Data book confusion

[DeadManWonderLand]

It seems a good number of people have completely misunderstood the reasons for why the data book exist.
It only matters to a certain degree and does not constitute as who will win based of of a higher stat count.


There are 8 categories that shinobi are based off of


NINJUSTU - GENJUSTU - TAIJUSTU - INTELLIGENCE


STRENGTH - SPEED - STAMINA - HANDSEALS


The numbering system goes as follows
1 = Genin
2 = Chuunin
3 = Jonin
4 = Kage level
5 = Mastery


A shinobi who has matered all skil sets would earn a 40 in the data book.

Now as it is stated in the manga no one justu is above the rest.And pure power doe not always dictate who a winner is.
Intel also plays a role or even one specifci justu plays a role.

Examples are; Kisame fighting Guy one technique rendered kisame's ultimate justu useless because the match up between skill sets was just not in kisames favor.
Kabuto was immune to all genjustu and could not be killed by psychical attacks and rendered the susanoo useless but,since itachi had izanami he was ultimatly the victor in that fight.

Now someone also wanted to know why orochimaru who has a 5 in genjustu was caught in itachi's genjustu.

When two people are put in the same class of a certain cetagory it doesn't mean they are equals and will come into an automatic deadlock.
The shinobi's skills in those categories come into play.
There both masters in genjustu by data book standards although one has obviously mastered the skill to a higher degree.
And thus itachi won out and was able to capture him in his genjustu.

Now if someone has accumulated an overall higher stat in the data book this does not mean that they will beat someone with a lower stat total.

It comes down to the particular skills that they possess.

Someone can have a 30 and the other can have a 20

If that person with a 30 is a 1 or 2 in genjustu and the person with a 20 has a 5 in genjustu then they will all in likely hood capture that person in a genjustu.
(Though other variables come into play)

This can be seen in a tensei special jonin they are not overall as powerful as actual jonin they are just supperior to that jonin in one particular class.

A jonin will on average have 3's in everything or at least have a higher stat in one area if a certain skill does reach a 3 to balance it out.


So one jonin can have a 3 in everything and another jonin can have 3 in 6 categories and a 2 in one and 4 in the last.The overall stat count would put him at a jonin level overall.



So what i am trying to get across is that the data book only matters to a certain degree.

It does not create a tier list and it does not mean a person will beat out another just because his stats are higher.
It is only there to measure the growth of that individual and is not a means to coclude who would win indefinitely in a fight.


Say two had an even amount of stats it would come down to the personal skill level of those shinobi and there specific justu.


I would also like to note that EDO'S do not have a higher stat then ther alive counter parts.
Edo's come back as they were.There stamina is not raised nor is any other category when they seemingly get killed they just regenerate.It has nothing to do with increased stats.

Edo do not also posses unlimited chakra.
The chakra itself just regenerates.
When an person comes back as an edo the justu they have don't get stronger and the chakra pool does not increase.
The edo will not use justu on a higher scale.

There is a difference between unlimited chakra and chakra being regenerated.

 

[SharinganisOP]

In regards to that last part, wouldn't the stats change for edo madara and edo minato though? Madara was made so he was young again, and has the rinnegan. A power he didn't have when he was young and in his prime state.

Minato also has the kyuubi, something he had only moments before his death and couldn't use the kyuubi's power until he was edo.

I'm not going to say that there stats would increase, because the stats those particular things the rinnegan and the kyuubi would increase could have already been maxed, but I'm just saying some edos definitely have the potential to have a higher stats than when they were originally alive.

Everything Else you said seems pretty legitimate, more stat points don't always mean that person will win over a lower person due to a person having an advantage in an area, more intel, or having more skill in an evenly matched stat. At least that's pretty much what I got from it as a summary.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

In regards to that last part, wouldn't the stats change for edo madara and edo minato though? Madara was made so he was young again, and has the rinnegan. A power he didn't have when he was young and in his prime state.

Minato also has the kyuubi, something he had only moments before his death and couldn't use the kyuubi's power until he was edo.

I'm not going to say that there stats would increase, because the stats those particular things the rinnegan and the kyuubi would increase could have already been maxed, but I'm just saying some edos definitely have the potential to have a higher stats than when they were originally alive.

Everything Else you said seems pretty legitimate, more stat points don't always mean that person will win over a lower person due to a person having an advantage in an area, more intel, or having more skill in an evenly matched stat. At least that's pretty much what I got from it as a summary.

I said coming back as an edo in itself does not change your stats obviously if your actual powers are boosted or altered then yes of course the stats would change.


And once again no there potential for their stats will not and cannot go up.
Stats are based off your skills.

Being an edo does not raise your stats.

The justu exploits the fact that your chakra will just be regained and thus the edo can exploit there justu over and over again.

The justu itself never gets stronger.

Some mistaken an edo with unlimited chakra they do not have unlimited chakra.
It is the fact that once they cast a justu that chakra just comes back.The actual chakra pool does not increase

An edo who could only use a justu at a certain length or size will still only be able to use that justu to a certain length or size as when they were alive.

 

[ThomasJeffersonwasasadist]

edos don't run out of chakra. chakra= stamina. you're right they only matter so much but if there exists a large difference in stats the summer is obvious.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

edos don't run out of chakra. chakra= stamina. you're right they only matter so much but if there exists a large difference in stats the summer is obvious.

1.
That is why i said to certain degree if someone beats someone in all stats then the winner would be more then obvious

2.I never said they run out of chakra i said they don't have unlimited chakra there is a difference.Edo are brought back as they were same stats same chakra pool.
It just regenerates.


3. And no chakra does not equate to stamina.

Psychical energy (Yang) equates to stamina

Chakra can be relocated to certain parts of the body and boost a certain stat,that much is true.
But that requires that person to be a skilled chakra controller.


If someone has a large chakra pool it does not equate to the same amount of stamina.
Stamina is your psychical energy.
Once can utilize their chakra and send it to there tenketsu points to increase that part of the bodies endurance but stamina cannot be gained through chakra

 

[SharinganisOP]

I said coming back as an edo in itself does not change your stats obviously if your actual powers are boosted or altered then yes of course the stats would change.


And once again no there potential for their stats will not and cannot go up.
Stats are based off your skills.

Being an edo does not raise your stats.

The justu exploits the fact that your chakra will just be regained and thus the edo can exploit there justu over and over again.

The justu itself never gets stronger.

Some mistaken an edo with unlimited chakra they do not have unlimited chakra.
It is the fact that once they cast a justu that chakra just comes back.The actual chakra pool does not increase

An edo who could only use a justu at a certain length or size will still only be able to use that justu to a certain length or size as when they were alive.

This is why I said some edos have the potential to gain stats, not all. I know that it isn't necessarily the edo that is making them more powerful, but some could be more powerful as edos. The specific example is minato. Minato by having the kyuubi would increase in strength, ninjutsu (strength of the ninjutsu anyways), speed, and stamina. If you want to count the kyuubi as part of his intelligence, that would increase as well. All those things may already be at 5, but when he is edo they are definitely higher than when he was alive thanks to the kyuubi.

I also know that edos don't have unlimited chakra, as there are clear limits, but do regenerate chakra that they have used (Though I'd assume rather slowly, otherwise Nagato's chakra pool should have been full by the time they fought Naruto and bee). They also clearly can lose physical stamina as shown by Hashiramas panting, and Nagato's ability to gain physical stamina back hints it's also likely possible to lose it.

Anyways if you want to go off solely based just by being revived by edo tensei, then they shouldn't gain any stats just from just being edo'd (Which is the point I believe your trying to make). But modifications can be made or powers can be gained while they aren't alive to make their edo's stats higher.

 

[DeadManWonderLand]

This is why I said some edos have the potential to gain stats, not all. I know that it isn't necessarily the edo that is making them more powerful, but some could be more powerful as edos. The specific example is minato. Minato by having the kyuubi would increase in strength, ninjutsu (strength of the ninjutsu anyways), speed, and stamina. If you want to count the kyuubi as part of his intelligence, that would increase as well. All those things may already be at 5, but when he is edo they are definitely higher than when he was alive thanks to the kyuubi.

I also know that edos don't have unlimited chakra, as there are clear limits, but do regenerate chakra that they have used (Though I'd assume rather slowly, otherwise Nagato's chakra pool should have been full by the time they fought Naruto and bee). They also clearly can lose physical stamina as shown by Hashiramas panting, and Nagato's ability to gain physical stamina back hints it's also likely possible to lose it.

Anyways if you want to go off solely based just by being revived by edo tensei, then they shouldn't gain any stats just from just being edo'd (Which is the point I believe your trying to make). But modifications can be made or powers can be gained while they aren't alive to make their edo's stats higher.

The reason madara and minato are exceptions is not because they are edo its because the power they have has been upgraded through other means.At no point did i ever disagree with on you the fact that edo's with enhancements can be more powerful.
I was talking about regular edos.

What your bring up is a given.Which is why i did not bring that up.

And edo's stats are the same as they were alive hence that they are not more powerful AND nor they ever will be.

I get what you are saying
Here is an example.

2 edo's with a stat of 20 can fight a ninja with a stat of 30
Over time the shinobi who is alive will get tired his stamina will drop and he will run out of chakra.

The edo are not more powerful the just never go below there stats because the stats replenish making them more deadly not more powerful