[VS] Deidara vs. Kakuzu

[Icelerate]

Am I arguing with a 12 year old?

Pot calling the kettle black.

 

[EZQ]

As for this match up, Deidara wins.

-C3 one shots if it gets off.
-Kakuzu nor his masks can dodge C2 as it pressured Sasuke, so until he realizes that Raiton will counter them any masks that he happens to release get blown to shit, or he himself takes damage from C2, but I don't think it'll be anything serious.
-C4 kills him if he doesn't realize the end. People say Kakuzu not needing to breathe is a counter, but him not needing to breathe doesn't change the fact that he does, so it'll slip through his mouth or nose and end him from the inside out.

Sasuke only found out because Raiton is a staple in his moveset and the fact he has multiple ways to use it makes it more likely for him to figure out that Raiton defuses Deidara's bombs. Kakuzu has no such luxury. Even if he did, C3 would still kill him as it can just be detonated before Kakuzu's Raiton hits it.

Underrating Kakuzu's experience there. He's 91 years old. He obviously knows deidara's seals are earth kind.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Can go either way.

If Deidara is capable of setting up C3, C4, or get a couple of hits with C2 he would win.
If Kakuzu plays his cards right with Raiton, Futon, and Jingou usage he could win also.

 

[KidGamer65]

Underrating Kakuzu's experience there. He's 91 years old. He obviously knows deidara's seals are earth kind.

Lmao. 91 years old cop out argument isn't an argument. It's just a cop out. A weak one at that. How does his experience have anything to do with him and Deidara's seals? Sure, if he saw them he'd know that they are earth based seals, but good luck being able to get a good enough look at his seals when Kakuzu will be on the ground while Deidara is in the sky. He has zero reason to be paying attention to his seals anyway. Sasuke has Sharingan which would capture every single hand sign no matter how fast it's made as long as Sasuke can see it. Kakuzu doesn't.


And it's nonsense to assert that he'll automatically know that Raiton>Doton without any kind of trial and error. Pure nonsense.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

I would have thought it would actually be common sense, for at least, a Jonin level (even maybe Chunin) to have basic knowledge on elements strengths and weaknesses... Seen through out part 2 series...

 

[KidGamer65]

I would have thought it would actually be common sense, for at least, a Jonin level (even maybe Chunin) to have basic knowledge on elements strengths and weaknesses... Seen through out part 2 series...

Hmm. Good observation Captain Obvious. Now tell the class how that changes anything stated here.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Hmm. Good observation Captain Obvious. Now tell the class how that changes anything stated here.

My fault by just reading the conclusion without context. You were implying specifically Deidara's clay style wouldn't automatically mean, or know, that everyone knows its fits Earth Style Category correct?

 

[KidGamer65]

My fault by just reading the conclusion without context. You were implying specifically Deidara's clay style wouldn't automatically mean, or know, that everyone knows its fits Earth Style Category correct?

Lmao yes I was just talking about Deidara's bombs.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Lmao yes I was just talking about Deidara's bombs.

I agree with that, but I disagree that Kakuzu wouldn't experiment that straight off the bat.

1. Shouldn't it be basic knowledge that Kakuzu knows Deidara is from the Earth Village. Kakuzu should know at least that each villages would normally carry the affinity to the country they were born in. Correct?

2.) Being a master elemental user wouldnt he know the priorities each element are capable of? Here is a description on Earth Nature describe in the DB3:

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I feel like it should be fair to say so. I dont think seeing hand seals would be needed

 

[KidGamer65]

I agree with that, but I disagree that Kakuzu wouldn't experiment that straight off the bat.

1. Shouldn't it be basic knowledge that Kakuzu knows Deidara is from the Earth Village. Kakuzu should know at least that each villages would normally carry the affinity to the country they were born in. Correct?

2.) Being a master elemental user wouldnt he know the priorities each element are capable of? Here is a description on Earth Nature describe in the DB3:

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I feel like it should be fair to say so. I dont think seeing hand seals would be needed

1. Being from the Earth Village doesn't mean you use Earth Jutsu and Deidara's bombs don't share any significant similarities with Earth Ninjutsu that'd cause Kakuzu to try and test Raiton vs. His bombs. Sasuke's analytical skills take a dump on Kakuzu's and Deidara's headband displays his place of origin yet Sasuke needed to see hand signs to even begin thinking about Raiton being able to counter his Doton.

2. That has nothing to do with what Deidara does with his clay. He isn't increasing the solidity or composition of something. He's simply molding structures from his clay. Again, why would this be enough for Kakuzu if Sasuke needed hand signs to begin formulating this theory?

 

[Brother Numpsay]

1. Being from the Earth Village doesn't mean you use Earth Jutsu and Deidara's bombs don't share any significant similarities with Earth Ninjutsu that'd cause Kakuzu to try and test Raiton vs. His bombs. Sasuke's analytical skills take a dump on Kakuzu's and Deidara's headband displays his place of origin yet Sasuke needed to see hand signs to even begin thinking about Raiton being able to counter his Doton.

It does not automatically mean it, but it is still a good assertion to try first no? Deidara actual clay do share a significant similarity to Earth ninjutsu base on the DB description stating about what it can do in its nature via "clay more pliable". Which in a sense Earth style not only just works by the hardness you can make it, but softness or pliable too.

@Bold, you dont you think that statement is a bit far fetch, considering DB making it clear one whos superior intelligence wise. Despite having little screen time, he proven he can actually one up Shikimaru in his tactics and actually gives a speech about it, should tell you that it shouldnt be a fair statement.

2. That has nothing to do with what Deidara does with his clay. He isn't increasing the solidity or composition of something. He's simply molding structures from his clay. Again, why would this be enough for Kakuzu if Sasuke needed hand signs to begin formulating this theory?[

@Bold why doesn't it fit "composting" nature? Which make it either unbreakable nature or his "clay more pliable"? I dont understand. @Underline I do not hold any position of Sasuke being superior in analytical skills to begin with

 

[KidGamer65]

It does not automatically mean it, but it is still a good assertion to try first no? Deidara actual clay do share a significant similarity to Earth ninjutsu base on the DB description stating "clay more pliable". Which in a sense Earth style not only just works by the hardness you can make it, but softness or pliable too.

No, the DB says that Earth Release can be used to make clay more pliable. Using clay and being able to change how hard it is and all that are two completely different things.

@Bold, you dont you think that statement is a bit far fetch, considering DB making it clear one whos superior intelligence wise. Despite having little screen time, he proven he can actually one up Shikimaru in his tactics and actually gives a speech about it should tell you thats not a fair statement.

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Higher IQ doesn't translate to analytical ability. Sasuke has better feats in this regard and he has the backing of Madara, who praised him and said he'd used Sasuke as a pawn instead of Obito had he been born based on his analytical skills and choku tomoe sharingan.

And how did he one up Shikamaru?

@Bold why doesn't it fit "composting" nature? Which make it either unbreakable nature or his "clay more pliable"? I dont understand. @Underline I do not hold any position of Sasuke being superior in analytical skills.

All that entry talks about is the ability to alter the composition and solidity of a jutsu. Deidara doesn't do anything close to that. The only relation his abilities has to that specific passage is that clay is mentioned in both. :lol

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Being from the Earth Village doesn't mean you use Earth Jutsu

You missed a statement I made: "It does not automatically mean it, but it is still a good assertion (for at least Kakuzu) to try first no?"

No, the DB says that Earth Release can be used to make clay more pliable. Using clay and being able to change how hard it is and all that are two completely different things.

Composition: the nature of something's ingredients or constituents; the way in which a whole or mixture is made up.

Pliable: 1.) easily influenced. 2.) easily bent; flexible.

Based on their definition, isnt that something Deidara do with his clay as the medium?

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Higher IQ doesn't translate to analytical ability. Sasuke has better feats in this regard and he has the backing of Madara, who praised him and said he'd used Sasuke as a pawn instead of Obito had he been born based on his analytical skills and choku tomoe sharingan.

And how did he one up Shikamaru?

@Bold does it not for Shikamaru? Both Sasuke and Madara's backing only have relevance to me if they are superior in Shikamaru in that category.

@Underline[

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]

All that entry talks about is the ability to alter the composition and solidity of a jutsu. Deidara doesn't do anything close to that. The only relation his abilities has to that specific passage is that clay is mentioned in both. :lol

From the dictionary I read, I fail to see why it isnt.

 

[KidGamer65]

You missed a statement I made: "It does not automatically mean it, but it is still a good assertion (for at least Kakuzu) to try first no?"

I didn't miss it. There's no reason why he'd go for Raiton first because your argument doesn't hold.

Composition: the nature of something's ingredients or constituents; the way in which a whole or mixture is made up.

Pliable: 1.) easily influenced. 2.) easily bent; flexible.

Based on their definition, isnt that something Deidara do with his clay as the medium?

Is Deidara altering the composition or solidity or pliability of his clay when he uses his explosive jutsu? No. He's not. He takes the clay, makes a bomb and then drops it. There is nothing else going there.

@Bold does it not to Shikamaru? Both Sasuke and Madara's backing only have relevance to me if they are superior in Shikamaru in that category.

@Underline[

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]

Shikamaru's analytical ability is high simply because his analytical ability is high. IQ and analytical skills aren't the same thing.

And that scan doesn't tell me a thing. What's even worse for your argument is that I actually decided to go back and read the chapter, and Kakuzu didn't one up Shikamaru when it comes to analytical skill or plan making or anything of that nature so your argument doesn't even make sense. He foiled Shikamaru's plan because he was able to release his arm into the ground while the smoke was hiding his body, not because he was smarter. Not even sure how you came to that conclusion in the first place. If Shikamaru makes a plan to defeat, and Naruto uses one of his abilities to stop said plan from working does that now mean that Naruto>Shikamaru in intelligence or that he has some kind of noteworthy analytical skill? No. It doesn't.

And that speech is about how Shikamaru is smart, and that not everything will go according to plan if you just analyze. Says nothing about him outsmarting Shikamaru.

So yeah. You can drop this argument now.

From the dictionary I read, I fail to see why it isnt.

Does Deidara alter the composition of his clay? No. It's all the same. Does he change the solidity of his clay? No. Only the size of his clay changes. Not how hard it is and not the details of what it's made of. So you don't have a point at all.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Is Deidara altering the composition or solidity or pliability of his clay when he uses his explosive jutsu?

No. But modeling his clay, yes.

Shikamaru's analytical ability is high simply because his analytical ability is high. IQ and analytical skills aren't the same thing.

[

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] I believe it goes hand to hand.

And that scan doesn't tell me a thing. What's even worse for your argument is that I actually decided to go back and read the chapter, and Kakuzu didn't one up Shikamaru when it comes to analytical skill or plan making or anything of that nature so your argument doesn't even make sense. He foiled Shikamaru's plan because he was able to release his arm into the ground while the smoke was hiding his body, not because he was smarter. Not even sure how you came to that conclusion in the first place. If Shikamaru makes a plan to defeat, and Naruto uses one of his abilities to stop said plan from working does that now mean that Naruto>Shikamaru in intelligence or that he has some kind of noteworthy analytical skill? No. It doesn't.

Never implied Kakuzu was superior here btw. Countering someones tactic most definitely means they one up the opponent. Did Shikimaru not explain his plan on how he capture them( chapter 332), yet alone out smart the Zombie Duo?

And that speech is about how Shikamaru is smart, and that not everything will go according to plan if you just analyze. Says nothing about him outsmarting Shikamaru.

The speech was not implying that I think he is smarter then Shikimaru. Its the very fact that he share/gave advice to Shikamaru in his own field should imply that he is as skillful

Does Deidara alter the composition of his clay? No. It's all the same.

Cut off the irrelevant part.

As for this quote, thats not all true. He infact does composite the clay. It changes its nature by shape mixing by chakra that explodes. Which is in fact the definition of composition.

Just as SA Earth users made their vomit change into a solid earth wall

 

[ToshiZO]

Nah Kakuzu is pretty analytical. He quickly broke down

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, and he actually countered it despite it being a complete ambush. Him sending his threads underground was quick thinking.

Not only is he pretty smart, he has tons of battle experience. If someone can figure out Deidara's weakness it would be him.

 

[KidGamer65]

No. But modeling his clay, yes.

No, he's not.

[

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] I believe it goes hand to hand.

IQ helps. That doesn't make them the same thing.

Never implied Kakuzu was superior here btw. Countering someones tactic most definitely means they one up the opponent. Did Shikimaru not explain his plan on how he capture them( chapter 332), yet alone out smart the Zombie Duo?

That doesn't mean that he one upped him with his own analytical ability so mentioning this is irrelevant in a debate about Kakuzu's analytical ability. :lol

The speech was not implying that I think he is smarter then Shikimaru. Its the very fact that he share/gave advice to Shikamaru in his own field should imply that he is as skillful

Lmao. I hope you are joking. He told Shikamaru that spending the entire battle analyzing won't mean that things will go according to plan. That's battle advice. That's not advice that imply Kakuzu is as skillful in the area nor does he have the feats to claim that so please don't even try it.

Cut off the irrelevant part.

As for this quote, thats not all true. He infact does composite the clay. It changes its nature by shape mixing by chakra that explodes. Which is in fact the definition of composition.

Just as SA Earth users made their vomit change into a solid earth wall

Lol. You have to be kidding me. The SA shinobi changed their liquid-esque vomit doton into a solid earth wall. That's changing composition and solidity. Deidara only takes clay and changes it's physical shape. That's not changing how hard it is. That's not changing the type of material it is. Again, you make no sense here. Composition is the nature of what something is made of. Deidara's clay is clay and always remains clay. The only thing that changes shape, and changing shape isn't changing composition. :lol Dafuq?

If I change the shape of a rock by smashing it am I changing what it's made of? No.

Nah Kakuzu is pretty analytical. He quickly broke down

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, and he actually countered it despite it being a complete ambush. Him sending his threads underground was quick thinking.

Not only is he pretty smart, he has tons of battle experience. If someone can figure out Deidara's weakness it would be him.

Lmao yeah. He broke it down after it happened. :lol Besides, the debate here isn't whether or not he's analytical because he clearly is. The debate is whether or not he's superior to Sasuke. Eventually he'll figure it out, no one is denying that. But implying he figures it out right from the jump without the tools Sasuke had is ridiculous and that's what I'm telling this guy.

 

[ToshiZO]

He won't figure it out right away, but he'll figure it out before the bigger bombs can get the best of him imo.

 

[KidGamer65]

He won't figure it out right away, but he'll figure it out before the bigger bombs can get the best of him imo.

If Deidara starts off with C1 then yeah, he'll probably figure it out either before or during the beginning stages of Deidara's C2 spam. But I don't see him bothering with C1 against him considering him and Hidan are known to be the "immortal" members of the Akatsuki.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Lmao yeah. He broke it down after it happened. :lol Besides, the debate here isn't whether or not he's analytical because he clearly is. The debate is whether or not he's superior to Sasuke. Eventually he'll figure it out, no one is denying that. But implying he figures it out right from the jump without the tools Sasuke had is ridiculous and that's what I'm telling this guy.

Then we drag this debate for no reason then lol