Mr Hiru
Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
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This discussion thread is not a theory at all. It contains sensible data based on manga facts. It suggests that Madara never controlled Obito.
This said, let's begin.
---
I was re-watching the manga, and I found something
This phrase was quite interesting, told by the masked man himself, who mischievously called himself "Madara". It was told in a very advanced moment in the part 2 of the manga. A lot of time passed since Obito met Madara for first time. I was shocked for the amount of information this single phrase could contain.
What stroke me in this phrase was the fact that this Madara genuinely relied on other's efforts to get the bijuu. The other interesting thing (and most important) is that Madara told this to his right hand, the one who "supposedly" had his same will, the Zetsu/Black Zetsu (we know that chapter 681
--- So, let's play with "cases" to analyze the scene.
a) The current masked man is Madara himself:
Impossible. Madara himself would never rely in other's help to capture the bijuu. Furthermore, he did it himself in the war, without any help, with only one Rinnegan.
b) The current masked man is Obito controlled by Spiral Zetsu:
Not at all. Tobi's persona isn't active in this chapter, and anime's dub is proof of this.
c) The current masked man is Obito controlled by Madara (Tobidara's theory reasoning).
d) The masked man is Obito:
No space for doubt. From the four possibilities, this is the only one that makes sense. Obito was the mastermind of Akatsuki, but he was being decieved all the way by Zetsu/Black Zetsu (the mastermind behind all the plot of Madara's Revival and Kaguya's Revival).
---
If we take c) in account, then Tobidara's reveal is for naught. It is because Tobidara's theory implies two basic suppositions:
a) Madara created Black Zetsu / Zetsu / White Zetsu / Guruguru
b) Obito is controlled by Madara himself, or one of his creations (Zetsus)
If this were the truth, Madara could just have found his dead body with his minions (since he supposedly created and controls them), and then Controlled Obito would have to convince Nagato to revive Madara with the Rinne Tensei.
...it would make sense, if it were not by three details.
Detail #1: If a) and b) were true, Madara could have been revived even before the start of part 2, and part 2 would not even exist. Ergo, what this Madara said in chapter 404 to his own minions does not make any sense as the original Madara.
Detail #2:
Detail #3: The
---
This said, from chapter 404 and after, the Tobidara reveal became a complete impossibility.
This said, let's begin.
---
I was re-watching the manga, and I found something
You must be registered for see links
...This phrase was quite interesting, told by the masked man himself, who mischievously called himself "Madara". It was told in a very advanced moment in the part 2 of the manga. A lot of time passed since Obito met Madara for first time. I was shocked for the amount of information this single phrase could contain.
What stroke me in this phrase was the fact that this Madara genuinely relied on other's efforts to get the bijuu. The other interesting thing (and most important) is that Madara told this to his right hand, the one who "supposedly" had his same will, the Zetsu/Black Zetsu (we know that chapter 681
You must be registered for see links
, but I'm speaking contextually: Both Madara and Obito never knew about this), ergo, this Madara doesn't have a reason to lie with this statement.--- So, let's play with "cases" to analyze the scene.
a) The current masked man is Madara himself:
Impossible. Madara himself would never rely in other's help to capture the bijuu. Furthermore, he did it himself in the war, without any help, with only one Rinnegan.
b) The current masked man is Obito controlled by Spiral Zetsu:
Not at all. Tobi's persona isn't active in this chapter, and anime's dub is proof of this.
c) The current masked man is Obito controlled by Madara (Tobidara's theory reasoning).
d) The masked man is Obito:
No space for doubt. From the four possibilities, this is the only one that makes sense. Obito was the mastermind of Akatsuki, but he was being decieved all the way by Zetsu/Black Zetsu (the mastermind behind all the plot of Madara's Revival and Kaguya's Revival).
---
If we take c) in account, then Tobidara's reveal is for naught. It is because Tobidara's theory implies two basic suppositions:
a) Madara created Black Zetsu / Zetsu / White Zetsu / Guruguru
b) Obito is controlled by Madara himself, or one of his creations (Zetsus)
If this were the truth, Madara could just have found his dead body with his minions (since he supposedly created and controls them), and then Controlled Obito would have to convince Nagato to revive Madara with the Rinne Tensei.
...it would make sense, if it were not by three details.
Detail #1: If a) and b) were true, Madara could have been revived even before the start of part 2, and part 2 would not even exist. Ergo, what this Madara said in chapter 404 to his own minions does not make any sense as the original Madara.
Detail #2:
You must be registered for see links
, ergo, it is impossible that Madara knew about the location of his dead body, or that Madara controlled Obito though the Zetsus.Detail #3: The
You must be registered for see links
can't be used for mind control. It only can restraint/control movements.---
This said, from chapter 404 and after, the Tobidara reveal became a complete impossibility.
