Did Sasuke and Madara Cheat When They Used the Tailed Beasts Against Naruto and Hashirama?

[Uchihaa Sasuke]

The short answer is no. They can't be cheating when they're using their main power.

Controlling the Tailed Beasts is the standard power of any given Mangekyou Sharingan. Susano'o, Amaterasu, Tsukoyomi, Kamui, Kotoamatsukami, Kagutsuchi, etc. are all secondary abilities that may or may not come with the Mangekyou. Any Mangekyou user can control the Nine-Tails, but not anyone can use Susano'o, Tsukoyomi, Amaterasu, etc. And it doesn't come for free as well, they pay for it by gradually going blind on top of having to go through a heavy loss to awaken it and can only stabilize it by having another MS user sacrifice their eye for them or just take it from them by force. They already paid the price of that power.

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It's literally why they go blind.

Characters who have mind control abilities can't be considered cheating by using them. And it's not like Naruto had the option of controlling the tailed beasts by force and didn't. He has no such abilities.

Sasuke collecting chakra from the tailed beasts and using it to empower the Susano'o is virtually equivalent to Kurama collecting natural energy external to him from the area to empower Naruto. It also clearly takes a lot of skills and talent for Sasuke to be able to do so.

It's also hypocritical to think that they're cheating for using the tailed beasts and ignore that Naruto was almost entirely dependent on the Nine-Tails' chakra in almost every battle he had to reach victory even though he has his own separate abilities.

 

[Angel90]

Hmm... i dont think it was a cheating, its just another way to obtain power just like sage mode

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Of course not. There are no agreed upon rules like the Chunin exams (kiddy war as per Hurizen's explanation).

 

[Angel90]

I want to add that with mangekyou sharingan you get options to obtain power so I don't think it's cheating

 

[Kooljay]

No. Technically they're considered ninja tools. Naruto brought this us when fighting Kiba in the chuunin exams.

 

[Angel90]

Of course not. There are no agreed upon rules like the Chunin exams (kiddy war as per Hurizen's explanation).

Sasuke controlled Manda with 3tomoe only,why can't Kyuubi be controlled with 3tomoe?

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Sasuke controlled Manda with 3tomoe only,why can't Kyuubi be controlled with 3tomoe?

Madara & Obito did. So I don't see why he couldn't.

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[Angel90]

Madara & Obito did. So I don't see why he couldn't.

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Didn't Tobi had mangekyou sharingan when he controlled Kyuubi?

 

[Infant]

Didn't Tobi had mangekyou sharingan when he controlled Kyuubi?

And a Zetsu boost, while Madara was a transmigrant.

 

[Angel90]

And a Zetsu boost, while Madara was a transmigrant.

Hmm,this is interesting

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Didn't Tobi had mangekyou sharingan when he controlled Kyuubi?

He did but didn't use it.

And a Zetsu boost, while Madara was a transmigrant.

How is either of this relevant?

 

[Angel90]

He did but didn't use it.

That doesnt matter as long as they have it unlocked. And,i just remembered that Konoha was suspecting that Uchiha can control the kyuubi when Tobi attacked the village so i guess mangekyou sharingan isnt needed

 

[Infant]

He did but didn't use it.



How is either of this relevant?

Superior/abnormal energy boosts even among Uchiha.

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Superior/abnormal energy boosts even among Uchiha.

Being a reincarnation didn't boost their power (aside from Rinnegan if acquired).

 

[Infant]

Being a reincarnation didn't boost their power (aside from Rinnegan if acquired).

So how do you explain only those with confirmed abnormal energy having controlled Kurama?

And what are you basing the bold upon?

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

So how do you explain only those with confirmed abnormal energy having controlled Kurama?

As far as we know they are the only Uchiha who attempted to. Not that they're the only ones who could. The stone tablet states it's a standard ability of the Mangekyo.

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And what are you basing the bold upon?

Combining Indra and Ashura's chakra creates Hagoromo's which creates Rinnegan. Their chakra does nothing alone.

 

[Infant]

As far as we know they are the only Uchiha who attempted to. Not that they're the only ones who could

Explain.

The stone tablet states it's a standard ability of the Mangekyo.

Stone tablet . . .

Their chakra does nothing alone

Again . . .

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Explain.

Nevermind. I just remembered it was said only Madara was powerful enough to control Kurama. In order to know that many Uchiha had to have tried.

Stone tablet . . .

Problem?

Again . . .

Nothing suggest otherwise.

 

[Infant]

Nevermind. I just remembered it was said only Madara was powerful enough to control Kurama. In order to know that many Uchiha had to have tried.

This is interesting.

Had I felt more energetic when making my last reply, I would have gone on an enraged rant about how your first two sentences used contradictory foundational logic and probably quit the discussion. But I didn't and I got my first ever concession in this place.

I guess even my sloth has its time and place.

Problem?

Zetsu messed with it so its a poor source for certainty.

Your above concession also directly works against the way you (previously) used the stone tablet point.

Nothing suggest otherwise

"Again", as in you have not defended the foundation, which is what I asked you to do in the previous reply.

Pointing out what the energy does does not satisfy your claim for what it DOES NOT do. You either have to prove that it can only do one thing, such that what you have shown it to do is the only thing it could possibly do, or prove that it cannot do what I specifically claimed/implied it can do.

I was lazy so I spoke minimally.

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

This is interesting.

Had I felt more energetic when making my last reply, I would have gone on an enraged rant about how your first two sentences used contradictory foundational logic and probably quit the discussion. But I didn't and I got my first ever concession in this place.

I was being lazy myself, hence the sloppy performance. Unlike the Itachi thread (which I became passionate about). Skimming around for pages, seeing the great art, story, character interactions, development, abilities, battles, & making connections I never made before - made me like Itachi & Kisame a lot more (therefore the series). Same happened with Minato recently. Looking forward to rereading. Over the years I've under appreciated characters aside my favorite (Sasuke).

What was contradictory? That it's possible only Uchiha with abnormal energy confronted Kurama because no one else believed they could control it?

I guess even my sloth has its time and place.

Patience is a virtue. Sloth is a sin (learned the latter from Fullmetal Alchemist). Turn your sloth into patience. You will get more favorable outcomes.

Zetsu messed with it so its a poor source for certainty.

Good point.

"Again", as in you have not defended the foundation, which is what I asked you to do in the previous reply.

Pointing out what the energy does does not satisfy your claim for what it DOES NOT do. You either have to prove that it can only do one thing, such that what you have shown it to do is the only thing it could possibly do, or prove that it cannot do what I specifically claimed/implied it can do.

I was lazy so I spoke minimally.

If Indra and Ashura's chakra was active then the person would have two chakra sources (or more given Hashirama cells, Kurama, the Curse Mark, & nature energy). Yet no Dojutsu user or sensor mentioned their chakra being active or existing (aside from Naruto). It's just there, doing nothing. Naruto described it to Hagoromo as being haunted by a ghost.