#Debunked

[salamander uchiha]

If you improved your comprehension, you would have understood that Shape manipulation is A ranked no matter what technique its used in. (Kakashi literally says "Any change in form")

Which is nonsense since the peak of form manipulation Rasengan (A rank) and the lowest level of form manipulatuon can never be the same rank/difficulty in learning. Had you taken the whole and not the part you would know the purpose of the statement was to empathise the difficulty in learning the rasengan. Since Kakashi made reference to it before the claim about form manipulation and then after.

The resulting damage level or what the jutsu does determines its true rank irregardless of Shape transformation being A rank. Wasn't expecting you to grasp this anyways :lol

So speculation it is,

Okay I know Hanabi is without peer.

Thanks for agreeing, I knew we'd find common ground.

Ps. Salamander signing out.

 

[Reviewing Logic]

But I think we’ve come to a consensus, Byakugou requires a higher degree of precision based on the facts then TLF based on facts but TLF absolutely does require precise chakra control just not on the level of the latter.

you can't agree as to which is better when they are different feats in chakra control


if they did the same thing and both used KKG then go ahead and compare but right now you can't


and you can't in a battle as well because what the said move does isn't chakra control but how they make the said move is

regardless the fact that the byakugou is now even being compared means it no longer was/is the false notion of being the pinnacle or peak



so far the only time pinnacle was used was for Boruto and that isn't even about CC

 

[Jinrou]

Which is nonsense since the peak of form manipulation Rasengan (A rank) and the lowest level of form manipulatuon can never be the same rank/difficulty in learning. Had you taken the whole and not the part you would know the purpose of the statement was to empathise the difficulty in learning the rasengan. Since Kakashi made reference to it before the claim about form manipulation and then after.

:lol By that logic, Rasengan's transformation should be S-rank since it is the highest form and the highest forms are given the rank S. But it isn't.. Why? Because any and all shape transformation's are ranked A hence Kakashi's statement. That you can't comprehend doesn't mean it is nonsense man :lol

 

[Melanin]

you can't agree as to which is better when they are different feats in chakra control

No their not.

The chakra control needed to execute a jutsu varies yes but no matter the variation they both can measured by precision which every single jutsu is subject to. I repeat: every jutsu requires some type of precision whether it be high or low, small or great ect... example: both a plane and a train are methods of transportation or can both transport in a particular time frame, even though their both different type transportation isn’t one faster then the other factually?

if they did the same thing and both used KKG then go ahead and compare but right now you can't

Horrible last logic and it’s a bad way to take an L.

Both techniques require chakra control no matter the circumstance and both techniques require/can be measured by precision; we can logically differentiate the measurements of each techniques precision.

You make zero sense fam.. your basically saying that we wouldnt be able to agree that a plane is faster then train becuase they are both two different types of transportation.

Precision isn’t a type of chakra control, it’s an element that every jutsu shares.

 

[MightGai]

Why are you using DB descriptions, which are known to inflate statements for effect, in these discussions?. Is Temari capable of blowing away the entire universe now?. Just no.

 

[Darth Natsu Shazneel]

Why are you using DB descriptions, which are known to inflate statements for effect, in these discussions?. Is Temari capable of blowing away the entire universe now?. Just no.

Its to wank what ever is left of Sakura in the history books.

 

[salamander uchiha]

:lol By that logic, Rasengan's transformation should be S-rank since it is the highest form and the highest forms are given the rank S. But it isn't.. Why? Because any and all shape transformation's are ranked A hence Kakashi's statement. That you can't comprehend doesn't mean it is nonsense man :lol

Thats the point, because the highest level of change in chakra form is A rank because of difficulty then lesser forms are lesser rank. And besides all jutsu requre change in chakra form they all have different ranks like Raiju Tsuiga whic is C rank etc. I dont know why I'm forced to repeat myself it's obvious the statement was referring to the Rasengan just bwcause you decide to igbore that doesnt make it any less true.
SPOILER]

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[/SPOILER]
Here's a scan showing what kishi means by chamge in chakra form as he gives a few examples, that also includes elemental jutsu and their change in form. Raijin Tsuiga fullfills both conditions and is C rank its obvious animal forms are lesser rank.

 

[Jinrou]

Spoiler

Thats the point, because the highest level of change in chakra form is A rank because of difficulty then lesser forms are lesser rank. And besides all jutsu requre change in chakra form they all have different ranks like Raiju Tsuiga whic is C rank etc. I dont know why I'm forced to repeat myself it's obvious the statement was referring to the Rasengan just bwcause you decide to igbore that doesnt make it any less true.
SPOILER]

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Here's a scan showing what kishi means by chamge in chakra form as he gives a few examples, that also includes elemental jutsu and their change in form. Raijin Tsuiga fullfills both conditions and is C rank its obvious animal forms are lesser rank.[/SPOILER]

Smh. Again, the transformation obviously does not follow the conventional ranking system seeing as Kakashi says "Mastering any shape in form is A". That statement is corroborated by the fact that despite Rasengan being the highest level, it is ranked an A in shape transformation despite S being the rank reserved for techniques of the highest level.

Bad comprehension only leads to abhorrent logic because by your "animals are lesser rank" comment; Kirin, Black Panther and all of Kisame's Shark stuff would be C ranked which as we know is fanfic of the highest order.

Not to mention common sense should at least let you realize that tracking fang's only purpose is to stop movement as per the DB scan you posted.. No damage at all and yet you think because it uses an A rank transformation, it must be A rank in overall power as well :lol That's clearly not how it works.

 

[HyuugaHeir]

You get Chakra COntrol. YOu get Chkara ConTrol. YOu get ChaKra cOnntrol.
Everybody gets CHakra coNtrol!

Seriously, if Byakugou is the "PInnacle of chakra control," I don't see how Sakura and Tsunade can't perform other generic chakra control -dependent jutsus, say Rasengan easily. Oh wait, maybe because it is only within the bounds of medical ninjutsu?

Symposium: (Superior) Chakra Control is for everyone.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Smh. Again, the transformation obviously does not follow the conventional ranking system seeing as Kakashi says "Mastering any shape in form is A". That statement is corroborated by the fact that despite Rasengan being the highest level, it is ranked an A in shape transformation despite S being the rank reserved for techniques of the highest level.

Try and keep up the databook entry makes it clear shape manipulation isn't soley A rank and has various levels, as examples are given by Kishi himself.

Bad comprehension only leads to abhorrent logic because by your "animals are lesser rank" comment; Kirin, Black Panther and all of Kisame's Shark stuff would be C ranked which as we know is fanfic of the highest order.

This is the best comeback. Kilin is natural lightning, is manipulating nature jutsu of regular level (Hinata's)?
Black panther(not sure) and Kisame's ninjutsu aren't generated by the hands so to bringing them to back up your case is a joke. We're discussing change in chakra form generated from the hands not other parts. Bring relevant examples please, not fallacious ones. Hinata's and Kakashi's are generated from the hands and 1 is C rank although it has change in form and nature so we know what rank an animal form is from the same body part.

Not to mention common sense should at least let you realize that tracking fang's only purpose is to stop movement as per the DB scan you posted.. No damage at all and yet you think because it uses an A rank transformation, it must be A rank in overall power as well :lol That's clearly not how it works.

It hits it's opponents with deadly fangs yet causes no damage. Jinrou logic I hate to break it to you but lightning element jutsu have a secondary effect which involves paralysing / numbing an opponent. Secondly there's no mention of only purpose in the scan I provided even if there was deadly fangs would negate that claim. The fact is not all form manipulation is A rank the pinacle of form manipulation (rasengan) is A rank confimred. And you making your own conditions that power makes a Jutsu A rank is fallacious at best unless you have a manga statement or datbook statement supporting such claims.

 

[Uverdore9]

This is nonsense at it's finest. Kakashi out right stated Sakura >>>>>>>> All rookies participating in the Chuunin exams has, the absolutely greatest chakra control. Shaping sand into a spherical form did not put Gaara >>>>> Sakura according to Kakashi? I will take Kakashi words over butthurt excuses any day so you can stop the BS and obvious back tracking, people. Chidori is A Rank and Raikiri is S Rank still it do not convert itself into animals or bears or horses? Stop using horrible logic it, is not getting you any where. Shape control and chakra control are different things people otherwise why is not the S Rank RasenShuriken not considered >>>>>> Byakugou which does not convert into lions and sparrows to prove it is legit in terms of chakra control? Hyuga's feats are overrated as fuq as usual hey, Controlling all chakra from the emitted points is a specialty of the hyuga clan not a chakra control feat clear from Neji's sentence "I will tell you a secret, I can emit chakra from all my openings" to Kidomaru. Kidomaru knows more about chakra than you know. He knows it is impossible to emit chakra from all body parts at the same time, it is obvious that it is a hidden secret of The Hyugas so stop that BS analogy putting it above Byakugou right now. Saauke mastered tons of shape manipulation, Minato did, Naruto did, yet the series keeps hyping Byakugou for it's massive prowess in the art and calls it the pinnacle of Chakra Control? Sakura made Obito travel miles of distances with that little chakra she has left despite healing Naruto earlier? Because her chakra control >>>>>>>>> Sasuke and Naruto and every one your favourities chakra controls. Stop hyping hyugas non existent BS controls putting it above the almighty Byakugou and Sakura.

Spoiler

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[Melanin]

Why are you using DB descriptions, which are known to inflate statements for effect, in these discussions?. Is Temari capable of blowing away the entire universe now?. Just no.

Blowing away the the universe is a hyperbole, having precisely chakra control is an actual quantified measurement, you can understand the difference right?

 

[MomoSaka]

Sakura solos.

 

[Jinrou]

Try and keep up the databook entry makes it clear shape manipulation isnt soley A rank and has various levels as examples are given by Kishi himself.

Only your bad level of comprehension would read that and translate it into meaning there are levels.

This is the best comeback. Kilin is natural lightning, is manipulating nature jutsu of regular level (Hinata's)?
Black panther(not sure) and Kisame's ninjutsu aren't generated by the hands so to bring them is a joke. We're discussing change in chakra form generated from the hands not other parts??. Bring relevant examples please not fallacious ones. Hinata's and Kakashi's are generated from the hands and 1 is C rank although it has change in form and nature so we know what rank an animal form is from the same body part.

Yet another pathetic reply.

- Shape transformation bro. Kirin didn't take the shape of a dragon until Sasuke was connected to the lightning via chakra.
[

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]..

- The rest of the post is just laughable as usual.

Kishi through DB: Depending on the users skill and how he manifests it, Ninjutsu can change shapes

I really couldn't care less at your attempts to manipulate facts.

It hits it's opponents with deadly fangs yet causes no damage. Jinrou logic I hate to break it to you but lightning element jutsu have a secondary effect which involves paralysing / numbing an opponent. Secondly there's no mention of only purpose in the scan I provided even if there was deadly fangs would negate that claim. The fact is not all form manipulation is A rank the pinacle of form manipulation (rasengan) is A rank confimred. And you making your own conditions that power makes a Jutsu A rank is fallacious at best unless you have a manga statement or datbook statement supporting such claims.

Rebuttal would have made sense if Chidori stream whose main purpose was to seize movement wasn't point blank said to cause damage as well [

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]

Bold.. And yet you are confident CC determines the rank a technique gets without proof of your own and which wouldn't even make sense as that logic would imply;

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and

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should be ranked higher than C
- Walking on Trees would be between A and S rank
- Rasengan on its own should be ranked S since transformation doesn't get any better and
- Gai and Lee's techniques shouldn't have ranks.

And before you start whining about comparisons, Shape transformation is still very much Chakra control. So unless you have valid reasons with proof as to why techniques that use shape transformation are ranked based on cc but other techniques aren't ranked based on cc, stay your fanfic.

Christ. Debating with a wall would be better tbh.

 

[salamander uchiha]

-more off topic points which are excuse because I have nothing-

I was expecting more from you I guess I gave you too much credit. I didn't ask for more off topic examples and excuses, I asked for like for like examples and you bring more of the same the reason I won't respond to them is because it'll change the subject again. I've proven form manipulation from the hand into animal shapes is C rank, you haven't provided anything to negate that. The topic of discussion everything else you bring is irrelevant.

Come back with actual(relevant) facts and like for like examples instead of excuses until then concession accepted.

 

[Reboryushon]

Shape transformation is still very much Chakra control. So unless you have valid reasons with proof as to why techniques that use shape transformation are ranked based on cc but other techniques aren't ranked based on cc, stay your fanfic.

Even more superior is Shape transformation while combining chakra with another user. I am quite sure that feat alone is above a c-rank technique..

It not only requires superior CC from both users but it also requires them to be an experienced duo, exactly as stated by Tobirama when Enton: Rasenshuriken was used by Sasuke and Naruto.

I don't really like to post movie gifs but The Last is canon and it shows Hinata prowess at combining her chakra with Naruto and shape the lion fist around his Rasengan while attacking the Tenseigan.

A beautiful NaruHina moment..

 

[Jinrou]

Even more superior is Shape transformation while combining chakra with another user. I am quite sure that feat alone is above a c-rank technique..

It not only requires superior CC from both users but it also requires them to be an experienced duo, exactly as stated by Tobirama when Enton: Rasenshuriken was used by Sasuke and Naruto.

I don't really like to post movie gifs but The Last is canon and it shows Hinata prowess at combining her chakra with Naruto and shape the lion fist around his Rasengan while attacking the Tenseigan.

A beautiful NaruHina moment..

Agreed lol.. And iirc, she doesn't use her byakugan too. Forgot about the Sasuke-Naruto combination stuff though xD It was really difficult for me to keep up with events of that war arc tbh XD

 

[Glad Of War]

Let alone this is before Rikudo Hinata

and Rikudo >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basic chakra

Hinata has Rikudo chakra..?
Tell me something I don't know.

 

[Reviewing Logic]

Hinata has Rikudo chakra..?
Tell me something I don't know.

well apparently you know that so I don't know why I need to reply :sdo:

 

[Darth AniCetuS]

Wow Michael's thread really made some people salty.