Detailed analysis of hiruzen and hashirama

[TobisPawn]

"There is no shinobi alive today who is as powerful as the First Hokage, Senju Hashirama. In fact, many doubt that his power was ever as strong as legends say. Just like they think the Sage of the Six Paths' power was also a fairy tale." "It's time to show them all they are wrong!"


no it means that no shinobi alive is as strong as hashirama. nothing more nothing less. there is no mention of others being on his level.

Dude, its basic reading comprehension...

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There would be no reason for him to include the "today" part then...

And either way Kabuto's words aren't credible enough seeing that he called himself invincible just a few chapters before.

 

[TheSages456]

Dude, its basic reading comprehension...

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There would be no reason for him to include the "today" part then...

And either way Kabuto's words aren't credible enough seeing that he called himself invincible just a few chapters before.

the difference is that kabutos words about hashirama arent hyperbole.

 

[TobisPawn]

the difference is that kabutos words about hashirama arent hyperbole.

And you know that how? And again, its basic reading comprehension to be able to understand that the VIZ translation implies the exact same thing as the other one.

 

[Waltz]

+rep, good analysis

 

[TheSages456]

And you know that how? And again, its basic reading comprehension to be able to understand that the VIZ translation implies the exact same thing as the other one.

yes there are ninja who were on hashiramas level and above. madara was on his level and rikudo sennin and his sons were above his level so yes there were ninja on hashiramas level and beyond like kabuto supposedly stated.

 

[youralltrolls]

yes there are ninja who were on hashiramas level and above. madara was on his level and rikudo sennin and his sons were above his level so yes there were ninja on hashiramas level and beyond like kabuto supposedly stated.

It said that they're none alive. That doesn't disprove hiruzen wasn't superior to him.

 

[TobisPawn]

yes there are ninja who were on hashiramas level and above. madara was on his level and rikudo sennin and his sons were above his level so yes there were ninja on hashiramas level and beyond like kabuto supposedly stated.

So you agree that there used to be ninja on Hashi's level...and Kabuto's statement still doesn't account for Tobi, Nagato, and Naruto, and all three of them can beat Hashi.

 

[youralltrolls]

So you agree that there used to be ninja on Hashi's level...and Kabuto's statement still doesn't account for Tobi, Nagato, and Naruto, and all three of them can beat Hashi.

I don't think naruto can beat hashi.

 

[TheSages456]

It said that they're none alive. That doesn't disprove hiruzen wasn't superior to him.

no it says that no shinobi alive is as powerful as him. it never said that there were shinobis that were as powerful as him.

So you agree that there used to be ninja on Hashi's level...and Kabuto's statement still doesn't account for Tobi, Nagato, and Naruto, and all three of them can beat Hashi.

ninjas were on his level like madara but none were as powerful as him. edo madaras statement is all i need to clarify that hashirama is stronger than those 3 you mentioned. it looks like tobi will equal kcm naruto in strength so i am 90% sure that hashirama>tobi using his own body.

 

[youralltrolls]

no it says that no shinobi alive is as powerful as him. it never said that there were shinobis that were as powerful as him.


ninjas were on his level like madara but none were as powerful as him. edo madaras statement is all i need to clarify that hashirama is stronger than those 3 you mentioned. it looks like tobi will equal kcm naruto in strength so i am 90% sure that hashirama>tobi using his own body.

Well then the translation still doesn't mean hashirama was better then hiruzen, as hiruzen is not alive.

 

[Myogen]

I don't think Hiruzen was stronger than Tobirama back than. I believe Hiruzen meant that he was the best in team Tobirama aside from Tobirama. He excluded Tobirama like Danzo did, because he didn't even consider the possibility that the Hokage would sacrifice himself. Danzo even calls Tobirama the greatest in the village later in that scene:

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Also Hiruzen never countered the full might of Hashirama's abilities. The Mokuton Edo Hashirama used was on a far smaller scale, no flower tree world at all, Hashirama lacked his scrolls, and he lacked the multiple tailed beast he had under his command.

Plus it's never stated in the manga that Hiruzen was the strongest Hokage, it was only stated that certain people believed he was the strongest. Subtle difference, but belief doesn't always equal reality. For example, some people believed Hashirama's strength was a fairy tale, but this was not reality, his strength was the real deal.

Hashirama > Prime Hiruzen, until Prime Hiruzen is given some more impressive feats by the author or some statements supporting him being the strongest that are not just referencing random people believing he was the strongest.

 

[TobisPawn]

ninjas were on his level like madara but none were as powerful as him. edo madaras statement is all i need to clarify that hashirama is stronger than those 3 you mentioned. it looks like tobi will equal kcm naruto in strength so i am 90% sure that hashirama>tobi using his own body.

For Nagato - Perfect Susanoo's is Madara's best technique, and Hashirama can defeat that. But every single Rinnegan tech in one body is a lot different from that. Nagato > Hashirama in my eyes.

For Naruto - It comes down to whether Hashirama can deal with 15-20 KM clones on top of BM Naruto. Its possible, but know that Hashirama can't completely suppress BM Naruto seeing that BM is Naruto and Kurama's chakra melded together.

For Tobi - You're forgetting that Gedo Mazo is out of it right now. Gedo Mazo alone can deal Hashirama substantial damage if not completely defeat him. On top of that, Naruto has Bee, Kakashi, and Guy backing him up. And Naruto can probably evade Tobi's warping seeing that KM gives him a huge speed boost. Hashirama has no speed feats. Tobi >>> Hashirama. Tobi >> KM Naruto but Kishi's obviously not letting Naruto lose either way.

And btw, Tobi > Edo Madara, but lets not get into that.

 

[TheSages456]

For Nagato - Perfect Susanoo's is Madara's best technique, and Hashirama can defeat that. But every single Rinnegan tech in one body is a lot different from that. Nagato > Hashirama in my eyes.

For Naruto - It comes down to whether Hashirama can deal with 15-20 KM clones on top of BM Naruto. Its possible, but know that Hashirama can't completely suppress BM Naruto seeing that BM is Naruto and Kurama's chakra melded together.

For Tobi - You're forgetting that Gedo Mazo is out of it right now. Gedo Mazo alone can deal Hashirama substantial damage if not completely defeat him. On top of that, Naruto has Bee, Kakashi, and Guy backing him up. And Naruto can probably evade Tobi's warping seeing that KM gives him a huge speed boost. Hashirama has no speed feats. Tobi >>> Hashirama. Tobi >> KM Naruto but Kishi's obviously not letting Naruto lose either way.

And btw, Tobi > Edo Madara, but lets not get into that.

hashirama and madara have the whole eyes and body thing going on and kishi kinda made it clear that characters with those traits are the strongest. hashirama>nagato unless you think nagato can take on perfect susano and the kyuubi. oh wait nagato would just fly around the map, 1-shot kurama with shinra tensei and and fly around perfect susano like a dbz character and absorb it instantly.

i already explained BM narutos strength so im not gettng into that.

naruto isnt getting help. kishi said it would be a 1 on 1 battle. hashirama>tobi=kcm naruto. we will find out in a few hours.

edo madara>tobi that equals kcm naruto but lets not get into that

 

[TobisPawn]

hashirama and madara have the whole eyes and body thing going on and kishi kinda made it clear that characters with those traits are the strongest. hashirama>nagato unless you think nagato can take on perfect susano and the kyuubi. oh wait nagato would just fly around the map, 1-shot kurama with shinra tensei and and fly around perfect susano like a dbz character and absorb it instantly.

Nagato has both the eyes and the body...and Hashirama has no way of beating Nagato. And Nagato can beat EMS Madara too. But that's a little off topic, lol.

i already explained BM narutos strength so im not gettng into that.

Alright then.

naruto isnt getting help. kishi said it would be a 1 on 1 battle. hashirama>tobi=kcm naruto. we will find out in a few hours.

We'll see tomorrow. But I honestly doubt that Bee, Kakashi, and Guy will just sit their chilling. And you're forgetting that Gedo Mazo's restricted and that Naruto would have already lost without help. Tobi = KCM Naruto is a baseless assumption. Besides, if Gedo Mazo isn't too busy having a mental breakdown it'd be able to solo KCM Naruto quite easily.

edo madara>tobi that equals kcm naruto but lets not get into that

Tobi = KCM Naruto is a terrible and baseless assumption. On top of that, you forget that Gedo Mazo's out of it right now. It'd have no trouble dealing with Naruto. And Tobi > Edo Madara for sure, but yeah lets avoid this. You're using bad logic anyway because Naruto has the speed to counter Tobi's S/T techs (like Minato) but Madara doesn't.

 

[youralltrolls]

hashirama and madara have the whole eyes and body thing going on and kishi kinda made it clear that characters with those traits are the strongest. hashirama>nagato unless you think nagato can take on perfect susano and the kyuubi. oh wait nagato would just fly around the map, 1-shot kurama with shinra tensei and and fly around perfect susano like a dbz character and absorb it instantly.

i already explained BM narutos strength so im not gettng into that.

naruto isnt getting help. kishi said it would be a 1 on 1 battle. hashirama>tobi=kcm naruto. we will find out in a few hours.

edo madara>tobi that equals kcm naruto but lets not get into that

A>B B>C so A>C logic does not work in naruto. Also Nagato is fully capable of beating hashirama since he can absorb all ninjutsu thus making his wood release pointless.

 

[TobisPawn]

A>B B>C so A>C logic does not work in naruto. Also Nagato is fully capable of beating hashirama since he can absorb all ninjutsu thus making his wood release pointless.

Be warned...people will start claiming that he can't absorb it. >.>

 

[KamuiShiryu]

I don't think Hiruzen was stronger than Tobirama back than. I believe Hiruzen meant that he was the best in team Tobirama aside from Tobirama. He excluded Tobirama like Danzo did, because he didn't even consider the possibility that the Hokage would sacrifice himself. Danzo even calls Tobirama the greatest in the village later in that scene:

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Also Hiruzen never countered the full might of Hashirama's abilities. The Mokuton Edo Hashirama used was on a far smaller scale, no flower tree world at all, Hashirama lacked his scrolls, and he lacked the multiple tailed beast he had under his command.

Plus it's never stated in the manga that Hiruzen was the strongest Hokage, it was only stated that certain people believed he was the strongest. Subtle difference, but belief doesn't always equal reality. For example, some people believed Hashirama's strength was a fairy tale, but this was not reality, his strength was the real deal.

Hashirama > Prime Hiruzen, until Prime Hiruzen is given some more impressive feats by the author or some statements supporting him being the strongest that are not just referencing random people believing he was the strongest.

1. i agree with you here tobirama was stronger then hiruzen at that point......

2. he lacked tailed beast because there are no more tailed beast to control "all inside someone" so that doesn't really matter anymore reason why he doesn't have flower tree world when fighting him was because kishi didn't know the 1st was goign to be an important in part 2 if he were to remaster the fight between them in part 2 he would power up both the 3rd and i'm also guessing the 2nd. but yet in the end it would end up the same way.......

3. thats still alot of hype from people like oroc. and kabuto....... plus more

4. yes cus taking on both the first and second isn't an impressive feat??? lets not forgot he would have killed them if they weren't edo with the tags he placed on them... keeping peace for how many years in the village isn't that big of a deal neither i guess.....