No, I understand this; it was simply a bit peculiar to me because it would harm him a bit more than my team IMO given the fact that he can't use it to its full extent.
That and it would not be beneficial since one of his eyes would be blinded. This means susanoo and either amaterasu or tsukyomi would be sacrificed. (Although there is the possibility he could use susanoo while blinded.
It should be noted that Onoki, Tsunade, and Gaara are all part of the 5 current kage and therefore know practically complete intel on each other. They can share this knowledge with their teammates and understand their opponent's abilities, a valuable tool when it comes to shinobi like Itachi who are extremely good at analyzing battle situations.
The location is Gaara vs Kimimaro - therefore Gaara must create a desert before he can use anything more than his Ultimate Defense. All characters start in base, handicapping Gai, Tsunade, and Deidara. The distance between them is 125 meters, meaning no one (like Gai) can potentially blitz. Restrictions include two suicide techniques on your team, and no overpowered ones like mine. Also Gaara does not have Shukaku, reducing his chakra capabilities and ability to go bijuu mode.
Stamina
Tsunade is a very important part of this time - she can heal Itachi's sickness/boost his health, and serve as a chakra pool for her teammates. Itachi will be able to practically spam MS techniques. Onoki will be able to cast his super jinton over a large area (from behind the safety of Susano'o armour I might add) because of Tsunade serving as a chakra boost
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. Before you doubt Tsunade's chakra pool, let's look at her feats in just one battle:
-Used Creation Rebirth to survive Mabui's transportation technique
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-Healed Gaara and Onoki and gave them chakra
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-She healed Mei and gave her chakra
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-She activated Byakogou
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-She healed from being impaled
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-She battled 5 Susanoo-clad wood clones (off panel though)
-Regenerated after getting stabbed by two Susano'o swords
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-Boosted Onoki's jinton, which destroyed 25 Susano'o-clad wood clones
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-Tanked Madara's katons
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-Summoned Katsuyu who healed the 4 other kage as well as herself.
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Not to mention during Pain's invasion, she healed the entire Leaf Village using a summoned Katsuyu as a medium. As we know, just basic medical ninjutsu, chakra control, and evasion skills take a lot of chakra.
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. Regenerating from Byakogou takes even more. If she can heal so much and donate so much chakra in one battle, she must have an enormous level of chakra - thus greatly amplifying Onoki and Itachi's techniques.
Defense
Let's look at how each member can deal with various enemy attacks.
Onoki - He can avoid attacks by going aerial using his flight technique. His flight speed is at least on par with Deidara's
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, and Deidara on his bird has already proven to be able to dodge Gaara's sand on multiple occasions
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[/URL][/URL]. This proves Onoki is more than capable of dodging Gaara's sand and at least keep up with Deidara, if not faster. He can also give the abilities of flight to his teammates
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, so they won't have to stay grounded. This jutsu renders the user capable of moving the core of the earth up or down at precisely the right moment, as to avoid attacks like Deidara's explosions
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.
Tsunade - With Byakogou activated, Tsunade would be able to tank anything in Gai's arsenal, and probably C1 from Deidara as well.
Itachi - Itachi is the one with the best defense on his team, so if they have to go on the defensive Itachi can provide ultimate protection for all of them with Susano'o and Yata Mirror
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. Although Itachi's Susano'o is legless, he can still defend the bottom of his Susano'o by holding Yata Mirror underneath him with a Susano'o arm
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. Also keep in mind that the location is not a desert, so there will be no sand beneath Itachi's feet if Itachi stays grounded. Susano'o coupled with Yata Mirror is enough to withstand even the strongest of his opponents' techniques, like C3 or Hirudora. Itachi also counters C4 the same way Sasuke did - by using his sharingan to detect the microscopic bombs, then encasing his team in Susano'o to protect against them.
Offensive techniques/strategies
There are a number of strategies and methods this team can employ to get past their opponents' defenses.
-One-shot techniques: All of the characters in this matchup start in base - therefore Gai does not start with his gates opened, and Deidara does not start on a bird. It makes sense that Itachi could one-shot either of the two: amaterasu or genjutsu to either of them.
It takes the blink of an eye for an Uchiha to activate his Mangekyou Sharingan
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from there it takes about another second (arguably less) to activate Amaterasu, which spawns directly on whatever is in Itachi's line of sight. Gaara cannot defend against it like he protected himself from Sasuke's enton: enton spawns in front of the user's eye and travels in a fast direction towards the target, unlike amaterasu in which the black flames spawn directly on the target. Therefore, it's unlikely that Gaara will able to protect his teammates at the start of the battle, and even if he does, Amaterasu will remain a constant threat throughout the battle.
Now, genjutsu could also potentially one-shot Gaara, Deidara or Gai. Although this team has intel to not look into Itachi's eyes, Itachi could still catch them in Utakata, more commonly known as finger genjutsu. This genjutsu is initiated simply by Itachi pointing his finger at his opponent. Itachi was capable of trapping Naruto in this genjutsu, which Naruto could not dispell. It is unlikely that Deidara can see through this genjutsu, since his left eye in only trained to counter sharingan-based genjutsu, not this one. Gaara can potentially be put under this genjutsu as well, since he (like the other two) cannot detect immediately whether he is in a genjutsu or not, especially since he (like the other two) have no intel on this particular genjutsu. Like Amaterasu, even if genjutsu does not one-shot it will remain a constant threat to Itachi's opponents throughout the battle. It helps that Itachi has this genjutsu, as it will enable him to differentiate between sand/clay clones and the actual opponent, just like he could tell that Kakashi's clone was actually a clone.
-Rock bunshins: Onoki can form several rock bunshins at once and send them out on the offensive. Deidara will not be able to bomb them all, since Onoki's evasion speed is too fast. Gai will not be able to take them all out if they remain spread out over an area - especially since Gai would need direct physical contact on each one to take them out. It would be up to Gaara to try to stop the rock bunshins. Once a rock clone makes contact with the sand, the clone could use Weighted Boulder Jutsu to make the sand too heavy for Gaara to control. Look at this scan:
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As you can see, Onoki used Ligthened Boulder Jutsu to the sand in Gaara's gourd to make it very light and fast. It would make sense that Onoki can use its counterpart, Weighted Boulder Jutsu, to make it too heavy to control. After all, he made Mu's so heavy he couldn't move
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. Before you say "he needs to touch every individual grain of sand", that's clearly false. If you look in the scan, Onoki did not touch every grain of sand and only pressed his palms against the gourd, yet it still lightened all of the sand. Therefore it's logical to conclude that the entire cloud of sand that Onoki touches becomes extremely heavy.
-Yasaka Magatama. Gaara will likely assume his classic defensive position:
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More than likely, this is where he will shelter Deidara and Gai as well. Magatama were already shown to pierce through a blanket of Gaara's sand, which is why an additional rock shield from Onoki was necessary
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. Magatama from Itachi have already shown to have significant destructive power, as they destroyed a Chibaku Tensei (with the additional forces of a bijuudama and a rasenshuriken.)
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That said, Magatama could destroy Gaara's sand shield. Gaara most likely will not try to dodge the Magatama since he tends to prefer to block attacks rather than dodge them. Even if he does, Itachi can simply widen the range of his Magatama, making it impossible to dodge all of the magatamas at once. Deidara on his bird would probably be able to dodge them all, but the moment Deidara enters open flight and becomes visible, Itachi can nail him with Amaterasu.
-Totsuka: Even easier, Itachi could fly closer to Gaara and once in range, stab the sand orb and pierce it with Totsuka, which would seal it away. It is unknown though whether or not Itachi will be fast enough in his flight to reach Gaara.
-Rock golem: Onoki has the ability to create a giant golem out of rock. He can also make this golem fly by using it in conjunction with his Lightened Boulder Jutsu. He can send this golem up to go above Gaara's sand orb, and then use Weighted Boulder to make it suddenly extremely heavy and collapse down upon Gaara, crushing him and his team. Keep in mind, the moment Deidara leaves the shelter of Gaara's and orb he gets nailed with Amaterasu, and Gai can be ignored for the most part relatively safely, since any attack he tries to use will be repelled with Yata Mirror. Onoki's rock golem cannot be restrained with sand, shown by how it proved ineffective at restraining large objects like Susano'o or Joki Boy. Gai or Deidara could possibly destroy the rock golem though, unless Itachi decides to encase it in Susano'o to make it extra durable.
-Jinton: the ultimate offensive technique, Onoki can use this while Tsunade gives him a chakra boost, resulting in a massive AOE jinton that completely destroys everything [. Gaara on his sand does not have the reaction speed to fly out of range in time for a jinton of that massive scale, especially since 25 Susano'o-clad wood clones could not react to it URL="http://media02.tokyobase.net/manga/mangas/Naruto/588%20-%20The%20Kages'%20Burden/14.jpg"](x)[/URL]. Onoki also has the ability to swing his jinton around like a laser on a massive scale, without even needing a boost from Tsunade
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. Deidara on his bird probably can't either, but as we know, Amaterasu greets Deidara the moment he leaves the safety of Gaara's sand shield. Gai is the only one who could possibly evade this jinton. He is probably the one which Itachi's team will end up taking down last, but if he uses gates he will only exhaust himself since none of his gated attacks are powerful enough to break through Yata Mirror.
-Katsuyu: After Tsunade summons Katsuyu, Onoki could give her the ability to fly. Then Katsuyu can split herself into hundreds of tiny slugs, each one capable of flight. Several hundred flying slugs all spitting acid is nothing to mess with. They serve as obstacles especially for Gai, since if he's jumping around trying to land a blow it will be difficult for him to navigate, and there is a large chance he will get hit by acid (like how the rocks got in the way for Gai and Kakashi during the fight with Obito
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).
-Genjutsu, continued: Gaara will likely be using his Third Eye technique to see what's going on in different areas of the battlefield, or to see outside his sand orb. The third eye is a jutsu that connects the optic nerves of the user to the sand eyeball.
This jutsu creates a floating eyeball out of sand that is connected to Gaara's optic nerves. Gaara can control the size of the eye depending on its use. Its main purpose is spying, since it can form and disperse in any location on command. This jutsu was used when Gaara fought Sasuke in the Chunin exams and was surrounded by the Sphere of Sand.
This way, we can confirm that Gaara can still be affected by visual genjutsu even if he is only using his Third Eye. He was even affected by the 2nd Mizukage's genjutsu despite using his Third Eye
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While he knows to avoid looking directly into Itachi's eyes, this is easier said than done: especially if he wants to view the target he is trying to attack or defend against. If he's caught by Tsukuyomi, it's gg for Gaara because even if his teammates immediately break him out, he's experienced 72 hours of torture in the one second he's been under genjutsu. If he's caught by a 3T visual genjutsu like Dusk Crow, Itachi can control the illusion subtly enough to where Gaara does not realize he is in a genjutsu (like with Naruto), or perhaps even completely control his subject like he did with one women he used to distract Jiraiya. His teammates could break him out, but how would they know that Gaara was under a genjutsu? Gaara would crush himself and Deidara in a sand coffin before his teammates could react. He won't be able to break out of it himself, seeing that Orochimaru (who has a 5 in genjutsu) was solo'd by a 3T genjutsu from Itachi.
Main points/Summary
Itachi could potentially one-shot any of his opponents with genjutsu or amaterasu
The moment Gaara or Deidara go into the open or expose themselves visibly, they get one-shotted by Amaterasu
Gai will only exhaust himself if he opens gates, seeing that none of his gated attacks will have any effect against Itachi's defense
There are a number of attacks Itachi, Tsunade, and Onoki can employ to kill their opponents such as jinton, weighted boulder, katsuyu, golem, magatamas, genjutsu, rock clones, amaterasu.
I would like to apologize for taking so long since I have been very busy these past 2 days and my internet connection was temporarily down. I was kind of rushed towards the end so I didn't include as many scans later on.
Tsunade is a very important part of this time - she can heal Itachi's sickness/boost his health, and serve as a chakra pool for her teammates. Itachi will be able to practically spam MS techniques.
Bolded is incorrect. Sasuke, who was in a much better health situation than Itachi, was healed multiple times by Karin, both before and even
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his fight with Danzou, and his eyesight still deteriorated to the point where he was half blind by his skirmish with Kakashi.
beansandcornbread2 said:
Onoki - He can avoid attacks by going aerial using his flight technique. His flight speed is at least on par with Deidara's (x), and Deidara on his bird has already proven to be able to dodge Gaara's sand on multiple occasions (x)(x)(x). This proves Onoki is more than capable of dodging Gaara's sand and at least keep up with Deidara, if not faster. He can also give the abilities of flight to his teammates(x), so they won't have to stay grounded. This jutsu renders the user capable of moving the core of the earth up or down at precisely the right moment, as to avoid attacks like Deidara's explosions(x)(x).
Rising Earth Core isn't doing anything to prevent Deidara's C2 bombs. Not only are the bombs guided, this is going to be a predominately aerial fight; Ohnoki can't lift the earth fast enough to tank it, nor high enough to even make an impact. Not to mention that Gai is also going to be pressuring Onoki as well as Deidara, to some extent; he can't concentrate on outspeeding Deidara's projectiles and keeping an eye on Gai at the same time. Remember, C2 is used to counter speed. Onoki is undoubtedly going to be hit by one, at which point it becomes easy for Gai to take him out.
beansandcornbread2 said:
Tsunade - With Byakogou activated, Tsunade would be able to tank anything in Gai's arsenal, and probably C1 from Deidara as well.
Tsunade is actually the first and most important target to take out in this fight; subsequently, she is taken out first and easiest.
Three possible scenarios in her defeat:
Gaara immediately turns the ground below her feet to sand (an action that takes him no effort to do, as proven above),
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(note once more, his seal was able to hold the Third Kazekage, a character with much better speed feats than Tsunade), and then sinks her
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.
Deidara forms a Nendo Bunshin, has Gaara carry it towards Tsunade on a Sand Cloud, ingests clay and
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. Kakashi's Kamui was the only reason the still-expanding explosion was staunched.
The about to be revealed, Deidara - Gaara combo.
Deidara - Gaara combo
Utilizing the large starting distance to their advantage, Deidara forms a C2 Dragon and has it produce a large amount of mines; I've seen a misconception that the C2 Dragon requires a large amount of prep. This is wrong. [
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]
From there, the real Deidara climbs into the mass of the C2 Dragon and has a Nendo Bunshin take the place atop the Dragon itself: the same strategy he utilized versus Sasuke [If anybody on your team attempts to blitz him, they get blown up]. By this point, Gaara has converted the ground into Sand: he then proceeds to form a
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(on a lesser scale than this to preserve chakra) and completely envelops the mines.
What we have now is Gaara's attacking sand: a mixture of sand and exploding clay. The beauty of this strategy is that upon restraining and if necessary crushing an opponent, Deidara can manually explode his mines to deal a much larger amount of damage to said opponent. Doubting the size of the mine explosions? [
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]
Notice, the size of the tree in the top right panel of the scan I just posted. It was literally dwarfed by the size of the explosion. This should be more than enough to kill Tsunade, Onoki, or Itachi without Susano'o. This isn't even mentioning Gai, who has a special role in this battle.
Tsunade can be taken down by said combo utilizing the Sand Coffin. It is important to know that even if Onoki grants Tsunade the ability of flight, she will be nowhere near as fast as Onoki and Deidara; proved by Kitsuchi stating "
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"
The only people that'll be able to use flight to its full advantages in this battle are Onoki, Deidara, and Gaara. It's also worth mentioning that Gaara is fully capable of performing a Sand Coffin on a midair opponent. [
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-
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] Tsunade is caught, crushed, and exploded. Simple as that. Even in Byakugou, her chakra is going to run out completely if she has to withstand more than one of those.
beansandcornbread2 said:
Itachi - Itachi is the one with the best defense on his team, so if they have to go on the defensive Itachi can provide ultimate protection for all of them with Susano'o and Yata Mirror(x). Although Itachi's Susano'o is legless, he can still defend the bottom of his Susano'o by holding Yata Mirror underneath him with a Susano'o arm(x). Also keep in mind that the location is not a desert, so there will be no sand beneath Itachi's feet if Itachi stays grounded. Susano'o coupled with Yata Mirror is enough to withstand even the strongest of his opponents' techniques, like C3 or Hirudora. Itachi also counters C4 the same way Sasuke did - by using his sharingan to detect the microscopic bombs, then encasing his team in Susano'o to protect against them.
@Bold: Grouping your team together is the worst possible thing you can do. It means that Itachi's Susano'o is going to receive a pounding from Hirudora and/or Asakujaku, large-scale Sand Coffins, and C2 and/or C3. Yata or not, Itachi is going to run out of chakra, by which time he's useless.
@Underline: As previously stated, Gaara easily turns the location into a desert. By the time the battle truly gets underway, Tsunade will be eliminated. She won't be able to provide chakra, and as such Itachi is going to have to be extremely careful with his MS techniques. Which leads me to my next point: countering said MS techniques.
beansandcornbread2 said:
It takes the blink of an eye for an Uchiha to activate his Mangekyou Sharingan (x)-(x) from there it takes about another second (arguably less) to activate Amaterasu, which spawns directly on whatever is in Itachi's line of sight. Gaara cannot defend against it like he protected himself from Sasuke's enton: enton spawns in front of the user's eye and travels in a fast direction towards the target, unlike amaterasu in which the black flames spawn directly on the target. Therefore, it's unlikely that Gaara will able to protect his teammates at the start of the battle, and even if he does, Amaterasu will remain a constant threat throughout the battle.
I beg to differ. In fact, each member of my team has a definitive counter to Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi both.
Gaara: Gaara has multiple counters to Amaterasu; he can
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, so there's absolutely nothing stopping him from literally fighting from inside his dome and simply using his sand and his teammates as his eyes. It's obvious that at that point there's nothing Itachi can do with Amaterasu to get past Gaara's defense. He also has his
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, which point blank shrugs Amaterasu off if Itachi somehow manages to connect it. For Tsukuyomi, he uses the same dome - Sensor Sand defense.
Deidara: Deidara utilizes his Nendo Bunshin strategy. If Itachi attempts to use Tsukuyomi on it, it obviously won't work and he's open for an attack. If Itachi attempts to use Amaterasu on it, Deidara exits through the bottom of the C2 Dragon upon it catching on fire and is subsequently caught by Gaara's Sand Cloud.
Gai: Gai has developed a fighting style that
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, and in 7th Gate he without a doubt possesses the speed to dodge Amaterasu in the same fashion that
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.
Once Susano'o is up and Tsunade is down, Itachi loses near all of his mobility. At that point it simply becomes a matter of outlasting him.
beansandcornbread2 said:
Now, genjutsu could also potentially one-shot Gaara, Deidara or Gai. Although this team has intel to not look into Itachi's eyes, Itachi could still catch them in Utakata, more commonly known as finger genjutsu. This genjutsu is initiated simply by Itachi pointing his finger at his opponent. Itachi was capable of trapping Naruto in this genjutsu, which Naruto could not dispell.
Utakata? First of all, that is a very close range jutsu; when used against Naruto he was at a maximum 3 meters away from Itachi. All members of my team possess the skill to avoid Itachi in the air. Naruto was noted by Jiraiya not to be a Genjutsu type. Gai has already dispelled a high ranking Genjutsu, and neither Gaara nor Deidara are getting caught by that Jutsu due to their flight prowess.
And now, onto Gai's role.
Gai's role in this battle primarily involves keeping Onoki in check. Jinton is one of your team's only offensive options, and as we know that requires a large amount of prep; prep that won't be available to Onoki with Gai constantly on his tail. Careful utilization of Ningame for transportation purposes would allow Gai the ability to follow Onoki anywhere [
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], and if it comes down to it finish him with Hirudora.
beansandcornbread2 said:
-Rock bunshins: Onoki can form several rock bunshins at once and send them out on the offensive. Deidara will not be able to bomb them all, since Onoki's evasion speed is too fast. Gai will not be able to take them all out if they remain spread out over an area - especially since Gai would need direct physical contact on each one to take them out. It would be up to Gaara to try to stop the rock bunshins. Once a rock clone makes contact with the sand, the clone could use Weighted Boulder Jutsu to make the sand too heavy for Gaara to control.
Gaara counters this technique with his Sand Bunshin. Also, not only was Gaara able to utilize his sand to its full extent with literal gold mixed in it, please tell me how Onoki's Bunshin are going to be able to even make his sand heavier before they're crushed from below?
beansandcornbread said:
More than likely, this is where he will shelter Deidara and Gai as well. Magatama were already shown to pierce through a blanket of Gaara's sand, which is why an additional rock shield from Onoki was necessary (x)(x). Magatama from Itachi have already shown to have significant destructive power, as they destroyed a Chibaku Tensei (with the additional forces of a bijuudama and a rasenshuriken.)(x) That said, Magatama could destroy Gaara's sand shield. Gaara most likely will not try to dodge the Magatama since he tends to prefer to block attacks rather than dodge them. Even if he does, Itachi can simply widen the range of his Magatama, making it impossible to dodge all of the magatamas at once. Deidara on his bird would probably be able to dodge them all, but the moment Deidara enters open flight and becomes visible, Itachi can nail him with Amaterasu.
@Bold: Edo Madara's Magatama >>> Alive Itachi's Magatama. Itachi's Magatama, even in Edo Form, are not
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. Look at the size of Kabuto compared to the measly impacts made by the Magatama into the cave.
@Underline: If Gaara has already canonically seen the impact that Magatama can make on his sand, and has no idea that Itachi's Magatama are weaker, why would he try to tank it? Amaterasu on Deidara has already been countered.
beansandcornbread2 said:
-Jinton: the ultimate offensive technique, Onoki can use this while Tsunade gives him a chakra boost, resulting in a massive AOE jinton that completely destroys everything [. Gaara on his sand does not have the reaction speed to fly out of range in time for a jinton of that massive scale, especially since 25 Susano'o-clad wood clones could not react to it
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. Onoki also has the ability to swing his jinton around like a laser on a massive scale, without even needing a boost from Tsunade (x). Deidara on his bird probably can't either, but as we know, Amaterasu greets Deidara the moment he leaves the safety of Gaara's sand shield. Gai is the only one who could possibly evade this jinton. He is probably the one which Itachi's team will end up taking down last, but if he uses gates he will only exhaust himself since none of his gated attacks are powerful enough to break through Yata Mirror.
As previously stated, Tsunade is downed at the very beginning of the fight. As also previously stated, Gai doesn't allow Onoki to form a Jinton.
Oh, and don't worry about Gai's stamina. During the War Arc he used Asakujaku, fought against the Edo Jinchuuriki some more, fought against Obito, used Hirudora, and that's only when he began to show signs of strain. And yet he still kept fighting. He's not going down before your team.
Gaara isn't stupid, he's not going to use his Third Eye if he knows that Genjutsu is effective against it and he knows that Itachi is a Genjutsu master.
beansandcornbread2 said:
Itachi could potentially one-shot any of his opponents with genjutsu or amaterasu.
The moment Gaara or Deidara go into the open or expose themselves visibly, they get one-shotted by Amaterasu.
Gai will only exhaust himself if he opens gates, seeing that none of his gated attacks will have any effect against Itachi's defense.
There are a number of attacks Itachi, Tsunade, and Onoki can employ to kill their opponents such as jinton, weighted boulder, katsuyu, golem, magatamas, genjutsu, rock clones, amaterasu.
This is contradicted by Itachi himself saying that Izanami was created to stop Izanagi. There have only been 2 uchiha in history with senju cells; Madara when he was supposed to be dead, and obito when the clan was dead. Clearly uchiha can use Izanagi; Senju cells increases the time limit or something.
Itachi does have izanagi. But, seeing as he's never shown it, no one will accept that anyway and not like it can be really used in a debate when we don't know it's time limit.
oh and sorry for spamming your debate. good luck both.
Bolded is incorrect. Sasuke, who was in a much better health situation than Itachi, was healed multiple times by Karin, both before and even during his fight with Danzou, and his eyesight still deteriorated to the point where he was half blind by his skirmish with Kakashi.
Tsunade has much greater chakra reserves than Karin, who was low on chakra after only healing Sasuke once
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. I already showed you all her feats in one battle, which proves she has an enormous chakra pool.
Rising Earth Core isn't doing anything to prevent Deidara's C2 bombs. Not only are the bombs guided, this is going to be a predominately aerial fight; Ohnoki can't lift the earth fast enough to tank it, nor high enough to even make an impact. Not to mention that Gai is also going to be pressuring Onoki as well as Deidara, to some extent; he can't concentrate on outspeeding Deidara's projectiles and keeping an eye on Gai at the same time. Remember, C2 is used to counter speed. Onoki is undoubtedly going to be hit by one, at which point it becomes easy for Gai to take him out.
..What? Moving Earth Core has already canonically been used to avoid Deidara's bombs:
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. Though I suppose you are right in that this will be a mostly aerial battle.
Gaara immediately turns the ground below her feet to sand (an action that takes him no effort to do, as proven above), restrains her (note once more, his seal was able to hold the Third Kazekage, a character with much better speed feats than Tsunade), and then sinks her deep into the ground.
This is not happening and it is not immediate. It takes only an
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for Onoki to give her flying ability and make her go aerial before this even happens. From then, Itachi can encase his team within his Susano'o and they're set for defense. At the beginning of the fight there IS no sand in the ground, and Onoki can make his team go aerial before Gaara creates any. The scan you posted of Kimimaro does not apply here, since Gaara and him had already been battling for some time before Kimimaro got restrained by sand, which is what gave Gaara ample time to create more sand. All this happened before Gaara made any more sand:
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It does take time (even if not a lot) for Gaara to grind down and erode the rocks and minerals with his sand to create more sand. Even if by some miracle Gaara gets his sand arms to grasp Tsunade, she can use her monstrous strength to break free from
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puny sand arms.
Deidara forms a Nendo Bunshin, has Gaara carry it towards Tsunade on a Sand Cloud, ingests clay and explodes. Kakashi's Kamui was the only reason the still-expanding explosion was staunched.
Nope. Onoki, Tsunade, and Itachi will be flying and protected by Susano'o before this happens, since that method is obviously too slow.
Deidara-Gaara combo
Utilizing the large starting distance to their advantage, Deidara forms a C2 Dragon and has it produce a large amount of mines; I've seen a misconception that the C2 Dragon requires a large amount of prep. This is wrong. [X-X]
From there, the real Deidara climbs into the mass of the C2 Dragon and has a Nendo Bunshin take the place atop the Dragon itself: the same strategy he utilized versus Sasuke [If anybody on your team attempts to blitz him, they get blown up]. By this point, Gaara has converted the ground into Sand: he then proceeds to form a Sand Tsunami (on a lesser scale than this to preserve chakra) and completely envelops the mines.
What we have now is Gaara's attacking sand: a mixture of sand and exploding clay. The beauty of this strategy is that upon restraining and if necessary crushing an opponent, Deidara can manually explode his mines to deal a much larger amount of damage to said opponent. Doubting the size of the mine explosions? [X]
Notice, the size of the tree in the top right panel of the scan I just posted. It was literally dwarfed by the size of the explosion. This should be more than enough to kill Tsunade, Onoki, or Itachi without Susano'o. This isn't even mentioning Gai, who has a special role in this battle.
Okay...I don't see why Deidara and Gaara can't do that. But it still doesn't make a difference, since Itachi will be protecting his team with his Susano'o which can tank C2 with ease, especially with Tsunade there feeding him chakra. Also, I really don't see a tree in that scan you posted of the explosion. In fact I don't see anything in that scan which gives us a reference point to establish the size of those explosions. Could you circle the tree? Also, how will Deidara know where to direct his bombs if he's buried inside his dragon?
Tsunade can be taken down by said combo utilizing the Sand Coffin. It is important to know that even if Onoki grants Tsunade the ability of flight, she will be nowhere near as fast as Onoki and Deidara; proved by Kitsuchi stating "They're too fast, I can't keep up!"
The only people that'll be able to use flight to its full advantages in this battle are Onoki, Deidara, and Gaara. It's also worth mentioning that Gaara is fully capable of performing a Sand Coffin on a midair opponent. [X-X] Tsunade is caught, crushed, and exploded. Simple as that. Even in Byakugou, her chakra is going to run out completely if she has to withstand more than one of those.
Not at all will Tsunade be taken down at the beginning. If the distance is 125 meters, Itachi can protect those two within the safety of a flying Susano'o before Gaara can reach her with his sand. Also, how do you know Gaara will go for Tsunade first? He has intel on Itachi so his initial focus would be to protect his team from Amaterasu, or focus on creating a desert - not going after Tsunade right off the bat.
@Bold: Grouping your team together is the worst possible thing you can do. It means that Itachi's Susano'o is going to receive a pounding from Hirudora and/or Asakujaku, large-scale Sand Coffins, and C2 and/or C3. Yata or not, Itachi is going to run out of chakra, by which time he's useless.
Not at all...Hirudora or Asakujaku from Gai will only tire him out and get repelled by Yata. C2 and C3 will just be a waste of clay and chakra for Deidara. Large scale sand coffins aren't enough to crush a Susano'o - even a combo with Shukaku was
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. The only thing your team will get from heavy bombardment is exhaustion. Itachi is not going to be exhausted since Tsunade is constantly feeding him chakra and healing him, and will not be killed at the beginning.
@Underline: As previously stated, Gaara easily turns the location into a desert. By the time the battle truly gets underway, Tsunade will be eliminated. She won't be able to provide chakra, and as such Itachi is going to have to be extremely careful with his MS techniques. Which leads me to my next point: countering said MS techniques.
Already explained this. Tsunade won't get killed at the start.
Gaara: Gaara has multiple counters to Amaterasu; he can sense via his sand, so there's absolutely nothing stopping him from literally fighting from inside his dome and simply using his sand and his teammates as his eyes. It's obvious that at that point there's nothing Itachi can do with Amaterasu to get past Gaara's defense. He also has his sand armor, which point blank shrugs Amaterasu off if Itachi somehow manages to connect it. For Tsukuyomi, he uses the same dome - Sensor Sand defense.
Fair point on Amaterasu. The problem I have with this part of your argument though is that you're assuming Gaara can do battle and navigate perfectly by just using sand sensing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but has sand sensing ever shown to be useful other than the time it located the 2nd Mizukage's clam? What you're saying is that Gaara won't need his eyesight since he has sand sensing, and since Deidara is being sheltered within Gaara's sand dome he won't be able to see anything either (if Deidara hides himself within his clay dragon like you said he still won't be able to see anything, and won't know where to direct his bombs.) Gai's sphere of vision is also narrowed since he is being cautious about looking into Itachi's eyes. While sand sensing may be good for finding the location of Itachi and his Susano'o, how will Gaara know if jinton is coming? I find it hard to believe that your team will be able to fight well without Gaara's Third Eye since they are severely handicapped when it comes to vision - especially since Gaara and Deidara will have to be in constant communication so Deidara will know where to direct his bombs.
Deidara: Deidara utilizes his Nendo Bunshin strategy. If Itachi attempts to use Tsukuyomi on it, it obviously won't work and he's open for an attack. If Itachi attempts to use Amaterasu on it, Deidara exits through the bottom of the C2 Dragon upon it catching on fire and is subsequently caught by Gaara's Sand Cloud.
Large clay structures and clay clones are countered by rock clones. I've already established that Onoki's flight speed is equal to that of Deidara's. The clone now needs to lay just one finger on the dragon, and it becomes too heavy to fly and crashes towards the ground
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. Obviously Deidara can't explode the dragon if he's inside it, and if he's not it's just a huge waste of chakra and clay. Deidara will be forced to rely on Gaara for defense against Itachi and Onoki.
Gai: Gai has developed a fighting style that directly counters a Sharingan user's, and in 7th Gate he without a doubt possesses the speed to dodge Amaterasu in the same fashion that Ei did.
If he opens the 7th gate, it is just a waste of his stamina. All his attacks can be defended against and he would constantly have to be jumping around on his turtle to avoid being targeted by Amaterasu. If he stays still for even a moment, he gets nailed by Amaterasu, especially seeing that he has no sensory techniques to detect Itachi activating Amaterasu. What's more, what Ay dodged wasn't amaterasu - it was enton. As I explained earlier, Enton spawns in front of the eye and travels at a very fast speed towards its target. Amaterasu is different in that it spawns directly on whatever the user is focusing on, no matter how far away it is. While Gai in 7th gate is still probably too fast for Itachi to track with his sharingan, what this means is that if Gai slows down or stops even for an instant, Amaterasu hits him since it is much harder to avoid than Enton.
Utakata? First of all, that is a very close range jutsu; when used against Naruto he was at a maximum 3 meters away from Itachi. All members of my team possess the skill to avoid Itachi in the air. Naruto was noted by Jiraiya not to be a Genjutsu type. Gai has already dispelled a high ranking Genjutsu, and neither Gaara nor Deidara are getting caught by that Jutsu due to their flight prowess.
Fair points. Seems like finger genjutsu won't be a factor.
Gai's role in this battle primarily involves keeping Onoki in check. Jinton is one of your team's only offensive options, and as we know that requires a large amount of prep; prep that won't be available to Onoki with Gai constantly on his tail. Careful utilization of Ningame for transportation purposes would allow Gai the ability to follow Onoki anywhere [X-X], and if it comes down to it finish him with Hirudora.
Onoki can be safely protected by Itachi's Susano'o. He can prepare his jinton from inside the Susano'o, and blast through it to reach its target. Not to mention, ningame is a horrible transportation option for Gai, since it can just be Amaterasu'd. If Gai tries summoning it again, the black flames spread over to him.
@Bold: Edo Madara's Magatama >>> Alive Itachi's Magatama. Itachi's Magatama, even in Edo Form, are not nearly as destructive. Look at the size of Kabuto compared to the measly impacts made by the Magatama into the cave. @Underline: If Gaara has already canonically seen the impact that Magatama can make on his sand, and has no idea that Itachi's Magatama are weaker, why would he try to tank it? Amaterasu on Deidara has already been countered.
Magatama aren't supposed to make big explosions, their purpose is to pierce through. If they were capable of piercing through the solid limestone of Kabuto's cave, they can get through sand. Also, those Magatamas he threw at Kabuto were not full-powered: look at how
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they are, and look at how Itachi threw
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. The other time Itachi used Yasaka Magatama, they were grouped in a pair of three for extra destructive force and were the
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.
Gaara counters this technique with his Sand Bunshin. Also, not only was Gaara able to utilize his sand to its full extent with literal gold mixed in it, please tell me how Onoki's Bunshin are going to be able to even make his sand heavier before they're crushed from below?
Onoki's flight speed is faster than Gaara's sand, I already explained that. So sand clones are too slow. Weighted Boulder is completely different than gold dust, which the 4th Kazekage explained is mixed with regular sand to slow it down
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. What's different about Weighted Boulder is that it literally makes Gaara's sand heavier, heavy enough to the point where he can't manipulate it, or at least slow down the speed. If making sand extra light makes it
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to manipulate sand, making it heavy will make it much slower. Also, the clones won't get crushed before they use the technique since the sand becomes heavy the moment it makes contact with their body. Onoki was already able to use the technique without using hands:
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. Onoki needs to get literally one rock clone over to Gaara's dome, touch it, and make it completely collapse and fall to the ground.
As previously stated, Tsunade is downed at the very beginning of the fight. As also previously stated, Gai doesn't allow Onoki to form a Jinton.
Oh, and don't worry about Gai's stamina. During the War Arc he used Asakujaku, fought against the Edo Jinchuuriki some more, fought against Obito, used Hirudora, and that's only when he began to show signs of strain. And yet he still kept fighting. He's not going down before your team.
Gaara isn't stupid, he's not going to use his Third Eye if he knows that Genjutsu is effective against it and he knows that Itachi is a Genjutsu master.
Already explained why Tsunade doesn't go down at the beginning. Already explained how Gai can't keep Onoki in check. Gai has good stamina, but he is going down before my team since Tsunade is there, and he is literally going to need to keep 7th Gate active the entire fight to avoid Amaterasu, as well as constantly jumping around. He'll tire quickly. Third Eye might be necessary for Gaara, he can only do so much with sand sensing.
Gaara drags Tsunade into the ground from the very start of the battle.
Gaara - Deidara Combo = Exploding Sand.
Gai pressures Onoki to prevent Jinton from ever happening.
Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi are useless.
C2, C3, Hirudora, Asakujaku, Sand Coffin, Sand Tsunami, Suna Arare are all threats to your team.
-Gaara isn't dragging Tsunade into the ground at the beginning since she will be flying and protected by a Susano'o by the time Gaara makes sand at her feet.
-Gaara/Deidara combo useless before Susano'o
-Onoki safely behind Susano'o, Gai can't do a thing
-Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi are not useless at all. The very fact that Itachi can use these techniques makes Gaara and Deidara lose their vision and rely on sand sensing - an iffy method at best. Gai is forced to constantly be on the move and his field of vision is narrowed: he will quickly exhaust himself.
-Every single one of those attacks can be tanked with Susano'o.
My main points:
Your team's vision is completely shut off for Gaara and Deidara, and is narrowed for Gai.
Onoki can distribute the ability to fly, making underground attacks useless.
Itachi can provide ultimate defense for his team by encasing them in Susano'o and defending with Yata Mirror.
Tsunade is constantly supplying Itachi and Onoki with chakra and healing them.
You didn't even address Katsuyu
Your team has no counter to jinton - they won't know when it's coming and Onoki has a safe place for its prep time inside Itachi's Susano'o.
Weighted Boulder makes Gaara's sand too heavy for him to move
Magatama can still pierce through sand
Attacks on a Susano'o with Yata Mirror are just a waste of chakra/clay/stamina, especially with Deidara and Gai
