Debate: Orochimaru [NSUNSR] vs Deidara [Zexion]
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Zexion~
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Deidara
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True art is sublime
[video=youtube;5plk8eNHMHU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5plk8eNHMHU[/video]
Lets get the explosions started.
Firstly i'm going to get the action going with a tactic that isn't all that uncommon. Deidara will start by using the tactic he used against Sasuke which is placing mines underneath the ground
C1's
While mainly to be used as nuisances they can actually play a key role in this fight. Thins is Oro has no low-scale defense he can continuously count on that doesn't drain his chakra. He has the Rashoman and his Body Regen. Unless timed perfectly Rashoman could honestly be avoided by the C1's.
C2's
First let me state right away that the dragon doesn't have to be made on the ground, he's already shown the ability to create things with instant flight
C4
Okay, here comes the controversy "Oro is now a plant, Plant's don't breath like humans do" This is wrong for multiple reasons, first off if he acquired oxygen exactly like a plant, he'd be immobile almost during the night which we've both seen isn't true (Final Battle Arc). Plants not only use photosynthesis to acquire oxygen but they also use the same thing humans do in cellular respiration. So there is literally no reason to attribute Oro with the lack of breathing for having a zetsu body. In the end he's still a snake :lol whether resting in another dimension or not oxygen still needs to be provided. This jutsu also completely negates Oro's special body replacement technique. As of course there would be nothing left to reproduce. Its range is vast and oro is most likely not going to avoid it nor have the time even with intel.
Anyways these are just the basics the real stuff comes after you make your mistake.
Firstly i'm going to get the action going with a tactic that isn't all that uncommon. Deidara will start by using the tactic he used against Sasuke which is placing mines underneath the ground
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(X). Except this time instead of having Tobi place the mines he'll have a clone remain up on the ground and he himself will place the mines. It only took Tobi a fairly quick time to place the mines
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Seeing as this is Oro who likes to play around with his opponents at first anyways he'd have ample enough time to do this whether Oro notices or not. Tbh depending on how you go after this it could even give me a greater advantage. the ability to use clones
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and the ability to get underground
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has already been shown by Deidara Meaning he doesn't need Tobi's help and this strategy is honestly extremely useful in this battle. Now if you think he needs to make the C2 Dragon to do this you're wrong as he can easily create the mines from his own hands while blitzing around underground placing them. I'll ignore the Oro V.S Clone thing until you decide what you're going to have Oro do, however what makes this strategy absolutely devastating in this battle is that Oro is only at top speed when slithering along the ground.
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. This means that unlike normal shinobi who would only set off one mine, at max two with their feet he has the possibility to set off several. Meaning that when avoiding Deidara's other explosives become that much harder.
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C1's
While mainly to be used as nuisances they can actually play a key role in this fight. Thins is Oro has no low-scale defense he can continuously count on that doesn't drain his chakra. He has the Rashoman and his Body Regen. Unless timed perfectly Rashoman could honestly be avoided by the C1's.
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They are agile enough to maneuver around the summoning wall
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, making for a wasted effort that does nothing but deplete chakra, and then assuming they hit him after avoiding it would mean he'd need more chakra to grow a new body as they've shown enough damage capabilities to blow off limbs should they hit.
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(skulls actually strongest part of the body basically). Seeing as Oro body regens every time he loses a limb
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the C1's can actually cause quite a bit of trouble for him themselves. Also don't forget he can input different amounts of chakra to make the moving birds faster
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These Keep Oro on his toes, which is bad for him due to the mines placed all around. Even a normal batch of C1's rained upon Oro would move him into the mines.
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They can be used differently depending on what you have Oro do as well. C2's
First let me state right away that the dragon doesn't have to be made on the ground, he's already shown the ability to create things with instant flight
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No reason the dragon can't do the same. In fact it could be stated that he doesn't even have to get on the much slower dragon as he's shown that his bombs can maneuver perfectly on their own
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I don't see why he could remotely control the dragon from a much quicker bird allowing the C2's to fire without him actually being slowed down and what have you. This is significant because a blitz from the Kusunagi is more deadly on the slower, low to the ground dragon. But that is now avoided. Anyways by all rights Sasuke is > Orochimaru in terms of speed, whether you want to look at hype or feats. Yet Sasuke was being cornered by C2 and the mines. He actually needed to resort to Curse Mark defense in order to block it and this was only because his certain CM gave him a good structure for it (Wing). Now I know you think Oro could probably use summoning to block such a thing, but don't forget in order to use the summon Oro has to do one thing....and that's slap his palm on the good ol mine infested ground. Yes there is a chance he could be safe from it, however if luck is not on his side and he does strike a mine his face being so close to the ground ultimately ends that body of his. The stronger variants of C2 (remember he can up their speed by inputting chakra) can flat out blitz Oro in fact, as they did so against a faster Sasuke, who literally could do nothing but alter his wing
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This added combination of land and air explosives, will prove to be costly for Orochimaru. C4
Okay, here comes the controversy "Oro is now a plant, Plant's don't breath like humans do" This is wrong for multiple reasons, first off if he acquired oxygen exactly like a plant, he'd be immobile almost during the night which we've both seen isn't true (Final Battle Arc). Plants not only use photosynthesis to acquire oxygen but they also use the same thing humans do in cellular respiration. So there is literally no reason to attribute Oro with the lack of breathing for having a zetsu body. In the end he's still a snake :lol whether resting in another dimension or not oxygen still needs to be provided. This jutsu also completely negates Oro's special body replacement technique. As of course there would be nothing left to reproduce. Its range is vast and oro is most likely not going to avoid it nor have the time even with intel.
Anyways these are just the basics the real stuff comes after you make your mistake.
Had a busy week so the time limit rushed me a bit, my next posts will most certainly be longer and more in depth.
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NSUNSR
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Counter
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Ok, so before i counter Zexion's post, i will first discuss three important factors, which Zexion ignored, because he undermined Orochimaru too much. These three factors are: Intel, Sensing abilities, and Underground movement
Intel:
A big difference, between Orochimaru and Deidara here is the background knowedge. While, Deidara may have only gotten some basic information from Sasori, and some little information from due to Orochimaru's infamous actions, and his Legendary Sanin title, Orochimaur almost complete knowedge on Deidara's abilities. After being absorbed by Sasuke, Orochimaru's
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This means, that Orochimaru, was also aware of Sasuke's fight with Deidara, and can recognise every jutsu, which Sasuke encountered against Deidara, including Clay Clones, C1, C2, C4, and landmines.Sensing abilities:
Orochimaru also has some impressive sensory abilities. To begin with,
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He was able to
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, and can even differentiate clones from the original. (
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) - (
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) - (
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). Furthermore, Orochimauru now has Zetsu's body, who is known to be an excellent sensor, and combined with Orochimaru's sensing abilities, this easily makes Orochimaru a top sensor.Underground Movement:
Orochimaru has multiple ways to travel underground. Firstly he has the
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ability, just like Deidara, but that doesn't end it, because with his newly acquired body, he can now also use mayfly. On top of letting the user travel with incredible speed, this technique also completely conceals ones existence, and even sensors can not locate him. This is shown, when 5 kages, and their bodygards, some of which are sensors like C,
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. So not only does Orochimauru has a new faster jutsu for travelling underground, but it also makes him completely hidden from the enemy.Now that this has been established, i can debunk, all of your arguments.
To prevent Deidra from placing bombs around, Orochimaru can create a spore clone of himself, and tell him to go underground and kill Deidara's clone. With full knowedge on these mines, it wouldn't be strange if Orochimaru does so, though even without it, it would be pretty obvious what Deidara is trying to do, especially for a genious like Orochimaru. Orochimaru can further hide his clone, by using
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. The clone can then travel underground via Mayfly. Orochimaru's clone has two advantages over Deidara's clone here. Firstly its presence will stay hidden from Deidara's clone, and it can also track Deidara's clone location. Orochimaru's clone will find Deidara's clone, kill him, and then
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out of any placed bombs around. Now that your stragedy has been debunked, finishing off Deidara will become a lot easier.Knowing Deidara well, and seeing the way your stragedy goes, Deidara will indeed try to kill Orochimaru by using C1 at first, just like he
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.Avoiding all of Deidara's attacks, shouldn't be a problem for someone like Orochimaru. Orochimaru was able to react to and
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while in midair. He was able to easily anticipate and dodge
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, and all of these have been in done in his base form, when
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. Even if he does get hit by a bomb, Orochimaru has a
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, which was even able to protect him from an attack as
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. Furthermore, this technique isn't a one use only, as it is seen here, when Orochimaru, instantly gets back his protective layer of skin. (
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) - (
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). Soon enough Deidara will realize, that he has to use C2, and fly away, but unfortunately for him, he will stopped in his tracks.This is where the fight ends, because of your stragedy. This is so, because other than Orochimaru himself, there is also a spore clone traveling underground with his hidden presense. Before Deidara takes flight, the clone uses Snake Glare to catch Deidara from underground and restrain him. A single snake was able to
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before melting down, and after getting his new body, the snakes were even able to
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, so Deidara isn't freeing himself. Using clay clones to trick Orochimaru will not work, as i have already shown, that he can recognise clones from the original. After Deidara has been caught the real Orochimaru, fastly
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.With your stragedy, this battle ends here, and there is no reason to counter the rest of your arguments. I will give you the chance to make,a new better stragedy, which might actually be difficult for Orochimaru to cope with. Orochimaru doesn't even need summonings in this situation, so i really hope that you do better in your next post.
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Zexion~
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As I said I was rushed, I'm fairly free for this one and just want to get into a real debate.
Intel:
Uh, you're forgetting the very important factor that he already did battle with Sasuke, knowing all so well that he's Oro's copycat almost. So he's going to know of all the snake jutsu in his arsenal. Then there is also the fact that Deidara had stated on numerous occasions that he was the one who wanted to take down Orochimaru
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and he's shown that when he plans on fighting someone he comes with a plan which = Intel. Shown how he made a jutsu designed specifically to defeat another one of his opponents whom he planned to kill,
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. Seeing as he replaced Oro, him having only the most basic of intel is almost laughable. Meanwhile Oro having intel on Deidara's jutsu doesn't really hurt him all that much, as the main weakness still can't be exploited.Sensing abilities:
Uhhh, I'm fairly certain Zetsu was never portrayed to be adept at sensing, at least white Zetsu wasn't. Anyways as for the snake sensing thing, sure his snakes can but unless he is in his true form i'm not sold on the fact that he could. The sensing of snakes is hinged entirely on their structure. The sensing of snakes is done only through the activation of body heat from the opponent (which debunks some of your claims below) entering in through the holes in the snakes structure called "pit organs". Its a protein channel, so it has to physically happen...now I don't know if you have visible blindness or anything but you can clearly see Oro, has no openings on his face for any such reaction to happen. No already present orifices won't work, because as I said its a brand new organ that is directly connected to the brain in a certain pattern/structure that would make the addition in a humanoid nearly impossible. Yes his true form more than likely has it but since he resides in another dimension unless he wants to make himself extremely vulnerable he'd best keep that there.
Yes Oro's snake summons can sense the heat but alas i'm fairly sure there isn't a mental link between the two :lol so he won't be specifically aware of any locations, but in the end as i've low key already proven above it doesn't matter here.
Underground Movement:
Uhhh
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Continously streaming chakra from your face only is something I don't think that's been shown, don't trust the wiki. It was more than likely that he merely ripped through the ground with his sword.
Its a retreat and appear technique, as what everyone likes to forget is that it takes quite some time, to actually merge with the ground before you travel at such a high speed
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Which means its not going to be used to avoid any attacks. Its a retreat and traveling technique. People hype it like it can be used in battle strategically, however against an opponent who is always going to be coming at you like Deidara its useless. Yes I know how you're going to try and use this and no it won't work :lol.Btw just as a heads up, I highly recommend next time using a character you don't acquire 99% of your arguments and knowledge from a fanboy exploit page. There is a high concentration of bullshit.
Mongrel worthy argument
:Lol what is this? The spore clones are originally spores,
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that eventually balloon into a clone by absorbing ones chakra
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you can't just spawn a clown made entirely of spores, or at least it hasn't been shown. You could use a zetsu clone but those have literally been stated to be pathetic and much too weak for battle
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so there isn't much it could do really, don't go thinking because its Oro the ability itself becomes stronger, that is literally wank and doesn't even resonate a hint of logic. Its a zetsu ability to copy the chakra nature of another perfectly, that's all Oro knows so that is all Oro gets. Not that it really matters though as how would that kill anyone? Hiding like a mole lets you sense whats going on around you (read databook scan above) so he'll know when and where whatever Oro sends down is coming. (Can't be a spore clone as i've shown, and normal zetsu clones are pathetic) so you're going to have to adjust this somehow.
Wrong, again Hiding like a mole allows the user to sense through magnetic forces. A smoke screen doesn't matter at all.
Again not hidden at all, and you seem to think Oro knows the exact position of the mines here? Which he doesn't if he mayfly's he's setting them off, as Deidara would have already placed a good amount by the time Oro gets to do anything (He's still engaging the clone/original above the ground). Also absorb chakra? He took back his own strength and his own chakra as Juugo so kindly pointed out. He can't just go around absorbing chakra with a touch of the hand...he's not Preta.
Are you trying to use heat sensing for this? God I sure hope not. First off as I said/explained earlier its most likely Oro doesn't have heat sensing himself. Secondly even if by some miracle he did its hinged on the fact that heated molecules are being radiated into his organ directly. If there is ground in the way that clearly isn't going to happen so he can't sense shit (unless Deidara's at a good 500 degree's and even then its less than likely with the amount of ground in his way. THENNN if you don't want to believe even that there is the fact that sand itself is a great insulator of heat, which is conveniently what would be surrounding Deidara when he's underground, Nah mongrel; no heat is being sensed by Oro when anyone is underground.
In the end this strategy of yours fails.. miserably.
Base form? :lol his other mode just makes him move a bit quicker you act like it would up his reactions as well, if anything it slows them down. KN4 isn't even supposed to be very fast, it's not even close to comparing to one of the most skilled shunsin users in the manga. Its merely a monster, who can tank and has massive attacks. You need cooperation if you want to truly advance your speed.
Not to his reactions don't mean much as the C1's will continuously follow him.
It scratched off the skin and sent him flying, why are you comparing striking abilities with that of an explosion? If you think that thin layer of skin is protecting from C1's which are stronger than bombs that annihilated snake skin/scales
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(That was weaker than C1 actually as Deidara notes
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"increasing chakra level to C1") you're something special (although I guess you've already demonstrated how special you are)Skin doesn't stop an explosion, no matter what the hell it is, you can clearly see the emphasis on Naruto tugging off the thin layer only
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So way to not even counter the weakest technique of Deidara's.
You must be some kind of mongrel :lol How does this even make sense, not only have I debunked your spore clone strategy, but whats more is that the clones CAN'T use Oro's abilities, its literally just a bunch of spores that absorb chakra. Yet you think it can summon snakes? But once more this strategy is borderline retarded.
-Clone can't sense where Deidara is or where he will be
-Deidara is faster than said clone, and CAN sense where the clone is
-How is he going to summon a snake when underground with the mayfly? There is no pathway to Deidara. Not to mention it would strike a mine anyways.
This strategy made no sense and after placing the mines Deidara escapes freely.
Are you trying to say it would catch Deidara? Who has avoided and gone airborne versus something much faster in Gaara's sand?
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Naahh, He never gets caught so.... lml
No the hell you haven't? Clone feints that have fooled a sharingan user.....twice
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are going to fool Orochimaru as well.
What a foolishly arrogant move on your part :lol
Honestly my opener was bad, but this was worse. You've proven nothing really and your arguments are barely put together coherently enough to make sense. Oro can't stop the mines being placed. One last thing, I also want to point out that if you think setting off a mine underground, while Deidara is still underneath will kill him as well you're wrong. The mines explosions are compact and only affect what trigger them, as proven by the fact that all of them don't go off when one does :lol it required something that touched all of them for that to happen
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. So this strategy of yours literally ends up with nothing but wasted chakra. Deidara will go airborne and once he goes airborne he will relentlessly attack Orochimaru, with a remotely controlled C2 Dragon which its doubtful if he can take multiple hits from that, as one would at the least force him to use his body replacement. But then of course C4 Garuda is going to be used. I mean you were foolish enough to simply leave it un-countered but since i'm running out of posts i'll just counter some of the usuals
-Fuuton is useless as you breath in first, and the jutsu still is an explosion it explodes on a gaseous level sending all the particles outwards with an incredible force and speed
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so they immediately are within the opponent. They were already in Sasuke and Deidara just ha to detonate
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So its basically useless.-Oro has intel on what it does, but he still doesn't know its range, he still didn't have Sharingan so he couldn't detect the bombs himself.
-Mayfly is useless as it takes time to merge with the ground.
-Everything else is either too slow, or just not effective enough and in the end Orochimaru is trolled once more.
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TRE MERCER
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Nice post NUNS you def stepped your debating skills up since out last debate.
NSUNSR
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I haven't forgotten anything. I just read the Manga, where all Sasuke did was
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, and used
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, which Deidara couldn't have possibly seen. Oh, and summoned Manda, but Deidara was already dead so...First of all, all of this is just one big MAYBE, and it doesn't mean that Deidara has full intel at all. It is possible, that Deidara wanted to kill Orochimaru, because Orochimaru targeted Itachi, and we obviously know, how much Deidara trained to kill Itachi, so he wouldn't want his chance to slip. Deidara fought Sasuke who had Orochimaru's abilities, but he never stated that any of his techniques were designed to kill Orochimaru. What, did he just forgot that Sasuke
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at the start of the battle? So its laughable, because your assumptions prove that Deidara has full intel on Orochimaru? Yes it does hurt Deidara, because Orochimaru will know how to deal with Deidara's justus including the tricky C4 and landmines. Also i should mention that Orochimaru has his Zetsu body, something of which Deidara isn't aware of. Not that he knows anything about Zetsu anyways...
I stay corrected on this one. It was only Black Zetsu who showed sensory abilities.
While it is debatable whether or not, can Orochimaru use this kind of sensing, it is clear that Orochimaru is a sensor. As i already showed in the first post (though you somehow didn't see the scans), Orochimaru was able to sense
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. I further showed, that Orochimaru can recognise whether he is up against a real person or a clone. Sai was even underground, but Orochimaru was still able to sense him. (
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) - (
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) - (
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) If for some reason you still don't think that Orochimaru can't sense here is a scan where Orochimaru himself
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.To bad there are scans, where Orochimaru is hiding underground, spying Team 7. (
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) - (
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) Moreover, orochimaru has a technqiue, which
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.Where did you get that its appear and retreat technique? It was a jutsu used for spying, and Zetsu was never combat oriented, so its obvious why he never used it in battle. I don't see how your scan proves that it takes a lot of time to merge with the ground when using mayfly. The only time when Zetsu got caught before using Mayfly, was by
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. Not to mention that Zetsu was even suprized, that he got caught, meaning that he has confidence in his speed. You know what i want to use Mayfly for, yet you still didn't make a good counter for it. U_ULml, no need teach me what sources to use. Also i acquire my information from different debates and discussion too, so no, you aren't right at all.
...
Used the spore clone by mistake, i meant the Zetsu/Parasyte clone, which Zetsu uses to duplicate himself. This clone is much better than your normal bunshin, as it can be
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, doesn't poof when you damage it, even when its
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, and is good enough to get the job done.Mayfly makes the user's existence completely "disappear", as even the
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, so hiding like a Mole won't help Deidara locate the parasyte clone.
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, can absorb the clone since its made fully out of chakra, or just get a kunai to stab it, its not that hard.I meant to use the smoke screen, so that Deidara wouldn't see the clone. After it merges with the ground the parasyte clone, can't be tracked down anyways.
Yes he can sense all the mines, as i already showed that he has superb sensing capabilities. Also, what is so difficult to understand about the scan when Orochimaru gets his chakra back? It isn't like it just magically apears in him, he absorbed it. He isn't preta, but he can still absorb chakra. It was even implied that he could
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, but as juugo states, Orochimaru left it.This whole paragraph has already been countered, as i've already proven Orochimaru's sensing capabilities.
...
I guess that KN6 is just a fat monster, which can't move too? Lol (
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) - (
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) Any V2 jinchuurucki we have seen until now moves incredibly fast, and how is an upgrade from KN3 Naruto, who already moves very fast, will be slower? Orochimaru was able to cross hundred's of meters pretty fast. (
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) - (
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) His slippery form was fast enough to
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around him, and create a
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behind him. Also the distance between them is quite small, so a second will close the gap. Actually that explosion was clearly a C2 bomb, evident by the fact that Deidara is
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. Also
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than the explosion from
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. So why did he say, that he is upgrading to C1? Well, its pretty simple. After dropping the explosion, he
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. He didn't have any clay bombs prepared, shown as he
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, so its normal that he had to upgrade to C1.Is mockery the way you plan to win this debate? Lol
It won't stop the explosion, but it will protect his skin from getting damaged. He doesn't need stop the explosion, he just needs to jump out of its range. All i can see in this image is, Naruto's hands not being able to pierce through Orochimaru's skin. A punch which can send someone fly hundreds of meters in the air >>> C1's explosion.
Yet the clone was able to perform Kisame's unique jutsu
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. However, he didn't use it right? Well the fact that he tried to use the jutsu, and commented on the fact that his opponents were too fast, shows his confidence, that he could use the jutsu. White Zetsu's clones barely had any chakra, so its normal for them to not be able to replicate any jutsu, but a clone with half of Orochimaru's clones will easily have enough chakra to use snakes.Just like Orochimaru, his clone can sense Deidara's clone. Even if for some reason the clone can't sense Deidara, it wouldn't be a problem, because Orochimaru
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.Nor is it faster, neither can it sense Orochimaru's clone, which will be using mayfly.
Why would it need to summon a snake, when
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?Yes i am, because Deidara won't be able to anticipate the attack.
LMAO, yes i did, and i reposted the scan in this post too. Orochimaru was able to recognise the real Sai from his clone, and sharingan can't differentiate clones, so why are you even using it as an example? Here are the scans for the third time: (
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) - (
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) - (
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)Yeah, yeah, excuses...
I wouldn't argue that.
Before i finish this post, i want to to explain why, even if Deidara gets to flight, he will still loose. Landmines and C1 have already been countered, so i won't bother with them.
Countering C2 and C3
C2 are able to create a huge explosion, but they don't damage the ground a lot, as seen, when even the
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. While C3 hasn't exploded on land to see if it can create a big crater, going a dozen meters underground should be more than enough, and summonin a giant snake, should always be able to protect Orochimaru.Countering C4
A tricky, but also possible to counter jutsu. Sasuke was able to see all of the C4
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. Since Orochimaru is a sensor detcting these bombs, and analyzing their range, won't be a diffcult task. To get out of the cloud, Orochimaru can summon one of his towering snakes, like
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, or
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. Although the snakes might inhale the bombs and die, Orochimaru's survival will be guranteed.Finishing Deidara off
Deidara who has already used multiple C2 bombs, landmines, C4, and maybe C3, will be completely exhausted, and without any clay left. Orochimaru finishes him off, by summoning Manda, to get close, and then
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End of my second post.
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Zexion~
Kage in the Making 👑
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Doesn't really matter, but you just showed he knows about snake summoning, and Deidara saw nearly everything in that battle.
What? Last part doesn't make any sense. Maybe he didn't make a technique to kill him as he was already confident he could beat him without that much difficulty :lol Either way intel isn't that much of a deciding factor, nor am I saying he has FULL intel. I'm merely stating that he is most definitely going to have basic intel.
Why wouldn't he know anything about Zetsu? Once again underestimating the knowledge each Akatsuki member had on the other .-.
*Stand
He doesn't indirectly state anything. He STATES that they are not sensors, which is a fact. Oro may have minor sensing but whatever it is it can't be very good. As he was caught by trolled by the same minor genjutsu twice
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-
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-
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. Correct me if i'm wrong but true sensors are supposed to be aware of things such as that, especially when fighting straight on. Cee needed to be distracted before he could be caught in an illusion
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.The feat with Sai can be attributed to feeling movement under the ground, (yes he can do that here but it doesn't help him) and the team 7 can merely be attributed to sight. Either way this point isn't going to help him all that much.
Actually there is a scan that debunks your sensing argument
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He has sensing but couldn't sense that it was Sasuke outside his door?
That is the attack prevention technique...He can't travel with it. As for the first scan it doesn't quite look like he's dug a path by turning the dirt into sand, but that might be just me.
I merely meant its only used for traveling .-. Uh, no A is one of the fastest characters in the manga with his raiton shroud, he was caught in base easily. My scans show that it takes quite some time for Zetsu to fully merge with the ground. So using it in battle is near useless unless you can provide scans of it being used that way :lol.
Zetsu was surprised at base Ay's speed .-. Which is not a very good feat.
Sure mongrel.
Pathetic, are you really using this? Firstly a clone that needs to be controlled remotely is a hindrance not an advantage. As the user has to focus on controlling its actions, hence why Kisame had to remain in Samehada and couldn't fight along side it if he wanted to.
Then there is this
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"It'll be too weak for battle" all his clones can do are disguise themselves with someone else s chakra. Yet you think it can kill Deidara? You're strategy turned pathetic the minute you tried using these things.Omg.....I don't know what to say. Why are you linking me a scan of Kisame merging with Samehada and claiming its mayfly? Whatever you're already wrong as pain was able to sense Zetsu
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. But again your counter is trash because you don't understand anything. When using mayfly he's going to cause vibrations within the ground .-. He's still traveling even if it did mask his chakra completely, so magnetic vibrations and forces are still going to be sensed by Deidara. He doesn't just vanish from existence when he uses it.I meant to use the smoke screen, so that Deidara wouldn't see the clone. After it merges with the ground the parasyte clone, can't be tracked down anyways.
Stop with shit being "implied".
Suigetsu thought he could, Oro didn't and never explained why. So no, he can't go absorbing chakra. It was his own implanted senjutsu chakra that he took back.....just like how he controls the curse mark.
Are you going to constantly have him focus on sensing the mines then? That would lessen his attack abilities greatly as its not like Sasuke who can constantly see the chakra, and even he was caught.
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Still no concrete proof that he can, actually better proof that he can't.
Uh, Pain isn't really a speedster pal, yet he was straight out running it
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Pretty fast? A whole flashback and then some occurred before Oro came stumbling back like a drunk.
Crush the debris? His elongated form was dragging up dust from the dirty crater they were fighting in. Had nothing to do with speed. The distance between Deidara and Sasuke was smaller and Sasuke is faster meaning Oro has no speed feats that amount to anything.
Omgggg have you even read the manga? How are you going to claim that is the C2 dragon its clearly something completely different
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Then you make yourself sound even more stupid talking about size. Size means nothing, its all about the chakra you have concentrated in the explosion. As Deidara explains
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:lol......
No but just that gives me a better chance than your arguments do.
y
Nah, not really honestly once again you've shown your lack of knowledge here and the judges should be able to realize this. But an explosion is a rapid exert of forces in all directions.
Honestly this whole skin thing is once again borderline retarded. As Gaara who's sand armor is >>>>>>>>>>>> Oro's layer of skin was taken out by things less than C1
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( They were explosives made from the sand). *sigh* Tobi said it should be used as a diversion....shouting out a powerful technique and forcing the Raikage and Bee to attack him while Kisame hides in Samehada? Sure sounds like a diversion.
He can't sense.
Yes it can, and why do you think mayfly is going to magically avoid the mines he's placed. Jesus christ, why are you trying to kill him underground when it makes you sound like such an idiot.
Is the face palm emote still a thing? There is still no path for it to travel.
Anticipating a faster attack in Gaara's sand means ...he won't be able to anticipate a slower one? Huh never knew
But couldn't recognize the chakra signature of someone he's been obsessed with for 4 years?
He most certainly just noticed movement underground.
This post is even worse :lol
Finally a wise choice.
Countering C2 and C3
What? C2's are fast bro, and are much stronger than the original bomb that destroyed the snake Sasuke used at first (notice how it wasn't used again) Not to mention summoning such a large snake would set off a multitude of mines that would explode from underneath, and actually is it just me or does the land look a bit leveled in this scan?
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Explosions don't need to create craters, especially since Deidara wants his mines to remain hidden. They were too fast for Sasuke to even react with anything to defend against them apart from his CM. Yet you think Oro is going to be able to bend over and summon a giant snake? (The smaller variants aren't going to protect him.
I don't use C3, but it would probably annihilate Oro no matter what he summons ( it def does if used against your pathetic counter)
Countering C4
He's not a sensor...and really not difficult? Pinpointing the chakra of millions upon millions of nanobombs and all of their locations isn't difficulty? For someone who couldn't sense their rape victims chakra from a few feet away it seems kind of a heavy task.
Seeing chakra=/=Sensing. Sasuke has the Sharingan while Oro doesn't...he can sense somethings coming but he won't be able to visually or mentally see the shape its coming in.
:lol Was it ever proved Oro can even summon in a zetsu body without blood?
Anyways, are you good the bombs immediatly would be upon Orochimaru, so the snakes would merely take him right up through the cloud. He'd breath the bombs in either way.
Out of all the C4 counter's i've seen this might have been the worst.
Finishing Deidara off
Never even countered C1's really, but C2 definitely takes Oro out and C4 is un-counterable. Also Deidara is never truly out of clay, as he can just use the earth to form more like he did with Gaara's sand
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Not that it would ever come to that with your strategies Oro gets obliterated in this fight.
I mean your arguments were so easily countered I don't really have to say much, strategy wasn't even needed as you haven't even proved Oro can survive against the basic uses of C2 and C4.
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NSUNSR
Jōnin Strategist 🧠
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FINAL POST
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How did he saw almost everything, when Deidara only saw the snake summoning? It would be nice of you if you could back up your claim, but since you rushed your last post, you can’t really do that…
Why would Deidara underestimate one of the legendary sannin, when another Akatsuki member, Kisame, was afraid of them? (
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)That is what I’ve been trying to prove, that Deidara only has basic intel on Orochimaru.
There is no evidence, that Deidara has intel on Zetsu. Not to forget, that Deidara isn’t aware of Orochimaru’s possession of Zetsu’s abilities.
He is suprized that they can sense the chakra, but isn’t surprised of his ability to sense the chakra, so yes, he does state, that he is a sensor.
He was caught in Sasuke’s genjutsu on purpose, as he knew, that he was able to easily break out of it, which he
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. (walks away from the stakes piercing his body)Orochimaru was
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. Cee who was a sensor, also didn’t realize that Sasuke was using genjutsu, until he
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. Juugo’s distraction only helped Sasuke close the distance between him and Cee. If Cee was aware, that Sasuke was about to use genjutsu, he wouldn’t
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, or he would have at least tried to close them immediately.Nothing states, that Orochimaru can feel the movement underground, but it has already been stated, that he is a sensor. All of these are baseless assumptions, and I am not bothering with them.
He could recognize Sasuke’s chakra composition (which is a feat, that can only be accomplished by a sensor), but
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before, so he was just confused. Your scan only further helps me prove, that Orochimaru has sensing abilities. :lolI didn’t try to prove, that he has hide like a mole technique, only that he has different means of getting underground, even in his normal form.
Zetsu was suprized, that anyone could catch him, so he was confident in his speed. Your scan don’t prove anything, as Zetsu isn’t pressured to merge as fast as he scan, and nothing in the scan can help us measure his speed.
Zetsu was able to
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, by merging in the ground with mayfly before, and he could even dodge a
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. These scans prove that Zetsu can merge with the ground extremely, so yes, mayfly can be used for combat.Kisame used the Zetsu clone, to distract Ay, and Bee, so that he could merge with Samehada, which he was
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. Leaving Samehada and fighting against Bee would go against Tobi’s orders.
It is obvious, that you have no idea, how Zetsu clones actually work. Not only does Zetsu create a perfect clone to someone,
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, but it can even copy things like blood, though Zetsu himself is an artificial being with no organs or blood. (
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) - (
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) - (
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) Since these clones can copy ones invidual chakra and blood, it is only logical for these clones to copy ones techniques. This statement is further supported, when Zetsu tried to use Kisame’s unique jutsu Water shark bullet. Him doing that just as a distraction would be dumb, as Kisame had already merged with Samehada. Also you forget, that this clone is made by Orochimaru, who has large chakra levels, so giving the clone enough chakra to perform a few jutsus is a simple task. I even explained in the previous post, that Zetsu can deal with Deidara’s clone, with his normal abilities, by absorbing him, eating him, or stabbing him, yet you didn’t counter any of that. Did you just lost interest in this debate?Massive fail from me for using the scan. Anyways there are still occasions, when Zetsu was
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, and undetected by
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, some of which were sensors like Cee. Even the databook supports my statement. First of all there is no proof, that Pain is a sensor. Zetsu can be used to
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, so all of this could be as well Pain telling Zetsu information. Mayfly doesn’t just conceal ones chakra, but also ones existence, stated by the databook. (conceal isn’t the same as remove) It doesn’t matter if Deidara’s clone can sense vibrations, when it doesn’t understand, what are they from.
Zetsu himself can absorb chakra, it was clear, that Orochimaru absorbed his own chakra, nothing in the managa supports the claim, that Orochimaru can take back someones chakra, without absorbing it. You are the one making the assumptions here. If Orochimaru couldn’t take Kabuto’s chakra, he would have said so.
The mine Sasuke stepped on, was
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. Orochimaru’s sensing abilities would allow him to sense all mines, even the ones behind him.…
Why would Pain not be a speedster, when he showed superb reactions, even when tired. He could dodge a Rasenshuriken, at an extremely close distance, even when KB’s tried to stop him in his tracks. (
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) - (
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) - (
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)It is debatable as to how much time does a flashback take, so I am just dropping this point.
The debris around him was crushed, what is so hard to understand about that? It is still a fact, that this form makes Orochimaru faster, and that Orochimaru in base is fast, even if the boost of speed can’t be calculated.
I am not saying, that Orochimaru can blitz Deidara, I’m just showing, that he can dodge C1.
I read the manga, and the bird Deidara is using looks and acts similar to his Dragon, as it could also drop bombs on Sasuke.
If it wasn’t all about the size, then C2 wouldn’t have been so much bigger than C1, and C3 wouldn’t have been so much bigger than C2. Deidara
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, as he had to gather clay from his pockets. That is why he said that he upgrades to C1.If you say so…
Gaara’s sand armor was
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by Sasuke’s punch. Even if it became stronger with time, it is still far weaker than Gaara’s normal sand, which endured a C3 explosion [ (
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) - (
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) ], while the sand armor was broken by C1, as you showed. Orochimaru’s skin protected him from an attack far more powerful than C1 explosions, and there is nothing to support the statement, that Sand Armor > Oro’s skin.Kisame already merged with Samehada, as I had previously stated, no need for confusing the enemy more.
He can.
The clone can just sense and doge the already placed mines.
Is the face palm emote still a thing? There is still no path for it to travel.
Anticipating a faster attack in Gaara's sand means ...he won't be able to anticipate a slower one? Huh never knew
Let me explain this for you. The clone comes from under the ground. Deidara jumps in the air to dodge its attack. The clone uses snake glare and
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Deidara. Its not that hard to understand.Already debunked. Orochimaru can sense. Lml Orochimaru even states that he sensed the chakra signature.
k
Orochimaru can just use Mayfly the moment Deidara takes flight. I have already proved, that Mayfly allows one to merge with the ground very fast. Ones Orochimaru is underground C2 and C3 become useless. Manda survived for some time,
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. C2 and C3 won’t do a lot of damage.Even if he can’t pinpoint their location, he can still sense, whether or not, he is in their range. Sasuke got out of the range with his normal speed. Using the boost of his summoning will easily allow for Orochimaru to get out of C4’s range.
I already showed, that Zetsu can duplicate blood. (
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) - (
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) - (
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)Why would he breath in the bombs, if he knows, that this will kill him?
*best
How is he eating the earth, when he is in midair? Please tell me that you’re joking…
*Deidara
I’ve proven that Oro can kill Deidara, before he even takes flight, and even proved that Orochimaru will beat Deidara, even he takes flight. Your stragedy only makes Orochimaru’s victory easier. Orochimaru is the victor here.
End of my final post.
This debate has been finished. Judges can do their work now.
KidGamer65
Legendary Shinobi 🐸
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Can't wait to see this one judged. :lol
Icelerate
Sannin of the Scrolls 📜
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Zexion's First Post
C2 Mines
Zexion explained that it doesn't take long to plant the mines as Tobi was done quickly. He explained that a clone of Deidara's can replicate this feat easily and that Oro's slithering technique will cause him to activate multiple mines doing a tremendous amount of damage to Oro if he decides to slither about the battlefield.
C1
Zexion showed that C1 missiles are fast and agile which can make Oro use more chakra than Deidara himself because Oro's oral rebirth and Rashomon are much more chakra taxing. With the mines in the battlefield, countering C1 missiles becomes ever more difficult.
C2
Zexion explained that even a faster Hebi Sasuke had trouble with C2 so Oro will have even more trouble.
C4
Zexion explained that this is a sure kill and that Oro is still a snake even though he'll have some plantlike properties, he still needs to breathe as he doesn't have roots in the ground to get energy.
NSUNSR's First Post
Intelligence
Nsunsr explained how Oro has a huge intel advantage over Deidara as he's observed Sasuke's fight with Deidara hence he knows everything barring C3.
Sensing capability
Nsunsr showed that Oro is a sensor with various different sensing abilities.
Underground Movement
It was shown that Oro has multiple ways of travelling underground and that May Fly is untrackable.
C2 Mines
Nsunsr explained that Oro can sense the mines and the clone planting them which allows the untrackable clone using mayfly to take out Oro's clone and absorb the chakra out of the mines.
C1
Nsunsr brought up various speed feats from an inferior Oro which convinced me that they are enough to outright dodge Deidara's c1 explosions which Sasuke dodged without much effort. He also showed that KN Naruto's hit was tanked by Orochimaru so he can do the same to C1 explosions.
C2 Missiles
Nsunsr didn't counter C2 and I'm not convinced Oro can finish Deidara off before he takes flight as taking flight is something Deidara will do ASAP.
C4
No counter to C4 was given.
Zexion's Second Post
Intel
Don't see how Deidara's battle against Hebi Sasuke revealed many of Oro's abilities when Sasuke didn't use most of Oro's arsenal. Deidara did plan to kill Oro but you fail to give proof as to what techniques Deidara knows about.
Sensory Abilities
While Zexion argued that Oro can't sense heat and that White Zetsu isn't a proficient sensor which no proof was given for this to be the case, he failed to counter Nsunsr's feats of Oro's sensing capability.
Underground Movement
You said don't trust the Wiki but fail to explain how Oro didn't use hiding like a mole. I don't see how it takes much time to go underground with May Fly when the scan you linked shows it being almost as fast as Tobi's space time. While you explained that Deidara's clone can sense magnetic forces, you failed to explain how Zetsu clones being too weak for a direct battle mean that they will be too weak to absorb chakra from mines and take out Deidara's fodder clay clone.
C2 Mines
You claimed Oro can take back chakra but can't absorb chakra, how does that work? You can only take back chakra by absorbing it and even if I'm wrong, you failed to give manga proof that there are other methods of taking chakra other than absorbing. Oro can sense chakra so how is he setting off those mines, why will he not know their position? Going by this logic, White Zetsu can't use Mayfly effectively or else he'd get lost but that's clearly not the case.
C1
I disagree that KN4 isn't fast although you did bring a good point that C1 birds can continuously follow Oro. As for C1 obliterating Oro's second layer of skin, I disagree with this notion because Naruto's punch was more powerful even if it wasn't an explosion and doing damage to the scales of fodder snakes isn't that good of a feat when the snakes were still very much intact as will Oro who is more durable. Don't see how skin can never stop an explosion no matter what it is. Are you implying that 3rd Raikage's skin can't stop C1? Nice joke.
Countering Nsunsr attempt at taking Deidara before he takes flight
How will Zetsu clones not be able to sense Deidara especially when he's in open sight trying to take flight? Proof that Deidara is faster than a clone using Mayfly? You did bring a good point that Oro can't use a jutsu while using mayfly. Why would the attack strike a mine when Oro is aiming it at Deidara? His strategy didn't make much sense because the real Deidara would have long escaped by the time Oro sends his clone underground to intercept Deidara's clone but your counter strategy makes zero sense as well. I agree he never gets caught by Oro's snake bind as he managed to escape getting caught by Gaara's sand which has better speed feats.
C2 Missiles
I agree especially when Nsunsr didn't make a rebuttal.
C4
Once again I agree completely for similar reasons.
NSUNSR's Second Post
Intel
I agree that Deidara doesn't have much intel on Oro like he did when it comes to Itachi as like you explained, Deidara never made a jutsu specially to kill Oro like he did with Itachi so that doesn't mean he has much intel on Oro as he did to Itachi. You also point out that Deidara doesn't know Oro possesses Zetsu's body even if he knows about Zetsu's capability.
Sensing capabilities
Nsunsr ended up conceding on white Zetsu possessing sensory abilities even though I'm pretty sure he does but whatever. Nsunsr reiterates that regardless of the semantics, Oro has sensory feats and his statement where he claimed team Taka could sense despite not being sensors solidifies the claim that he himself is a sensor.
Underground movement
More proof of Oro using hiding like a mole were provided and attack prevention was also shown although this doesn't allow Oro to travel but it could be useful to evade attacks I guess. For some reason, Zetsu being unable to May Fly before base Ay could blitz is being used as proof that May Fly happens quickly. Don't know why you are using different types of clones only to be proven wrong on their capabilities when you can just use shadow clones and be done with these pointless arguments. I do agree Zetsu clones can get the job done though when it comes to taking out the Deidara clone underground. I agree with you that the mines can be sensed and that Oro can absorb chakra.
C1 Missiles
I agree that KN4 Naruto is a speedster so dodging its attacks is a nice speed feat so C1 missiles can be dodged as well but you ignored their homing capability which Zexion touched upon. I disagree that the bomb Sasuke first tanked was a C2 bomb as its AoE was mediocre to the other C2 bombs we've seen. You claimed that the explosion was much bigger than the other C1 explosion but this is flawed because that other explosion was far off in the background. I agree that Oro's durable skin can tank C1 explosion.
Orochimaru taking Deidara down
While I agree that Deidara on the ground won't be able to anticipate Oro's Kusanagi attack from underground, once he's in the air, he doesn't need to as he'll have plenty of time to react as Deidara can fly high. You also pointed out Manda would be summoned to close the distance and showed a scan of the Kusanagi blade extending very far so I do believe that an exhausted Deidara can be taken down like this.
Countering C2 and C3
I agree Oro can counter by going underground deep enough but this is only if May Fly is fast enough to allow Oro to do so. So far you didn't prove that May Fly is practical when it comes to dodging fast attacks when it couldn't even dodge base Ay.
Countering C4
This was a horrible counter because as you admit, those snakes would die and fall down. Then Oro would be back to square one. Not to mention Deidara can use his C1 missiles to blow Oro into the C4 nano bombs.
Zexion's Final Post
Intel
The stubborn mule finally concedes that Oro has the intel advantage and Deidara won't have complete information on Oro, just basic intel such as the fact that Oro is a snake user and his reputation. Deidara having intel on Zetsu just because he's a fellow Akatsuki member is a poor argument considering how secretive he is.
Oro's sensory capabilities
I don't see how getting caught in a genjutsu means you aren't a sensor. Sensors aren't immune to genjutsu. Oro had full knowledge that he was in a genjutsu anyway. Oro not being able to sense that it was Sasuke doesn't mean he can't sense the presence of another being regardless of whether he can tell their identity. Not to mention Oro was bed ridden and not actively kneading chakra.
C2 Mines
I don't see why Zex is denying Oro's ability to absorb chakra when a clearcut scan was given of him doing so. Nsunsr already had Oro's clone take out those mines so I'm not sure why you are still using them and saying Oro would trip on them like Sasuke did. Not to mention Sasuke doesn't have 360 degrees vision or sensory abilities.
Underground Travel
Zexion mentioned that Oro can't travel with the Attack Prevention technique and that from what was apparent, Oro wasn't surrounded by sand while spying on Team 7. It was mentioned that Zetsu being unable to MayFly against base Ay isn't a good feat in regards to using MayFly to evade attacks. Zexion keeps on claiming that the Zetsu clone are too weak to be used in combat but Nsunsr never used them in direct combat against the real Deidara so I'm not sure why he keeps on saying this. Zexion did point out that Nsunsr made a huge error in linking a scan where Mayfly wasn't even used. Zexion pointed out a scan where Pain noticed Zetsu was there although there is a possibility that Pain knew he was there without being able to sense him. Regardless, even while using Mayfly, magnetic vibrations should still be felt by the Deidara clone underground although Oro using Mayfly is much faster.
Oro's speed
I see some massive downplay of Oro's speed going on here and it gets even worse when Deva's speed and reactions are downplayed. Oro being slower than Sasuke doesn't mean Oro can't dodge C1 missiles as their explosion radius is pitiful.
C1
Zexion showed how Deidara didn't use C2 against Sasuke when he guarded with snakes but I disagree with it being even weaker than C1 as Deidara doesn't have a jutsu weaker than C1. You claimed Gaara was knocked out by C1 but fail to realise he was exhausted and can't take as much damage as Oro before succumbing to his wounds. Not to mention you are beating around the bush and ignoring Oro's durability feat.
Clones
I agree that Zetsu clones are best used for diversions and not upfront battle.
Underground travel
You did bring a good point that while using Mayfly, there is no path for an attack from Oro to travel as Oro will be surrounded by earth all around him.
C2
Don't see why you are claiming Oro can't summon before getting hit by C2 missiles when he summoned three Rashomon while sick to guard against a TBB.
C4
Zexion attempted to counter Nsunsr strategy of evading C4 by summoning snakes underneath him but he gave a weak counter by saying the nano bombs would be upon him immediately ignoring the massive prep of C4 and the fact that the cloud is by no means instant.
Finishing Deidara off
You didn't counter Nsunsr strategy of using the incredible range of kusanagi and using a snake summon to further augment the range of Oro's sword to swipe Deidara out of the sky.
Nsunsr's Final Post
IntelAt this point, you have won the intel argument.
Sensing
Due to Zexion being too slow to understand, he still doesn't get the implication of Oro being a sensor. Oro wasn't surprised at being able to sense Naruto's chakra but he was surprised at team Taka sensing chakra because they weren't sensors henceforth Oro is a sensor. You also prove that Oro falling for a genjutsu doesn't mean he's not a sensor. You also pointed out that in Zexion's scan, Oro could still feel the chakra composition but was surprised at the shape manipulation which he had not previously witnessed Sasuke do so he got confused. Feeling chakra composition just goes to prove Oro is a sensor. You used Zexion's scan against himself. At this point you have won this section of the debate.
Underground Movement
It seems like you conceded in Oro having hiding like a mole technique despite claiming otherwise before. I don't see how dodging kunais and a slow net with mayfly is a noteworthy feat so once again you prove Zexion right that mayfly can't allow Oro to consistently evade Deidara's fast attacks. I agree that the Zetsu clone can devour the Deidara clone underground ultimately stopping Deidara's mine strategy in its tracks. I agree that sensors can't detect a mayfly user but you failed to counter Zexion's argument that Deidara will use magnetic vibrations to detect mayfly. Why won't Deidara's clone understand where the vibrations are coming from? Shouldn't it be obvious that it's coming from a clone tunneling underground? Anyway I agree that Oro can absorb chakra as Zetsu can do the same.
Speed
You gave an amazing reaction feat from Deva proving he's definitely fast so him outrunning KN6 doesn't mean Oro dodging KN4 isn't a good feat. You pointed out that even if Oro's speed boost is unquantifiable, he still receives one in his slithering snake mode. I agree that C1 is dodged although you didn't counter its ability to change direction.
C1
I disagree with the initial explosion against Sasuke being C2. You did prove that Gaara's sand armour was cracked by Sasuke's punch whereas it took KN3 Naruto to crack Oro's skin.
Deidara dodging Oro's surprise attack
You claimed that Oro clone would appear from underground and attack Deidara forcing him to evade but then somehow catch him off guard even though Deidara becomes aware after Oro reveals himself.
C2 missiles
You claimed Oro would Mayfly the second Deidara gets on his C2 dragon but then how does he go on the offensive if all he does it remain underground?
C4
You pointed out that Sasuke escaped the C4 cloud with his regular speed which Oro can replicate. I agree Oro shouldn't breathe in C4 but I'm pretty sure it would work regardless as these are nanobombs which should be able to enter the bloodstream through skin pores.
Finishing Deidara off
You pointed out that Deidara isn't restocking on clay anytime soon when he is in the air.
Summary
C1 missiles
Nsunsr proved that C1 missiles are easily dodged or tanked by Oro thus it's a waste of clay and chakra for Deidara. Nsunsr wins this section
C2 mines
I was convinced that Oro has sensory abilities and with mayfly which is way faster than hiding like a mole, he should be able to outspeed the Deidara clone underground with ease. I was convinced that Oro can absorb chakra thus rendering the mines useless. Zexion did force Nsunsr to concede that Oro has hiding like a mole and convinced me that Deidara can sense vibrations of Oro's clone using mayfly. Regardless in the grand scheme of things, Oro is much faster so Deidara sensing him is useless. Nsunsr wins this section.
C2 missiles
Zexion pointed out that they managed to overwhelm Hebi Sasuke but part of this was due to the bombs planted underneath. Regardless, their ability to home in towards Oro means Oro can't evade them as he can't outrun them. Nsunsr brought up bad arguments in regards to how fast Oro can mayfly so I don't think that's a good way to evade the missiles. I do agree that Oro can simply hide underground but then he can't go on the offensive and Deidara will just wait, watch and observe. Overall Zexion wins this portion of the debate.
C4
I didn't like the strategy Nsunsr gave in regards to summoning the snakes because after those snakes inhale the nanobombs, they get killed forcing Oro to come down right into the nanobombs. Nsunsr did mention Oro could simply evade the cloud of nanobombs which I agree with but this counter wasn't elaborated upon and only used in the third post. He even ignored C4 in the first post. I also wasn't convinced by Zexion that C4 is that fast. Overall, this section was a tie.
Oro taking Deidara out
Zexion proved that Deidara can dodge Oro's attacks much like he dodged Gaara's sand. Nsunsr should have highlighted the incredible range at which Kusanagi can extend instead of simply stating that Deidara gets caught off guard. Nsunsr did prove that Deidara can't get more clay as long as he is flying although Zexion did not use C3 in his strategy so Deidara has plenty of clay until he uses C4. Also with Nsunsr constantly using mayfly to make Oro go on the defensive, I fail to see how he can launch an effective offence without getting hard countered. This section goes to Zexion.
Verdict
NSUNSR wins high difficulty.
Zexion had the edge in the beginning of the debate while Nsunsr had the edge towards the end of the debate. I believe Nsunsr decisively countered Zexion more often than the other way around. Nsunsr was willing to concede when he was wrong whereas Zexion was too stubborn to do that and even ended up mocking Nsunsr even when the one who should be mocked was himself. I do believe this matchup is heavily in Oro's favour though so I have to give credit to Zexion for going through and putting up a great debate.
Zexion had the edge in the beginning of the debate while Nsunsr had the edge towards the end of the debate. I believe Nsunsr decisively countered Zexion more often than the other way around. Nsunsr was willing to concede when he was wrong whereas Zexion was too stubborn to do that and even ended up mocking Nsunsr even when the one who should be mocked was himself. I do believe this matchup is heavily in Oro's favour though so I have to give credit to Zexion for going through and putting up a great debate.
Ghost in the Shell
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...the stubborn mule?
As usual, Icelerate's banter is strong/weak.
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As usual, Icelerate's banter is strong/weak.
Zexion~
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*sigh*
I showed that C1's struck through Gaara's sand armor which has more feats than Oro's layer of skin.
Not going to argue this though, I expected nothing less from you Icelerate.
Okay actually hold on
Does nobody know what Chakra composition is? It means Oro knew it was Raiton......You don't need to be a sensor for that shit...... How are you going to say I proved Oro couldn't take Deidara out, and then say I proved C4 would be deciding....and still give him the win?
Lmfaoooo I'm done here.
I showed that C1's struck through Gaara's sand armor which has more feats than Oro's layer of skin.
Not going to argue this though, I expected nothing less from you Icelerate.
Okay actually hold on
Does nobody know what Chakra composition is? It means Oro knew it was Raiton......You don't need to be a sensor for that shit...... How are you going to say I proved Oro couldn't take Deidara out, and then say I proved C4 would be deciding....and still give him the win?
Lmfaoooo I'm done here.
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NSUNSR
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Great judgement Icelerate. I thought that you conceded from judging, but it is good to see you back. While i agree with most of the things you said, and that i made some bad points, there are a few things, you didn't look up well.
For example i showed that, even if Orochimaru's clone doesn't catch Deidara by surprise, he can still use snake glare to catch Deidara, while in mid air. Zexion trying to counter this point, also shows, that Deidara isn't taking flight ASAP.
Here is a direct quote from my third post:
While you are right, that going underground, won't allow for Orochimaru to attack Deidara, it will help him win in a fight of attrition, which is why i stated, that Orochimaru will finish Deidara off, when he is low on clay and chakra.
Another quote, this time from my second post:
Finally i meant to use the summons as a counter to C4, as a way to boost Orochimaru, but i do agree, that it isn't very practical strategy (has its chances, but can fail).
Overall, i do agree, that it was a close debate, and if Zexion wasn't so stubborn, he would have probably won your judgement.
There is only or two judgements left now.
Edit: Didn't see Zexion's post. Here is my respond to it:
You never proved, that sand armor is better that Oro's skin...
I am not gonna research as to what chakra composition is, but nevertheless, that scan didn't prove, that Orochimaru can't sense.
Icelerate said that C4 arguments were a tie...
Most judges don't judge the debate, by who's character won, but by which debater used the characters in the best away.
For example i showed that, even if Orochimaru's clone doesn't catch Deidara by surprise, he can still use snake glare to catch Deidara, while in mid air. Zexion trying to counter this point, also shows, that Deidara isn't taking flight ASAP.
Here is a direct quote from my third post:
While you are right, that going underground, won't allow for Orochimaru to attack Deidara, it will help him win in a fight of attrition, which is why i stated, that Orochimaru will finish Deidara off, when he is low on clay and chakra.
Another quote, this time from my second post:
Finally i meant to use the summons as a counter to C4, as a way to boost Orochimaru, but i do agree, that it isn't very practical strategy (has its chances, but can fail).
Overall, i do agree, that it was a close debate, and if Zexion wasn't so stubborn, he would have probably won your judgement.
There is only or two judgements left now.
Edit: Didn't see Zexion's post. Here is my respond to it:
You never proved, that sand armor is better that Oro's skin...
I am not gonna research as to what chakra composition is, but nevertheless, that scan didn't prove, that Orochimaru can't sense.
Icelerate said that C4 arguments were a tie...
Most judges don't judge the debate, by who's character won, but by which debater used the characters in the best away.
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KeyofDestiny
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White Zetsu is a sensor btw. NUNSR should've just posted the scan that clearly says it instead of beating around the bush with a bunch of weak examples, and one good example.
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