Debate EJBlack Vs Gakido

[Zexion~]

alright .. this debate should be over gakido needs to hurry

 

[Long Haired Leaf Ninja]

I agree sry if that means I'm being a ****

 

[Brother Numpsay]

I wanted to write down my conclusion right now, but as judges you should take action by your rules and conclude the debate.

 

[Zexion~]

i was going to wait till tonight ... but alrightie

 

[Zexion~]

Ok This debate was not the greatest .. first off the debate lessens when you use that form of posting Counters right under the other debaters point.. Just Post new Posts each argument.. not that using the other debaters quote :/ idk maybe it is just me ...

Anyways Ej you definitely were over rating kabuto's abilities on speculation however gakido did not really prove you wrong .. For instance Kabuto's "hydrafication" if you will is simply used by kabuto utilizing his body fluids like a snake shedding skin... He could not escape PS slash with it or counter the meteor .. it is used for confusing sensors,making sure he is not effected by the vibrations that come with white rage technique and escaping traps, or regenerating body parts ( im 90%) sure on that last one .. And how badly you overrated the sound 5's abilities ...well lets just say it was bad comparing jirobo to a jounin/s rank ninja who can use enough earth style to move the Juubi ? Come on my man that is preposterous.

you were saying that kabuto could simply use his chakra to up the scale of the technique? that takes training if that was the case naruto could make a rasengan as big as the kyuubi it took him 3 years to up the scale of a regular rasengan, kabuto would of had to practice to up the scale of tayuya's genjutsu or kidomaru's webs ... But yet again gakido did not provide a good counter ... although you did have some good points with kabuto's inorganic jutsu but yet again you did not really use it on the offensive .. But

.. And the worst part about it is that you did not even provide a way for kabuto to win!?!?! Not once .. you were on the rebuttal/defensive right from the beginning.. you needed to post some offense to use on madara .. the only thing i saw was Manda 2 and white rage ... One of the few things Gakido did in fact counter was white rage.. if you can prevent the dragon from coiling around the orb the jutsu is innefective which i believe Gakido stated or was trying to say. and your whole argument about the poison was futile .. this is EDO madara , so the body structure would render the poison useless .. even if he can not regenerate

Gakido however did provide offensive and defensive points while they were by no means great he at least stated how madara beats and kills kabuto .. And fairly countered kabuto's moves until you overestimated them :/

Well this is my outcome: Gakido wins .. Too many overestimating by Ej and no offense really so ej it was more you lost the debate then gakido winning

P.S i was busy with RL issues during this debate .. and had to do a fairly rushed full read through of the debate .. if you can prove something i said about you not providing offensive Points by all means provide proof you did and i may reconsider my verdict

 

[Long Haired Leaf Ninja]

I thought you 2 spent too much time arguing about the same things.
Each post both of you made was close to the posts you made before that one. I guess what I'm trying to say is each post seemed like the one before it.
I agree that ej did over hype sum of kabutos jutsu. However it is possible Kabuto could make his attacks bigger with more chakra but I haven't seen him so that makes parts of ej's argument speculation.
Kabutos snake bite could be a good wepon but we haven't seen it used aginst a edo character so it makes it hard to say what the effects would be.
However Kabuto was the one who brought Madara back and made him stronger so it leads me to believe that it would have sum effect on Madara but to a lesser degree as it did to Yamato.
White rage I think would cause sum damage if he got it off but Madara does have high powered attacks that would make it hard for Kabuto to get it off. If he does get it off I think it gets Madara before he can defend it.

In the case of Madara I feel like you kinda over hyped him a lil as well.
He has no intel on Kabuto so it's going to be hard to do all the counters you said he would do.
I think you made the better offensive case. I think Madara has the better jutus's to kill but you didn't take advantage of that.


I feel like this was a tie but ej dictate the debate so my got is for EJBLACK
My vote coulda gone either way but ej seemed like he controlled the pace and was on the attack more.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Ok This debate was not the greatest .. first off the debate lessens when you use that form of posting Counters right under the other debaters point.. Just Post new Posts each argument.. not that using the other debaters quote :/ idk maybe it is just me ...

Anyways Ej you definitely were over rating kabuto's abilities on speculation however gakido did not really prove you wrong .. For instance Kabuto's "hydrafication" if you will is simply used by kabuto utilizing his body fluids like a snake shedding skin... He could not escape PS slash with it or counter the meteor .. it is used for confusing sensors,making sure he is not effected by the vibrations that come with white rage technique and escaping traps, or regenerating body parts ( im 90%) sure on that last one .. And how badly you overrated the sound 5's abilities ...well lets just say it was bad comparing jirobo to a jounin/s rank ninja who can use enough earth style to move the Juubi ? Come on my man that is preposterous.

I think that was the problem when viewing/ skimming through my argument. Was comparing what Jirobo has done with his jutsu then to compare what Kabuto can potentially do with his jutsu's. Its like debating if Sasuke can do a larger Katon then Madara. They both have the same fire jutsu's but one can be better at it. Since Kabuto can be better at use Jirobo's techs, by adding his SM energy to it he can make it bigger (Which I will explain in a sec). Even though it he hasn't show doing it, although it is up to you as the judge to accept it, it should be very reasonable to make such a claim. Kabuto increasing the size of the jutsu wasn't necessary against Sasuke because Sasuke only alter the capacity of his Amatsuru just to cover up his brother for protection. But it is obvious that Sasuke can make his Enton a bit bigger then that one.

you were saying that kabuto could simply use his chakra to up the scale of the technique? that takes training if that was the case naruto could make a rasengan as big as the kyuubi it took him 3 years to up the scale of a regular rasengan, kabuto would of had to practice to up the scale of tayuya's genjutsu or kidomaru's webs ... But yet again gakido did not provide a good counter ... although you did have some good points with kabuto's inorganic jutsu but yet again you did not really use it on the offensive .. But

Ok now this argument of mine needs to be CLEARED up again. Not ONCE was I scaling Kabuto's jutsu to the size of Juubi/PS. I will circle where my argument was targeting (In Spoilers):

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Did you see the circles? That is his feet. My argument was that if he were to every encounter PS his only attack that his Jutsu's scales can actually be useful to go after what I circled(Feet). His feet is NOT the largest thing in the world for any of Kabuto's attacks to be useless against. Thats why I mention Kabuto using Earth style being useful (And that was not the only thing I have mention like Webs on Sassanoo's under arm to counter act as a scrunchie, to reduce the power slash attack and as you mention that was good counter:Inorganic Reanimation). It is reasonable to say he can ATLEAST increase it to the size of Sassano's FOOT SIZE. So I conclude using it on his foot and dis-balance/alter an attack Sassanoo pulls out.


.. And the worst part about it is that you did not even provide a way for kabuto to win!?!?! Not once .. you were on the rebuttal/defensive right from the beginning.. you needed to post some offense to use on madara .. the only thing i saw was Manda 2 and white rage ... One of the few things Gakido did in fact counter was white rage.. if you can prevent the dragon from coiling around the orb the jutsu is innefective which i believe Gakido stated or was trying to say. and your whole argument about the poison was futile .. this is EDO madara , so the body structure would render the poison useless .. even if he can not regenerate

Yes that was my fault, I was honestly trying to write that down for my conclusion on how he defeats Madara. But rules were rules thats why I ask you to continue with the OP conditions. And I am going have disagree with you about Edo's being ineffective on Poison:

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Gakido however did provide offensive and defensive points while they were by no means great he at least stated how madara beats and kills kabuto .. And fairly countered kabuto's moves until you overestimated them :/

Well this is my outcome: Gakido wins .. Too many overestimating by Ej and no offense really so ej it was more you lost the debate then gakido winning

P.S i was busy with RL issues during this debate .. and had to do a fairly rushed full read through of the debate .. if you can prove something i said about you not providing offensive Points by all means provide proof you did and i may reconsider my verdict

So yea I cleared up my points as you said to if you want to reconsider but in all honestly it wouldn't matter if you don't because I am fairly disappoint in myself lol! I wanted to argue about Alive Madara not Edo with unlimted chakra but the defendant already made his arguments so I couldn't ask to change the condition. It was already one-sided to begin with.

Anyway Ill learn from my mistakes and take different approaches/get better.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Just you.

I hate having to scroll up and down.

Bottom line is... you both brought a lot of arguments and did your best to counter each other.

But uh. Madara/EJblack wins, yeah.

Gakido used too many assumptions in his debate and there is no real place for assumptions. You can use them as a suggestion, sure, but basing your argument around them simply won't work.

I was using Kabuto:yeah:

 

[pateuvasiliu]

I was using Kabuto:yeah:

Well, that is awkward.

Pardon my hangover.

Madara wins.

Same reasons as above, minus the name confusion.

To the OP, when you make a debate you usually type it like X vs Y, X's character vs Y's character, not the other way around.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Well, that is awkward.

Pardon my hangover.

Madara wins.

Same reasons as above, minus the name confusion.

To the OP, when you make a debate you usually type it like X vs Y, X's character vs Y's character, not the other way around.

Would you kindly point out the too "many assumptions"

 

[pateuvasiliu]

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First of all, that.

Kabuto never met Hashirama. He never fought him or poisoned him. I find it hard to believe that someone whose blood makes you a shitton stronger, gives you the ability to woodbend, can heal himself with no seals and basically activates Sage Mode in the blink of an eye can be poisoned like that.

So, Kabuto's statement is bollocks to me.

1.) Jirobo: With Kabuto access to this guy he can change the terrace of the battle field with earth release. Creating Holes/Traps, and Walls. Its universally perfect to counter Madara attacks like fire release and especially Sasanoo.(except for PS slash). He also can do everything Jirobo has shown like shaking the ground to lose the opponents balance, Earth Dome, etc.

Well, Madara has Wood Release on an almost Hashi's level and there is no doubt or debate about who wins in a battlefield-changing situation between Wood Release and Earth Release.

Alas, Madara has the Rinnegan and Wood Release so it's obvious he can use Earth Release, too, but I don't like making up feats so I will stick to Wood Release.

While Kabuto has a constant flow of senjutsu chakra coming at him, Madara's chakra is unlimited. Kabuto's body has limits, Madara's has none. He can keep spamming Flower Tree World which -will- break down the cave.

While Madara has not used Banshō Ten'in directly ( Pain's Deva Path Almighty Pull ) his Susanoo uses it when he brings down Meteors. That makes it obvious Madara can also use it.

If Kabuto tries to do a hand sign, he can easily get pulled towards Madara, and that ends up in Kabuto being forced to use the hydrification technique which can easily be evaporated by Madara's huge katons. ( that are as big as the juubi apparently ).

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We all know how water fares against extreme heat.

2.) Kidomaru: With Kabuto access to this guy he can manipulate chakra webs at will. This will be very useful immobilizing Madara attacks. This jutsu cannot be cut by normal means (reasonably PS slash can) it can even make PS movements useless by just sticking them on the under arm, legs and various of places that would make PS attacks dangerous. Sticking would render/reduce the attacks power. By normal means would Fire release do the trick once Madara is stuck with it. Since Sasuke and Itachi couldn't it implies that Blaze release will be enough to take care of it:

You are comparing a sword to Madara's arsenal. A ribcage Susanoo fist crushed the wall of a really solid building. To say that Madara's Susanoo cannot cut through it seems odd.

Additionally, he can simply use Preta Path to absorb the chakra in it and make it just a regular inoffensive web.

Keyword: "Liquid" and "Mine". Not every liquid can be conducted so saying lighting will be its weakness will be consider speculation.

Kabuto uses his own body fluids for that. Unless there is proof that it is immune to lightning you are again making an assumption. The liquids in the human body conduct electricity. Since Kabuto uses his to make himself liquid, logic dictates lightning will work.

3b.) You have also mention Meteors. The fact that his jutsu is very powerful but slow all Kabuto needs to do is Earth release to go underground or turn to a fluid state.

Yeah well Kabuto isn't surviving a meteor, hydrification or not. A meteor obliterates everything it touches, water is not an issue.

As for Madara, he can use his PS to tank it when it comes.

4.) Interesting counter to the cave but Kabuto is able to reanimate it all back if he wanted to. He can also reanimate the ground at will too (Sage Art: Inorganic Reincarnation) so PS will not be able to stable. Example of Sasanoo needs to be balance:

Assumption, again. Sasuke's Susanoo was under the attack of a massive Fuuton.

Madara's is not only stronger and bigger, but Kabuto has nothing on a vacuum scale of Danzo's summon.

Rebuttal of White Rage:
1.)You are considering that Madara even knows what the attack is. Anyway when this move is activate Sasanoo will be useless. TO GO PS HE NEEDS TO STABILIZE IT FIRST. This is important all Sasanoo have stages they don't automatically jump to its final forms. And since stabizling comes first my answer to my counter comes from a Sassano user own words:

White Rage is not a genjutsu but a ninjutsu that creates a blast of light and sound. Preta Path and Deva Path can both nullify it effortlessly.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

First of all, that.

Kabuto never met Hashirama. He never fought him or poisoned him. I find it hard to believe that someone whose blood makes you a shitton stronger, gives you the ability to woodbend, can heal himself with no seals and basically activates Sage Mode in the blink of an eye can be poisoned like that.

So, Kabuto's statement is bollocks to me.



Well, Madara has Wood Release on an almost Hashi's level and there is no doubt or debate about who wins in a battlefield-changing situation between Wood Release and Earth Release.

Alas, Madara has the Rinnegan and Wood Release so it's obvious he can use Earth Release, too, but I don't like making up feats so I will stick to Wood Release.

While Kabuto has a constant flow of senjutsu chakra coming at him, Madara's chakra is unlimited. Kabuto's body has limits, Madara's has none. He can keep spamming Flower Tree World which -will- break down the cave.

While Madara has not used Banshō Ten'in directly ( Pain's Deva Path Almighty Pull ) his Susanoo uses it when he brings down Meteors. That makes it obvious Madara can also use it.

If Kabuto tries to do a hand sign, he can easily get pulled towards Madara, and that ends up in Kabuto being forced to use the hydrification technique which can easily be evaporated by Madara's huge katons. ( that are as big as the juubi apparently ).

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We all know how water fares against extreme heat.



You are comparing a sword to Madara's arsenal. A ribcage Susanoo fist crushed the wall of a really solid building. To say that Madara's Susanoo cannot cut through it seems odd.

Additionally, he can simply use Preta Path to absorb the chakra in it and make it just a regular inoffensive web.



Kabuto uses his own body fluids for that. Unless there is proof that it is immune to lightning you are again making an assumption. The liquids in the human body conduct electricity. Since Kabuto uses his to make himself liquid, logic dictates lightning will work.



Yeah well Kabuto isn't surviving a meteor, hydrification or not. A meteor obliterates everything it touches, water is not an issue.

As for Madara, he can use his PS to tank it when it comes.



Assumption, again. Sasuke's Susanoo was under the attack of a massive Fuuton.

Madara's is not only stronger and bigger, but Kabuto has nothing on a vacuum scale of Danzo's summon.



White Rage is not a genjutsu but a ninjutsu that creates a blast of light and sound. Preta Path and Deva Path can both nullify it effortlessly.

It seem your going by your argument on how Madara wins then that actual debate between me and Gakido. I realized this by observing Gakido's point to yours. he rarely made any of these points that you are mentioning. This is definite bias approach of the winner. I can break down the post your have written put I'm not gonna argue with a judge on this one.

Good debate Gakido, I rep

 

[Zexion~]

Great debate you two Ej Black i respect your willingness to realize you messed up . you were the under-dog my man and really the only way kabuto can beat madara is with us assuming things Congratulations Gakido .. and Wonderful debate !

I realize you proved me wrong about the poison but .. i just can not see madara going down with a poison made from yamato ..

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Great debate you two Ej Black i respect your willingness to realize you messed up . you were the under-dog my man and really the only way kabuto can beat madara is with us assuming things Congratulations Gakido .. and Wonderful debate !

I realize you proved me wrong about the poison but .. i just can not see madara going down with a poison made from yamato ..

Its not made for yamato its made for hashirama

 

[Long Haired Leaf Ninja]

See I always thought the posion would do something so that helped in me picking ej with my vote.
It may not totally take him out but it forsure is gunna do some damage and hurt Madaras capabilities.

 

[Zexion~]

Its not made for yamato its made for hashirama

why would he bother making a poison for hashirama... he had no idea he was going to come back

 

[Brother Numpsay]

P

why would he bother making a poison for hashirama... he had no idea he was going to come back

bl
This poison comes along with researching he and orochi has been doing about sage senju and uchiha. They end up encounting othersbwho are messing with hashi cells. Obito also found them a threat for having this poison

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Kabuto never met Hashirama, again. If Sasuke obtained poison immunity just be studying with Orochimaru there is no doubt in my mind that Hashirama could overcome it.

It seem your going by your argument on how Madara wins then that actual debate between me and Gakido. I realized this by observing Gakido's point to yours. he rarely made any of these points that you are mentioning. This is definite bias approach of the winner. I can break down the post your have written put I'm not gonna argue with a judge on this one.

Hold on, there. Those weren't my arguments on how Madara wins.

You asked me to list the assumptions you made, and I did, showing how they are flawed.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Kabuto never met Hashirama, again. If Sasuke obtained poison immunity just be studying with Orochimaru there is no doubt in my mind that Hashirama could overcome it.

Huh? Kabuto never met Madara or anyone from that era obviously. Hashirama can't overcome somthing my from his cells personally.


Hold on, there. Those weren't my arguments on how Madara wins.

You asked me to list the assumptions you made, and I did, showing how they are flawed.

You are showing how they are flawed by your point of the argument and not what Gakido has pointed out in our argument. Show me where the are flaws are through what BOTH of us has brought up/rebuttal.

 

[Zexion~]

the debater should not argue with a judge ... unless he or she feels the judge is being un-fair