[DEBATE] Healthy Itachi(TRE MERCER) vs Might Gai(Ezequielosses)
- Thread starter TRE MERCER
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TRE MERCER
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Unorthodox
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Unorthodox
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TRE MERCER
ezequielosses
VERDICT
i warn people it might not be the best judging this is my first time as a judge give me some slack
I think you had very good points throughout both of your post ill break down the good ones in the bad.
(About Itachi being faster than base Gai) You claim that keeping up with Naruto was an impressive speed feat that should put Itachi above base gai yet you ignored the fact that Obito who gai did take on alone for sometime, took on the same Naruto who was using chakra arms with bijuu dama's and had clones out there with him, Which indeed is a far better speed and cqc feat then what Itachi has shown.
I liked you points about how Kisame's 30% Kisame clone was reading gai's 6 gates movements and how pre-cog with sharingan goes hand to hand with there reaction with the scans you posted of Sasuke countering Naruto i give you an A+ on that segment of your post.
I would have to disagree with you on the stamina argument not only did your opposition prove Gai did more taxing things during the war then Itachi did against Sasuke at UHM he proved that gai when healthy can use a combination of 6-7 gates in succession while not being entirely exhausted.
You have good arguments concerning when Itachi would use susanoo and how it would work to his advantage like only using v4 when Gai unleashes his 7 gates and that the gates gives off a big shockwave upon entrance giving Itachi room to whip out Susanoo however i did like how you defended yourself when your opposition was claiming that gai could strike before a v4 susanoo could be used as i explained above but you also showed that the distance between Itachi in sasuke was not that great and the size of kirin moving 1/1000 of second would cover the distance possibly shorter than gai could after the wave of Power from 7 gates. I wish you would have used the Madara using Perfect susanoo scan near instant or even bring up Itachi using yata mirror with v3 susanoo.
You should have not dragged out the genjutsu or finger genjutsu argument those we're really irrelevant in hurted you post but it was not a total waste since it made your opposition take a different approach.
(About Itachi being faster than base Gai) You claim that keeping up with Naruto was an impressive speed feat that should put Itachi above base gai yet you ignored the fact that Obito who gai did take on alone for sometime, took on the same Naruto who was using chakra arms with bijuu dama's and had clones out there with him, Which indeed is a far better speed and cqc feat then what Itachi has shown.
I liked you points about how Kisame's 30% Kisame clone was reading gai's 6 gates movements and how pre-cog with sharingan goes hand to hand with there reaction with the scans you posted of Sasuke countering Naruto i give you an A+ on that segment of your post.
I would have to disagree with you on the stamina argument not only did your opposition prove Gai did more taxing things during the war then Itachi did against Sasuke at UHM he proved that gai when healthy can use a combination of 6-7 gates in succession while not being entirely exhausted.
You have good arguments concerning when Itachi would use susanoo and how it would work to his advantage like only using v4 when Gai unleashes his 7 gates and that the gates gives off a big shockwave upon entrance giving Itachi room to whip out Susanoo however i did like how you defended yourself when your opposition was claiming that gai could strike before a v4 susanoo could be used as i explained above but you also showed that the distance between Itachi in sasuke was not that great and the size of kirin moving 1/1000 of second would cover the distance possibly shorter than gai could after the wave of Power from 7 gates. I wish you would have used the Madara using Perfect susanoo scan near instant or even bring up Itachi using yata mirror with v3 susanoo.
You should have not dragged out the genjutsu or finger genjutsu argument those we're really irrelevant in hurted you post but it was not a total waste since it made your opposition take a different approach.
ezequielosses
I'll Keep this one short.
I completely agree with you on the stamina argument with gai and on the old scans > new scans arguments.
You did surprisingly good on Gai dodging amaterasu argument even i would have pick Amaterasu a game ender with gai using anything bar 7 gates but the way you explained him using 5th or 6th gate to intercept (Which is better than dodging) the godu damas that was faster than kamui which = > Amaterasu speed even though their was no concrete argument considering we never actually saw what gai it was the most logical answer was it was a lower gated form i liked that point I Give you B on that.
Your genjutsu arguments we're air tight especially the focusing chakra into the fingers you literally had me like o shit lol i loved that part of this debate i think you ultimately killed his genjutsu arguments. You also did a very good job with the cqc and speed argument gai has shown insane striking speed that even surpasses Ei even Gaara believed so.
I still have to disagree on what part with the amaterasu part the eye dropping was a little funny because you talked most of this debate about old scans > new scans yet in the newer scans amaterasu was shown not to fall from the user's face while the blood was coming down when they fought Kabuto and both used them on his webs yet you ignored that however you had to counters so that is where i think you made up for it at.
You completely debunked his Kisame arguments and it was a good read also i have to agree with you on war arc gai being much better than early shippuden gai and how you posted that scan with kmc naruto blitzing kisame yet yamoto was able to see him like a yellow flash i thought that was pretty cool. However i felt liked you dodged a couple of things like his crow genjutsu argument and how he actually defeats Itachi (Excluding the outlast argument)
I completely agree with you on the stamina argument with gai and on the old scans > new scans arguments.
You did surprisingly good on Gai dodging amaterasu argument even i would have pick Amaterasu a game ender with gai using anything bar 7 gates but the way you explained him using 5th or 6th gate to intercept (Which is better than dodging) the godu damas that was faster than kamui which = > Amaterasu speed even though their was no concrete argument considering we never actually saw what gai it was the most logical answer was it was a lower gated form i liked that point I Give you B on that.
Your genjutsu arguments we're air tight especially the focusing chakra into the fingers you literally had me like o shit lol i loved that part of this debate i think you ultimately killed his genjutsu arguments. You also did a very good job with the cqc and speed argument gai has shown insane striking speed that even surpasses Ei even Gaara believed so.
I still have to disagree on what part with the amaterasu part the eye dropping was a little funny because you talked most of this debate about old scans > new scans yet in the newer scans amaterasu was shown not to fall from the user's face while the blood was coming down when they fought Kabuto and both used them on his webs yet you ignored that however you had to counters so that is where i think you made up for it at.
You completely debunked his Kisame arguments and it was a good read also i have to agree with you on war arc gai being much better than early shippuden gai and how you posted that scan with kmc naruto blitzing kisame yet yamoto was able to see him like a yellow flash i thought that was pretty cool. However i felt liked you dodged a couple of things like his crow genjutsu argument and how he actually defeats Itachi (Excluding the outlast argument)
VERDICT
ezequielosses wins this and it was not even close not only did he counter about 95% of mercer's arguments they was hard counters to the point where i think if tre mercer had a 3rd post he literally could not say anything without looking like a fool.
i warn people it might not be the best judging this is my first time as a judge give me some slack
BenjerminGaye
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Lord Tywin
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Ezequielosses
Pros:
Tre Mercer
Pros:
I'd like to point out to both debaters that Gai was using 6th gate when he saved Kakashi from Madara's tsb. He was in 6th gate, and then opened up 7th gate. Madara's reaction confirms it that he wasn't using 7th gate when Gai saved Kakashi. 5th gate doesn't have anything to prove Gai is fast enough to intercept a tsb.
Verdict
edit : since this is about who had the better argument, I changed the verdict.
Pros:
- You effectively proved why Gai is superior in cqc with gates and without gates.
- You effectively proved why Gai won't be placed under genjutsu, and why Itachi will have no time casting finger genjutsu in the midst of the fight.
- You were correct that Gai has the superior stamina. He was using 8th gate for a longer period of time than he was using 7th gate, and 8th gate is far more taxing on the body. And this was a Gai that was fighting for 2-3 days in the war.
- You were correct about Gai not needing 7th gate to dodge amaterasu. With his feat against tsb and how
You must be registered for see linksit was to Kakashi he doesn't need 7th gate to dodge amaterasu.
- It was a toss up in the amaterasu counter if Gai's hit. The blood argument was vague, as we've seen different things happen with the eyes bleeding when amaterasu is used. There was no hard counter from you there. Gai is vulnerable to amaterasu if he's not looking at Itachi's eye, and he's susceptible to Tsukuyomi. Gai won't survive an amaterasu burst in the face. Not when his entire face is burning in flames. Gai needs to cross his arms and then open up 7th gate to cause an impulse, which simply won't happen when flames are eating his face.
Tre Mercer
Pros:
- You were correct about Itachi being fast enough to pull out Susanoo to counter 6th gate's moveset.
- You were wrong about Itachi being superior to any version of Gai.
- You were wrong about handling 6th gate in cqc. Being able to see someone's movement speed is different than keeping up with someone in cqc. Ezequielosses explained it correctly.
- You were wrong about the stamina issue. Gai has shown to have better stamina. Ezequielosses explained that as well.
I'd like to point out to both debaters that Gai was using 6th gate when he saved Kakashi from Madara's tsb. He was in 6th gate, and then opened up 7th gate. Madara's reaction confirms it that he wasn't using 7th gate when Gai saved Kakashi. 5th gate doesn't have anything to prove Gai is fast enough to intercept a tsb.
Verdict
Ezequielosses is the winner of this debate. Ezequielosses countered everything Tre Mercer had to offer, but his amaterasu argument was a bit unconvincing. but he countered every other argument soundly.
edit : since this is about who had the better argument, I changed the verdict.
Last edited:
Lord Tywin
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I think if Itachi decides to use Amaterasu at the beginning of the fight it makes other points moot.
That isn't how you judge a debate. It's who had the overall better argument and made their points better. Your judgement clearly tells us you thought Ezequiel made the overall better points, so he should of been awarded the victory. So if Tre's post was;
"Amaterau one shots"
He would of still won?
Lord Tywin
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lmao no. I've said that Amaterasu counter wasn't adequate from Eze. But I suppose you're right, Eze had the better argument.