[Discussion] Danzo was the successor of Madara Uchiha.

[Nidaime Suiton]

Often, people consider Danzo as the successor of Tobirama Senju. Yes in fact, they share some common traits, like "the end justifies the means". But that's all. In reality, Danzo despised Tobirama Senju as he despised all Hokage following Hashirama's path.
And especially because Tobirama humiliated him during the 1st Ninja War and appointed his rival, Hiruzen, as 3rd Hokage. In facts, the successor of Tobirama is Hiruzen, even though Hiruzen is a lot softer than him. But it is clear that Hiruzen is the successor of Hashirama and Tobirama.

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Paradoxally, Danzo shared Madara's path, even though he was responsible of the Uchiha massacre. I am comparing him with Madara when he was still a ninja from Konoha. Hashirama and Madara, both were candidates to become the 1st Hokage, their point of view were diametrically opposed about how Konoha should be. If Madara became the 1st Hokage, Konoha as we know today, wouldn't be the same. It would be a different village.

Madara left Konoha, but his inheritage didn't disapear. Danzo was the one who took over Madara's way (Konohian Madara). And this is mainly why Tobirama didn't chose him as 3rd Hokage, aside his selfishness, Tobirama also probably saw the shadow of Madara over Danzo.

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1. Both acted under the Hokage's back :

Before the 1st Great Ninja War, Madara attacked Mu and Onoki while Hashirama wasn't aware of that. He believed it was for the sake of Konoha.

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Danzo did exactly the same things, he acted several times under Hiruzen's back, for example during the 2nd Great Ninja War he allied himself with Hanzo to counter the former Akatsuki.

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2. Both used force as only way to deal with other :

While for example the 1st Hokage tried to promote peace between the 5 great villages

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Or the 2nd Hokage tried to conclude an alliance with Kumo

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Madara wanted to impose Konoha's power over the world. He wanted to submit every nation under Konoha's power.

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"There is no alliance. From here on, you will obey the leaf !"

Same thing for Danzo, he believed in Konoha supremacy over the world. And was angry when Hiruzen agreed on a peace accord with Kumo and Iwa.

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3. Peace only by force

Both wanted peace, but a different peace than Hashirama's or Naruto's.

It is implied that, contrary to Hashirama, Madara as 1st Hokage would have kept the 9 bijuus caught by Hashirama, and used the superpower of Konoha to impose a New World Order in which Konoha will be the center, from this point of view, the peace is guaranted because of Konoha's supreme authority.

This was exactly Danzo's plan when he decided to become the 6th Hokage. His plan was to use Shisui's genjutsu to manipulate Mifune, then be appointed as the leader of the Shinobi alliance, making him as the leader of the world. Then we can assume that Danzo would have tried during the 4th Great Ninja War to weaken the other villages and make sure Konoha is preserved from the war casualties, finally making Konoha as the world superpower as Madara dreamed.

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4. Both were hungry of power

Madara and Danzo didn't have any ethics, all was good to increase their power, and they always felt the need to increase their power.

Madara took Izuna's eyes, then he took Hashirama's cells, then he became the jinchuriki of Juubi.

Danzo took Shisui's eyes, then he took Hashiramas's celles, then he took 10 sharingan.

Madara created White Zetsu. Danzo ordered the creation of Yamato.

 

[minamoto]

don't compare madara to tanzo madara is on league of his own..and madara didn't creat white zesus...madara only created spiral zesu..

 

[Nidaime Suiton]

don't compare madara to tanzo madara is on league of his own..and madara didn't creat white zesus...madara only created spiral zesu..

I was talking about Madara when he was still a ninja from Konoha.

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Obviously Madara reached another league when he left Konoha and made his own plan followed Black Zetsu's plan.

 

[minamoto]

I was talking about Madara when he was still a ninja from Konoha.

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Obviously Madara reached another league when he left Konoha and made his own plan followed Black Zetsu's plan.

madara did have his own plan that he devised...it's called TEH "DREAM WORLD"...but you all mistook it for mugen sukoyomi plan...

mugen sukoyomi plan is just a stage leading to dream world utopia goal..

 

[Nidaime Suiton]

madara did have his own plan that he devised...it's called TEH "DREAM WORLD"...but you all mistook it for mugen sukoyomi plan...

mugen sukoyomi plan is just a stage leading to dream world utopia goal..

Indeed, Madara's plan was a bit different than Kaguya's. He wanted to reign over the world and impose peace by making people dive into their dream. But Madara ignored that all people caught into the Infinite Tsukuyomi will be transformed into White Zetsu, and that was Kaguya's plan, she wanted to get the chakra she gave back and create an entire army of white zetsu.

But anyway, the topic here is Madara's character when he was still a jonin of konoha, and his plan and point of view at this time was very similar to Danzo's.

 

[minamoto]

Indeed, Madara's plan was a bit different than Kaguya's. He wanted to reign over the world and impose peace by making people dive into their dream. But Madara ignored that all people caught into the Infinite Tsukuyomi will be transformed into White Zetsu, and that was Kaguya's plan, she wanted to get the chakra she gave back and create an entire army of white zetsu.

But anyway, the topic here is Madara's character when he was still a jonin of konoha, and his plan and point of view at this time was very similar to Danzo's.

bro do you know what is madara's true worth in naruto manga???...cuz im afriad if you don't then you know noting about his character..

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

It's a cool outlook, but I think Tobirama shares most of these traits too. When Hashirama was sharing Bijuus between the nations, The 2nd opposed it. Tobirama also was power hungry and kept making techniques because of it. Madara wasn't acting behind Hashiama's back either. He and Hashirama had already had a falling out at that point, which is why Madara says not to mention Hashirama's name.

I do think the parallel is still there though. Like how Madara couldn't become Hokage because of The Second Hokage. Danzo also couldn't become Hokage because of The Second. After that, both went underground and began their scheming. Literally so for Madara. Danzo goes to form roots, and Madara spawns the roots of a Divine Tree and lives off of it.

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They even have own foils. Danzo and The Third Hokage is the equivalent of Madara and The First Hokage. There's also the part where they both use seals on their puppets. Danzo placed his own on Sai and Madara placed his curse on Obito. Both modified their bodies to have Senju DNA. Both cheated death with Izanagi. Both are turncoats that probably would've remained loyal (Danzo values himself far more than the village which is why he didn't fight off Pain and had assassination attempts on Hiruzen) if they had became hokage.

 

[minamoto]

It's a cool outlook, but I think Tobirama shares most of these traits too. When Hashirama was sharing Bijuus between the nations, The 2nd opposed it. Tobirama also was power hungry and kept making techniques because of it. Madara wasn't acting behind Hashiama's back either. He and Hashirama had already had a falling out at that point, which is why Madara says not to mention Hashirama's name.

I do think the parallel is still there though. Like how Madara couldn't become Hokage because of The Second Hokage. Danzo also couldn't become Hokage because of The Second. After that, both went underground and began their scheming. Literally so for Madara. Danzo goes to form roots, and Madara spawns the roots of a Divine Tree and lives off of it.

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They even have own foils. Danzo and The Third Hokage is the equivalent of Madara and The First Hokage. There's also the part where they both use seals on their puppets. Danzo placed his own on Sai and Madara placed his curse on Obito. Both modified their bodies to have Senju DNA. Both cheated death with Izanagi. Both are turncoats that probably would've remained loyal (Danzo values himself far more than the village which is why he didn't fight off Pain and had assassination attempts on Hiruzen) if they had became hokage.

not only madara placed pupet curse on teh Bobito hearrt...but also madara was indeed masked tobi...allow me to be cocky lil but i am teh greatest theorist i unravel mysteries...i just pissed me how kishimoto pissed true reveal of tobi's reall ID to be madara and spiral zetsu...

i also know what one piece believe me...and i know why golt T roger and his frendz laughted...my only problem is bad spoken english...

plz narrate youtube vid for me or find someone who do it..

 

[salamander uchiha]

Madara still wanted to protect the Uchiha until they betrayed him he even tried to convince them to leave Konoha for their safety. Danzo was a stsuch enemy of the Uchiha and adhered to Tobirama's will. He considered himself yhe true successor of Tobirama, which is why he disliked Hashirama's philosophy. As for the point about controlling/wanted to control outcomes, then that too was Tobirama's philosophy. He laid out plans, and strategies, even undermining wherever he could so he could complete his goal.


The only OOC moment for Tobirama is choosing to die for his team, so they could escape. I think the only reason he did that was because he thought he had passed on the will of Nazirama.

 

[Infant]

Its a light and darkness thing, @wanderingcactus understands it superbly

If one guy is lighthearted, the other will appear gloomy, even if this other person is actually more lighthearted than everyone else besides the first person. Its like how Asuma is darker than Gai, but is lighter than Kakashi. Asuma isn't necessarily light or darkness himself, but he can look that way depending on who you compare him to.

Overall, i think youre right. There are too many parallels for it to just be comparative, but even parallels can just be a matter of situational coincidence

 

[minamoto]

Its a light and darkness thing, @wanderingcactus understands it superbly

If one guy is lighthearted, the other will appear gloomy, even if this other person is actually more lighthearted than everyone else besides the first person. Its like how Asuma is darker than Gai, but is lighter than Kakashi. Asuma isn't necessarily light or darkness himself, but he can look that way depending on who you compare him to.

Overall, i think youre right. There are too many parallels for it to just be comparative, but even parallels can just be a matter of situational coincidence

you wanna join my tobidara clan????..

 

[Infant]

you wanna join my tobidara clan????..

I must understand . . .

1. What is the clan?
What's it about? Why is it a clan?

2. Why is the clan?
For what reason does it exist and operate?

3. How is the clan?
How does it operate? What are its fundamental and functional principles?

Most importantly, what does it mean to join the clan? What does it membership entail?

Otherwise, I'm honoured by the invitation

 

[minamoto]

I must understand . . .

1. What is the clan?
What's it about? Why is it a clan?

2. Why is the clan?
For what reason does it exist and operate?

3. How is the clan?
How does it operate? What are its fundamental and functional principles?

Most importantly, what does it mean to join the clan? What does it membership entail?

Otherwise, I'm honoured by the invitation

it's like akasuki groupe...we defend and spread tobidara truth and cult...our motto mystery of tobi is'nt over and madara uchiha is reall masked tobi not some fvvcking fodder character named bobito...ok???..

 

[wanderingcactus]

ehh, yes and no.

During the inauguration of Konoha, Hashirama and Madara became the leaders of the newly formed village. While many clans ended up choosing Hashirama as their leader, Madara also held the same power as Hashirama.

If I recall correctly, there was an explanation of power in Konoha where the hokage is the power in the light while the root is the one in the shadows. Like a tree, the hokage is the one that grows upwards toward the sunlight while the leader of the root is the one that grows downwards toward deep within the earth.

While the root is conceived by Danzo, its existence had been there due to Madara working in tandem with and at times against Hashirama.

I would say that the Tobirama era was blank as he both served as the hokage and the "root" leader. He was against Hashirama's policies and yet upheld it until his demise. His reign was short that there wouldn't be any way of implementing a rival to Tobirama.

So in a way, Danzo was Madara's successor of being the shadow leader of Konoha. But he is not a successor of Madara as we know that it would be Sasuke.

 

[minamoto]

ehh, yes and no.

During the inauguration of Konoha, Hashirama and Madara became the leaders of the newly formed village. While many clans ended up choosing Hashirama as their leader, Madara also held the same power as Hashirama.

If I recall correctly, there was an explanation of power in Konoha where the hokage is the power in the light while the root is the one in the shadows. Like a tree, the hokage is the one that grows upwards toward the sunlight while the leader of the root is the one that grows downwards toward deep within the earth.

While the root is conceived by Danzo, its existence had been there due to Madara working in tandem with and at times against Hashirama.

I would say that the Tobirama era was blank as he both served as the hokage and the "root" leader. He was against Hashirama's policies and yet upheld it until his demise. His reign was short that there wouldn't be any way of implementing a rival to Tobirama.

So in a way, Danzo was Madara's successor of being the shadow leader of Konoha. But he is not a successor of Madara as we know that it would be Sasuke.

are you crazy????...sasuke won't reach madara's hair..

 

[wanderingcactus]

are you crazy????...sasuke won't reach madara's hair..

yeah, at best shoulder length.

 

[minamoto]

yeah, at best shoulder length.

madara is so stronger then sasuke that he can master sharingan powers wihout using sharingan..

 

[Avaitto]

madara is so stronger then sasuke that he can master sharingan powers wihout using sharingan..

Sasuke used PS with his right eye being sharingan not MS so he must be able to do the same, even Corona Itachi used susanoo with blind eyes!

 

[Infant]

it's like akasuki groupe...we defend and spread tobidara truth and cult...our motto mystery of tobi is'nt over and madara uchiha is reall masked tobi not some fvvcking fodder character named bobito...ok???..

Interesting

More questions in the coming days