[VS] Danzo vs Kakashi

[Brother Numpsay]

He doesn't have to run away....Once the wind picks up he'll put an earth wall down to stop himself.

So wait your saying he can't move his hands while being sucked in? He can't make hand seals?

The only reason why susanno couldn't move is because it had to anchor itself down. Not because "the suction made it immovable"

Danzo karin and madara were more or less unaffected by it(the former moving freely while the latter two remained still.)

Or if need be kakashi can kamui himself behind it.

-The suction comes out really fast. Something Sasuke couldn't counter instantly.
- Of course he can. What he can't do is properly finish the jutsu, since he is getting sucked in. The suction would be picking him up from the air at that point.

-Are you reading your sentence... The suction is the reason why it needed to anchor itself. The shows the testimony of the the suctions power. Any other actions will determine Sasuke and Sussanoo's fate.

-You cannot expect your own jutsu to self defeat yourself. Danzo personally knows how to deal with his own jutsu. Karin already was at the wall. Tobi was out of its powerful range.

-This is the only effective counter, which Prince Charles already pointed out. Anything else will just benefit Danzo, via copying new elemental jutsu, while Baku owns the match up already

 

[BenjerminGaye]

-The suction comes out really fast. Something Sasuke couldn't counter instantly.
- Of course he can. What he can't do is properly finish the jutsu, since he is getting sucked in. The suction would be picking him up from the air at that point.

-Are you reading your sentence... The suction is the reason why it needed to anchor itself. The shows the testimony of the the suctions power. Any other actions will determine Sasuke and Sussanoo's fate.

-You cannot expect your own jutsu to self defeat yourself. Danzo personally knows how to deal with his own jutsu. Karin already was at the wall. Tobi was out of its powerful range.

-This is the only effective counter, which Prince Charles already pointed out. Anything else will just benefit Danzo, via copying new elemental jutsu, while Baku owns the match up already

So if he can make hand seals then nothing stops him from making a earth wall since its a 1 seal tech.
Sasuke couldn't do anything due to his position. Which honestly is the biggest factor here. If he's in danzo's or obito's location he won't be affected. You already admitted that.
If he's in sasuke's location he's more or less screwed.(altitude does play a factor here since sasuke was in the least wind resistant location)
If he's in karins location, or if he drops an earth wall before making it to baku's mouth he'll be again unaffected.

So with all that the question becomes how far away is Baku when he gets summoned?

20 m(I believe that's the starting distance) with both on level plane gives kakashi enough time to put himself in karin's situation. And even then baku isn't something danzo leads with.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

So with all that the question becomes how far away is Baku when he gets summoned?

20 m(I believe that's the starting distance) with both on level plane gives kakashi enough time to put himself in karin's situation. And even then baku isn't something danzo leads with.

That's Danzo's decision on when to use it. Danzo picks the best solution to where Baku will be effective.

My premise never to start it with Baku. I was merely speaking of his Summoning being the game breaker.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

That's Danzo's decision on when to use it. Danzo picks the best solution to where Baku will be effective.

My premise never to start it with Baku. I was merely speaking of his Summoning being the game breaker.

Not quite. If kakashi starts his clone games (which he usually does towards the beginning of the fight) he might end up using it on a clone.
Another question does danzo have access to shisui's eye?

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Not quite. If kakashi starts his clone games he might end up using it on a clone.

Kakashi will be using those at the beginning for analyze. Danzo is not dumb to keep falling from the same trick. Especially when Danzo can use Sharingan color chakra to scout any other bodies.

Another question does danzo have access to shisui's eye?

Yes. Only KA is restricted. Danzo is allow to use any Sharingan ability other then KA.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Kakashi will be using those at the beginning for analyze. Danzo is not dumb to keep falling from the same trick. Especially when Danzo can use Sharingan color chakra to scout any other bodies.



Yes. Only KA is restricted. Danzo is allow to use any Sharingan ability other then KA.

Kakashi uses it until he can ensure a hit. Until then it's clones.
He fell for Le sauce's genjutsu twice in ten minutes... let's not put clone tricks that fooled the likes of itachi or pain ahead of him.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Kakashi uses it until he can ensure a hit. Until then it's clones.
He fell for Le sauce's genjutsu twice in ten minutes... let's not put clone tricks that fooled the likes of itachi or pain ahead of him.

Until? Not a chance, his chakra level will not allow it to keep splitting portions of his chakra.
He fell for Sasuke genjutsu only because he does not have his Shisui Sharingan (That eye was completely restricted from that match) to see right through the Genjutsu. Thats not happening here.

Kakashi fooled them once. Thats all.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Until? Not a chance, his chakra level will not allow it to keep splitting portions of his chakra.
He fell for Sasuke genjutsu only because he does not have his Shisui Sharingan (That eye was completely restricted from that match) to see right through the Genjutsu. Thats not happening here.

Kakashi fooled them once. Thats all.

His STAMINA will be fine. He doesn't have to convert all of it for every clone.
And kakashi fooled itachi twice(albeit on different occasions) and only fooled pain once because he had a plan that would ensure a hit.

Either way in a location like this kakashi has many ways to break line of sight, and use water and lightening techs to the fullest of their abilities.

 

[pateuvasiliu]

Kakashi high diff.

While Danzo has the advantage of Izanagi, he lacks the ability to actually kill Kakashi.

 

[Seventh Sama]

I like this matchup.... seems interesting. but kakashi would win high diff. due to genjutsu.... the only problen with kakashi is his chakra reserves

 

[Bronze]

-How does Kakashi leave a Bushin to fight, while Danzo doesn't see it, in your scenario? 2nd, who will win the fight between Danzo and Kakashi's clone, to determine how he will analyze his situation?

-Show all the scans of Kakashi using Bushin, and I promise you he complains about his chakra reserves. Thus why he does not use Multi Bushins in battle. Multi Bushin also makes it obvious that Kakashi will be hiding his original body. Not effective when Danzo also has a Sharingan socket in his eye, to see right through it.

Danzo's fuuton scale shows easily that it can cut through Kakashi's Doton, Suiton, and Raiton like butter. In fact, Asuma's comment says it best[

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].

Kakashi focus shot on Baku, then gets killed by Danzo.

-Cause Danzo is going to see through Bunshin which Rinnegan and Byakugan had failed to distinguish. Sharingan has weaker perception than both of them, so Danzo won't know if it's the real one. Kakashi'a Bunshin was a doing a good job holding its own against Deva and Asura, as well as against 6 Jinchuuriki, Bijuu, and Gedo Mazo. So it can hold its own very long against someone like Danzo.

-He complained in the past where he had lower Chakra levels and Stamina. OP made it War ARC, therefore he has nothing to worry about.

-Sorry but I disagree. Danzo may have a number of Fuuton, but all of them are utterly weak against Kakashi's scale of elements attacks. Kakashi is more than capable of blocking all of his Fuuton attacks if we were to go by feats. Kakuzu who has a enormous size, scale and raw power using his Fuuton which is stronger than Danzo's (no contest), in conjunction with his enormous size, scale and raw power of Katon was blocked by Kakashi's Suiton wall. Kakashi is also in water land, meaning his water wall can extend bigger. His Doton wall was shown to block against Obito's black rod and shuriken which equals to Madara's Yasaka Magatama. If you think Danzo's pity Fuuton attacks can compare to Kakuzu's Fire&Wind attacks which Kakashi blocked, then you're only riding Danzo.

Lol, this is a joke right?. Danzo wasn't even fast enough to kill Sasuke who was badly injured and tired, yet he is fast enough to kill Kakashi who has larger Chakra and stamina. Taken consideration of his instant Kamui that Obito failed to see through.

Sorry, but Kakashi clearly stomps Danzo.

 

[End of Days]

Did you read the sentence where wind release is an insulator of lightening release? Where electric charges do not flow freely, and therefore does not conduct an electric current under the influence of an electric field? Thus concludes lightening canceling out from the wind current?

Raikiri remains on the kunai, kakashi is not trying to make an electric current flow through the air

Baku is simply sucking up surrounding air, saying it will nullify Raikiri is like saying kakashi cannot use Raikiri on his hand because there is air present all around him

kunai punches a hole in Baku

 

[Brother Numpsay]

-Cause Danzo is going to see through Bunshin which Rinnegan and Byakugan had failed to distinguish. Sharingan has weaker perception than both of them, so Danzo won't know if it's the real one. Kakashi'a Bunshin was a doing a good job holding its own against Deva and Asura, as well as against 6 Jinchuuriki, Bijuu, and Gedo Mazo. So it can hold its own very long against someone like Danzo.

-He complained in the past where he had lower Chakra levels and Stamina. OP made it War ARC, therefore he has nothing to worry about.

-Sorry but I disagree. Danzo may have a number of Fuuton, but all of them are utterly weak against Kakashi's scale of elements attacks. Kakashi is more than capable of blocking all of his Fuuton attacks if we were to go by feats. Kakuzu who has a enormous size, scale and raw power using his Fuuton which is stronger than Danzo's (no contest), in conjunction with his enormous size, scale and raw power of Katon was blocked by Kakashi's Suiton wall. Kakashi is also in water land, meaning his water wall can extend bigger. His Doton wall was shown to block against Obito's black rod and shuriken which equals to Madara's Yasaka Magatama. If you think Danzo's pity Fuuton attacks can compare to Kakuzu's Fire&Wind attacks which Kakashi blocked, then you're only riding Danzo.

Lol, this is a joke right?. Danzo wasn't even fast enough to kill Sasuke who was badly injured and tired, yet he is fast enough to kill Kakashi who has larger Chakra and stamina. Taken consideration of his instant Kamui that Obito failed to see through.

Sorry, but Kakashi clearly stomps Danzo.

- First of all, your comment about perception ability of the Sharingan<<byakugan and Reinngan(What??). You didn't answer my question, concerning your premise. The reason I stated this question was because Deva and Itachi gave Kakashi opportunity to leave bushin. Deva blows him away, Kakashi hides himself from the debris behind him. Itachi use Fire Release, Kakashi took advantage, and hides with Doton. This leaves the question on how he will do this to a different character, in scenario. What if Danzo charges at Kakashi, no ninjutsu, or do anything to that would force Kakashi to sneak in a Bushin, from the location given. What happens if Danzo beats the Bushin. Wouldn't leave Danzo vulnerable for Kakashi to kill? Kakashi kills him and Danzo places a seal on Kakashi's back due to Izanagi spawn. So what scenario will leave Kakashi winning, with Bushin analyze. Will the Bushin win against Danzo, thus Danzo will force to use Izanagi? And Kakashi will see that? I am basically dragging my premise to get what I am saying so Ill quote to summarize it:

How does Kakashi leave a Bushin to fight, while Danzo doesn't see it, in your scenario? 2nd, who will win the fight between Danzo and Kakashi's clone, to determine how he will analyze his situation?

-[

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]. Nothing change even in the war arc. In fact even fodders had all the chakra reserves to keep fighting in the SA, so using war arc as an excuse of higher chakra reserves doesn't cut it. Kakashi had plenty of time to recover chakra then, and during battles.

-Going by feats, your interpretation of overpowering Danzo's because "x-y-z" are wrong. What makes Fuuton the best offensive element attack is where I already stated, from the manga[

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][

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][

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]. Danzo choice of Wind Release is what Asuma just explained. The ability of cutting power. This is what separates Danzo's Futton to Kakuzu, where as Kakuzu rely on pressure damage then a "focused" cutting damage. Danzo has demonstrated to infuse basic ninja tools too[

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]. Due to Danzo's proficiency and Wind Release being the best offensive power, cutting damage, any Suiton and Doton will lose from close-mid range. Not only were you wrong when it comes to wind release cutting power, you are wrong stating Kakashi Suiton overpowered Kakuzu's Fire+Wind, when the manga stated otherwise. And even then, that wasn't even Kakuzu's full power with the justsu[

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]][

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]. Full power dwarfs trees(as tall/wide) (tall tress if I may add[

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]), while Kakuzu use a smaller version that Kakashi clearly stated wasn't enough[

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](look at the nearest tree). But of course the comparison to cutting power is the primary focus here.

-Bad comparison, since Kakashi won't be sitting on Sussanoo projecting from the powerful suction and neglecting the attack first.

-Really?

Raikiri remains on the kunai, kakashi is not trying to make an electric current flow through the air

No more like through the wind thats being gathered (not air) via Baku powerful suction

Baku is simply sucking up surrounding air, saying it will nullify Raikiri is like saying kakashi cannot use Raikiri on his hand because there is air present all around him

Nope, because the the wind its gathering becomes the electrical insulator, not the stabilized atmosphere.

kunai punches a hole in Baku

Nope he will be only eating the kunai.

 

[Bogard]

Kakashi mid difficulty. He doesn't even need kamui to win. His KB tricks would be enough to counter Danzos 10minutes max of izanagi, so in the end using izanagi would be Danzos downfall in this match up and if he doesn't he gets killed even more easier judging by his weak physical capabilities in other departments

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Kakashi mid difficulty. He doesn't even need kamui to win. His KB tricks would be enough to counter Danzos 10minutes max of izanagi, so in the end using izanagi would be Danzos downfall in this match up and if he doesn't he gets killed even more easier judging by his weak physical capabilities in other departments

Stop wanking KB analyze please. The strategy is only effective once in a battle. Stating other wise is simply stating Danzo dumb to fall for it, for the next 10 mins.

 

[~Sky~]

The scenario you and Sky are playing is simply Kakashi ignoring the powerful suction, thus your conclusion is that he has the body weight and strength to ignore the suction.

If you really think that's what my argument was, then you clearly didn't read anything I was saying.

 

[HiddenSound]

Kakashi mid difficulty. He doesn't even need kamui to win. His KB tricks would be enough to counter Danzos 10minutes max of izanagi, so in the end using izanagi would be Danzos downfall in this match up and if he doesn't he gets killed even more easier judging by his weak physical capabilities in other departments

Do you really think Danzō would fall for such a simple strategy for 10 minutes?
Kakashi needs Kamui. Without it, he can't win.

 

[Bronze]

-Neji in his fight against Naruto, stated that his Byakugan cannot distinguish clones. Pain also couldn't distinguish clones either. Sasuke and Obito who we're fighting against clones, their Sharingan couldn't help him knowing which one is the real. How in the world will Danzo who is inferior at using Dojutsu will distinguish Kakashi's clones?. Even if Danzo manages to beat the clone, then Kakashi will still be able to create another one as he is hiding underground analysing Izanagi's mechanics.

-that was in fact Kakashi who had been fighting full day non stop against 7 Sword men of Kirigakure. In P1, he made multiple Bunshin and he didn't have side effects. This time against Danzo, he will be just fine. Even if deciding not to use Kage Bunshin, he is in water land and shown to create water without any source. He can create a Mizu Bunshin to fight for him as it only uses 10% of Kakashi's strength.

-nothing implies or shows Danzo has stronger Futon attacks. In the scan you posted, Futon grants highest cutting power, meaning your definition of Kakuzu's Futon attack is incorrect. He is utilizing a much higher raw power of wind cutting in conjunction with destructive power capable of destroying a forest. That is superior to Danzo's pity Futon which you're overrating. I never said Kakashi overpowered them did i. I simply said he blocked the attack which he did for short amount of time though. Doesnt matter if it was full powered or not, it was in fact stronger than any of Danzo's a Futon attacks at both cutting and destruction. Kakashi will easily block al of Danzo's Futon.

-That would also put Danzo in trouble if he gets close to Baku as he will get sucked in meaning he will get finished by Kamui taking him along with his summoning.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Stop wanking KB analyze please. The strategy is only effective once in a battle. Stating other wise is simply stating Danzo dumb to fall for it, for the next 10 mins.

Sharingan can't tell the difference between shadow clones and the original. There's no wanking. Kakashi can send in another clone(if by any chance danzo beats the first clone) and danzo doesn't have the means to distinguish it.

Here he can hide in the bridge itself, in the surrounding forest, and in the river below.

Such tactics are what he's know for according to pain to the point that even when kakashi was on his death bed deva path was afraid to come close to him.

Kakashi takes him in cqc(clone or not)
And can analyze the trick to his izanagi much faster than la sauce did.He analyzed deva paths abilities after its 3rd use and then analyzed the cool down time after its 5th. So it's not going to take him 7 minutes to figure out like le sauce.

Further more danzo can only use weak techs while izanagi it's cast. Limiting what he can do to oppose kakashi, while his clones have used kakashi's top techs like raikiri, and his known feint techs like hiding like mole.

Kakashi just like sasuke will pick up on his habit of looking at his hand. And unlike sasuke will take note of his fluctuating chakra levels. All in all kakashi takes it. High diff.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

If you really think that's what my argument was, then you clearly didn't read anything I was saying.

Then why did you try to make a premise of countering Baku, if otherwise

-Neji in his fight against Naruto, stated that his Byakugan cannot distinguish clones. Pain also couldn't distinguish clones either. Sasuke and Obito who we're fighting against clones, their Sharingan couldn't help him knowing which one is the real. How in the world will Danzo who is inferior at using Dojutsu will distinguish Kakashi's clones?

First ABC logics doesn't work here as all Doujutsu have different feats.

Second I never made a claim that Danzo will distinguish Kakashi's clones. What I said is the analyze strategy, Kakashi uses, with Kage Bushin is only effective once. Kakashi doing again, hiding and let clones fight, will be suspicious, which any Sharingan can scout out. Sasuke displayed this Deidara[

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] and Kabuto's snakes[

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], Itachi said he saw Kakashi (last minute[

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].) Madara said only he saw through Harashima's clone bushin[

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]. Meaning fooling for it twice sound idiotic.

Third you keep dodging my question.

Even if Danzo manages to beat the clone, then Kakashi will still be able to create another one as he is hiding underground analysing Izanagi's mechanics.

Once again your making the character looks stupid if you think he will constantly fall for the same trick.

-that was in fact Kakashi who had been fighting full day non stop against 7 Sword men of Kirigakure. In P1, he made multiple Bunshin and he didn't have side effects. This time against Danzo, he will be just fine. Even if deciding not to use Kage Bunshin, he is in water land and shown to create water without any source. He can create a Mizu Bunshin to fight for him as it only uses 10% of Kakashi's strength.

He wasn't the only one, moot point. He had plenty of time to recover as much as Guy and every other Shinobi alliance.

Now how is 10% Kakashi going be effective to do anything.

If this argument is leading towards Bushins stricktly for the main victory then Danzo simply copies the jutsu to use all the Bushins and do the same strategy, you claims of making sound, uncountable and undetectable, no matter how many times.

-nothing implies or shows Danzo has stronger Futon attacks. In the scan you posted, Futon grants highest cutting power, meaning your definition of Kakuzu's Futon attack is incorrect. He is utilizing a much higher raw power of wind cutting in conjunction with destructive power capable of destroying a forest. That is superior to Danzo's pity Futon which you're overrating. I never said Kakashi overpowered them did i. I simply said he blocked the attack which he did for short amount of time though. Doesnt matter if it was full powered or not, it was in fact stronger than any of Danzo's a Futon attacks at both cutting and destruction. Kakashi will easily block al of Danzo's Futon.

Ill wait for your evidence that Kakuzu Futon has cutting power, if thats what your implying.

Kakashi statement contradicts your claim of blocking. 2nd, your going to need more evidence to claim Kakashi ever attempt to counter Kakuzu's ninjutsu. Theres a difference between what Kakuzu's Mask did against Kakashi's Suiton then the ninjutsu elements can perform. Meaning Kakashi never counter: Katon: Zukokku and Fūton: Atsugai. Not to mention that the Fire Mask was eating the Wind Release, to power up its Fire. In the end every point of bringing Kakuzu countering Kakashi is moot.

-That would also put Danzo in trouble if he gets close to Baku as he will get sucked in meaning he will get finished by Kamui taking him along with his summoning.

No it doesn't Danzo is not effected by his own attack[

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][

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].

Kamui doesn't stop Izanagi, period[

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].

Sharingan can't tell the difference between shadow clones and the original. There's no wanking. Kakashi can send in another clone(if by any chance danzo beats the first clone) and danzo doesn't have the means to distinguish it.

Here he can hide in the bridge itself, in the surrounding forest, and in the river below.

Such tactics are what he's know for according to pain to the point that even when kakashi was on his death bed deva path was afraid to come close to him.

Kakashi takes him in cqc(clone or not)
And can analyze the trick to his izanagi much faster than la sauce did.He analyzed deva paths abilities after its 3rd use and then analyzed the cool down time after its 5th. So it's not going to take him 7 minutes to figure out like le sauce.

Further more danzo can only use weak techs while izanagi it's cast. Limiting what he can do to oppose kakashi, while his clones have used kakashi's top techs like raikiri, and his known feint techs like hiding like mole.

Kakashi just like sasuke will pick up on his habit of looking at his hand. And unlike sasuke will take note of his fluctuating chakra levels. All in all kakashi takes it. High diff.

Again the Bushins are only effective once. It gets obvious that one body is hiding, doing it again.