#Debunked

[Reviewing Logic]

You don't make any sense. Kurama is technically Rikudou chakra, since it stems from the bigger combination of chakra, but Naruto while having it was still lacking severely in CC. Then when he actually got Rikudou chakra he didn't have to train for it, nor Sasuke, and Hinata being a similar case in that she got the chakra from a deceased god, she also didn't need to train for it. So where's the confusion?

Naruto in Part 1 let Kuruma just take over


it wasn't a CC until Naruto mastered it and attained Chakra mode


he turned it into his own thing then it just seeping out and consuming him to eventually revive the the 9 tails as a whole



the fact that Kuruma's chakra is nature based and toxic too makes Naruto's feat an even better chakra feat then byakugou, twin lion fist, rasen shuriken, etc...

 

[Reboryushon]

I would just like to say that "Highest chakra control" could be mistaken by precise or the other way around. Several translations point in the direction that Ninpo-Sozosaisei-Byakugo-no-Jutsu (P.279) of the "Jin no Sho" databook actually means this..

"..whereby one accumulates chakra thanks to precise chakra control"

It is written like this in German and it seems that Brazilian translations also point this way.

Category: Ninjutsu

User(s): Tsunade, Sakura Haruno

Difficulty level: S
Role: support
Range: N/A


The jutsu, that seizes/assumes power over death!
(German: Die Kunst, die dem Tod die Macht nimmt!)

The ultimate regeneration technique – a combination of the Byakugo-no-In, whereby one accumulates chakra thanks to precise chakra control, and the Ninpo-Sozosaisei, with which one can regenerate their body even without hand seals. The First Hokage possessed such an immense amount of chakra, that for him Ninpo-Sozosaisei was enough for regeneration. (German: …dass ihm Ninpo-Sozosaisei zur Regeneration reichte.) In comparison to him Tsunade lacks in chakra and therefore utilizes both jutsu in parallel.

For that reason she has regeneration power at her disposal for a longer period of time. Unless vital body parts are affected or very deep wounds are present, she can restore her body back to the state of absolute 'uninjuredness'. Tsunade attempts all, to prevent death and to protect the lives of comrades… This determination brought the wondrous regeneration technique to completion.

Anyway.. This translation seems quite accurate because we saw Tsunade needing help to recover after being split in half, while the one posted by Melanin says otherwise.

When ones life is effected by grave wounds pushed to the point where they’d normally die, ones body is instantly returned to an unwounded condition.

^We saw how this went.

So..This is nothing but another translation and it should be taken with a grain of salt but it serves to show that until there is a proper official translation, threads like this and riled up Sakura/Hinata fanbases are discussing the color of air.

....

Everything requires chakra control, gentle fist, medical nin techniques, they are just for a different usage and no one should say Sakura or Tsunade CC isn't a freaking amazing feat because it is.

 

[Reviewing Logic]

idk even know why we are comparing the two in the first place

since ONE is literally a KKG based move so regardless Sakura can't do it

let alone how that is acquired and how byakugou is acquired is via different means of production and chakra control


there is more then one aspect of chakra control

it isn't even the same path but a full circle that has a circumference of which side to max out

 

[Reboryushon]

idk even know why we are comparing the two in the first place

since ONE is literally a KKG based move so regardless Sakura can't do it

let alone how that is acquired and how byakugou is acquired is via different means of production and chakra control


there is more then one aspect of chakra control

it isn't even the same path but a full circle that has a circumference of which side to max out

Sakura CC is different from Hinata CC. I think we could only compare they CC if the usage of the techniques were the same. Ofc Sakura CC for the purpose of being a medical nin is great and it requires latent talent, otherwise every other medical nin would be like her or Tsunade.

As for Hyuuga techniques, they are freaking precise and Hinata also reveals an amazing talent in order to be able to use Twin step gentle lion fist.

日向一族の中でも宗家にしか伝わっていない、柔拳秘伝高等体術。両手から放出するチャクラを形態変化させることで、リーチと破壊力を格段に向上させる。その腕はまるで獅子のような様相を呈し、触れた相手の経絡系を喰らい尽くすのだ。
A secret high-level juuken technique, taught only to the main family of the Hyuuga clan. By changing the shape of chakra released from both hands, [the user] greatly increases reach and destructive power. The arms become entirely like lions which drain the chakra network of those they touch.


チャクラコントロールを少しでも誤ると失敗するため、習得は極めて困難緻密な技量と“白眼”があればこその芸当である。


Because it will fail at even the slightest mistake in chakra control, it is extremely difficult to learn this ability, which is a feat that requires the Byakugan.

And Neji Gentle fist being praised..

Spoiler

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This must also serve for Hinata..

Spoiler

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Summing up..

Hyuugas, Sakura, Tsunade, Naruto, Sasuke etc.. are all savages in CC regarding their own thing and feats.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Chidori is more powerful

has speed feats

gives the user tunnel vision and is harder to learn and was a substitute to the rasengan

Chidori isn't faster the speed of its dependant on the user and it doesn't give tunnel vision the user gets tunnel vision moving at high speed. None of that was the reason for it to be A rank though it was to do with the difficulty of the jutsu.

you can have stronger better affinity moves compared to weaker ones

Your right but the strength of said jutsu can be adjusted by the user. What more difficult difficult discharging chakra= chidori or producing a change in chakra nature then changing its form into an animal? One would assume the latter is more difficult yet it's C rank although it's far more complex in out ward appearance.

unless you think Buntan's lightning moves in Boruto are as hard as Chidori

Your reaching highly and trying to deflect from the subject at hand.

a Rasengan is just chakra, kakakashi said manipulating just that is already A rank

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A rasengan isn't just chakra it's the highest level of spacial/form manipulation of pure chakra. And it's A rank just as Chidori is. understand why you quote partial scans now. If it were as you said that a any change in form is A rank then the highest level(rasengan) would be S rank + which we know is not the case because it's the peak and it's A rank. Therefore that statement is out of context and was in reference to the rasengan as Kakshi continues and mentions he copied it. So something lesser like animal forms as shown are C rank and also confirmed via databook.

unless you have a scan to disprove other wise

The answer is simple. Can Sakura replicate the twin lion fist?

That's really stupid since Hinata also uses it without the Byakugan. And like I've said you require delicate chakra control to walk up a tree the slightest expulsion from the wrong place and you fall off. Twin lion fist is a jutsu which originates from the hands and Jonin level ninja can manipulate chakra from the hands. The rest I'll let you speculate on since I'm not interestedin fanfic to prove a point. If your arguing it's a kekkei genkai(I highly doubt) then it can't be compared but if we were to compare then it would be compared to walking up a tree in difficulty level since that too requires precise chakra control.

 

[Melanin]

mastering it makes it skilled

Naruto Mastering Kyuubi chakra compared to his Part 1 self that just let it consume him makes him a better chakra master then a ton of people

Hamura's rikudo chakra was able to revive Naruto's chakra after being depleted by Toneri in seconds when it took Sakura to do the same thing with 3 consecutive days with no rest


Hinata hasn't mastered it as far as I know

This is all irrelevant, if hinata’s was able to do what she was given the chakra for then you'd have an argument but she wasn’t skilled enough to utilize it so she transferred it to Naruto. You bringing this up doesn’t help Hinata at all, it only shows her inability.

again the slightest mistake makes it a failure

The highest most precise chakra control is needed to create byakugou.

to the point that you NEED the byakugan the best chakra seeing eye

Byakugou requires that your chakra control be at the highest level of precision, so precise that there isn’t away around its complexity unlike there is with twin lion fist.

the one's that out do it are Naruto's rasen shuriken that had him melding his other potent chakra

the rikduo sasuke feats

the Jin feats

and other KKG or more powerful chakra things that need more control and or effor

This is means nothing in the face of Byakugou requiring the highest form of precise chakra control, post the scan or DB that states any of which you listed as being at the highest form of chakra control.

Not your own words just a scan or translation

Sakura deals with regular chakra and so her thing isn't so precise that it needs a magnifying glass to accomplish

The manga perpetuates the exact opposite.

Sakura is able to gather or circulate chakra from every exact point in her body and release it at once. She can use jutsu to their maximum amount of efficiency or utilization (scan below).

Spoiler

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In reference to you saying “her thing isn't so precise that it needs a magnifying glass to accomplish” your wrong again.

It’s called cellular chakra control!

Technique 1: Delicate Illness Extraction Technique

Spoiler

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Technique 2: Healing Resuscitation Regeneration Technique (Chikatsu Saisei no Jutsu)

Spoiler

Ninjutsu, A-rank, Supplementary, Close-range

Users: Medical Team

In this formation, a burning restoring of life, a wondrous medical ninjutsu!!

With part of the casualty’s body as a medium, that part’s cell ratio is changed, and the lost part is regenerated. Due to the extreme difficulty and chakra control required for matching up the cell ratio, this requires a long period of time.

Using a special intensive care unit, this act is laid out. For this medical treatment, teamwork between similar jutsu users is most vital.
Through the collection of cells from the hair, it is used as a medium.
The lost part is filled up with new cells.
Minute attention to detail is necessary. This treatment’s success rate is not high…”

Sakuras chakra control is more precise then Hinata’s or antithetical hyugas.

 

[Reviewing Logic]

Sakura CC is different from Hinata CC. I think we could only compare they CC if the usage of the techniques were the same. Ofc Sakura CC for the purpose of being a medical nin is great and it requires latent talent, otherwise every other medical nin would be like her or Tsunade.

As for Hyuuga techniques, they are freaking precise and Hinata also reveals an amazing talent in order to be able to use Twin step gentle lion fist.



And Neji Gentle fist being praised..

Spoiler

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This most also serve for Hinata..

Spoiler

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Summing up..

Hyuugas, Sakura, Tsunade, Naruto, Sasuke etc.. are all savages in CC regarding their own thing and feats.

plus in all honesty the ranking in all of this beyond Rikudo monsters like Sasuke, Naruto, Hagoromo, etc...

is that the rules for CC was made my a Shonen author that contradicted himself on numerous occasions to pour out chapters on a weekly basis


he is human and like didn't even have a foundation on what and how chakra rankings would be beyond end game people

let alone comparisons between different types of chakra and also different types of chakra control


he is only human

This is all irrelevant, if hinata’s was able to do what she was given the chakra for then you'd have an argument but she wasn’t skilled enough to utilize it so she transferred it to Naruto. You bringing this up doesn’t help Hinata at all, it only shows her inability.





The highest most precise chakra control is needed to create byakugou.



Byakugou requires that your chakra control be at the highest level of precision, so precise that there isn’t away around its complexity unlike there is with twin lion fist.



This is means nothing in the face of Byakugou requiring the highest form of precise chakra control, post the scan or DB that states any of which you listed as being at the highest form of chakra control.

Not your own words just a scan or translation




The manga perpetuates the exact opposite.

Sakura is able to gather or circulate chakra from every exact point in her body and release it at once. She can use jutsu to their maximum amount of efficiency or utilization (scan below).

Spoiler

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In reference to you saying “her thing isn't so precise that it needs a magnifying glass to accomplish” your wrong again.

It’s called cellular chakra control!

Technique 1: Delicate Illness Extraction Technique

Spoiler

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Technique 2: Healing Resuscitation Regeneration Technique (Chikatsu Saisei no Jutsu)

Spoiler

Ninjutsu, A-rank, Supplementary, Close-range

Users: Medical Team

In this formation, a burning restoring of life, a wondrous medical ninjutsu!!

With part of the casualty’s body as a medium, that part’s cell ratio is changed, and the lost part is regenerated. Due to the extreme difficulty and chakra control required for matching up the cell ratio, this requires a long period of time.

Using a special intensive care unit, this act is laid out. For this medical treatment, teamwork between similar jutsu users is most vital.
Through the collection of cells from the hair, it is used as a medium.
The lost part is filled up with new cells.
Minute attention to detail is necessary. This treatment’s success rate is not high…”

Sakuras chakra control is more precise then Hinata’s or antithetical hyugas.

what are you talking about she made the tecnique


she only combined it with Naruto's for strength

that isn't even about chakra control but destruction cabailities


her chakara was used to drain and also make the thing vulnerable as it can only be destroyed with Hamura chakra while Naruto added the destructooomph


you seem not to know what chakra control and ninjutsu power is and what difference it makes


no where did it say highest form

it said most precise

stop trying to make it into the end all be all of something when VIZ doesn't agree



oh and a byakugan is more accurate in finding things then your medic scans

it is the best in insight

 

[Jinrou]

That side note is intriguing though lol... By that definition, what level do you think this is then? [

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]

Luckily people have posted other translations that question the validity of this but if that weren't even the case, there are situations where common sense can be applied. If Byakugo is the pinnacle, then a technique that debuted in p1 Chakra control's is > than every other high level technique like Rasenshuriken, Naruto's alliance chakra feat and Sasuke's Hagoromo comparison. That makes no sense.

Also are you trying to discredit the difficulty of TLF?

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Edit: A single body part at a time. Not only does TLF utilize two body parts, it also uses the difficult Shape Transformation.

We know you don't like Hinata but c'mon man.


Hiashi and Hizashi both excelling at CC as per db1 is proof the Hyuga excel at CC which makes sense because they have a dojutsu which helps understand how chakra circulates with relative ease.

 

[Melanin]

Stop moving the goal post & deflecting, then go review your logic!

Every type of chakra is subject to control and precise chakra control is on of many aspects of chakra control. Just because you have two different jutsu being used doesn’t mean their precision cannot be measured, compared and contrasted to eachother.

 

[Reviewing Logic]

Stop moving the goal post & deflecting, then go review your logic!

Every type of chakra is subject to control and precise chakra control is on of many aspects of chakra control. Just because you have two different jutsu being used doesn’t mean their precision cannot be measured, compared and contrasted to eachother.

The hell are you talking about?


Literally I stated in the first post that the twin lion fist and byakugou are two separate things

Your the one that is triggered from a thread debunking something as the pinnacle when Kishi was known to over hype shit in a vacuum. As in without the comparison of another thing.

Let alone VIZ and those translation you showed never said anything about it being the pinnacle.

MOST PRECISE? So? Most precise chakra control in what? Storing chakra in a single point for years.

There is more then one CC task in existence.

The twin lion fist is a KKG move it isn't even comparable to something that isn't because they are different things entirely, that are achieved via different means and do different result.

Like one person bakes a pizza and other bakes a cake yet apparently from that someone can say who is the better baker.

Yet I am not going around spouting it as the pinnacle of chakra control over the over wanking of " even the slightest mistake in chakra control" to mean perfect or pinnacle.

Again just admit it other people can have chakra control feats. It isn't exclusive to Sakura.

Plus it isn't Sakura's only highlight in her career as a medic. Stop being overly rapid when your fave isn't the sole person who is praised in a broad field that has multiple crafts and classes.

 

[Darth Natsu Shazneel]

Stop moving the goal post & deflecting, then go review your logic!

Every type of chakra is subject to control and precise chakra control is on of many aspects of chakra control. Just because you have two different jutsu being used doesn’t mean their precision cannot be measured, compared and contrasted to eachother.

Control your posts before you control Sakura's chakara. In the world of science this type of control is something every ninja must have in order to be a good shonobi. You need to review your logic again.

 

[Reviewing Logic]

the only thing the other thread did was kick the false notion that byakugou was the pinnacle of chakra control

the fact that now you compare it with other said moves means that it is just like everything else which is comparable and is no longer in the fanfic of being perfect



Moves like Indra's arrow are what you CALL the PINNACLE or at least the best feats in CC.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Also are you trying to discredit the difficulty of TLF?

Spoiler

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Edit: A single body part at a time. Not only does TLF utilize two body parts, it also uses the difficult Shape Transformation.

Somebody needs to brush up on their comprehension skills since the snippet continues and mentions what is meant by single body part(like hands and feet=plural). There's nothing difficult about changing the shape into animal form, it's more difficult to change the shape into rasengan which is the highest level of form manipulation and A rank.

 

[Melanin]

Also are you trying to discredit the difficulty of TLF?

We know you don't like Hinata but c'mon man.

Hiashi and Hizashi both excelling at CC as per db1 is proof the Hyuga excel at CC which makes sense because they have a dojutsu which helps understand how chakra circulates with relative ease.

First off I don’t dislike Hinata and you can fact check me. I’ve never called her fodder, useless, I’ve never bashed her or even not give her the recognition and acknowledgement she deserves. I wish the same could be said about Hinata’s fans and their responses and criticisms of Sakura but back to the topic:

Me saying that byakugou requires more precise chakra control becuase it requires you to maintain the highest form of precision for three years straight isn’t down playing TLF. It’s laying down facts and it’s a fact that byakugou is above it in precision and it’s not up for debate but I can acknowledge the complexity of the jutsu.

Hiashi and Hizashi both excelling at CC as per db1 is proof the Hyuga excel at CC which makes sense because they have a dojutsu which helps understand how chakra circulates with relative ease.

Sakura had mastery of @bold from the beginning and she’s didn’t have a dojutsu to help her understand; to take it a step further Sakura mastered chakra manipulation in the beginning without a dojutsu as well.

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That was only part 1 Sakura.

 

[Jinrou]

Somebody needs to brush up on their comprehension skills since the snippet continues and mentions what is meant by single body part(like hands and feet). There's nothing difficult about changing the shape into animal forms what is more difficult are things like rasengan which is the highest level of form manipulation and A rank.

This pathetic excuse of a counter is suggesting the difficulty of techniques is assigned based on the chakra control needed which is false. Check your facts bro. Puppetry as an example needs an advanced talent in CC and so does Cherry blossom impact but it doesn't change the fact that they are both C-ranked.

First off I don’t dislike Hinata and you can fact check me. I’ve never called her fodder, useless, I’ve never bashed her or even not give her the recognition and acknowledgement she deserves. I wish the same could be said about Hinata’s fans and their responses and criticisms of Sakura but back to the topic:

Me saying that byakugou requires more precise chakra control becuase it requires you to maintain the highest form of precision for three years straight isn’t down playing TLF. It’s laying down facts and it’s a fact that byakugou is above it in precision and it’s not up for debate but I can acknowledge the complexity of the jutsu.

:lol.. Melanin who is greater between Hanabi and Hinata? :lol

Sakura had mastery of @bold from the beginning and she’s didn’t have a dojutsu to help her understand; to take it a step further Sakura mastered chakra manipulation in the beginning without a dojutsu as well.

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That was only part 1 Sakura.

- Clearly there are levels of mastery because Eighty gods Vacuum attack by Kaguya is as a result of her mastery over her chakra and i think there are more examples and i know you won't suggest Sakura or Tsunade can do the tech.

- I think what we are talking about is Shape transformation?

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[Team7monaa]

Sakura had to maintain a constant state to form an entire new chakra reservatio, it’s on a completely different calibre to the hyuuga techniques thus why it’s ranked as an S-rank technique. Don’t even get me started on the fact that the chakra sent through the body recovers wounds immediately without the need for hand-signs or the fact that Sakura is immune to genjutsu which automatically puts her CC on a higher pedestal.

 

[salamander uchiha]

This pathetic excuse of a counter is suggesting the difficulty of techniques is assigned based on the chakra control needed which is false. Check your facts bro. Puppetry as an example needs an advanced talent in CC and so does Cherry blossom impact but it doesn't change the fact that they are both C-ranked.

I didn't know it made you :salt:y af. And we're discussing form manipulation and difficulty level. Only a like for like comparison can be made next time come back with something decent. I don't like countering BS.

Ps. Thanks for conceding on the snippet.

:lol.. Salamander who is greater between Hanabi and Hinata? :lol

The superflous Hyuga(Hinata) or the Heiress of the Hyuga clan Hanabi Hime. We all know Hanabi Hime is greater minus the Hinata zealots

 

[Melanin]

The hell are you talking about?

Your failed attempt to redirect the thread!

Literally I stated in the first post that the twin lion fist and byakugou are two separate things

Which you didn’t have to say becuase its abc logic, your filibustering.

Your the one that is triggered from a thread debunking something as the pinnacle when Kishi was known to over hype shit in a vacuum. As in without the comparison of another thing.

No ones triggered anything. Just as the other members thread was entitled to debunking a mistranslation, I’m entitled to debunk the notion of TLF requireing the same level precision as byakugou.

Let alone VIZ and those translation you showed never said anything about it being the pinnacle.

When did I say my thread or any of its translations would or could challenge Viz’s translation? My thread isn’t about that, it’s particularly about the factual basis of byakugo being the highest form of chakra control.

MOST PRECISE? So? Most precise chakra control in what? Storing chakra in a single point for years.

No more precise in controlling your chakra period, the fact that byakugou requires you to maintain the highest form of precisionary chakra control for 3 years continuously attributed to its difficulty compared to another jutsu.

There is more then one CC task in existence

All techniques and it’s chakra control are based on the same fundamentals just as every technique or jutsu requires some level of precision. That’s. What this thread is about, precision and every single jutsu applies no matter what the jutsu is.

Simple.

 

[Jinrou]

I didn't know it made you :salt:y af. And we're discussing form manipulation and difficulty level. Only a like for like comparison can be made next time come back with something decent. I don't like countering BS.

Ps. Thanks for conceding on the snippet.

If you improved your comprehension, you would have understood that Shape manipulation is A ranked no matter what technique its used in. (Kakashi literally says "Any change in form")

The resulting damage level or what the jutsu does determines its true rank irregardless of Shape transformation being A rank. Wasn't expecting you to grasp this anyways :lol

The superflous Hyuga(Hinata) or the Heiress of the Hyuga clan Hanabi Hime. We all know Hanabi Hime is greater minus the Hinata zealots

Okay :lol

 

[Melanin]

But I think we’ve come to a consensus, Byakugou requires a higher degree of precision based on the facts then TLF based on facts but TLF absolutely does require precise chakra control just not on the level of the latter.