That is not how base is considered for rasengan, but if you want to go that way, sasuke used kyuubi chakra to use chidori.
He fell asleep because they had been fighting the war for so long. He was already low on chakra to begin with.
Nobody falls asleep because of a tiny rasengan.
This also wrong, the bijuus run out of chakra all the time but they don't die.
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It has a limited range, cannot be used to escape long range attacks.
Again limited range, and would achieve nothing, they would just have positions reversed and still be a little distance away from the center.
You are coming up so many alternative way in which fight would have gone, yet you seem to forget that Naruto had no intention of even fighting.
He did not make any sort of plan or strategy to try and kill him like he did with the in the previous war arc fights. He only kept neutralizing sasuke's attacks. If even after taking in massive temporary chakra from 9 bijuus sasuke failed to kill Naruto then its already clear who is the superior one.
So far the only Naruto fan I can take seriously in this thread
@Bold: Hey, I was just arguing that it wasn't a base rasengan vs Amaterasu Chidori. As long as you can acknowledge that, we are good.
@Italicized: Sorry to be splitting hairs here, but what exactly does that prove? The 8tails said he is ALMOST out of chakra. Not completely out.
@Rest: You are acting like Sasuke needs to Amenotejikara across the whole continent just to escape the 2 rasengans. If you are worried about Sasuke still getting caught up in the explosion of the two Rasengans, assuming he wasn't able to get away from the explosion (which he should be able to (Amenotejikara and his footspeed/shushin)) then he can hide himself in his Bijuu Susanoo
I like both Naruto and Sasuke so don't think I'm siding against you but that's really what it seems like.
VOTE 2 In my honest opinion was a loss for Sasuke. His ideology was destroyed by Naruto's will and that counts as a win too. Not to mention they physically tied at a Kill Vs Do enough not to lose mindset.
The range is quite small. The AoE of frs is quite big.
If you are worried about Sasuke still getting caught up in the explosion of the two Rasengans, assuming he wasn't able to get away from the explosion (which he should be able to (Amenotejikara and his footspeed/shushin)) then he can hide himself in his Bijuu Susanoo
I like both Naruto and Sasuke so don't think I'm siding against you but that's really what it seems like.
VOTE 2 In my honest opinion was a loss for Sasuke. His ideology was destroyed by Naruto's will and that counts as a win too. Not to mention they physically tied at a Kill Vs Do enough not to lose mindset.
Mate, anywhere in my posts/op did I ever say that Sasuke > Naruto? Nope. It was a tie. The mindset doesn't mean shit. Naruto had the same mindset as he did in VOTE1. "I am going to do whatever it takes to bring you back," that isn't killing. Meaning he would break every bone in his body... but won't kill him. What I am getting from your post is that Naruto didn't want to win, he just didn't want to lose. Nope.
Honestly, I have no clue what he is arguing about at this point. We have said the same thing to him over and over again. I guess he just can't comprehend simple things.
People still think Naruto won the fight? sure Sasuke lost in ideals but that does not mean that Naruto won the fight.
and They still claim that Naruto wasn't serious?
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"so you've finally gotten serious?"
Sasuke states here that Naruto is giving it his all from that point on and I'm sure as hell he wasn't pulling any punches in the taijutsu fight heck the guy intended to use rasengan on sasuke directly (and he didn't know sasuke can absorb jutsu back then).
Claim 1) Sasuke lost VOTE2: Honestly, I am not sure people are actually serious or are just trolling. But I am going to debunk this stupid claim regardless. Support: The only support Naruto fans have for this claim is this picture:
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Debunked: This post can be debunked rather easily.
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What Naruto said here claims that neither Sasuke nor Naruto lost. Also, if Sasuke really did lose, would both Naruto and Sasuke be near dead at the end of the battle?
The moral reason as to why people state that he lost, is because Sasuke indeed believes that he lost the battle. Whether or not they could of died at that moment in time, Sasuke would of died understanding that he indeed lost this FIGHT. The physical battle drawed out to both of them losing an arm, and being unable to move. Sasuke fainted, while Naruto stayed awake, and then they both fell asleep. In my eyes I see this as nothing but a WIN. Ideals, physical, mental, etc., Doesn't matter to me when the opposite character from the fight admits that he indeed, truly, and without a doubt felt like he lost the battle. Sasuke put so much effort into stopping Naruto - And Naruto in return put so much effort into stopping him. So I'm going YOU this time.
Claim 2) Naruto stalemated Sasuke's Amaterasu Chidori with a base rasengan: Okay. People who claim this (and claim 1) honest to god have the worst reading comprehension I have ever seen. Like honestly do you people just read/see what you want to see, and not what is actually being shown/written? Support: Their only support is the fact that Naruto's Rasengan LOOKED like a base Rasengan Debunked:
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If you would actually read, you will see that was not a base Rasengan. Not even close. That was a Kyuubi powered Rasengan. So much Kyuubi chakra was put into the Rasengan, that the Nine Tails fell asleep after it.
Naruto and Sasuke after the Indra Arrow and the TBBFRS and TBBBRS stalemate were already tired at it. Before Sasuke drained the Kyuubi's chakra, both him and Naruto were alread physically drained to the point of not being able to
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Sasuke then
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and formed a chidori, which Naruto countered with a physical uppercut. Afterwards, the Kyuubi himself states that SASUKE would have realized his chakra is limited, which is why Sasuke pumped the last bits of the Kyuubi's chakra into his
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. Which Naruto countered it with the last remaining amounts of chakra the Kyuubi had after he had depleted his chakra over the vast war, battles, and enemies they fought in the last week. So yes, Naruto stalemated Sasuke who was also using Kyuubi's chakra, with a mere Rasengan created from the TB's chakra too.
Claim 3) Sasuke used all of the Bijuus power to use Indra's arrow: Its a reasonable assumption Support: It's just a Sasuke thing to do. Why would he not go all out and use all of the Bijuus Chakra? Debunked: This cannot be true however. The Bijuus are made entirely of Chakra. If Sasuke where to use all of their Chakra, their entire essence would be diminished. But it wasn't. Now how much of the Chakra Sasuke used is purely speculation. Nobody can be right on that question.
Sasuke used enough chakra. I don't know why people argue about this nonsense anyway, and I agree. If he used all of it, obviously they would have fell asleep, but he had Nine Tailed Beasts under his disposal, meaning that he had way more than enough to share evenly and take their chakra.
Claim 4) If it wasn't for Indra's arrow, Sasuke would be dead: Also a reasonable assumption. Support: Sasuke needed Indra's arrow to stalemate two of Naruto's most powerful attacks
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Debunked: It is this simple. Sasuke didn't need to clash. He is fast enough (Shushin/Amenotejikara) to have gotten his ass out of their if needed. With Sasuke's rinnegan eye, he could have also swapped switched Naruto his position (like how he did here:
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) and put Naruto in the crossfire of his own attack.
No. It is canonically proven that Sasuke's Amenotejikara has a cool-down between two and three uses. Sasuke already used it after a fireball setup, and then he used it the second time after creating the Bijuu PS. Naruto only created the TBBFRS and TBBBRS with Natural Energy and his chakra after Sasuke began to charge his Indra Arrow.
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Naruto would of never sent an attack like that onto Sasuke if he did not send it first, that is not how Naruto finishes off his opponent, especially one like Sasuke. That's how the whole fight played out, Naruto waited for Sasuke to move, and then Naruto countered. Until base of course when Naruto took charge after Kishimoto stopped letting him play the mouse in the cat game. If Sasuke never took the Bijuu Chakra and Naruto had the Ashura Avatar, he would only have to wait until his eye power weakened. Naruto canonically was able to tell when Sasuke's eye powers
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So all it would take for the battle to finish is Naruto drawing out Sasuke to use his Rinnegan further and then he would finish it with the TBBFRS.
Claim 5) Sasuke fought a war exhausted Naruto: Honestly one of my favorite claims to debunk Support: It looks like Naruto did more Debunked: This claim is nothing but speculation. First off, Naruto showed no level of exhaustion before the fight between him and Sasuke began. Even reaching VOTE at the same time of Sasuke. Now who are you to say that Naruto did more? Naruto has a shit ton of Chakra. It is generally accepted that Naruto has a SHIT ton more chakra than Sasuke. How do you know that Sasuke wasn't at the same level of RELATIVE (key word) Chakra exhaustion (doubt they where even exhausted in the first place) as Naruto? Let me use an example if this is to hard to comprehend. Lets say, Naruto has a total of 100,000 "chakra points" and Sasuke has a total of 50,000 "chakra points." Lets say by the end of the war, when Naruto was about to fight Sasuke, his chakra point total was now only 50,000. Lets say sasukes was only 25,000 before the fight. It looks like Naruto did more in the war, because his chakra point total went down by 50,000, while Sasukes only went down by 25,000. However they both did equal amount of work, cause both their chakra point total went down by half. Sorry if this is to much math, and is hard to understand. Private message me, or just tell me now, and I will try to explain this in a different way.
Honestly is this one worth countering? I'm going to be frank:
Naruto did way more than Sasuke in the war. Hell, without Naruto stepping in and stopping all the White Zetsu's in the war, Sasuke would have had no army to stand with when he brought the Edo-Tensei's. But - Both of them were recharged by Hagoromo, so this doesn't even matter. Kurama states the obvious
Key: Claim: This is the claim made by Naruto fans Support: This is how Naruto fans usually back this claim up Debunked: This is how I go about debunking said claim
SHOW: A picture/link used to debunk or support a claim
Now, lets begin...
Claim 1) Sasuke lost VOTE2: Honestly, I am not sure people are actually serious or are just trolling. But I am going to debunk this stupid claim regardless. Support: The only support Naruto fans have for this claim is this picture:
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Debunked: This post can be debunked rather easily.
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What Naruto said here claims that neither Sasuke nor Naruto lost. Also, if Sasuke really did lose, would both Naruto and Sasuke be near dead at the end of the battle?
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It was a tie.
Claim 2) Naruto stalemated Sasuke's Amaterasu Chidori with a base rasengan: Okay. People who claim this (and claim 1) honest to god have the worst reading comprehension I have ever seen. Like honestly do you people just read/see what you want to see, and not what is actually being shown/written? Support: Their only support is the fact that Naruto's Rasengan LOOKED like a base Rasengan Debunked:
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If you would actually read, you will see that was not a base Rasengan. Not even close. That was a Kyuubi powered Rasengan. So much Kyuubi chakra was put into the Rasengan, that the Nine Tails fell asleep after it.
Claim 3) Sasuke used all of the Bijuus power to use Indra's arrow: Its a reasonable assumption Support: It's just a Sasuke thing to do. Why would he not go all out and use all of the Bijuus Chakra? Debunked: This cannot be true however. The Bijuus are made entirely of Chakra. If Sasuke where to use all of their Chakra, their entire essence would be diminished. But it wasn't. Now how much of the Chakra Sasuke used is purely speculation. Nobody can be right on that question.
Claim 4) If it wasn't for Indra's arrow, Sasuke would be dead: Also a reasonable assumption. Support: Sasuke needed Indra's arrow to stalemate two of Naruto's most powerful attacks
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Debunked: It is this simple. Sasuke didn't need to clash. He is fast enough (Shushin/Amenotejikara) to have gotten his ass out of their if needed. With Sasuke's rinnegan eye, he could have also swapped switched Naruto his position (like how he did here:
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) and put Naruto in the crossfire of his own attack.
Claim 5) Sasuke fought a war exhausted Naruto: Honestly one of my favorite claims to debunk Support: It looks like Naruto did more Debunked: This claim is nothing but speculation. First off, Naruto showed no level of exhaustion before the fight between him and Sasuke began. Even reaching VOTE at the same time of Sasuke. Now who are you to say that Naruto did more? Naruto has a shit ton of Chakra. It is generally accepted that Naruto has a SHIT ton more chakra than Sasuke. How do you know that Sasuke wasn't at the same level of RELATIVE (key word) Chakra exhaustion (doubt they where even exhausted in the first place) as Naruto? Let me use an example if this is to hard to comprehend. Lets say, Naruto has a total of 100,000 "chakra points" and Sasuke has a total of 50,000 "chakra points." Lets say by the end of the war, when Naruto was about to fight Sasuke, his chakra point total was now only 50,000. Lets say sasukes was only 25,000 before the fight. It looks like Naruto did more in the war, because his chakra point total went down by 50,000, while Sasukes only went down by 25,000. However they both did equal amount of work, cause both their chakra point total went down by half. Sorry if this is to much math, and is hard to understand. Private message me, or just tell me now, and I will try to explain this in a different way.
Here are 5 claims commonly thrown around by certain Naruto fans in support of Naruto over Sasuke. I have debunked them. If their are other claims I have missed post them below. If you feel I didn't debunk a claim above, leave a comment on how.
Authors note: I am not bashing Naruto as a character. If anything I am targeting his fans. Naruto as a character has somewhat warmed on me to the point that I actually kind of like him. However, his fans are a whole different story. Often you see Naruto fans talking/targeting Sasuke, more than you see them actually talking about Naruto.
Only your rebuttal of claim 2 is unquestionably correct, whereas your refutal of claim 3 can be countered.
Claim 1:
The reality is, Naruto won the fight. If a side surrenders and concedes, it's a victory regardless of their physical condition (which was close to equal, although Naruto was in slightly better shape given he regained consciousness first). This is a fact of battles. Naruto himself felt that VOTE 1 was his loss despite being completely capable of doing as much damage to Sasuke as he received.
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One can't simply claim that VOTE 1 was Sasuke's victory, while claiming that VOTE 2 wasn't his loss.
Claim 2:
I agree, this was not a base ransengan, nothing needs to be said. Anybody that would say otherwise has terrible reading comprehension.
Claim 3:
While this is correct, you'd need to bring in evidence that Sasuke would use anything less than all the chakra he could squeeze out of the bijus when he had every intention of completely obliterating Naruto.
Claim 4:
False. The limit is 5 meters. He could not swap with Naruto at that distance.
Claim 5:
Definitely false. Regardless of Naruto's reserve's scale, any reserve he used up could have been used. Kurama himself said that the entire war was having a toll on Naruto, and Naruto did fight much longer, and did far more draining things than Sasuke.
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You could easily make the argument that Naruto's fatigue wouldn't have made much of a difference in the long run, but the assertion is true. Naruto was war-torn. This is a manga fact, and cannot be refuted. The only question is how much of a factor it was.
i agree with every one of your claims except the one with indra`s arrow....well only partially....as it is logical sasuke didnt absorb ALL of bijuus` chakra i think he did absorb almost all of it,just barely leaving beasts to exist...however this is my speculation
