowhere near the same level as taijutsu of Gai.


^^^^^^^^^ the above was the difference in taijutsu skills... just like how in the battle the word "taijutsu" is emphasized over and over..The same word that has never been used for Minato or Tobirama in the entire manga.


When it comes to speed of Traveling and using speed skills like FTG.. Minato is still superior to Gai. Gai is simply better in Taijutsu.

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So if Gai is faster than Minato, due to his taijutsu skills and striking speed.. then he doesn't even need the 7th gate for that... he shits on Tobirama/Minato's striking speed in the 6th gate. But no clue why people use the reference of him displaying his taijutsu skills.

Somebody with who is skilled in fighting and can go to 100mph in speed , not just foot but physically.. will seem faster in a fight, compared to a guy who can only go 120 mph in simply distance speed. Sure the guy with 120 mph can approach the enemy faster.. but he doesn't have anywhere near the striking speed of the other guy to give a challenge..

Except that you are using alive Gai who has access to his full skills and capabilities while using Edo forms of Minato and Tobirama who stats are lower than when they are alive. The scan of Gai using that fire attack is a taijutsu move, it might use speed but it's more taijutsu skill and it can be used by Minato or Tobirama if they chose to learn it. Revived Madara (who was said to have his old power aka EMS Madara's) used Shunshin fast enough to actually knock SM Naruto (not at full strength) away while a Adam clone was able to dodge Edo 3rd Raikage). Shunshin (which is what Lee and Gai uses to increase their speed) determines their speed and distance by how much chakra they use, Jinchuurikis are going to have more chakra and some ninjas with large reserves can too.

Minato's Shunshin is so fast that he went from where Obito and Rin were all the way to where Kakashi speed blitz too a good amount of distance away in seconds, marked the guy and returned to Obito and Rin. His speed, even as an Edo, was fast enough to out run all Edo Hokages, mark the whole battlefield, and save the alliance. Also your example of Edo SM Minato attacking speed not being fast, Senjutsu awakens the body as Pa toad put it but Edo Minato's body isn't alive plus he had his chakra absorbed a few minutes before that so its not like he could use top notch Shunshin.

SM Minato is much faster than Gai, Senjutsu enhances all of your body's capabilities so it will increase Minato's speed to the same level it does his physical strength plus SM Minato using Shunshin would be far stronger since Senjutsu makes all ninjutsus, genjutsus, and taijutsus stronger and SM increases Minato's reserves even more so he can use even more chakra as well. Minato only said SM doesn't last long and takes time to mold the chakra which is exactly the same thing Naruto had to deal with in Pein arc which made Naruto call SM useless. 8th gate is more power than speed.

Edo Tobirama already called Edo Minato Shunshin faster than his but I still put Tobirama faster than Gai since he has more chakra to focus in his Shunshin.

 

[KingHashirama]

^^^^^^ Only Tobirama and Hashirama had lower stats as Edos, Minato and Hiruzen were revived at full power.


And I don't agree that Minato can match 8th gate Gai in shunshin speed. But considering the fact Tobirama and Minato have FTG.. they are the fastest.

 

[Troyg39]

Except that you are using alive Gai who has access to his full skills and capabilities while using Edo forms of Minato and Tobirama who stats are lower than when they are alive. The scan of Gai using that fire attack is a taijutsu move, it might use speed but it's more taijutsu skill and it can be used by Minato or Tobirama if they chose to learn it. Revived Madara (who was said to have his old power aka EMS Madara's) used Shunshin fast enough to actually knock SM Naruto (not at full strength) away while a Adam clone was able to dodge Edo 3rd Raikage). Shunshin (which is what Lee and Gai uses to increase their speed) determines their speed and distance by how much chakra they use, Jinchuurikis are going to have more chakra and some ninjas with large reserves can too.

Minato's Shunshin is so fast that he went from where Obito and Rin were all the way to where Kakashi speed blitz too a good amount of distance away in seconds, marked the guy and returned to Obito and Rin. His speed, even as an Edo, was fast enough to out run all Edo Hokages, mark the whole battlefield, and save the alliance. Also your example of Edo SM Minato attacking speed not being fast, Senjutsu awakens the body as Pa toad put it but Edo Minato's body isn't alive plus he had his chakra absorbed a few minutes before that so its not like he could use top notch Shunshin.

SM Minato is much faster than Gai, Senjutsu enhances all of your body's capabilities so it will increase Minato's speed to the same level it does his physical strength plus SM Minato using Shunshin would be far stronger since Senjutsu makes all ninjutsus, genjutsus, and taijutsus stronger and SM increases Minato's reserves even more so he can use even more chakra as well. Minato only said SM doesn't last long and takes time to mold the chakra which is exactly the same thing Naruto had to deal with in Pein arc which made Naruto call SM useless. 8th gate is more power than speed.

Edo Tobirama already called Edo Minato Shunshin faster than his but I still put Tobirama faster than Gai since he has more chakra to focus in his Shunshin.

The bold is fallacy. Nothing about Edo form has been stated to hinder a person's speed, only power.

Plus 8th Gate Gai is pushed beyond the limits of a human

^^^^^^ Only Tobirama and Hashirama had lower stats as Edos, Minato and Hiruzen were revived at full power.


And I don't agree that Minato can match 8th gate Gai in shunshin speed. But considering the fact Tobirama and Minato have FTG.. they are the fastest.

Movie's over. Reflex feat is not a speed feat. I keep telling people that

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Minato with FTG can't react to this striking speed. Yet you think he can react to a light traveling speed attack. A space-distortion speed attack. Gai's striking speed in 8th gate. Minato's relfexes aren't that good.

And even if they were, it would still only be attributable to his relfexes. Not his speed.

FTG would be faster than 8th Gate Gai, not Minato. Anything travelling via FTG moves at the same speed regardless of the distane. Minato's only involvement is his ability to activate it. He has no control over the speed of travel and does not produce it. His reaction, or lack thereof, however, does not take away from the speed of FTG.

Gai is the only human who can produce that kind of speed. Therefore he is the fastest

 

[Nick01]

I agree gai is faster than minato.

 

[KingHashirama]

Movie's over. Reflex feat is not a speed feat. I keep telling people that

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Minato with FTG can't react to this striking speed. Yet you think he can react to a light traveling speed attack. A space-distortion speed attack. Gai's striking speed in 8th gate. Minato's relfexes aren't that good.

And even if they were, it would still only be attributable to his relfexes. Not his speed.

FTG would be faster than 8th Gate Gai, not Minato. Anything travelling via FTG moves at the same speed regardless of the distane. Minato's only involvement is his ability to activate it. He has no control over the speed of travel and does not produce it. His reaction, or lack thereof, however, does not take away from the speed of FTG.

Gai is the only human who can produce that kind of speed. Therefore he is the fastest

@Bold what??

Nobody in this series is freaking light speed...... loooollll. Dude literally the only thing that comes close to light speed is the teleportation time of FTG or Sasuke's eye technique, these are the only techniques that allow the person to move at near "instant" speed. No person in this manga can move at light speed. Do you know how fast light speed is?? Madara would not be able to put any sort of thing up against gai, or even have the chance to think , if Gai was moving at light speed.

Lightspeed: 299 792 458 m / s <<<<<< This is not Gai .


@2nd Bold, yet there is already a scan of him coming in front of Gai while Gai was only 1-2 meters away.. and then poofing right when the orbs touch him.. with Gai pretty much a feet or so away.. Yet you claim he can't react to 8th gate. Denying a factual event mate.



Furthermore, for Gai to use his "Striking speed".. he has to come at Minato.. Minato has already shown the ability, to be able to teleport faster than an 8th gate attack.


Your whole argument relies on Gai's 1 punch that distorted space ONCE... something he couldn't do more than once, and had to do it with all the power he had left.

- Gaara was able to see Gai's 8th gate attack

- Kakashi was able to use Kamui before the attack could land.

But Minato can't react to that speed, despite poofing the very moment the orbs came in contact with him. Has Gai shown anything close to that? no.

Minato > Gai in reflexes..

Minato > Gai in speed.. due to Minato possessing FTG.


You are literally going on about how Minato can't react to 8th gate Gai's speed.. while already doing so. And then your counter to that.. was how it wasn't the same punch that distorted space, you said this without realizing that was gai's "rage" and "all out" attack. As long as Minato has the chance to think, he can teleport.


"gai is the only human who can produce that kind of speed"... body speed? Yes.. Travel speed?? No, Tobirama's creation of FTG triumphs that. And I will ask you again, is Usain bolt the fastest man in the world, or the fastest punchers/kickers are the fastest people in the world?

Gai was already shitting on Minato as far as striking speed goes in base, just with 6th gate. Since Minato can't strike fast enough to produce fireballs, do you claim that Gai is faster than Minato?

 

[Josephmszz]

Still laughing at the fact that people are comparing these two when it isn't even the same. FTG is instant, nothing is faster than that, period. However, FTG isn't speed. please tell me the measurement of speed that Minato goes when using FTG. You can't, because it isn't speed. Gais speed is faster, because his can be measured. He went from A>>>>>>B whereas Minato goes straight from A B. You can't measure minatos distance, it's instant. You can't compare speed to instantaneous teleportation. It's like someone racing with another person, and one of them teleports. Sure he was faster, but he doesn't have any travel speed considering it is instant teleportation. Being fast and speed are two totally different concepts. When it comes to who's faster, it's Minato. But when it comes to raw speed, and reflexes which let Gai land a hit in Madara, Gai wins on these categories. It's the same reason that FTG is faster than Shunshin, you can't compare the two.

 

[Troyg39]

@Bold what??

Nobody in this series is freaking light speed...... loooollll. Dude literally the only thing that comes close to light speed is the teleportation time of FTG or Sasuke's eye technique, these are the only techniques that allow the person to move at near "instant" speed. No person in this manga can move at light speed. Do you know how fast light speed is?? Madara would not be able to put any sort of thing up against gai, or even have the chance to think , if Gai was moving at light speed.

Lightspeed: 299 792 458 m / s <<<<<< This is not Gai .


@2nd Bold, yet there is already a scan of him coming in front of Gai while Gai was only 1-2 meters away.. and then poofing right when the orbs touch him.. with Gai pretty much a feet or so away.. Yet you claim he can't react to 8th gate. Denying a factual event mate.



Furthermore, for Gai to use his "Striking speed".. he has to come at Minato.. Minato has already shown the ability, to be able to teleport faster than an 8th gate attack.


Your whole argument relies on Gai's 1 punch that distorted space ONCE... something he couldn't do more than once, and had to do it with all the power he had left.

- Gaara was able to see Gai's 8th gate attack

- Kakashi was able to use Kamui before the attack could land.

But Minato can't react to that speed, despite poofing the very moment the orbs came in contact with him. Has Gai shown anything close to that? no.

Minato > Gai in reflexes..

Minato > Gai in speed.. due to Minato possessing FTG.


You are literally going on about how Minato can't react to 8th gate Gai's speed.. while already doing so. And then your counter to that.. was how it wasn't the same punch that distorted space, you said this without realizing that was gai's "rage" and "all out" attack. As long as Minato has the chance to think, he can teleport.


"gai is the only human who can produce that kind of speed"... body speed? Yes.. Travel speed?? No, Tobirama's creation of FTG triumphs that. And I will ask you again, is Usain bolt the fastest man in the world, or the fastest punchers/kickers are the fastest people in the world?/B]

Gai was already shitting on Minato as far as striking speed goes in base, just with 6th gate. Since Minato can't strike fast enough to produce fireballs, do you claim that Gai is faster than Minato?

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This is the attack that Minato reacted to. Evening Elephant - Issoku

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This is his final attack against Madara, a completely different technique. It wasn't his "rage" and "all out attack" as you put it. He had been holding back prior to this, saving his best for last, like we've seen over and over again in fights.

I'm using this example as opposed to the one you provided for two simple reasons:

1. It's 8th Gate Gai at his fastest
2. He was moving fast enough to distort time and space (further proving he was far superior in speed during this attack)

You make it seem as if Gai couldn't have opened up from the start of 8th Gate (while he had more stamina and chakra left) with this attack. He waited until the end to show us his fastest move. If you aren't going to use his fastest attack as his reference point for his speed, you can't properly make your argument. Which is why after all of this you still haven't made a proper one.

We know for a fact this is a much faster attack than any other ones he's shown, because of the fact that it distorted space. I said "light traveling" speed because that is an example of something that can distort space. Space distortion speed is warping level speed, or "near instant".

While we're at it let's debunk your Bolt vs puncher reference. Bolt is faster than the puncher. He can move and travel at speeds faster than than the puncher. Speed is distance/time after all. As you said, striking speed isn't the same as traveling speed. Now suppose the puncher gets a car. The puncher would cover more distance in less time than Bolt while traveling in the car, however, the speed is attributable to the car, not the puncher. It isn't the puncher, but the car, that can move at that speed. It's the same thing with FTG. The speed of FTG is not Minato's speed, it's simply the speed of the technique.

See I merely opened with Minato not being able to dodge 8th Gate Gai at his fastest to combat your poor use of examples. But even without that, Gai is faster than Minato. You said if he has time to think he can teleport fast enough to get out of the way.

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He had time to think, but not only lost his arm, he got planted with a bomb as well, even with FTG. But would you say "FTG's speed was too slow" in this case? No you wouldn't. Minato's reflexes were too slow, which says nothing about the speed of FTG because they aren't one and the same. He simply couldn't react fast enough. Had Minato himself actually been in control of the speed himself, he would've had a much more effective effort in dodging this attack, because the time spent having to think and react could've been used to simply move. But as I said, a reflex feat is not a speed feat. FTG's speed is not Minato's speed, because nothing Minato does affects FTG's speed.

Gai is the only person who can produce traveling speed like the one shown in his attack against Madara. Minato can not do this, therefore he isn't faster. If you want to argue that FTG's rate of travel is faster than Gai then that's open for discussion. But, as much as I appreciate the wanking of my man Minato, trying to make the argument that he's faster than Gai in 8th Gate and using his reflexes (though some of the best in the manga) as your only viable talking point isn't viable at all.

And btw, Gai's last attack that distorted space was a kick, not a punch. I love how you speak as if I'm the one who does not know the finer details of the manga events :|

 

[YellowFang]

Sorry, I couldn't get your point...

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But,
Speed is not a deciding factor in a fast paced battle, it's striking speed...
FTG sure provides instantaneous transportation but that's it, after the transportation it all comes down to person's physical abilities...

e.g. in Minato V Madara: Minato arrived there instantly but as soon as he continued his thrust, Madara with better reflexes and striking speed, disarmed(literally) him and provided his counter...
In Gai V Madara: Gai was faster on foot and struck quicker than Madara's reactions, Madara didn't had time to get in a proper stance to provide counter...

Speed =/= Striking speed


P.S.
Those who have watched OP,
In Ennies Lobby, Luffy V Blueno... After G2 when Blueno approached Luufy with his super speed, he got punched back because of Luffy's much better striking speed...

 

[Troyg39]

Sorry, I couldn't get your point...

Spoiler

But,
Speed is not a deciding factor in a fast paced battle, it's striking speed...
FTG sure provides instantaneous transportation but that's it, after the transportation it all comes down to person's physical abilities...

e.g. in Minato V Madara: Minato arrived there instantly but as soon as he continued his thrust, Madara with better reflexes and striking speed, disarmed(literally) him and provided his counter...
In Gai V Madara: Gai was faster on foot and struck quicker than Madara's reactions, Madara didn't had time to get in a proper stance to provide counter...

Speed =/= Striking speed


P.S.
Those who have watched OP,
In Ennies Lobby, Luffy V Blueno... After G2 when Blueno approached Luufy with his super speed, he got punched back because of Luffy's much better striking speed...

Ding Ding Ding! And we have a winner right here. The fastest man is not the man that gets hit first.

 

[KingHashirama]

Ding Ding Ding! And we have a winner right here. The fastest man is not the man that gets hit first.

DW, homes, just getting a Viz for a scan. Though do know that Minato is fast enough to teleport from Night moth, if its done from the same distance as it was done for Madara.

Madara's speed is vastly inferior to that of FTG. Minato came in front and then poofed out of... the same attack Madara couldn't dodge. You are sadly, not even looking at your Fav character properly.

I'll post a proper counter your argument once i get the viz. ^_^


PS: Gai has always been moving faster than Minato as far as "physical" goes, even before 8th gate.

 

[Troyg39]

DW, homes, just getting a Viz for a scan. Though do know that Minato is fast enough to teleport from Night moth, if its done from the same distance as it was done for Madara.

Madara's speed is vastly inferior to that of FTG. Minato came in front and then poofed out of... the same attack Madara couldn't dodge. You are sadly, not even looking at your Fav character properly.

I'll post a proper counter your argument once i get the viz. ^_^


PS: Gai has always been moving faster than Minato as far as "physical" goes, even before 8th gate.

King Hashirama Let me try and put it to you another way. The reason Minato with FTG isn't faster than Gai is because the part of FTG that is attributed to Minato's speed is limited, where Gai isn't. A simpler way to put it: Minato's speed with FTG isn't FTG's speed. Minato's speed with FTG is FTG's instantaneous speed limited to how far and how fast Minato can place a marker, and then activate the jutsu.

You keep trying to make a separate "travel speed" category, but there is no such thing. Speed is travel within itself as it is distance/time. That is what traveling is. And as a numerical value, it creates a ratio. And to affect one part of the ratio is to change the other. The problem is that when you factor in Minato with FTG's speed, it is no longer instantanous if we are talking about a distance/time ratio

Let's say Minato can throw a kunai marker 100,000m in 4 seconds.
Gai, in 8th Gate form, can travel at space-distortion speeds, can travel 100,000m in 3 seconds. FTG, being instantaneous, moves an object 100,000m in 0 seconds

Now let's go ahead and have Minato's first kunai marker already set, taking out his part in the process.

Minato with FTG gets to 100,000m in 0 second
Gai with 8th Gate gets 100,000m in 3 seconds

Now let's add another 100,000m

Minato throw's kunai and it gets to 100,000m in 4 seconds, take 0 seconds for FTG..
Gai with 8th gate gets to next 100,000m in 3 seconds

So we have Minato taking 4 seconds to 200,000m
And Gai taking 6 seconds to 200,000m

Seems like Minato is faster right? But ahhh, ratios. Add another 200,000m

Minato 12 seconds(+8) to 400,000m
Gai 12 seconds(+6) to 400,000m

Now they're equal. Add another 200,000m

Minato 20 seconds to 600,000m
Gai 18 seconds to 600,000m

See, you can not use FTG's speed and say it's "Minato's speed with FTG" because it is different. Notice I even DRASTICALLY overstated the rate a kunai thrown by Minato can keep up with Gai at his fastest in 8th gate and it still works out this way.

Gai is faster using the simple distance/time ratio, which is speed. And as the distance increases Gai becomes relatively faster than Minato due to Minato's limit on FTG's speed. In any ratio to affect one aspect is to affect the other. Thus "speed" isn't limited to a set distance. In order for it to be considered speed, it must move at the same rate, or same distance per amount of time, even as distance increases.

It is not mathematically possible for Minato to be faster than Gai

 

[KingHashirama]

King Hashirama Let me try and put it to you another way. The reason Minato with FTG isn't faster than Gai is because the part of FTG that is attributed to Minato's speed is limited, where Gai isn't. A simpler way to put it: Minato's speed with FTG isn't FTG's speed. Minato's speed with FTG is FTG's instantaneous speed limited to how far and how fast Minato can place a marker, and then activate the jutsu.

FTG Markers are already placed by Minato in the canon manga. And it takes him about a second to place the markers where he wants.

You can say he is limited.. but then acknowledge Gai is limited via 8th gate.. for only having that speed for 5 minutes or so. And dieing afterwards.

You keep trying to make a separate "travel speed" category, but there is no such thing. Speed is travel within itself as it is distance/time. That is what traveling is. And as a numerical value, it creates a ratio. And to affect one part of the ratio is to change the other. The problem is that when you factor in Minato with FTG's speed, it is no longer instantanous if we are talking about a distance/time ratio

Actually there is. Don't know how you still aren't able to understand it.. When Bruce lee hits faster than Usain Bolt, while Usain bolt runs much faster than Bruce Lee. In which scenario are they the same?

FTG is still instant, even if we talk about the Distance/time ratio.. now let me show you the flaws in your comparison bro.

Let's say Minato can throw a kunai marker 100,000m in 4 seconds.
Gai, in 8th Gate form, can travel at space-distortion speeds, can travel 100,000m in 3 seconds. FTG, being instantaneous, moves an object 100,000m in 0 seconds

It doesn't take 4 seconds for minato to throw a kunai. He can do so pretty much in the same time that Gai needs to charge up for his ability. So flaw right there. And of course this scenario depends on Minato not already having tag seals set up. I mean if its in konoha, he automatically has seals in various places.

Now let's go ahead and have Minato's first kunai marker already set, taking out his part in the process.

Minato with FTG gets to 100,000m in 0 second
Gai with 8th Gate gets 100,000m in 3 seconds

Flaw in your comparison = Gai actually having the speed to travel 62 miles within 3 seconds.. when he can barely travel a mile with that speed and in that time.

Now let's add another 100,000m

Minato throw's kunai and it gets to 100,000m in 4 seconds, take 0 seconds for FTG..
Gai with 8th gate gets to next 100,000m in 3 seconds

Yea and then gai still has to take a minute or so to complete 62 miles.. and thats counting if he doesn't break out of the 8th gate and start dieing.... While Minato can easily apply his shunshin and kunai throws and proceed without 0 problem.

So we have Minato taking 4 seconds to 200,000m
And Gai taking 6 seconds to 200,000m

you have Minato taking about 1 minute to 2 minutes to complete that 122 miles. While Gai taking much more than that.

Seems like Minato is faster right? But ahhh, ratios. Add another 200,000m

Minato 12 seconds(+8) to 400,000m
Gai 12 seconds(+6) to 400,000m

You add another 122 miles.. and now Gai has lost the power of the 8th gate.. while Minato is still traveling with FTG.

Now they're equal. Add another 200,000m

Minato 20 seconds to 600,000m
Gai 18 seconds to 600,000m

Gai is dead on the floor with a burning body, while Minato is still spamming shunshin and FTG.

See, you can not use FTG's speed and say it's "Minato's speed with FTG" because it is different. Notice I even DRASTICALLY overstated the rate a kunai thrown by Minato can keep up with Gai at his fastest in 8th gate and it still works out this way.

Sure, but you didn't realize that Gai doesn't travel that fast. Where you make the biggest mistake is , that what distorted space, was Gai's striking speed. Just like how in 6th gate he is sooo fast with his strikes that he creates fireballs.. in 7th gate the strike is so fast that he creates hirudora with it. And then in 8th gate, you have the Night moth, where he strikes so fast that his strike bends space.

^^^^^ This however has nothing to do with his actual travelling speed. Do you know why? Because the abilities and the techniques used by them are 2 different techniques relying on very different parts. Where Minato uses his chakra to travel fast. Gai trains his actual body physically to travel fast.

Gai is faster using the simple distance/time ratio, which is speed. And as the distance increases Gai becomes relatively faster than Minato due to Minato's limit on FTG's speed. In any ratio to affect one aspect is to affect the other. Thus "speed" isn't limited to a set distance. In order for it to be considered speed, it must move at the same rate, or same distance per amount of time, even as distance increases.

But you had flawed comparison.. Gai isn't fast as what you claim him to be as. He is nowhere near lightspeed.. he took more than 3 seconds to do the night moth on Madara, which didn't even have the distance of a mile.

It is not mathematically possible for Minato to be faster than Gai

Yes it is.. When Minato relies on a jutsu that uses space/time manipulation... compared to a guy who simply uses his physical body and isn't nowhere near instant in traveling... Minato is much faster.


Your favorite character bro.. came in front of Gai, when he was about 4 meters away, and trying to reach Madara as fast as he could, and then disappeared once the orbs touched him, while Gai was about a feet or 2 away from him. Even JJ Madara can't do that. He can't go "poof" ... Minato/Tobirama can. why? FTG and quick reactions.

 

[Troyg39]

FTG Markers are already placed by Minato in the canon manga. And it takes him about a second to place the markers where he wants.

You can say he is limited.. but then acknowledge Gai is limited via 8th gate.. for only having that speed for 5 minutes or so. And dieing afterwards.

You really tried with this one I'll give you that.

Wrong. See this is what people do not consider before making this argument. In regard to Minato's speed with FTG, you have to consider Minato's time to set his markers as apart of the equation. FTG's speed is not Minato's speed. In a battle, Minato still has to physically place each marker before it is effected. Even if he already had a marker placed, if you were to record the speed of Minato with FTG to that point you would have to include the time it took to set that point. Speed is distance/TIME.

FTG makes distance and time the same, that's how it gets you to whatever point you're at at the same rate. However if you want to travel to a point you've never been, like when in battle, you have to place a new marker, which takes time. Thus the reason you even take Minato's relfexes into consideration. He always has to physically set his markers, so before he can get to a new point, he has to take the time to set it. FTG doesn't instantly transfer you to a place you've never been before.

Unless you saying that Minato will fly off to random location miles away from the battlefield and 5 minutes for Gai to die, then he still wouldn't be considered faster because there is no longer any movement. Speed isn't limited to a point, that's why FTG's speed can't be considered Minato's speed with FTG. It limits the movement to a point, which no longer makes it a ratio. It is mathematically impossible and physically unfathomable.

Comparing his time to place markers to a target moving at space-distortion level speeds and then concluding that he will somehow place a marker at the exact point where Gai with 8th Gate will be and then be fast enough to strike when he couldn't even hit a still Sage Madara (thus we are back to square one: Gai's 8th Gate travel and strike>Sage Madara reflexes>Minato's travel and strike) is physically impossible for Minato. The only way he would be able to do so is if he places a marker directly on Gai, and he would be struck for sure at that range against Gai's speed before he can complete his strike. In the time that Minato takes to reappear and attempt to strike Gai, Gai will have been continuously moving. He'll either plow right through him if he's appears in front or run right by him if he appears anywhere else. Again we are talking about space-distortion level speeds.

Actually there is. Don't know how you still aren't able to understand it.. When Bruce lee hits faster than Usain Bolt, while Usain bolt runs much faster than Bruce Lee. In which scenario are they the same?

FTG is still instant, even if we talk about the Distance/time ratio.. now let me show you the flaws in your comparison bro.

I addressed most of this already. But:

You don't really have a mind for physics do you? I'm not trying to be funny I just thought you were like a major in it at first or something. You're Bruce Lee/Bolt argument is simple. They aren't the same, because you are thinking about what you're saying. In regards to hitting fastest, meaning the continuous rate one's fist (or whatever body parts you are comparing) can travel is faster, Bruce Lee's hands are faster than Bolt's. That makes perfect sense. In regards to running, moving the entire body (all objects in motion) at a faster rate (distance/time), then Bolt might win.

What you are missing is that you are trying to compare a fist strike to a full charge. Bruce Lee's fist moves faster than Usain Bolt can move his entire body, but only up until the point that his arm fully extends. Once it stops at that point, it is no longer speed, because there is now 0 distance in 0 time being traveled. A zero in the denominator means it's not a fraction, therefore it can't be a ratio, which means it can't be distance/time, which means it can't be a fraction. Usain Bolt's entire body is continuously moving rate without a defined stopping point, so there is always distance/time being traveled.

It's the same mistake you're making in your argument. Minato can only move as far as his marker with FTG, so if you rely on FTG's "speed", FTG can only put Minato at a marker he sets. It doesn't set the markers for you. So in order to get the ratio of the distance
traveled over time it takes, Minato's time to set the marker, even it were a previous one has to be taken into consideration in order to get a ratio of speed/time. FTG makes two points the same.

It doesn't take 4 seconds for minato to throw a kunai. He can do so pretty much in the same time that Gai needs to charge up for his ability. So flaw right there. And of course this scenario depends on Minato not already having tag seals set up. I mean if its in konoha, he automatically has seals in various places.



Flaw in your comparison = Gai actually having the speed to travel 62 miles within 3 seconds.. when he can barely travel a mile with that speed and in that time.


Yea and then gai still has to take a minute or so to complete 62 miles.. and thats counting if he doesn't break out of the 8th gate and start dieing.... While Minato can easily apply his shunshin and kunai throws and proceed without 0 problem.




you have Minato taking about 1 minute to 2 minutes to complete that 122 miles. While Gai taking much more than that.

You add another 122 miles.. and now Gai has lost the power of the 8th gate.. while Minato is still traveling with FTG.



Gai is dead on the floor with a burning body, while Minato is still spamming shunshin and FTG.


Sure, but you didn't realize that Gai doesn't travel that fast. Where you make the biggest mistake is , that what distorted space, was Gai's striking speed. Just like how in 6th gate he is sooo fast with his strikes that he creates fireballs.. in 7th gate the strike is so fast that he creates hirudora with it. And then in 8th gate, you have the Night moth, where he strikes so fast that his strike bends space.

^^^^^ This however has nothing to do with his actual travelling speed. Do you know why? Because the abilities and the techniques used by them are 2 different techniques relying on very different parts. Where Minato uses his chakra to travel fast. Gai trains his actual body physically to travel fast.




But you had flawed comparison.. Gai isn't fast as what you claim him to be as. He is nowhere near lightspeed.. he took more than 3 seconds to do the night moth on Madara, which didn't even have the distance of a mile.




Yes it is.. When Minato relies on a jutsu that uses space/time manipulation... compared to a guy who simply uses his physical body and isn't nowhere near instant in traveling... Minato is much faster.


Your favorite character bro.. came in front of Gai, when he was about 4 meters away, and trying to reach Madara as fast as he could, and then disappeared once the orbs touched him, while Gai was about a feet or 2 away from him. Even JJ Madara can't do that. He can't go "poof" ... Minato/Tobirama can. why? FTG and quick reactions.

The rest is just....no. I've already responded to you enough. I enjoyed the conversation but this literally mathematical impossibility and I've explained why as plainly as I could

 

[Tyris]

7th Gate Gai and 8th gate gai barely no dodging speed feats. While you were shown a scan of, where Minato was able to come between the black orbs and then poof once the black orbs made contact, while 8th gate gai's attack was nearly close to him. Your claim of him not being able to dodge the hit from JJ Madara, doesn't take anything away from a feat he showcased later on. Furthermore, MADARA DID REACT... he wasn't fast enough tho, he stepped back, however Gai's explosive and taijutsu movements allowed him to keep up with him. .. and guess what? Minato on the other hand went POOF right a mere feet or 2 feet away from Gai.



^^^^ You have failed to provide a counter to the scan that showed the 8th gai speed vs FTG.. and have been going on about "faster striking speed = Faster traveling speed".. when the whole logic behind that is stupid as hell.. and isn't even realistic.

Fastest man in the world = Guy who can travel from point A to point B the fastest.... NOT the guy who kicks and punches the fastest. Otherwise you would have boxers and kick boxers as the fastest people in the world, due to the fact they shit on Usain Bolt, in dodging/striking speed.. But that is not the case.

Minato has better reflexes than a JJ Madara who was caught by a surprise? hell yea he does. JJ Madara has no where near the speed of FTG... only thing that matches FTG speed is Sasuke's eye technique. That is it. FTG is the fastest ability in this series.

Using ftg to travel in & out w/ making an attack is completely different then ftg+attack(ftg+sr) and getting negged.

Yes minato is a faster distance closer due to ftg but unlike himself & tobirama.. Guy sensei will not just travel the distance but he will **** YOUR SHIT UP once in your face.

Ftg>guy at TRAVELING DISTANCES via s/t jutsu ONLY from point a-b

BUT

Guy's taijutsu striking and OVERALL body movement>>>>>>>ftg+attack(ftg+sr/tbrama-slice)

Even 7th gate showed more CONSTANT speed feats on same panel that ftg users couldnt... they can onky use ftg once than pull off a failed attack whilst Guy was abke to keep pressing Mads until arm was broke. Minatard+tbrama were low diffed 1shot afyer one attack lol

His attacks were blocked up til like 5-6 strike he had to fall back and whip out the long **** style night guy on Mads.

Whg is this even a debate. Fodder cant touch mads.. but Guy didnt get negged even after a broken arm and few ribs(?) lol

 

[Natsu Shazneel]

The difference is the hair styles.

 

[Tyris]

You really tried with this one I'll give you that.

Wrong. See this is what people do not consider before making this argument. In regard to Minato's speed with FTG, you have to consider Minato's time to set his markers as apart of the equation. FTG's speed is not Minato's speed. In a battle, Minato still has to physically place each marker before it is effected. Even if he already had a marker placed, if you were to record the speed of Minato with FTG to that point you would have to include the time it took to set that point. Speed is distance/TIME.

FTG makes distance and time the same, that's how it gets you to whatever point you're at at the same rate. However if you want to travel to a point you've never been, like when in battle, you have to place a new marker, which takes time. Thus the reason you even take Minato's relfexes into consideration. He always has to physically set his markers, so before he can get to a new point, he has to take the time to set it. FTG doesn't instantly transfer you to a place you've never been before.

Unless you saying that Minato will fly off to random location miles away from the battlefield and 5 minutes for Gai to die, then he still wouldn't be considered faster because there is no longer any movement. Speed isn't limited to a point, that's why FTG's speed can't be considered Minato's speed with FTG. It limits the movement to a point, which no longer makes it a ratio. It is mathematically impossible and physically unfathomable.

Comparing his time to place markers to a target moving at space-distortion level speeds and then concluding that he will somehow place a marker at the exact point where Gai with 8th Gate will be and then be fast enough to strike when he couldn't even hit a still Sage Madara (thus we are back to square one: Gai's 8th Gate travel and strike>Sage Madara reflexes>Minato's travel and strike) is physically impossible for Minato. The only way he would be able to do so is if he places a marker directly on Gai, and he would be struck for sure at that range against Gai's speed before he can complete his strike. In the time that Minato takes to reappear and attempt to strike Gai, Gai will have been continuously moving. He'll either plow right through him if he's appears in front or run right by him if he appears anywhere else. Again we are talking about space-distortion level speeds.




I addressed most of this already. But:

You don't really have a mind for physics do you? I'm not trying to be funny I just thought you were like a major in it at first or something. You're Bruce Lee/Bolt argument is simple. They aren't the same, because you are thinking about what you're saying. In regards to hitting fastest, meaning the continuous rate one's fist (or whatever body parts you are comparing) can travel is faster, Bruce Lee's hands are faster than Bolt's. That makes perfect sense. In regards to running, moving the entire body (all objects in motion) at a faster rate (distance/time), then Bolt might win.

What you are missing is that you are trying to compare a fist strike to a full charge. Bruce Lee's fist moves faster than Usain Bolt can move his entire body, but only up until the point that his arm fully extends. Once it stops at that point, it is no longer speed, because there is now 0 distance in 0 time being traveled. A zero in the denominator means it's not a fraction, therefore it can't be a ratio, which means it can't be distance/time, which means it can't be a fraction. Usain Bolt's entire body is continuously moving rate without a defined stopping point, so there is always distance/time being traveled.

It's the same mistake you're making in your argument. Minato can only move as far as his marker with FTG, so if you rely on FTG's "speed", FTG can only put Minato at a marker he sets. It doesn't set the markers for you. So in order to get the ratio of the distance
traveled over time it takes, Minato's time to set the marker, even it were a previous one has to be taken into consideration in order to get a ratio of speed/time. FTG makes two points the same.




The rest is just....no. I've already responded to you enough. I enjoyed the conversation but this literally mathematical impossibility and I've explained why as plainly as I could

You wasted ALOT on these kids... only ignorant, misinformed, biased idjits can think let alone believe that minato/tobirama>=Guy at striking speed. They can "run" faster in a given linear motion but they can never FIGHT remotely close to Guy taijutsu ability.

Id love to see those to fodder pull off a high speed air friction based attack all on striking speed from one position.

Hell minato relied on ftg to evade a young tobi during kyuubi rage and Guy woth nunchuku can go blow for blow and even evade/block attacks with his back fully turned... FLUIDLYLIKE A BOSS lol

 

[KingHashirama]

Using ftg to travel in & out w/ making an attack is completely different then ftg+attack(ftg+sr) and getting negged.

Ftg>guy at TRAVELING DISTANCES via s/t jutsu ONLY from point a-b

This is about speed. not about a fight. If this was a fight, all they really have to do is just go and hide and let Gai burn to death. Simple as that.


@Bold, glad that you agree, and thats what this thread was about. ;]

You wasted ALOT on these kids... only ignorant, misinformed, biased idjits can think let alone believe that minato/tobirama>=Guy at striking speed. They can "run" faster in a given linear motion but they can never FIGHT remotely close to Guy taijutsu ability.

Id love to see those to fodder pull off a high speed air friction based attack all on striking speed from one position.

Hell minato relied on ftg to evade a young tobi during kyuubi rage and Guy woth nunchuku can go blow for blow and even evade/block attacks with his back fully turned... FLUIDLYLIKE A BOSS lol

@1st bold, actually I was the one telling Troyg, that Gai without even truning 8th gate or 7th gate... shits on Minato in striking speed..


@2nd bold, I also stated Gai shits on Tobirama and Minato's skill without even turning 8th gate.


@3rd bold, they don't need to.

@4th bold, 2 very different attack situations.

 

[Tyris]

What did I just read
Guy can't hit Tobirama outside of 7/8 gate, and Tobirama can avoid any attack with ftg
Get wrecked son

Um dear child from my hairy nutsack...

Guy>>tb(as in the affiction)rama and by your logic negs That fodder in 7th. Or runs like a ***** cause he cant touch guy

 

[KingHashirama]

Um dear child from my hairy nutsack...

Guy>>tb(as in the affiction)rama and by your logic negs That fodder in 7th. Or runs like a ***** cause he cant touch guy

Tobirama low-diffs Gai, unless he turns 7th gate.

 

[Tyris]

Tobirama low-diffs Gai, unless he turns 7th gate.

I got you mixed up with his quote KH. Am at work skimming and had to fly through my responses cause sum ish fell apart lol

But yea i agreed that ftg has guy at traveling as in op but all thing follwing; i speak on the seprate matter of there being those that dont understand they are seperate topics altogether or rlly think enough to say ftg users can match guy in striking speed or a 1v1.

And as i said by that guy's logic Guy negs troma as with him being hokage why wouldnt start in 7th? Even at 6 he can pop 7th in an instant before a deadly attack connects.

I have in mind him blowing away the water or smashing through it since hes shown great feats against the top suiton user imo lol

Different attack situations true but same opponent and im looking at the striking side not speed scenario. Guy in base didnt need ftg to match obito 1v1...

Tobirama my favorite hokage but he cant neg Bushier brow sensei