Debate: Invisibleman (Onoki) vs Akasuna (Gai)

[LuckyMan]

InvisibleMan (Onoki) vs. Akasuna (Gai)​

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VS

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Location: Sasuke vs Deidara

Intel: Manga

Starting Distance: 25 Meters (75 feet)

Restrictions: Eight Gate Release, Onoki's back does not give out

Judges: Centurion, Yolobito Swagchiha, Prince Charles, EjBlack, Apex

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

I'll judge if ye' want me to.

 

[Joki Boi]

Gai can use Geppo even without the eighth gate.

 

[Akasuna]

Can't wait to see your opener.

 

[Beans2]

Haha, I know exactly Akasuna's strategy.

 

[LuckyMan]

I can't open anything if we have no judges. I only have 1 so far.

 

[Akasuna]

Haha, I know exactly Akasuna's strategy.

Lol, no you don't.

 

[Yolobito Swagchiha]

...I was literally just about to make an Onoki vs. Gai thread. :|

OT: I'll judge.

 

[Beans2]

Lol, no you don't.

it's not the same strategy you were using in our 3v3 debate, in which onoki was on my team and gai was on yours?

 

[LuckyMan]

...I was literally just about to make an Onoki vs. Gai thread. :|

OT: I'll judge.

Well thats 2 now.

How many more should I get, at least 5?

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

...I was literally just about to make an Onoki vs. Gai thread. :|

OT: I'll judge.

He literally was...

 

[Akasuna]

it's not the same strategy you were using in our 3v3 debate, in which onoki was on my team and gai was on yours?

Nope. Definitely not. Lol

 

[LuckyMan]

Opening Statement:

This is a fight between Onoki and Gai. Its extremely likely that because Onoki was a commander in the Allied Forces and helped make up the squads he knows Gai specializes in Taijutsu at the least, but nothing more. The same goes for Gai, being that he is a competent Jounin he would already presume the Tsuchikage has Earth Style jutsu, but nothing more.

Light/Ultra Weight Switcheroo Combo:

The starting distance for this fight is 75 feet (25 meters). While most would think base Gai could blitz Onoki, let me reveal to you that he can't. First, base Gai trying to blitz will be ineffective because Onoki can fly. You might think that Gai would be able to reach him in time before he gets to a decent height but that won't happen either.

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Deidara was less than 5 meters away from Team Gai and still managed to outmaneuver all of them and escape to the safety to his clay bird

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.

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Onoki easily matches the speed of Deidara and is even a bit faster than him shown

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how be managed to blitz them both. One might say Deidara planned to let Onoki hit his clone but it still does not change the fact Onoki straight up blitzed him, the punch was weak, but the point is Onoki blitzed clone Deidara and real Deidara had to use that diversion to even land an attack on clone Onoki. He could not do it otherwise straightforward like Onoki did because he is not as fast as he is. Now with that said base Gai is not blitzing Onoki at all and by the time he opens the Gates Onoki is already at an unreachable height to attack altogether.

Okay so now thats established, on to the Switcheroo Combo. This combo revolves around Onoki's Light/Ultra Weight Jutsu. Soon as fight begins Onoki first makes 2 Rock Clones, he can make at least 4 as shown

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. Gai does not know which Onoki is the real one now. One clone flys to Gai. Gai does not know Taijutsu is not Onoki's strong suit and just how be blitzed Kabuto and Deidara, he can attack base Gai the same way but instead the moment he lays a hand on Gai the Ultra Heavy Weight Jutsu activates rendering Gai unable to move whatsoever such as

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and

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. The reason this is highly likely to happen is because Gai's only response to a taijutsu blitz by Onoki would be to counter with his own Taijutsu and once he touches Gai the fight is finished.

If Gai does manage to open 6th or 7th gate, since thats the only thing that will be even useful to him, and try to blitz Onoki, remember there are 3 Onoki, the real one and the 2 Rock Clones that Gai cant tell the difference apart. Even if he crushes one of the Rock Clones with super fast attacks, which is highly likely to occur given his immense speed he still has to come in physical contact with him and when Onoki touches him he is rendered useless, unable to move, and the fight is over. Or right when he comes into contact with the real onoki by chance he uses Ultra Light Weight Jutsu making his punch light as feather and instantly making him too heavy to move right afterwards. This is if Gai chooses to open the 6th Gate that is.

This is the end of my opener and just 1 scenario of how Onoki wins this fight. I did not even mention Dust Style because so far its really not needed against a Taijutsu only fighter such as Gai. I will save my Dust Style etc. scenarios for latter purposes, if push comes to shove and I actually have to use them.

Go.

 

[Apêx1]

I'll judge this incase you are still in need of a judge.

 

[Touken]

Urgh, I hate official debates. It's all about who can utilize the best fan-fic strategies, but anyway, GL to both debaters.

 

[UchihaNagashi]

Urgh, I hate official debates. It's all about who can utilize the best fan-fic strategies, but anyway, GL to both debaters.

Gosh, such a hater. ._.

 

[elsepa]

Urgh, I hate official debates. It's all about who can utilize the best fan-fic strategies, but anyway, GL to both debaters.

You read my mind

 

[Akasuna]

The starting distance for this fight is 75 feet (25 meters). While most would think base Gai could blitz Onoki, let me reveal to you that he can't. First, base Gai trying to blitz will be ineffective because Onoki can fly. You might think that Gai would be able to reach him in time before he gets to a decent height but that won't happen either.

Gai will certainly be able to close to distance at least before Ōnoki reaches unreachable heights - but as I am about to explore, no heights are unreachable for Gai.

We know that in his Gated forms, Gai gains access to his mad hopz [

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-

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]. Ōnoki won't be expecting this; he'll have no reason to. Even in the air, he's not safe from Gai's strikes. It's also noteworthy that Gai is capable of activating the Gates

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: even if he doesn't begin the battle in his Gated form, he can easily open them upon simply jumping.

Here Deidara was less than 5 meters away from Team Gai and still managed to outmaneuver all of them and escape to the safety to his clay bird here.

Gai wasn't even Gated, and didn't focus on Deidara specifically. In his Seventh Gate, he was able to react to and intercept the Truth Seeking Balls [

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-

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], which are canonically

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. Ōnoki won't be able to react to his speed, not even slightly. Even in base he was capable of intercepting Kisame before he could strike Kakashi [

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-

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]

Gai does not know which Onoki is the real one now. One clone flys to Gai. Gai does not know Taijutsu is not Onoki's strong suit and just how be blitzed Kabuto and Deidara, he can attack base Gai the same way but instead the moment he lays a hand on Gai the Ultra Heavy Weight Jutsu activates rendering Gai unable to move whatsoever such as this and this.

This strategy would certainly be effective if Gai didn't have his Sōshūga.

As we've seen, usage of these weapons allows Gai to effectively attack without making direct contact himself with the opponent's being [

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-

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]; his strength with said weapons is enough to

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Kisame's Samehada and even smash several large boulders to pieces. Ōnoki needs direct contact with his opponent in order to effectively increase or decrease their weight. He won't be able to do so if Gai is decimating his clones with Nuchaku.

Or right when he comes into contact with the real onoki by chance he uses Ultra Light Weight Jutsu making his punch light as feather and instantly making him too heavy to move right afterwards. This is if Gai chooses to open the 6th Gate that is.

I've already established that Gai most definitely has the reactions to avoid direct contact with Onoki, lightened or not. More likely, Gai smashes the real Onoki to pieces with his Sōshūga following the immediate termination of his rock clones. Mind you, Onoki is capable of making physical contact with his opponent without automatically making them heavier; he's required to mold chakra. Opponents have made physical contact with him, and they weren't automatically made heavier. Once the battle reaches the point of CQC, Onoki has no chance at survival. I think it's safe to say that Jinton, a technique that requires suitable prep, won't even be a factor versus Gai; even if it is a factor, I have several counters to it that I'll bring up if you post a viable way Onoki can utilize the technique.

---

I'll go more on the offensive with my next post; I'm a bit worn out at this current moment, and you didn't give me all that much material to counter.

 

[LuckyMan]

Gai will certainly be able to close to distance at least before Ōnoki reaches unreachable heights - but as I am about to explore, no heights are unreachable for Gai.

We know that in his Gated forms, Gai gains access to his mad hopz [

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-

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]. Ōnoki won't be expecting this; he'll have no reason to. Even in the air, he's not safe from Gai's strikes. It's also noteworthy that Gai is capable of activating the Gates

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: even if he doesn't begin the battle in his Gated form, he can easily open them upon simply jumping.

I agree, in Gated form Gai has incredible hops but not as good as you think. Gai was thrown high and far by Gyukis arm to even achieve the feat you linked, a feat that would have been impossible if not for Gyuki

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. Once he was already at an incredible height from Gyuki throwing him he then summoned his turtle and further boosted himself into the sky but like I said, it never would have occurred if not for Gyuki.

Gai wasn't even Gated, and didn't focus on Deidara specifically. In his Seventh Gate, he was able to react to and intercept the Truth Seeking Balls [

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-

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], which are canonically

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.

Ōnoki won't be able to react to his speed, not even slightly. Even in base he was capable of intercepting Kisame before he could strike Kakashi [

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-

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]

Exactly, Gai was not Gated and he is not Gated at the start of this fight. Saying Gai did not focus Deidara specifically is a really weak argument concerning this specific issue. Why would he not focus Deidara, the only enemy in the area? Who else was there that was more important that Gai had to take his focus off of the Akatsuki guy? He said so himself ''Nice work neji'' on locating Deidara so him not focusing Deidara specifically is just wrong. He was right in Deidaras face and got out-speeded by him in his base form. Don't say Gai was already scuffed up and tired from fighting his doppelganger, Deidara was in a far worse condition, both his arms had been ripped off his torso.

Him intercepting Kisame is not an impressive feat either, Kurenai and Asuma could have done the same, they just had their eyes closed not to get caught in Itachis genjutsu so they did not see him attacking. Kisame is also not a very fast shinobi, he has good fight speed because he is a legendary swordsmen but fight speed is not movement speed. I will explain to you the difference between these two if it comes to it.

You are underestimating Onoki's movement speed. Onoki does not move on his feet because of his back problems. Being on your feet all day can cause your back problems and his back was prone to give out any time during battle already therefore his basic means of movement is flight. Think about it. Onoki has never moved on his feet in the entire series, he always flies to where he has to go then lands, and when he needs to move again, he flies. That is his movement speed and that is all we have to judge on how fast he is. I already established how fast he is in flight and how Deidara out speeding base Gai proves that Onoki will do the same. Even if he opens the 6th or 7th Gate its not happening in 1 second, it takes him at least 5 or more seconds to open both of those Gates and in that time Onoki will fly up high, while forming Dust Style to finish him off.

This strategy would certainly be effective if Gai didn't have his Sōshūga.

As we've seen, usage of these weapons allows Gai to effectively attack without making direct contact himself with the opponent's being [

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-

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]; his strength with said weapons is enough to

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Kisame's Samehada and even smash several large boulders to pieces.

Ōnoki needs direct contact with his opponent in order to effectively increase or decrease their weight. He won't be able to do so if Gai is decimating his clones with Nuchaku.

This is true but remember I told you Onoki will make 2 clones, him fighting the clones leaves him open to get hit with a Dust Style. This is a different story though and needs an entire section on itself so I will address this later.

I've already established that Gai most definitely has the reactions to avoid direct contact with Onoki, lightened or not. More likely, Gai smashes the real Onoki to pieces with his Sōshūga following the immediate termination of his rock clones. Mind you, Onoki is capable of making physical contact with his opponent without automatically making them heavier; he's required to mold chakra. Opponents have made physical contact with him, and they weren't automatically made heavier. Once the battle reaches the point of CQC, Onoki has no chance at survival. I think it's safe to say that Jinton, a technique that requires suitable prep, won't even be a factor versus Gai; even if it is a factor, I have several counters to it that I'll bring up if you post a viable way Onoki can utilize the technique.

Time for me to go to my next scenario. I actually had the Rock Golem and Moving Earth Core finishers to talk about next but I will skip those because theres no point in me discussing them especially since Dust Style guarantees Onokis victory.

Dust Style in One Shot:

For some reason there is this strange myth going around that Onokis Dust Style needs prep time. I believe this myth surfaced when Onoki charged his Super Dust Style versus Madara. Tsunade was feeding Onoki chakra and yes, it took time because he had to charge it and make it large enough to destroy all 25 Susanoo Madara in one-shot. If Onoki is just hitting one target, his dust style shoots fast shown

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. It shot so fast Sasuke who had the Mangekyo Sharingan did not dodge it even though he should have saw it before it even happened with his Sharingan. He had also just received a big chakra boost from the Kage and their guards in the room from Zetsu so there was no excuse why he didn't see it with his sharingan before and dodge/evade, he simply couldn't.

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Muu notices Onoki is above him and then they both shoot Dust Style

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. How is that slow? What was the prep time?

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he gets up and instantly releases a huge Dust Style destroying Madaras forest of trees. Where is the prep time? Thats slow to you?

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and

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he shoots Madara with Dust Style. Explain to me if you think that is slow. If his Dust Style was as slow as so many seem to believe then it would be useless in high paced battles altogether. Don't all jutsu need prep time, the time being the hand seals used to execute them? If anything Onokis executes Dust Style faster than most shinobi jutsu because it requires no hand seals, just him putting his hands up and it materializes instantly. Like I said, the prep time myth came from the final Dust Style he used versus Madara but that one was of a large scale he charged up because it was his final attack and its mainly used as an excuse in versus threads to downplay Onokis ability to wipe out a shinobi quickly or why the jutsu is no use in a fight for him. He executes it fast, as I just showed you.

So when the battle begins Onoki creates 1 Rock Clone. Immediately after creating this clone they both activate Dust Style with the real Onoki flying up while the clone is still on the ground. In the time that this occurs, Gai would most likely be opening the Gates. Even if he kills the Rock Clone Onoki before it Dust Styles him on the ground, the real Onoki is high above and when that clone is destroyed all that chakra returns to real Onoki who can then boost up to a Super Dust Style that will certainly kill Gai, whether he is 6th or 7th gate form because it has enough power to vaporize the entire Turtle Island, an area far larger than where this fight takes place (Sasuke vs Deidara). Now let me list a few points you might try to counter with.

Gates Blitz: If Gai does open the 6th or 7th Gate he would have to kill Rock Clone Onoki on the ground first because he is about to shoot him with Dust Style, that leaves Real Onoki in the sky to one shot him.

Turtle Boost: If Gai plans on summoning his turtle to try and attack Real Onoki in the air, (which he can't even reach without something like Gyukis help as I showed earlier because Onoki will be high in sky) Clone Onoki still one shots him from the ground.

Day Time Tiger: If Gai goes straight into the 7th Gate, he only has one shot to beat Onoki, and its no guarantee he will kill Onoki. After Day Time Tiger from 7th Gate he is left exhausted and barely able to move. When he used it on Madara and tanked his own Day Time Tiger, it cant be used as evidence of him being able to move afterwards because he was infused with Kuramas chakra like the rest of the alliance were which made his moves more powerful and protected him to an extent from damage. Even when the panels showed the cloak gone, it was never fully gone at all from any of the shinobi as Sakura mentioned

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. In some panels we saw shinobi with no Kyuubi cloak but it only decreased in size to where it was unnoticeable by the eye but it was never fully gone.

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Shikamaru mentions that the chakra he gave everyone vanished when the God Tree was cut down and that was after Gai fought Madara so up until the tree was cut down, all the shinobi still had a Kyuubi Cloak, including Gai himself even if it was so small the naked eye could not notice. Therefore, Gai using Day Time Tiger without aid of a outside power like Kurama will result in him being in a state when he used it versus Kisame, exhausted, muscles torn, and barely able to move.

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right after they defeated and trapped Kisame they were all caught in his booby-trapped Water Prison. Notice he says the 7th gate exhausted him so he could not do anything, not even open the 6th or lesser Gates to escape the prison and also notice the ''Gurgle'' at the end of his line, he is drowning, so exhausted he cant even talk and hold his breath like the other shinobi are. This was some time after opening the 7th Gate where he would have already started recovering but even at that point, he was useless. By that, him doing anything right after shooting Day Time Tiger is not happening because he couldn't do anything still after all that time had passed. That is why he only has 1 shot to beat Onoki with it, if he fails he loses the fight.

Now what I have established that Gai only has 1 shot for Day Time Tiger let me explain now how Onoki could potentially tank or dismantle it, yes I said tank and dismantle, and end the fight right after.

Tanking/Dismantling Day Time Tiger:

Onoki is quite the durable man for his age. Yes his body is frail and he is small in stature but his body is certainly strong. How strong? Strong enough to tank 2 Meteorites from Madara.

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you can see just how fast the meteorite is coming down by the air around it. Onoki flew up to it and gripped it with his hands. Because of the speed at which this large object was falling, he still should have been injured badly, at least both his arms broken completely, maybe even torn off his body altogether because he had to grip it

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to use his Ultra Light Weight Jutsu and the force that hit him while doing that should have been more than enough to overwhelm his frail arms yet it did not.

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you see Onoki was directly under the meteorite when the second hit it and made its impact to the ground. That much force and power should have killed him off. Obviously he did not tank the full damage completely without any defense otherwise he would have been completely killed off like Madara and Muu were

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.

Even though it happened off screen, the only plausible explanation of him surviving was his Rock Fist technique where he covers his arm in Rock but instead he shielded his whole body with Rock to tank the attack. Just because he only covered his arm in rock does not mean he can't cover his entire body with it. However, he still should have been killed... two meteorites that large, and he was directly under it head first touching the stone!! He received the most damage and full power of the attack than everyone in the alliance yet he was not killed when many other fodders were killed off, Gaara+Temari survived with his sand, Naruto+Dodai survived encased in that elastic rubber ball. So, its possible that Onoki can potentially tank the Day Time Tiger because Madara's meteorites are much more powerful in destructive force than that. Yes, I know it shoots really fast, but how fast? Kisame still had enough time to charge and shoot his Mega Shark Bullet and it arrived same time Day Time Tiger was shot so its very safe to say Onoki can encase his body with enough rock before the attack actually hits him and tank the most of the damage, still hurt, but can still fight when Gai won't be able to at least not good enough to win anymore. This is very situationtional but it can happen.

I listed the situational one first, him tanking it, now I will list exactly the way he dismantles Day Time Tiger.

What is Day Time Tiger exactly? It is nothing more than a massive amount of compressed air pressure shot at the enemy then that pressure explodes after it comes in contact with said target. The name of Onoki's jutsu is literally Particle Style: Atomic Dismantling Jutsu. It dismantles/vaporizes things to the size of atoms, invisible to the naked eye, there is nothing left of anything it hits. What is air pressure now? Molecules of gases in the atmosphere, Nitrogen, Oxygen, Helium, Carbon Dioxide, Methane, etc. Gai is shooting a huge compressed amount of all those combined molecules at once, so much that you can actually see it clearly with the naked eye and it is huge in size. Onokis Dust Style will dismantle Day Time Tiger because molecules are lots of atoms combined, meaning the Day Time Tiger being only air pressure, can still be dismantled down to mere atoms and the force dissipated completely. Just think about it, when Onoki shoots

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and it collides with Day Time Tiger like

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. When they collide the Day Time Tigers force will be dismantled and dissipated down to atoms making it no more and Gai is one shotted. It erases all things to atoms so why would air pressure, made from many gas molecules be an exception to this? Its not. And don't tell me Day Time Tiger is too fast for I already established how fast Onoki executes Dust Style and how Kisame had enough time for his Mega Shark Bomb, Onoki will certainly fire his jutsu off in time to counter it. As soon as it reaches inside the cube, cone, or cylinder Onoki shoots the force is dismantled as it goes further in yet Onokis attack still shooting at Gai, thus killing him.

So, as soon as fight begins Onoki flys up with his clone on the ground as I already explained. Either way it goes, the Dust Style One shots Gai, battle over.