[DEBATE] Naruto vs. Sasuke (Pre Shippuden)

Melly

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Ĺight and Gutsy Jiraya - Sasuke
Melly and Reyleigh - Naruto

Decide who will make the first move and the number of posts.

And also, we need 2 judges :D


The Location - valley of the end
The Intel - manga
The State of mind - kill
The restrictions- no restrictions
 
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SilverSlick

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I can't be a judge given that pre Shippuden Sasuke is awesome and in my eyes, wins by default.
 

Traffy

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I guess I'll be a judge if you need one.
 

Melly

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You want me to set the infos, or somebody else ?

EDIT: melly please do it in the thread starter.
The Location
The Intel
The State of mind
The restrictions

That is what i want you guys to figure out,
Light told me he's up for pre Shippuden and that we should decide on the details.
I'm up for anything :p

And Traffy will be the judge
 
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Troyard

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Ok, Melly, i told you to go first on your shiz O_O
 

Melly

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Ok, Melly, i told you to go first on your shiz O_O

I know,
but since you rushed me into making this thread i am making a deal with Ray about that shiz now.

EDIT:

Ĺight and Gutsy Jiraya - Sasuke
Melly and Reyleigh - Naruto

The Location - valley of the end
The Intel - manga
The State of mind - kill
The restrictions- no restrictions

Are ya'll ready?

We'll be taking shifts
Ray will make the first post, then Jiraya, then Melly, then Light.
 
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Melly

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Since Jiraya went afk
Reborn, Light told me you're filling in right?
 

Reborn

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As i'll start first, i'll consider that Naruto has the advantage of going first...
Ok, let's first clear that Naruto and Sasuke's powers are always very close, but with a slight advantage to Naruto.
why?
Sasuke will have troubles dealing with the great mass of shadow clones Naruto can create [ ] as Kimimaro, who is considered the wielder of one of the greatest Taijutsu abilities, had some troubles dealing with them and it took him quite a long time.
Despite his sharingan's prediction abilities, you can't deny that he will face some serious problems with the clones who can attack him together and completely overwhelm him until he dies.

Sasuke's second problem would be the Kyuubi chakra, we know it increases Naruto's speed capacities and boost his strengh [ ] [ ], and the sharingan wouldn't be enough for Sasuke to dodge 2t Naruto attacks as his bijuu chakra can freely move on it's own, which make it even harder for Sasuke to react. [ ]
the cloth will also make a good counter for the CM, as both of them provide extra chakra for the user, but the Kyuubi chakra is superior for it's strengh and speed capacitites that grants them to Naruto upon the activation.

I don't have time for links, or anything really. This is a quicky.
____________________

To address what you first said. Naruto and Sasuke's power have never been even remotely close to one another. Rather, I shouldn't say power I should say a combination and balance of the two. If we talk about raw untamed power, Naruto takes this without a doubt. His Kyuubi chakra and natural high reserves of chakra give him much greater potential for higher scaled power techniques. However if we talk about skill Naruto pales in comparison to Sasuke. However the harmony between power and skill is on a higher scale with Sasuke in part 1. Pre Shippuden Sasuke has:

Curse Seal of Heaven
Fully realized Sharingan
Duel elemental manipulation

This is all of his general power. With the curse seal of Heaven, Sasuke has willful manipulation and access to the power. The sealing Kakashi put on Sasuke was only as strong as his will. Take Sasuke's will to surpress the power away and Sasuke can access that power without any limitations. The curse seal grants an unbelievable amount of power and the Curse Seals of Heaven and Earth are noted as Orochimaru's most powerful Juinjutsu. Not only that, but the Juinjutsu grants the the shinobi at the end of the seal the power of the sealer. Meaning, Orochimaru's pseudo-Sage mode power is within Sasuke pre-shippuden.

When I say fully realized Sharingan I mean the average expected level of dojutsu which excludes Mangekyou and Eternal Mangekyou. Copy abilities, perceptional abilities, one of the three great dojutsu is fully realized within Sasuke in pre shippuden. If I recall corretly the Sharingan slows the actions of the aggressor allowing the user to visualize what is happening. That is their perceptual powers allowing them to see in greater detail in a somewhat, slow motion. As the Sharingan develops (one tome, two tome, three tome) the user sees even more. It doesn't matter though, unless the user can keep up with the speed of their opponent. But none the less, it give the user that advantage in perception. Though, Sasuke has always been a natural quick shinobi. He easily mimicked Dancing Leaf after seeing the technique once with Lee and later, had the speed to get through Gaara's defenses which was lee's equivalent without gates and with the leg weights taken off.

Duel elemental manipulation, something attributed to jounin level shinobi. Uchihas with their natural fire affinity was developed within Sasuke at an early age. C-ranked chuunin level techniques were in Sasuke's arsonal before he was even an genin graduate from the academy. Then Sasuke went on to learn a jounin level technique in a month of a completely different element under Kakashi.

That is what we have on Sasuke's power. I won't go into much detail about Naruto's power since we dont' have time for that and Naruto is your argument. I'll give you a base and you expand.

Chakra Reserves
Kyuubi Chakra
Shadow Clones

Uzumaki=insanely high natural reserves, Kyuubi chakra only further enhances that. Kyuubi chakra cna be access to the most rudimentary level at the end of Part 1 but accessed none the less. What this means is a drastic boost in speed and power phsycally and the advantages of healing quickly.

Shadow clones=hundreds.

Power on both sides, Naruto has the advantage but Sasuke is insanely gifted and powerful in his own right, far beyond the scope of most jounin (as is Naruto)

However, now we factor into the equation skill. I'm going to quote the english dub of Sasuke vs. Naruto in the valley of ends for a mere refrance. 0x1000 is still 0 or something like that. What Sasuke was saying, with not skill and just raw power you're much less of a threat. Naruto had learned Rasengan, which is a testiment of skill all in itself, however Sasuke has always trumped Naruto in skill.

Sasuke defeated Naruto effortlessly in taijutsu back in the academy, had natual skills in weaponry, basic shinobi tactics. While naruto froze on his first mission, Sasuke successfuly held his own agaist 2 chuunin level shinobi. When he met with Haku for the second time and actually fought him, Sasuke managed to keep up with his speed for the most part (until he reached the ice mirrors) and he even had strategy to work with as far as tracking his speed. The duel elemental training, we'll go back to that. As I said before, Chuunin level techniques before even being a genin. Then jounin level techniques as a genin. He managed to managed to go toe to toe with Gaara in the chuunin exams from the get go. He took down Temari easily in his pursuit of Gaara. Not only that, but we've seen the feats of Naruto and his clones against Sasuke. Sasuke's wide aray of Fire jutsu allowed him to take out several dozen shadow clones at once. As well, his taijutsu still proved to be at a much higher scale than Naruto's allowing him to make it easy for him.

On a quick tangent, Just how Kakashi took down clones effortlessly in Shippuden when Naruto returned, Sasuke was doing the same exact thing.

Naruto's fighting style until recnet events in shippuden has been head first, power house. He's been using power and bulldozing his way through his enemy trying to overwhelm them

Sasuke's skill is far superior and his level of power grants him the vantage point since it is indeed near the level of power naruto has. Sasuke was more balanced and therefore he was at the vantage point in a fight, not Naruto.

If I remember correctly, once Saske had the Curse seal partially activated, and his Sharingan fully realized, he had no problems keeping up with the speed of Naruto with his base Kyuubi cloak. Since the Curse seal grants enhanced speed and power, just like the Kyuubi cloak, that puts Naruto and Sasuke on equal grounds in the power department when both are active. Add the Sharingan, Sasuke's arsonal of large scale fire techniques, Chidori, innate skill as an Uchiha and prodigy, Sasuke is much more likely a victor than Naruto.
 

Obito3631

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Naruto stomps, gamabunta would do the job for him.
 

nagger97

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Naruto would win because of gamabunta, the only reason why naruto didnt summon gamabunta was because he didnt want to kill sasuke he wanted to restrain him, so he can take him back to the village
 

Melly

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I don't have time for links, or anything really. This is a quicky.
____________________

To address what you first said. Naruto and Sasuke's power have never been even remotely close to one another. Rather, I shouldn't say power I should say a combination and balance of the two. If we talk about raw untamed power, Naruto takes this without a doubt. His Kyuubi chakra and natural high reserves of chakra give him much greater potential for higher scaled power techniques. However if we talk about skill Naruto pales in comparison to Sasuke. However the harmony between power and skill is on a higher scale with Sasuke in part 1. Pre Shippuden Sasuke has:

Curse Seal of Heaven
Fully realized Sharingan
Duel elemental manipulation

This is all of his general power. With the curse seal of Heaven, Sasuke has willful manipulation and access to the power. The sealing Kakashi put on Sasuke was only as strong as his will. Take Sasuke's will to surpress the power away and Sasuke can access that power without any limitations. The curse seal grants an unbelievable amount of power and the Curse Seals of Heaven and Earth are noted as Orochimaru's most powerful Juinjutsu. Not only that, but the Juinjutsu grants the the shinobi at the end of the seal the power of the sealer. Meaning, Orochimaru's pseudo-Sage mode power is within Sasuke pre-shippuden.

When I say fully realized Sharingan I mean the average expected level of dojutsu which excludes Mangekyou and Eternal Mangekyou. Copy abilities, perceptional abilities, one of the three great dojutsu is fully realized within Sasuke in pre shippuden. If I recall corretly the Sharingan slows the actions of the aggressor allowing the user to visualize what is happening. That is their perceptual powers allowing them to see in greater detail in a somewhat, slow motion. As the Sharingan develops (one tome, two tome, three tome) the user sees even more. It doesn't matter though, unless the user can keep up with the speed of their opponent. But none the less, it give the user that advantage in perception. Though, Sasuke has always been a natural quick shinobi. He easily mimicked Dancing Leaf after seeing the technique once with Lee and later, had the speed to get through Gaara's defenses which was lee's equivalent without gates and with the leg weights taken off.

Duel elemental manipulation, something attributed to jounin level shinobi. Uchihas with their natural fire affinity was developed within Sasuke at an early age. C-ranked chuunin level techniques were in Sasuke's arsonal before he was even an genin graduate from the academy. Then Sasuke went on to learn a jounin level technique in a month of a completely different element under Kakashi.

That is what we have on Sasuke's power. I won't go into much detail about Naruto's power since we dont' have time for that and Naruto is your argument. I'll give you a base and you expand.

Chakra Reserves
Kyuubi Chakra
Shadow Clones

Uzumaki=insanely high natural reserves, Kyuubi chakra only further enhances that. Kyuubi chakra cna be access to the most rudimentary level at the end of Part 1 but accessed none the less. What this means is a drastic boost in speed and power phsycally and the advantages of healing quickly.

Shadow clones=hundreds.

Power on both sides, Naruto has the advantage but Sasuke is insanely gifted and powerful in his own right, far beyond the scope of most jounin (as is Naruto)

However, now we factor into the equation skill. I'm going to quote the english dub of Sasuke vs. Naruto in the valley of ends for a mere refrance. 0x1000 is still 0 or something like that. What Sasuke was saying, with not skill and just raw power you're much less of a threat. Naruto had learned Rasengan, which is a testiment of skill all in itself, however Sasuke has always trumped Naruto in skill.

Sasuke defeated Naruto effortlessly in taijutsu back in the academy, had natual skills in weaponry, basic shinobi tactics. While naruto froze on his first mission, Sasuke successfuly held his own agaist 2 chuunin level shinobi. When he met with Haku for the second time and actually fought him, Sasuke managed to keep up with his speed for the most part (until he reached the ice mirrors) and he even had strategy to work with as far as tracking his speed. The duel elemental training, we'll go back to that. As I said before, Chuunin level techniques before even being a genin. Then jounin level techniques as a genin. He managed to managed to go toe to toe with Gaara in the chuunin exams from the get go. He took down Temari easily in his pursuit of Gaara. Not only that, but we've seen the feats of Naruto and his clones against Sasuke. Sasuke's wide aray of Fire jutsu allowed him to take out several dozen shadow clones at once. As well, his taijutsu still proved to be at a much higher scale than Naruto's allowing him to make it easy for him.

On a quick tangent, Just how Kakashi took down clones effortlessly in Shippuden when Naruto returned, Sasuke was doing the same exact thing.

Naruto's fighting style until recnet events in shippuden has been head first, power house. He's been using power and bulldozing his way through his enemy trying to overwhelm them

Sasuke's skill is far superior and his level of power grants him the vantage point since it is indeed near the level of power naruto has. Sasuke was more balanced and therefore he was at the vantage point in a fight, not Naruto.

If I remember correctly, once Saske had the Curse seal partially activated, and his Sharingan fully realized, he had no problems keeping up with the speed of Naruto with his base Kyuubi cloak. Since the Curse seal grants enhanced speed and power, just like the Kyuubi cloak, that puts Naruto and Sasuke on equal grounds in the power department when both are active. Add the Sharingan, Sasuke's arsonal of large scale fire techniques, Chidori, innate skill as an Uchiha and prodigy, Sasuke is much more likely a victor than Naruto.

here's what i can remember so far...i wrote so much more earlier today OTL


Sasuke's skill is in fact greater than Narutos but we have witnessed that, in a lot of situations
Narutos skill and power is increased when he's in big emotional situations



Yes, Sasuke can free his Curse Seal of Heaven with his will power enabling him to
gain access to even more power.
''Orochimaru's pseudo-Sage mode power is within Sasuke pre-shippuden.''
As far as i know, that wasn't mentioned in the manga but it could be possible.
However, Naruto's kyuubi chakra has the same effect as Sasuke's Curse Seal Of Heaven(if not bigger)

True, his sharingan gives him great advantage in battle as he can see the movements of an opponent
but it is basically worthless if he can't follow them.

as seen here, Sasuke could barely dodge naruto's attack even with the sharingan.
or here, where he couldn't dodge at all.

It is true that Sasuke mastered a jounin level jutsu in only a month and that can clearly
prove that he has experience and is a quick learner.
Naruto however, never learned an another element. He only trained shadow clone jutsu and
gained a little experience to learn Rasengan, which is an A-lvl jutsu, in only a week.

Chakra Reserves- as you said, every Uzimaki has a special chakra (Karin, Kushina, Mito) and so
does Naruto.

Kyuubi Chakra- is a very effective power up in speed and in power itself.
he can 'summon' the kyuubi chakra when he is out of his own or when he is on great emotional
situations(like fighting his best friend/rival Sasuke)

Shadow clones- is a high level jutsu that enables the opponent to multiply himself along with
his chakra so a sharingan user(who can see the chakra flow) can't determine which clone is
the original. That is a neat technique to confuse the opponent.

Toad Summons- We can't forget about Naruto's summon Gamabunta.
He would surely give Sasuke some rough time considering his size and strenght.
He also has a small sword carrying on his back (Tanto) and can preform Fire and Water jutsus along
with his oil jutsu which can be used in many ways to defeat an opponent.
 

Troyard

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Yes, you talk about Naruto's large chakra reserve, though, sasuke's intelligence makes up for that. Although he may not have as much as naruto, he uses his more responsible. Naruto is head strong yes, though, he rushes into things and uses his chakra widely. He normally creates shadow clones that are just wasted. Without Kurama i doubt Naruto will have as much chakra. He uses the chakra that he has gained from the Nine-tails, thus giving him all this Chakra.

Though, as i said before, Sasuke has more intelligence. From this, he finds little difficulty in more challenging tasks as seen during his time in the Academy. Scoring the highest in the performance tests and one of the highest in written tests, he easily graduated at the top of his Academy class. Sasuke has great knowledge if not proficiency in many of his clan's techniques, despite his lack of formal training by relying solely on his innate talent and determination. At a young age, it was shown Sasuke practicing the Clan's fireball technique, which was unexpected at his young age. I believe it was age 7 or 8.

On your point about the Kyuubi chakra, without that, Naruto would be nothing. At that age, all Naruto did was depend on the Kyuubi for help. Sasuke later on was bitten by Orochimaru and was given the Curse seal of the Heaven. With the curse seal as reborn said, gives sasuke equal power as naruto in this teal beast cloak form. With the battle at the vally of End, the head don collision of sasuke's CM2 vs Naruto's Chakra cloak was equal. Also, you pointed out that Naruto gain a large amount of power when his emotions are put to the test. Isn't that bad? When he goes too wild, he eventually rampages, eventually hurting the people he care about. Naruto can't control the Kyuubi when in that state, heck he can't control the Kyuubi at all.

On your point about the tracking, remember as the fight continued, Sasuke was able to adapt. Looking at this video 5:02, it was shown that when sasuke activated his 3t, he was able to anticipate Naruto's Movements, initially catching his fist and using the situation to his advantage. You also spoke abut the large mass of shadow clones. Watch the video from the 5:30 and you'll see how Sasuke was able to handle naruto's movements and his barrage of clones that were shot out the water.



Ok, now to deal with the toads. Even though at the time Sasuke was not able to sign his own contract of his own, it's no doubt that Sasuke would be able to handle the toads. Also, how often did naruto use the toads in part 1? I only recollect him summoning them with The pervy sage that once, and not again? Also, Gamabunta produced Oil, not fire. His affinity is Water, and awind. His son Gamakichi produced Fire. Also, Jiraiya is the one who normally adds the fire to the technqie conjoining with Gama's oil. As Naruto can't summon the toads with his own power, but he needs the Kyuubi's chakra to summon them. Also, Naruto was unable to handle sasuke's Taijutsu taijutsu as sasuke mimicked Lee. While Naruto, could hardly handle lee's leaf whirlwind. We're all taking about Naruto's great abilities but what about sasuke's Chidori? The way Sasuke uses chidori against garra was brilliant. Sasuke was able to move at such speeds that dazzled Gai, the master of faster himself. Sasuke's sharigan is also a force to be massed with. Also, what about his Shurrikenjutsu? He was able to manipulate shurrikens at a young age, just like his older brother Itach, who was said to be a genius.

Not as much as Reborn, but off what i remember.
 
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Reborn

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Reborn debating ? This is a rare thing indeed xD

Not my choice, I was begged to come here

Dayum, he's good!

NK is much better than I am.
Yes, you talk about Naruto's large chakra reserve, though, sasuke's intelligence makes up for that. Although he may not have as much as naruto, he uses his more responsible. Naruto is head strong yes, though, he rushes into things and uses his chakra widely. He normally creates shadow clones that are just wasted. Without Kurama i doubt Naruto will have as much chakra. He uses the chakra that he has gained from the Nine-tails, thus giving him all this Chakra.

Though, as i said before, Sasuke has more intelligence. From this, he finds little difficulty in more challenging tasks as seen during his time in the Academy. Scoring the highest in the performance tests and one of the highest in written tests, he easily graduated at the top of his Academy class. Sasuke has great knowledge if not proficiency in many of his clan's techniques, despite his lack of formal training by relying solely on his innate talent and determination. At a young age, it was shown Sasuke practicing the Clan's fireball technique, which was unexpected at his young age. I believe it was age 7 or 8.

On your point about the Kyuubi chakra, without that, Naruto would be nothing. At that age, all Naruto did was depend on the Kyuubi for help. Sasuke later on was bitten by Orochimaru and was given the Curse seal of the Heaven. With the curse seal as reborn said, gives sasuke equal power as naruto in this teal beast cloak form. With the battle at the vally of End, the head don collision of sasuke's CM2 vs Naruto's Chakra cloak was equal. Also, you pointed out that Naruto gain a large amount of power when his emotions are put to the test. Isn't that bad? When he goes too wild, he eventually rampages, eventually hurting the people he care about. Naruto can't control the Kyuubi when in that state, heck he can't control the Kyuubi at all.

On your point about the tracking, remember as the fight continued, Sasuke was able to adapt. Looking at this video 5:02, it was shown that when sasuke activated his 3t, he was able to anticipate Naruto's Movements, initially catching his fist and using the situation to his advantage. You also spoke abut the large mass of shadow clones. Watch the video from the 5:30 and you'll see how Sasuke was able to handle naruto's movements and his barrage of clones that were shot out the water.



Ok, now to deal with the toads. Even though at the time Sasuke was not able to sign his own contract of his own, it's no doubt that Sasuke would be able to handle the toads. Also, how often did naruto use the toads in part 1? I only recollect him summoning them with The pervy sage that once, and not again? As Naruto can't summon the toads with his own power, but he needs the Kyuubi's chakra to summon them. Also, Naruto was unable to handle sasuke's Taijutsu taijutsu as sasuke mimicked Lee. While Naruto, could hardly handle lee's leaf whirlwind. We're all taking about Naruto's great abilities but what about sasuke's Chidori? The way Sasuke uses chidori against garra was brilliant. Sasuke was able to move at such speeds that dazzled Gai, the master of faster himself. Sasuke's sharigan is also a force to be massed with. Also, what about his Shurrikenjutsu? He was able to manipulate shurrikens at a young age, just like his older brother Itach, who was said to be a genius.

Not as much as Reborn, but off what i remember.

Forgot some things but it's sound enough.
 
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