Restrictions: Edo Tensei,Sound Genjutsu,Chibaku Tensei,White Rage,Soul Dragon,Inzanami and KA
Knowledge:Manga
Location: Valley of the end
Distance:25 meters
Danzo starts with his arm unsealed
Ok lets start with kabuto shall we? Kabuto and itachi
As im aware. Kabuto was able to take on the uchiha bros with mid diff in his fight however, im also aware that the intent wasnt to kill but to capture. If we think logically the only itachi could capture kabuto is with izanami but the intent is to kill but its still the same kettle of fish. They exerted themselves to the point where Itachi had to use techs like amatarasu and susano'o.
Some of kabutos techs like hydrification are enough to baffle the functions of The likes of itachis sharingan and can be a very useful factor in this fight.
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By confusing the enemy he automatically has the chance to whip out some dangerous techs, giving he a pr imperative strike. Kabuto also states that his recovery is also amazing and Moves like Snake skin render moves like amatarasu useless; not to mention as a human and not edo, he wouldn't be able to spam it anyway. His limit at best WITH susano'o is 2-3 so he would have to use it wisely and in this fight against two people who can escape death, its hard to find an opening.
If im correct, the only moves that come close to susano'o arrow speed that itachi has is yaska magatama and amatarasu (which is more instant). As shown in the scan below, he is shown to possess incredible speed and dodged the susano'o arrow with ease. Hes done it on more than one occasion. We know that his arrow isnt anything with slow speed feats because danzo had to use mokuton to block it as a last resort.
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As you can see at the scan below, itachi has been caught here with the inorganic recreation and kabuto even states that susano'o makes itachi slower than usual so if itachi does decide to bring out susano'o at any stage in this fight. His speed becomes reduced thus giving kabuto more of a advantage. And lets not forget itachi has MS activated so his predictions skills were on point yet he stil wasnt able to evade such a technique. Giving the environment we have, kabuto can use this same tech to minipulate he water and rocks around him to put itachi on edge (as well as nagato). Since it took him by surprise the first time WITH MS on then whos to say this will not happen again. Even if he happens to evade it, thats what his focus will be on.
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Moving on from that. Another move itachi will struggle to deal with is spider web unrolling. It took two doses of amatarasu to actually get rid of it. now since only itachis here its more likely to hit even if he did use ammy. The fact that they had to use 2x amatarasu mean the web was big enough to coat both uchiha so if its just itachi and nagato. Its more than enough to trap them. Nagato has no counter for this technique
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Bone forest will give both nagato and itachi big trouble. Though he was able to get rid of them WITH susano (which i said earlier drains most of itachis chakra since he isnt edo) this move can effectively drag on the battle meaning susano'o would be on for longer. thus depleting chakra levels.
Kabuto (if necessary) dealing with Nagato
Since much doesnt need to be said about this ill get straight to it.
Before i begin i would like to point out that kabuto knows about most if not all of nagatos techs so he has the upper hand of having full knowlegde
Human path
He needs to get close to kabuto in order to do this and as i have shown, kabuto is more than capable to dodge this. Close combat isnt nagatos strong point anyway so i doubt he will be anxious to get close to kabuto.
Asura path
Im aware that he had up bee and naruto with asura despite speed feats but you must remember that kabuto is much more intelligent that them both and has the ability to analyse a battle fairly well. Even the destructive missles can be blocked or evaded by kabuto. If its a guided missle then it can be slapped away or even tanekd by kabuto since he has hydrification or shed skin
Deva path
Most malicious and irritating path to deal with. But it can be overpowered with reason. Banshou tenin is the tech that nagato would most likely use to assist human path but by Minipulating the objects around him he can do something similar to what naruto did to get out of it. Using the ground as a sheild or simply lashing out a bunch of many hidden shadow snakes so this will cause nagato to abort banshou tenin or get hit. chao shina tensei can be evaded by various different ways. Hydrification or hiding like a mole. Hydrification would be the best solution but hiding like a mole can also be used. This takes alot of chakra consumption and even though he has high chakra reserves. This means nothing since he also has to use other techs.
Animal path
We have the standard summons, the bird and the geko, crab ect. which can be delt with by using moves like bone forest (for the bird he could easily use the ground as spears to impale it as it dives down). The most troublesome summon of all is the dog. He would most probably have to use temple of niravana genutsu to put it to sleep. Thats the only way i can think of to restrain it. OH and of course. Venom from the snake. This will slowly kill it since its not taking external damage but internal damage. Hell Kabuto can even use Manda v2 to crush the lot of them. ill go into depth about manda soon.
Preta path
This is useless against kabuto since he can give nagato his chakra and ultimately turn him into a frog. Not much to say really
Outer path
Rinnie tensei takes some time to work and concentration. This is something he cannot easily obtain during battle. The only time he will use this is if itachi dies in battle and in effect he would have 2 or more enemies to deal with proving concertration useless. He can use gedo mazo and since its just the statue and hasnt got soul dragon its going to be easier to take out with the help of manda. HOWEVER using it makes the user mobilized and drained of chakra so really he will be a sitting duck.
Nagato himself can become poisoned and this will become the highlight of the battle as his movements will become sluggish.
Danzo and itachi
Danzo can actually defeat itachi if he makes the right moves.
Susano'o
As we have seen in the last match the danzo had with sasuke, he was able to break into susano'o using a wind style tech powered by Baku. He will have to make the identical scenario quick as baku was already defeated by saskues katon, and knowing this danzo will waste no time in striking from behind.
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Yata only being able to block from the front and susano'o being sluggish danzo can use this to his advantage and use that wind technique to bypass susano'o . Due to his illness too, he isnt able to move fast himself so this is another downfall.
If danzo should be hit with the totsuka blade then izanagi is put into play and danzo can appear from another area and strike.
Genjutsu
Moves like tsyukyomi can basically kill the opponant one hit but like the other time, danzo can use izanagi to escape this and considering itachi cant spam it, he will be careful how many times he uses mangyekou techs like amatarasu.
If itachi fires off a huge katon. Knowing kabuto and his personality to keep useful peopl ehe will cover danzo and counter it with dragon bullet.
Dazno wouldn't really be fighting nagato because as it turns out kabuto has more knowledge on nagato and danzo has more knowledge on itachi.
Manda v2
The sanke capable a
of coiling around the turtle island is a huge target and can crush people like nagato if hes not careful. Of course giving his size he is a easy target but along with his size he also has speed and the properties of a snake. To even evade or block mandas attacks nagato or itachi would have to use huge scaling jutsu e.g. chao shinra tensei.
Ill post what i got for now and counter your counter. Ill build on teamwork on my next post
The Power of the Rinnegan and Mangekyō Sharingan(Brief Introduction)
Uchiha Itachi and Uzumaki Nagato are very powerful individuals and together could definitely do nearly anything together [
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]. They both excel in the fields of ninjutsu and compared to their opponents are more gifted, especially Itachi a genius and talented individual who can quickly analyze and identify his opponents jutsu's weakness in short periods of time as he has demonstrated before such as his battle against edo Nagato:
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Nagato is also talented himself and wields a dangerous arsenal and his moveset would be very useful against Danzo and Kabuto, especially as Nagato can attack from close,mid and long range jutsu [
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] and him and Itachi's justu combination would be very useful.
Countering Kabuto and Itachi:
You are correct that Itachi did have the intent to capture but now he has the intent to kill and although Kabuto can close his eyes to "avoid" genjutsu however against a opponent such as Itachi eye contact is not required to trap Kabuto in genjutsu as Itachi has genjutsu such as Dusk Crow Genjutsu [
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] or Itachi can use his Ephemeral technique(Finger Genjutsu) to trap Kabuto. Although Itachi's stamina shouldn't be underestimated as seen in his battle with Sasuke that he was able to use Tsukuyomi
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And Amaterasu on more than one occasion in the battle:
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Plus still had enough chakra and stamina to bring out Susano'o:
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And plus Itachi has dangerous jutsu without his Mangekyō Sharingan and his bushin feints would be useful against both Danzo and Kabuto especially Kabuto as it will help him stop doing seals and Itachi can catch him out by using the Katon: Hōsenka Tsumabeni [
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] then throw his exploding clone into the mix like so [
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] and as Kabuto will be fighting with his eyes closed and Itachi's hand seals have been shown to be the fastest in the manga and has been to fast for even Sharingan users to keep up with [
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] so Kabuto would be in deep trouble trying to fight with his eyes closed.
Itachi has a counter for spider web rolling he can use his Amaterasu in conjunction with Nagato's Shura no Kō would be able to deal with the rolling web and the Shura no Kō was able to destroy multiple buildings [
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]-
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].
You are forgetting that Nagato can take to the air via his Giant Bird summoning [
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] or he can levitate like he done with his Deva Path [
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] then take out the forest with a Chou Shinra Tensei which would do this to the forest:
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Countering Kabuto dealing with Nagato:
The Rikudō no Jutsu:
Animal Path:
Lets start with the animal path shall we as seen in all of Nagato's battles he summons multiple of summons to assist him in combat [
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] and [
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], Nagato can easily turn a battlefield into a zoo with his summons and The Multiplying dog has been able to tank Rasenshuriken [
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] and also stated by Nagato the only way to stop the multiplying dog (without Amaterasu) is to defeat Nagato himself which is no easy task.
Human Path:
Human Path can be effective as Kabuto would have his hands filled with summons and Nagato via his chameleon can go invinsible then grab Kabuto with his Kyūkon no Jutsu:
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Asura Path:
Now onto the Asura Path no way is Kabuto escaping it so quickly especially as Nagato grows arms and can extend them to reach his target plus he has shared vision with his summons so will be able to locate Kabuto [
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] and [
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].
Preta Path:
I agree that Preta Path won't be effective against Kabuto especially as Nagato has Itachi with him so Itachi would advise him not to absorb it and also Nagato has knowledge of what happened the last time he tried to absorb Senjutsu.
Deva Path:
You are underestimating Banshō Ten'in Kabuto would'nt have time and using objects to try and avoid Banshō Ten'in has already been shown to be ineffective especially when Nagato can increase the force if necessary [
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] then pull him straight into a Kyūkon no Jutsu. Also Kabuto cannot react as quickly as to Shinra Tensei as you have stated especially when Nagato can take hide with his chameleon and then use Shinra Tensei which doesn't require prep time [
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Outer Path:
Now you are heavily underestimating the Outer Path and Rinne Tensei would drain Nagato's chakra so he wouldn't use it and also the only reason Nagato was immobilized was because of Hanzo's trap [
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-
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] and Konan knew of the Gedo Mazo as she tried to stop Nagato from summoning it which shows he has summoned it before without being immobilized as he his mobility was fine before he got his feet blown up [
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] and Gedo Mazo has jutsu like this to deal with Manda V2 such as its chakra blast:
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Countering Danzo argument:
Inzanagi drains alot of Danzo's chakra and Itachi has the necessary qualities needed to defeat Danzo. Itachi's Shurikenjutsu alone would be difficult for Danzo [
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] to keep up with especially when Itachi is able to make clones during all those shuriken [
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] and can use his clone to explode after Danzo reappears. Itachi can also deal with Baku in a similar fashion as Sasuke [
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] and Itachi>Sasuke intelligence and as soon as Itachi discovers Danzo is Fuuton user he will counter Danzo's moves with his Katons.
You underestimate Itachi's genjutsu usage if Sasuke was able to trick Danzo with a genjutsu imagine what Itachi would do to him and as stated by Kisame in this scan the moment Deidara stared Itachi in the eyes he was already under his genjutsu:
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And as Danzo looks Sharingan users in the eye (like he did against Sasuke) he would be screwed the moment he makes eye contact with Itachi and once Itachi manages to fool Danzo then he can place him under Tsukuyomi and as we know those who are not Uchiha blood are basically screwed when caught under this:
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Manda V2:
A useful summon but can be defeated by the Totsuka Blade like what happened to the Eight Branch Technique:
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Or Gedo Mazo can dispose of him or Nagato can take it out with a Shinra Tensei which was able to solo the three boss toad summons:
Like i said in my previous post, Kabuto knows most if not all of nagatos techs. With this knowledge he can safely analys what nagato plans to do and when he does it. e.g. if he were to use banshou tenin, he will know how to evade it because he has seen naruto evade the technique. Choa ST is the only move i can thick of that will baffle kabuto but to some extent kabuto already knew nagato had it seeing as it would be useless for kabuto to gather edos without having paramount and vital information about their abilities. This includes itachias well as nagato and with this knowledge his can be warey of their techs and also inform his ally danzo of abilities foreign to him. The scan you provided was kabutos doing are you forgetting? he wwas the one controlling nagato at the time so he knows how to deal with fast and strong people such as jins/akatsuki.
Though itachi has his sharingan techs to somewhat "counter" the dangerous duo, you overlooked a grave point. If itachi could use duck crow on kabuto he would have done it to initially capture him but no he HAD to use one of the strongest genjutsus to capture him. Izanami. Dusk crown and finger gen are ineffective on kabuto to current knowledge.
Kabuto has shown to overcome situations he doesnt know about aswell as shown in the brief tsukage encounter [
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,
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,
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]. He was even able to catch itachi out a few times in the edo fight (itachis resolve to catch him has nothing to do with getting sliced) Also note the "!!" in itachis caption incinuates that he was aware of kabutos move and despite his high level sharingan he wasnt able to evade it.
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So this just proves that analyzing the situation and having the feats to counter upcoming events arnt everything.
If kabutos liquid snake skin is able to baffle itachi like that. Whos to say he cant do the exact same thing this time and do a sneak atttack using hiding like a mole tech. By merging that and many snakes technique, even if itachis in susano'o he will either get hit from the ground or jump up leaving the bottom of susano'o completely exposed. This gives kabuto a chance to then take action. You underestimate kabutos knowledge and battle analysis. Lets not forget that alive itachi knew nothing of kabutos techs either so he would be in the same boat as nagato. No knowledge on kabuto mean advantage for my team.
Itachis stamina despite being sick is a bit higher than expected but what is amatarasu going to do in this fight? both foes have a way to evade it and can also counter it. The web i spoke about earlier force itachi to use amatarasu and seing as he can only use it a couple of time its no good. Since genjutsu is the best way to capture your opponant we have to assume that kabuto was strong enough to escape his dusk crown ect. please not that you have to have good chakra control to break genjutsu. If kabutos in SM this is within itself proof that he has the chakra control sufficient to break out of it because. Remember genjutsu still uses chakra and SM can sense chakra and if kabuto can sense the chances he can effectively break out.
Itachi did have enough chakra to bring out susanoo and seal orochimaru but that all he had chakra for. After that stab he gave oro he couldnt do much and soon after could barely walk. Even zetsu said using this suano'o in his weakneed state is a risk in itself
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and since he ran out of hakra around about the time hebi sasuke did, its safe to assume he has the same amount of stamina that hebi sasuke has if not just a bit more. This particular illness fatigue cause his susano'o to flicker in and out of protecction and as a result susano'o may become weaker at times making it easier to break.
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Also not that itachi had to block himself from the paper bombs which may convey the idea that his suano'o at that point wasnt enough to block it. In saying that, this is the perfect moment for kabuto to strike when his defences are weak.
Also in the susano'o scan u provided. i can see that MS isnt activated while susano'o is up which means he was running very low on chakra and he knew that he coulnt keep it up for long. but preserving chakra at this stage in the kabuto fight would be futile since it only makes him more of a sitting duck.
It wouldnt be hard to fight with his eyes closed because he got through the edo fight just fine with his eyes closed through a portion of it. and as i said he he gets hit with exploding clones he can do orochimaru stye body replacement/snake skin to get out of it after or before it hits.
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Here itachi is shown to be hit and fooled by a simple shuriken attack that sasuke threw. Zetsu himself staed he should of been able to dodge it but due to his illness his reflexes and movement as well as his ability to analyse the situation is donwgraded. Everything isnt as sharp as it should be for itachi. This is a huge disadvantage for itachi.
Nagato, bit of itachi, gedo mazo and animal path
Manda towers over his summonings and can crush each one with his body alone and plus the speed that all snakes have shown so far.
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Look at the size difference. Manda v2 was enough to tip an island that towers over Gedo maz, this just shows that manda as incredible agility as well as size so he could do something similar to gedo mazo and trip it over, giving every enemy to attack it while its down. Manda can effectively solo all the animals.
The acid in a snakes stomach breaks down particles at a faster rate than humans and so even if the dog multiplies. IF hes in mandas digestive system, hes not coming back from that.
To answer your totsuka point quickly with the scan i provided of manda. Sure size is an issue for manda and the only reason why itachi sealed oros sanke is because it was mobile and wasnt aware of totsuka in the first place. Kabuto knows about totsuka and Manda v2 isnt mobile.
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This form is mainly like a hydra. Its main body is mobile while its heads attack but manda is completely different.
Human path
Snakes can sense heat and smell with their tongues so regardless wheather nagato goes invisible is ineffective
Asura path
My scan about kabuto dodging susano'o arrow and reflexes negate this point your making. If he can dodge that and evade amatarasu then asura path wont be a problem at all.
Itachis suano'o arm cut off nagatos asura arms so they are obviously not as durable as you think.
Deva path
If naruto can think quick enough to evade banshou tenins doings what makes you think that kabuto cant evade it? ho wis nagato going to react when a bunch of many shadow snakes are lunging towards him. IF he increases the force he is hastening the inevitable. Like i said invisibility isnt a factor on kabuto since he senses heat. If kabuto does get hit with a shina tensei there is not a doubt in my mind that he will survive due to a snakes properties. This is where kabuto would shine the most. He can do what hebi sasuke did to trick itachi and use shed skin ability to get away. only this time kabuto uses that and then hiding like a mole technique to strike itachi. And like ive stressed alot in this debate that itachi cannot see through the shed skin ability as so nagato wont know either.
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Itachi didnt even know here that it was the snake skin because he went closer to check if he was alive. Both him and zetsu were convinced that sasuke was defeated.
This is proof once again that he cannot see through kabutos techs.
Outer path
That may contributed to his lack of movement but because he summoned gezo mazo and turned marga this is turn drained his muscles too which he was later put into a casket, because he couldnt move so summoning it would be a last resort.
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As you can see the only way to control any form of gedo mazo/juubi is to use your own body to detain it. ITs connected to his back which makes him no better than a trapped rat. This also puts him in alot of pain and thats one of the reasons why he wont use it so quickly. Even after the demonic statue was detached, he wasnt really able to move.
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Danzo argument
Lets not forget that kabuto has no problem taking on two foes at once so he can assist danzo as and when he needs it.The shuriken wont be a problem since he can use vaccum sphere/bullet to blow them away.
Im aware of itachis gen abilities but we need to remember that izanagi makes you invincible regardless of genjutsu so ultimately he can escape it. The part your talking about is when karin was timing and analysing how long it took izanagi to end. It was when it ended is when he was put under gen to make him think that he had more izanagi. Dazno, knowing his opponent will activate izanaga pretty soon and will not allow itachi to trap him in genjutsu.lets not forget danzo was not aware of sasukes gen abilities which was his fault but he knows of itachis gen. Itachi is known for gen and because of that danzo will be prepared and use izanagi from the stat. Because itachi staggers while he uses susano'o his susano'o will flicker and he will stop like i shown on the itachi vs sasuke scan. so he wont be using amatarasu as well due to massive chakra consumption and illness. Danzo will crash through susano'o in that time it takes itachi to even recover a bit. Though if itachi does use ammy or katon i admit baku is finished.
Knowing a tech and knowing how to evade a tech are two different things Naruto was able to escape Banshō Ten'in due to his chakra arm [
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] and Kabuto doesn't have a chakra arm and as I stated before Kabuto won't be able to react quickly as he won't see it coming and the method you used fot attempting to escape this jutsu is futile especially as Nagato can increase the force making Kabuto be hardly able to move his body [
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] then finish him with Kyūkon no Jutsu [
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]. The dusk crow point you used is invalid because by that logic Kyuubi Mode Naruto can use Mini Rasen Shuriken and he would have done it against edo Nagato or edo Itachi, that logic doesn't work. Plus Kabuto is terrified of Rinnegan users as Obito who hasn't shown any mastery of the Rikudō no Jutsu [
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And Kabuto wouldn't even know about Finger Genjutsu or Dusk Crow as he would find out to late that he is in the genjutsu as Itachi doesn't even need eye contact to get you under the jutsu [
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] and while Kabuto is stuck under the illusion, in the real world Itachi can hit him with a Yasaka Magatama. Itachi was unaware because this was a cave were Kabuto has the advantage as he can control the rocks as the location was an advantage for Kabuto and on a open mountain it will be completely different plus you are forgetting Itachi's bushin feints
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] which are unpredictable and Kabuto has no knowledge on all of Itachi's arsenal which can be his downfall here.
You overrate Sage Mode's sensing abilities if that was true why couldn't Kabuto sense Inzanami if he can "sense genjutsu"? And as I stated Itachi has the ability to put his opponent under genjutsu without them even realizing as seen [
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- [
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]. Yes Itachi was weakened because he was dying of illness but you forget that Kabuto has nothing to put a scratch on Itachi's Susano'o with Yata Mirror. Yata Mirror nullifies attacks [
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] and also you talk about Kabuto destroying a complete Susano'? Kabuto has nothing in his arsenal powerful enough to destroy a Susano'o.
The snake skin consumes alot of chakra and Kabuto wouldn't be wise if he used it more than twice in this battle and Itachi isn't a fool if he sees a technique used once he would discover its weaknesses in a short period of time as he has demonstrated before:
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Countering Nagato, a bit of Itachi, Gedo Mazo and Animal Path:
Size doesn't matter just because Manda V2 is big doesn't mean it can defeat Gedo Mazo, Gedo Mazo has shown to have destructive attacks and how will Manda be able to deal with Gedo Mazo and animal summonings at the same time? Especially when Gedo Mazo can do this:
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and you said Manada can squash all the summons squashing the Multiplying dog is useless as it will keep on Multiplying [
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]. Kabuto knows nothing about Totsuka or its ability and Totsuka can extend to reach its target like so:
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Manda soloing all the animals? Manda is very slow and there is no way he can take on all the animals that the three boss toads had trouble dealing with and not only Manda would be surrounded by the Giant Drill-Beaked Bird,Giant Multi-Headed Dog, Giant Snake-Tailed Chameleon, Giant Panda, Giant Ox, Giant Rhino, Giant Crustacean and Giant Centipede but Manda wouldn't even be able to see the Giant Chameleon [
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], yet alone defeat it.
Asura Path:
Itachi caught Nagato off guard [
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] and Kabuto hasn't got anything strong enough to destroy Asura hands quickly and once grabbed will be blown apart by Shura no Kō.
Human Path:
Being able to sense doesn't matter if you can't react quick enough because sensing doesn't matter if you can't stop this:
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And as I said before once touched by Human Path, Kabuto can't wiggle out his soul will be stolen and he will be dead.
Deva Path:
Naruto had knowledge on Bansho Ten'in, Kabuto has no idea how to counter this technique and shadow snakes get dealt with via Asura Path missiles [
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-
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]. Nagato is a sensor and would be able to realize about the snake skin plus shared vision would help him find Kabuto:
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Danzo Argument:
You severely underrate Nagato and Itachi especially as Nagato can deal with Kabuto and Itachi has the tools to defeat Kabuto and Kabuto taking them both on is a death wish. The shuriken are Katon enhanced and Katon>Fuuton and remember that Inzanagi drains alot of chakra from Danzo and you are forgetting that Itachi has knowledge on Inzanagi and he is a better analyst than Karin [
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]. Also Itachi's genjutsu> Sasuke's genjutsu and as seen here:
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And Itachi has multiple ways to kill Danzo ten times by using his Susano'o fists, Explosive Bushins, Katons and Shurikenjutsu plus with Nagato assisting him they can get the job done. Knowing about genjutsu and countering it is to different things Danzo won't be able to counter Tsukuyomi or Demonic Illusion: Shackling Stakes Technique as they only require eye contact to trap the opponent.
I can see this becoming repetitive so this should be our last couple posts
Countering Kabuto and nagato
Yes i have already explained how kabuto Counters banshou tenin He can use Many striking shadown snake to put nagato in a 2 way dilemma
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If your telling me he will still suck out kabutos soul whilst getting hit by this they your gravely mistaken as he will risk getting severly damaged and maybe even poisoned.
And i think they are able to move enough in order to pull off a sealess jutsu such as Many shadow snake hands. and as i shown you in the yamato vs oro scan. They bit him which means he was aimin got poison hi in some way. Nagato will be lucky if he escapes it because if hes increasing the gravity, all it means is your getting pulled in faster. This makes it easier for kabuto to hit nagato as a result if you think about it in logical terms. Naruto didnt see it coming either but he was still able to evade it was he not? in your logic no one can dodge it apart from naruto. and even if kabuto were to get captured he can easily do a orochimaru body replacement to get out of it. But thats just an alternativve way to escape but the first option consumes less chakra and is more effective.
And your scan proves very little because at this time kabuto was sceming and needed obito to carry out his plan, plus he knew it would be difficult to fight. That is why he said "ill be in trouble if i fight the rinnegan here" because fighting may endanger their trust thus kabutos plans being ruined. If he were as scared as you say he was then he would of questioned obito in the first place.
Kabuto and itachi
My question is, why didnt itachi use dusk crow or finger genjutsu against kabuto to initially catch him and save the uchiha the hassle. Its because he couldn't. as i have said you need very good control of your chakra and as jiraiya said: the better your chakra control, the easier it is to break out of genjutsu". Because kabuto is both a medic and a sage this is common knowledge to him and plus being in SM increases Genjutsu ability and senses so yes even if itachi were to cast dusk crow or finger gen he cna break out of it. Its not impossible to break out of itachis genjutsu as shown by hebi sassuke when he broke out of one of the strongest eye techs tsuokyomi. Izanami is a completely different tech and is called as Kinjutsu not genjutsu anymore as itachi states so its no wonder he couldnt break out of it. It controls your brain directly.
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Even if he cantminipulate object liek he did in the cave. By doing this, itachi is forced to stay in the air and we both know itachi cant fly. Plus i havent even got onto dance of the seedling tech yet. If he done that as well as object minipulation there is a gaurantee itachi will get hit.
Ive already shown you that not even itachis sharingan can keep up with liquifying skin tech
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Even itachi will have to gamble on where kabuto would have to be and because he is a sharingan user he is also somewhat of a sensory type. Itachi isnt aware of all of kabutos abilities either but kabuto , unlike itachi has the speed to dodge sudden attacks AND analyse the situation as well as itachi.
You seem to forget that yata only protects from the front so the back and the bottom (mostly the bottom) are most vulerable. Kabuto won tnecessarily even have to break it because like ive already proved itachi cant have susano'o up for long and it would be foolish for itachi to bring out susano'o at the beginning of the fight ~AND use MS techs because that would be a waste of chakra. at not one point did i say kabuto destroys susano'o i said he attacks from the bottom, since itachis susano'o has no bottom.
It takes up a lot of chakra but in SM he has a better supply of chakra and was able to do it multiple times in the fight as shown in previous scans. He even stated he had surpassed orochimaru which incinuates he could do most things better than orochimaru. Orochimaru was shown to literally spam Body replacement (which takes about the same amout of chakra consumption)) in 4 tails fight and yet he was sick at the time so what makes you think kabuto cant use it way more times than a sick orochimaru?
Itachi would not be able to see its weakness since he said (and i cant stress this enough) not even his sharingan could tell where kabuto was. the scan you provided is taken out of context since its a offensive move and there was a obvious weakpoint. someone of itachis calibur can figure it out. Not even madaras sharingan can detect everything as shown her
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Countering Nagato, a bit of Itachi, Gedo Mazo and Animal Path:
Manda V1 Has shown incredible speed feats against katusyas acid and because its a spread out move and so much comes out of her mouth it spewed everywhere. You would need good speed ot get out of that.
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And manda v2 is supposed to be an enhanced and better version on manda 1 so in theory he is supposed to be flexible enough to dodge that attack, and if he can t it wont do as much damagae as it does to humans. snake skin is more durable and can take many more hits than humans.
The size of manda and the size of them are not even in the same leauge. If sakura could kill a summon in one punch then why cant manda blitz the summonings with a fast swipe of his tail? And as for the dog summon i said he would digest him not physically hurt him.
Asura path
He caught nagato off gaurd with a dust cloud, this is just proving how easy it is to catch nagato off gaurd. Kabuto can use this to his advantage. And whos to say hes going to get grabbed? he knows of asura paths hands and his intelect is more than naruto and bee so hes going to know to keep his distance. as i have shown his reflexes are on point.
Human path
If he can sense before he does the jutsu or even moves then he can react fast enough. Again, kabuto has shown resilience and skill that are able to just about evade amatarasu so why cant he dodge that tech? anytime nagato has been to pull someones soul out they are mobile.
Deva path
And why not? he was controling nagato at the time and was using his techs and they way nagato fought was kabutos doing. and the missles aren't going to be activated because he wont expect the snakes to come up so he wouldnt have asura activated and it takes a bit of prep to activate anyway.
So the animals are going to find him Underground? they wont even know hes there they will most probably look on the surface.
Animal path
He can use dance of the seedling to destroy most of the land animals as well as use this against itachi and nagato. This is usefull since all the bones consist of chakra so not even the sharingan will predict where kabuto will come from since every bone will have chakra inside.
Danzo argument
Its weak to katon but it can slow down the speed of the shuriken and then evade them . thats if they don't completely halt still ablaze.
It drain a lot of chakra but he can use very single on and still use powerful techniques like serial vaccum wave. and like you said knowing a tecch and countering it are two different things. He can use it effectively as well as the curse mark on itachi.
I agree he got caught in gen but that was after his izanagi finished. He used gen to make danzo think he had more time after it finished. He couldn't do it during izanagi because it will just make it like it never happened at all. That danzo will basically be dead and another will spawn. hes invincible when he uses it.
Sasuke used susano'o fist but look how that turned out? he had izanagi activated.
Again genjutsu is useless WHILST izanagi is activated
Banshō Ten'in is a technique which you require high speed to counter which Kabuto doesn't and really many striking shadow snake get dealt with like this:
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As growing Asura Path arms doesn't take extremely long or Nagato can just fire his Asura arm:
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Again with the Orochimaru-Style Body Replacement Technique? You do realize that this technique consumes alot of chakra? Right as Sasuke only had a little amount of chakra left after using this technique and Orochimaru had to retreat against Four Tailed Naruto shortly after using this technique, and Kabuto can't afford to waste chakra against opponents such as Nagato and Itachi as that is just a death wish. Plus Nagato has other jutsu to take Kabuto down, plus you like to talk alot about Kabuto's sensing abilities Nagato is a skilled sensor himself.
Countering Kabuto and Itachi:
If you are not of Uchiha blood you cannot counter Tsukuyomi which is why Kakashi told Kurenai and Asuma to close their eyes [
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] and as stated by Itachi [
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] and if Itachi puts Kabuto under that its game over and you talk about Kabuto keeping his eyes closed against the Uchiha bros his eyes weren't closed throughout the entire fight [
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], and Sasuke faced a weaker version of Tsukuyomi which is why he was able to break out the way he did and with that "the better your chakra control, the easier it is to break out of genjutsu" argument is poor because if that was the case Orochimaru who has great chakra control would have been able to break out of Itachi's genjutsu [
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] plus your acting like Itachi will stand there and wait for him to counter the genjutsu he will obviously be on the offensive [
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]. Also being placed under Tsukuyomi makes the victim suffer psychological trauma that incapacitates them for a considerable period of time like it did to Kakashi and Sasuke [
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].
And again with the Susano'o arugment? He couldn't keep Susano'o up for long because he used a taxing amount of chakra using multiple Mangekyō Sharingan techniques before bringing out Susano'o who's to say he can't keep Susano'o up for longer without using a huge amount of chakra consuming techs.
You underestimate Itachi's analyze skills if he has seen a jutsu before he won't get baffled by it again or he can quickly come up with a counter as every jutsu has a weakness. [
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].
Dance of the seedling for the last time can be countered by Nagato levitating and taking it out with a chou Shinra Tensei or Itachi's Susano'o can tank it:
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Kabuto attacking from the bottom won't do a thing as Kabuto has no idea what Susano'os weakness is and really no bottom:
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The scan with Madara is a terrible example as Madara was facing multiple opponents so its quite obivous that it is going to be a bit too much for him. Plus you are forgetting Itachi's explosive bushins, crow clones feint and extremely quick jutsu speed which was too much for even a Sharingan user to keep up with [
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] and [
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] plus Kabuto showed his full arsenal against Itachi while Itachi didn't use all his moves against Kabuto and Itachi always has tricks up his sleeve. Plus Itachi's taijutsu is also good as he has a 4.5 rating in the databook and he has outclassed Sasuke who copied Rock Lee's Taijutsu skills with his Sharingan and went through a completely Taijutsu training with ease [
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].
Countering Nagato, a bit of Itachi, Gedo Mazo and Animal Path:
Kabuto said Manda II is bigger, stronger, and has far more acute senses than the original, never did he state that Manda II is faster also how are you comparing Katsyuu's acid to Gedo Mazo's Chakra blast which is much quicker and even the Gedo Mazo's shockwave was strong enough to blow Chouza and Chouji in their expanding forms away with ease [
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] plus are you telling me Manda II is fast enough to dodge this:
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Sakura was trained by Tsunade in chakra enhancing her strength for two and a half years and you can't make that judgement based upon what happened to one summon and yes while digesting the dog the other summons are just going to wait there... NO!!! They will attack will he is in the middle of eating the dog and as I said before Manda II can't take on all the summons at once and Itachi and Nagato can help defeat Manda II with Totsuka Blade or a Shinra Tensei or a simple touch from Nagato can activate his Kyūkon no Jutsu to remove Manda's soul.
Asura Path:
It wasn't a dusk cloud it was a huge explosion this proves nothing as you forget that while Nagato's summons are on the field he has shared vision [
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] and even Kabuto expressed shock off how Itachi's shurikenjutsu was able to hit the blind spots of Nagato's Shared Vision [
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].
Human Path:
If your theory was right how comes Kabuto couldn't sense Inzanami? How comes Kabuto couldn't sense Susano'o fist? He is able to sense Amaterasu but that doesn't mean he can dodge it with that logic thats like saying because Nagato can sense Amaterasu he can dodge it no. When Kabuto is as fast as V2 Ay then he will be able to dodge it as Kabuto has shown reflexes to react to Susano'o Arrow but you are forgetting Amaterasu is faster and what in Kabuto's arsenal is fast enough to react to Amaterasu? Also Nagato can use distractions before using Human Path and once touched you can't operate your body properly:
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Deva Path:
So Nagato is going to see snakes come towards him and do absolutely nothing? And no it doesn't requires prep [
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] and [
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], and if Kabuto appears from underground and the animals see him Nagato will release as they have shared vision.
Animal Path:
I have already told you dance of the seedling as Levitation and Chou Shinra Tensei will be able to destroy it and also you are forgetting that most of Nagato's summons can fly plus Itachi can tank it with Susano'o.
Countering Danzo Argument:
You are forgetting that he has to touch Itachi the place the curse mark on him and Itachi isn't reckless as Sasuke and won't go charging in and you say Danzo can slow down the shuriken can he slow down shuriken this quick [
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] plus don't underestimate Itachi's clone feints they can be very useful during diversions:
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Danzo was caught in Sasuke's Tsukuyomi [
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] and as I stated keeping Inzanagi active for long consumes Danzo's chakra [
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], and Danzo hasn't got great control over mokuton and against Itachi who already has knowledge on Inzanagi is a bad chocie especially when Danzo has to try control Hashirama's DNA and keep Inzanagi active and Karin was able to find out its weakness quite quickly Itachi can find it out much quicker and use the elemental advantage in his favor.
Yes but Susano'o fist was able to take multiple of Danzo's lives and with explosive bushins plus shurikenjutsu should be enough to take Danzo's lives then finish the real Danzo with a Susano'o grab.
Plus Nagato is assisting Itachi and can deal with Danzo with Asura arrows and summons to overwhelm him.
This will be my final post so I will contact the judges and let them judge.
Interesting Ways to counter the Rikudo Jutsu Sub-Division Techniques
Didn't Like
Grammar! (Won't judge based on this)
Underestimating Itachi's Genjutsu Capabilities, and Itachi as a whole at times
Overestimating Manda v2
Improving
Utilize Kaguya Clan KKG more
Hozuki Clan KKG could have been used more effectively - Kabuto can go near invisible and "camouflage" with enviroment
Izuna Kakashi Senju
Liked
Utilization of non-Mangekyo Sharingan Techniques that Itachi has
Application into a more "Real-Life" Scenario
Countering almost all Danzo points
Didn't Like
Underestimating Kabuto's Full Potential (Without Edo Tensei)
Not Utilizing Enough Teamwork
Improving
More Teamwork
Abusing Nagato's Chakra Levels & Rinne Tensei wasn't restricted so you could have utilized this as well
Both players played a generally passive debate with neither making too many big offensives or defensive's. It was an interesting debate. You guys both did well and it's really close, but I think overall IKS won. This was mostly due to him utilizing more of non-powerhouse techniques. TTS, you forgot to utilize some but you guys both did well.
I really liked your opening and how you went straight to the point regarding dsm kabuto and his advantages over Itachi's jutsu like using hydrification as a way to confuse Itachi because as shown in the DSM kabuto and uchiha bro fight Itachi was confused when all those kabuto mini clones appeared before him so i like that detail you pointed out. I also like how you went into Kabutos medical recovery and how he wont be really injured.
But when you said Itachi can only use Sussano 2-3 times at best seemed iffy to me, it sounds like you didn't really take into account of Itachi amazing chakra control that he has shown in the manga. I also like how you went straight to the point regarding itachis sussano arrow and amaterasu and how DSM kabuto has already shown the capabilities to dodge them. I also disagree regarding your apart about itachi falling victim to muki tensei when clearly if you go to the page before that
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But i do agree with you that muki tensei will be a dangerous technique for itachi and nagato.
While i see your point regarding DSM kabutos spider web abilities you didn't take into account of Itachi slicing them with his sussano sword.
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and the bones are said to be hard as steel so I dont see the point of amaterasu being used when he can use his sussano to cut the webs. But maybe the sussano won't be capable of cutting the webs.. either way i think you didnt really take into consideration of the other possibilities that Itachi has to cut the webs.
I agree with some of your counters for the pains (nagato) but i dont really think you put into consideration of their teamwork. It seemed to me you that you were feeling that the pains would attack 1 by 1 and not try to overpower the your team but still i agree with most of your points. But yeah i really liked your explanations for defeating the pains.
Regarding your danzo argument for Itachi I think you were really underrating Itachi in a few cases and didnt really acknowledge his power and abilities.
I am not done explaining myself i will now go over izuna kakahi senju's counter
I like the opening of your counter and how quickly you went over the capabilities of Itachi and nagato together and i loved how you gave a short explanation on Itachis analyzing skills as shown in the edo nagato fight and how he is capable of figuring out his opponents weaknesses.
I like how you covered Itachis chakra control capability as it was demonstrated in the sasuke fight. I like how you mixed in his clone feints and his hand seal speed make sit even more deadly. Itachi already showed that he can clone feint DSM kabuto when they were fighting. But regarding Itachi using his crimson shuriken up close at kabuto i fill like you didn't really take into consideration of kabutos Body shedding technique or his fast recovery.
I really liked your counter to DSM kabutos spider web with the conjunction of Itachi and nagato abilities thus being able to counter it. I like how you were constantly making them work together. Nice job going over nagatos use of levitating and pulling off a large scale shinrei tensei.
Even though i liked Thetailedsage's explanation for defeating the pains i really liked your counters and they sounded very convincing and legit. Your whole counter was pretty solid and backed up
Overall this was a good debate but in the end i have to go with Izuna kakashi senju . Izuna simply went into more detail with his teams capabilities and really made nagato and itachi work together to overcome DSM kabuto and thetailsage i feel as though you could had gone in a lot more. Izuna simply provided more solid arguments and all his posts sounded very convincing. @the tailedsage i feel you could had gone more into danzo's abilities like his baku summon being a counter to nagato or deva pain levitating in the air and the baku summon can use his vacuum air power to draw them in from the air. I didnt see you say this but if you did i apologize.
In the end the tailedsage put up a good fight i have to give it to izuna.
rince Charles,-6 Paths- and Centipede
