Databook valid evidence?

[thegame]

I have looked through some of the databooks, and clearly they contain many contradictions with the manga. Kishi is listed as the author on all of them, but yet these contradictions occur.

Mainly it is age problems, like saying Kakashi was 5 when he graduated, but clearly he graduated along with many others, who all are listed to be older at the time of graduation, but their age is the same. For instance Obito and Kakashi are the same age according to the 2nd databook, but kakashi graduated academy at 5, chunin at 6, and obito academy at 9, chunin at 11.. And this isn't the only case.

Now this clearly says they couldn't have participated in the same chunin exam, unless they let students at the academy participate in chunin exams before actually graduating to a genin.

The 2nd databook was made/published around the time of Kakashis gaiden, so it doesn't make sense if Kishi made such a big mistake.

So it sort of suggest that Kishi probably didn't write everything on his own. So how valid does this make the evidence of the databooks? I can bring up other examples such as jutsus that are highly over-exaggerated compared to how they really appear, etc..

Obviously what is stated in the manga overrules the databooks, but how useful are the databooks then, when Kishi can just overrule them anytime he wants? If the Databook says something that isn't directly stated in the manga, is it then still valid as evidence?

 

[Yusuke Urameshi]

I'm pretty sure Kakashi graduated earlier than Obito. Obito, if I'm correct, had to redo the Academy, and then graduated at 11. Look at their skill level. Kakashi > Obito while they were young.

 

[~Puppet Master~]

I think Kakashi was a lot younger than Obito, don't know how they got placed in the same squad though, but I don't think this is anything to worry about.

 

[Hafiz Dembos]

The data book is mostly crap, you can only trust the manga although it has contradictions as well and it is sometimes hard to understand what has happened.

 

[thegame]

I'm pretty sure Kakashi graduated earlier than Obito. Obito, if I'm correct, had to redo the Academy, and then graduated at 11. Look at their skill level. Kakashi > Obito while they were young.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but the databook clearly does. That is why I am making this thread..

3rd book says kakashi is 30 and naruto is 16. 30-16 = 14

2nd book says obito was 13 when he "died".

Kakashi was 13 when he became jonin. So it's clearly wrong - unless - as I said. Obito participated in chunin exam b4 becoming genin

 

[u wanna die]

dont mix it up with the data book... its a crap xd

 

[Punk Hazard]

The only reliable thing in the databook is Tsukiyomi + Amaterasu= Susano'o.

 

[Owarij]

I'm not saying you are wrong, but the databook clearly does. That is why I am making this thread..

3rd book says kakashi is 30 and naruto is 16. 30-16 = 14

2nd book says obito was 13 when he "died".

Kakashi was 13 when he became jonin. So it's clearly wrong - unless - as I said. Obito participated in chunin exam b4 becoming genin

Obito was 13 in gaiden.. and he was a chuunin...
Kakashi was 13 in gaiden as well... but he had just gotten promoted to jonin..
there is no error as far as I see.....Kakashi was better than obito..... so had a higher rank.. just like neji is a jonin while ten ten is a chunnin..


I don't understand what exactly you think is incorrect


You're making people think the databook is incorrect when I haven't seen any incorrect statistics from it to date..

 

[Anakin Skywalker]

kishi wrote the databook so yes it is a valid proof
but kishi is human so its possible he made a mistakes but that doesn't mean its completely useless

best proof -> Manga
supporting proof -> Databook (when not contradicted by manga)

 

[AWSUM SID]

arent the databooks from kishi/manga creators??? How can it be unreliable??

That being said, you should look at the time when the databook came out. It was wayyy before Tobi was revealed ad Obito. In that sense, Kakashi was stronger than obito.

 

[WhistleBlower]

can u link the databook here please??

i've tried looking for it , but am never successful

 

[thegame]

Obito was 13 in gaiden.. and he was a chuunin...
Kakashi was 13 in gaiden as well... but he had just gotten promoted to jonin..
there is no error as far as I see.....Kakashi was better than obito..... so had a higher rank.. just like neji is a jonin while ten ten is a chunnin..


I don't understand what exactly you think is incorrect


You're making people think the databook is incorrect when I haven't seen any incorrect statistics from it to date..

No. Look through the chapter where Kakashi becomes a chunin. Kakashi and Obito participates together. Using what you said above and Kakashis chunin exam graduation age that makes it impossible. So the mistake probably lies in kakashis age of graduation from academy/chunin exam

 

[thegame]

The only reliable thing in the databook is Tsukiyomi + Amaterasu= Susano'o.

Yes for Itachi, it is but don't wanna debate this here, it isn't the purpose of the thread U_U

 

[natssuu]

Kakashi became chuunin at age 6, that's a plothole.

 

[Owarij]

No. Look through the chapter where Kakashi becomes a chunin. Kakashi and Obito participates together. Using what you said above and Kakashis chunin exam graduation age that makes it impossible. So the mistake probably lies in kakashis age of graduation from academy/chunin exam

Not necessarily...What we saw in the manga scan could have very well been kakashi, rin and obito at age 6... At the end of the chuunin exam only kakashi became a chuunin... thus he showed obito his papers and jacket

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Note at this time rin and obito did not get promoted.. which is why in the next scan you see Obito STILL training.. infact training for what seems to be years... you can tell this by the weather in the background

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What seems to be flower petals falling to - snow - to petals again... Kishi did that to show that he trained for a long time...
You can never really get a sense of time from manga scans.. it's the little things that you need to look at...

Finally after 5 years, Rin and obito became chuunin, and rejoined with kakashi

I'll be frank, I've never seen kishi make statistical mistakes in the databook, 95% of the time they are accurate

 

[thegame]

Not necessarily...What we saw in the manga scan could have very well been kakashi, rin and obito at age 6... At the end of the chuunin exam only kakashi became a chuunin... thus he showed obito his papers and jacket

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Note at this time rin and obito did not get promoted.. which is why in the next scan you see Obito STILL training.. infact training for what seems to be years... you can tell this by the weather in the background

You must be registered for see images

What seems to be flower petals falling to - snow - to petals again... Kishi did that to show that he trained for a long time...
You can never really get a sense of time from manga scans.. it's the little things that you need to look at...

Finally after 5 years, Rin and obito became chuunin, and rejoined with kakashi

I'll be frank, I've never seen kishi make statistical mistakes in the databook, 95% of the time they are accurate

Again you are mistaken..

I am well aware of the "small" details in that chapter. But this is not what I said was the mistake. Obviously we see Obito lose to Gai before Kakashi beat Gai and became a chunin. This means they participate in the chunin exam at the same time. According to the databook they couldn't participate in the same chunin exam... Cause Obito didn't become a genin till he was

9 yeras old

According to databook kakashi graduated chunin exam before obito was a genin. It's a fact, and that is why I say the databook is wrong on kakashis grad age....

 

[Owarij]

oh, i thought you were talking about their chuunin ages t.t, You're right, something is weird, unless a non genin can take an attempt at a chuunin exam..

but tell me, why do you think it's the databook that is wrong?

if you think about it, doesn't it make more sense that kakashi graduated faster? It's the manga that's showing them in they same exams

 

[thegame]

oh, i thought you were talking about their chuunin ages t.t, You're right, something is weird, unless a non genin can take an attempt at a chuunin exam..

but tell me, why do you think it's the databook that is wrong?

if you think about it, doesn't it make more sense that kakashi graduated faster? It's the manga that's showing them in they same exams

Yeah it does make sense that kakashi graduated faster, which he does in both cases - just not that fast. But there is another mistake. The 2nd databook says that Obito became a chunin when he was 11, but the manga indicates that he became a chunin the same year that Kakashi became a jonin - at least when you look at the leafs falling in the chapter as you pointed out.

I wont say he couldn't participate in the chunin exam before becoming a genin. It was war time, and Konoha was lacking military power so much they even sent a 13 year old kid out as leader of a team.. Kakashi was nowhere near what it would take to become Jonin in Konoha in the present time, when he was only 13. Also he had way too little experience with war, and this showed perfectly when Minato had to save him the 1st time in the gaiden.

So I would say it is like this:

Kakashi/Obito/Rin all graduate academy when they were 5-8 years old - and not necessarily at the same year.

Kakashi became chunin 1 year after Obito graduated the academy.

Obito became chunin 4-6 years after Kakashi became chunin.

This way, the earlier Kakashi became chunin, the longer it took for Obito, but it will also mean that the databooks must be wrong on some points. Whether it is Obito or Kakashi, I don't know, tbh. it doesn't have much impact on the story etc., so I wont cry or shout over it. I just wanted to question the validity of using the databooks for evidence, since it has been contradicted by the manga a few times.

I can find more examples of mistakes from the databooks if you, for instance:

Spoiler

NINJUTSU; Suiton: Suigadan (Water Fang Bullets)
User: Uchiha Itachi
Offensive; Close range; Rank B

Main text

A technique to deal physical damage to the enemy with a liquid mass brought forth from underwater. Its power to kill and maim is augmented by adding a spinning motion to the compactly pressured water. During fights on water, taking advantage of its characteristic ability to attack from anywhere in a 360 degrees radius, in conjunction with other jutsu for distraction, confusion and so forth, this technique has an extensive array of applications.

Captions

-Lightning-fast bullets gathered from water. They come out of a blind spot and gore the enemy!!

Those bullets aren't as fast as lightning. I don't think Kishi would ever write that. Nonetheless I just wanted to say that jutsu in general are often over-exaggerated in the databooks, when you see them in the manga, they are usually weaker. Of course the "one-shot" jutsus are good enough, but they are also S-rank. You don't fight a B-rank jutsu that has the speed of a lightning.. But it's not like it matters much that they are over-exaggerated a bit. At least not in my opinion.

 

[Owarij]

Yeah it does make sense that kakashi graduated faster, which he does in both cases - just not that fast. But there is another mistake. The 2nd databook says that Obito became a chunin when he was 11, but the manga indicates that he became a chunin the same year that Kakashi became a jonin - at least when you look at the leafs falling in the chapter as you pointed out.

I wont say he couldn't participate in the chunin exam before becoming a genin. It was war time, and Konoha was lacking military power so much they even sent a 13 year old kid out as leader of a team.. Kakashi was nowhere near what it would take to become Jonin in Konoha in the present time, when he was only 13. Also he had way too little experience with war, and this showed perfectly when Minato had to save him the 1st time in the gaiden.

So I would say it is like this:

Kakashi/Obito/Rin all graduate academy when they were 5-8 years old - and not necessarily at the same year.

Kakashi became chunin 1 year after Obito graduated the academy.

Obito became chunin 4-6 years after Kakashi became chunin.

This way, the earlier Kakashi became chunin, the longer it took for Obito, but it will also mean that the databooks must be wrong on some points. Whether it is Obito or Kakashi, I don't know, tbh. it doesn't have much impact on the story etc., so I wont cry or shout over it. I just wanted to question the validity of using the databooks for evidence, since it has been contradicted by the manga a few times.

I can find more examples of mistakes from the databooks if you, for instance:

Spoiler

NINJUTSU; Suiton: Suigadan (Water Fang Bullets)
User: Uchiha Itachi
Offensive; Close range; Rank B

Main text

A technique to deal physical damage to the enemy with a liquid mass brought forth from underwater. Its power to kill and maim is augmented by adding a spinning motion to the compactly pressured water. During fights on water, taking advantage of its characteristic ability to attack from anywhere in a 360 degrees radius, in conjunction with other jutsu for distraction, confusion and so forth, this technique has an extensive array of applications.

Captions

-Lightning-fast bullets gathered from water. They come out of a blind spot and gore the enemy!!

Those bullets aren't as fast as lightning. I don't think Kishi would ever write that. Nonetheless I just wanted to say that jutsu in general are often over-exaggerated in the databooks, when you see them in the manga, they are usually weaker. Of course the "one-shot" jutsus are good enough, but they are also S-rank. You don't fight a B-rank jutsu that has the speed of a lightning.. But it's not like it matters much that they are over-exaggerated a bit. At least not in my opinion.

Lol interesting take on it,

as for the suiton jutsu, that's more of a hyperbole used in writing , not meant to be taken seriously ,

You wouldn't see anyone actually come saying that itachi's jutsu is as fast as lightning.. there are many hyperbole's in the manga aswell , such as zetsu calling itachi invincible etc..

 

[thegame]

Lol interesting take on it,

as for the suiton jutsu, that's more of a hyperbole used in writing , not meant to be taken seriously ,

You wouldn't see anyone actually come saying that itachi's jutsu is as fast as lightning.. there are many hyperbole's in the manga aswell , such as zetsu calling itachi invincible etc..

Yes exactly. But it seems that stuff like when they graduate, etc. wasn't given much thought from Kishi. Can't really expect him to think everything through. He probably just put an age depending on how skilled the person was. Yamato as well grad at 6, and chunin at 6, and with mokuton that is no wonder.