Danzo and Hiruzen vs Gai and Kakashi

[BenjerminGaye]

Baku solos kakashI

only fire ****s baku which kakashi doesn't have ..

In that location kakashi drowns it with water vortex

 

[Legendary Toad Sage]

Izanagi isn't a problem here.

Gai with intel opens up his gates off the bat and stops Danzo from ever unsealing his arm.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Baku ain't doing jack, Gai's morning peacock causes flames/fire which will be enhanced by the wind. Baku gets one shorted by Gai.

OT: team 2 high diff

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

Gai with intel opens up his gates off the bat and stops Danzo from ever unsealing his arm.

holding up your arms and shouting "AHHH 6TH GATE OPEEEN" takes at least as long as danzo doing a few handseals. remember he can sacrifice that right eye for 1 minute izanagi

 

[DMT]

If gai touched danzo he is dead because

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Gai kills danzo

Izanagi saves danzo

then danzo use Juinjutsu on him


...

 

[BenjerminGaye]

holding up your arms and shouting "AHHH 6TH GATE OPEEEN" takes at least as long as danzo doing a few handseals. remember he can sacrifice that right eye for 1 minute izanagi

No danzo has to take the screws out of his gauntlet, take off his gauntlet. By then guy is hitting him with severe leaf hurricane. If he sacrifices shisui's eye he can't copy kakashi's tech's and blinds him in one eye. Taking away his perception of depth, and limiting his range of sight.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

holding up your arms and shouting "AHHH 6TH GATE OPEEEN" takes at least as long as danzo doing a few handseals. remember he can sacrifice that right eye for 1 minute izanagi

No danzo has to take the screws out of his gauntlet, take off his gauntlet. By then guy is hitting him with severe leaf hurricane. If he sacrifices shisui's eye he can't copy kakashi's tech's and blinds him in one eye. Taking away his perception of depth, and limiting his range of sight.

 

[RicardoA]

Kakashi doesn't have sharingan anymore. Why restricting something that he doesn't have? ._.

OT: The old guys win.
Hiruzen counter a huge part of Kakashi's arsenal, is better in CQC and has more power behind his attacks with Enma pole.
Danzo is a good counter to Gai's gates. He can force Gai to tire myself just to stay alive and eventually paralyse him using Baku to support him.

 

[Nattana]

Danzo most likely solos.

 

[Braiyan]

how do you blitz when you dont know how far away they start. this isnt a fair fight unless izanagis already on

All characters starting in base (i.e Danzo does not already have Izanagi activated) is not a fair fight? It's not my fault Guy can activate his Gates faster than Danzo can unseal his arm.

 

[Brother Numpsay]

Guy isn't blitzing Danzo, without him doing nothing. He can easily create debris with Futon and catch him off guard with Sharingan Genjutsu. It takes less then 10 secs to remove the gauntlet.

 

[LuckyMan]

Danzo arguably solos
Hiruzen arguably solos.

Whoever touches Danzo in this fight will die from Juinjutsu, simple as that. Danzo can easily solo.

Team Jounin can't kill Danzo without touching him therefore whenever they do, and should the blow be fatal, he Izanagi spawns and activates Juinjutsu. Done.

Hiruzen can arguably solo both of them. He is faster than Gai and Kakashi in base and only a 7th Gate Gai can equal his speed. Kakashi or Gai would both be killed with the Elemental One-Shot, what I like to call it. That move is on too much of a large scale for either of them to dodge and is certainly killing them both.

 

[Inert Brian]

I see Danzo and Hiruzen are being underestimated here, but I can understand why.


If Danzo was capable of putting a curse mark on MS Sauce, Base Gai is getting a CM on him. Same goes with 3T Kakashi.

If Gai uses 6+ gates then he'll become a non factor after Danzo's Izanagi screws him over. But he may kill Hiruzen.

Counter to Baku? Gai using 6+ gates, which as stated above will kill Hiruzen but will screw Gai over.

3T Kakashi gets demolished by Danzo, I won't waste my time arguing this point, except that it took MS Sauce's Mangekyou spam to force him out of Izanagi.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

I see Danzo and Hiruzen are being underestimated here, but I can understand why.


If Danzo was capable of putting a curse mark on MS Sauce, Base Gai is getting a CM on him. Same goes with 3T Kakashi.

If Gai uses 6+ gates then he'll become a non factor after Danzo's Izanagi screws him over. But he may kill Hiruzen.

Counter to Baku? Gai using 6+ gates, which as stated above will kill Hiruzen but will screw Gai over.

3T Kakashi gets demolished by Danzo, I won't waste my time arguing this point, except that it took MS Sauce's Mangekyou spam to force him out of Izanagi.

Danzo gets murdered before he even takes off his gauntlet to setup izanagi. Fact.hirudora/water Dragon/water vortex/asakujaku kill him.
If hiruzen tries to cover for him while he sets up hiruzen is gonna take a raikiri to the chest.

Tbaku gets drowned by water vortex or gets his mouth burned of by asakujaku. Take your pick.
With knowledge izanagi isn't even a threat. Not that he'll get a chance to use it anyways.

 

[Inert Brian]

Danzo gets murdered before he even takes off his gauntlet to setup izanagi. Fact.hirudora/water Dragon/water vortex/asakujaku kill him.
If hiruzen tries to cover for him while he sets up hiruzen is gonna take a raikiri to the chest.

Tbaku gets drowned by water vortex or gets his mouth burned of by asakujaku. Take your pick.
With knowledge izanagi isn't even a threat. Not that he'll get a chance to use it anyways.

Hmm they potentially could take it before Danzo gets the cast off.

But! Hiruzen can defend, Hiruzen isn't going to sit there just to get stabbed + if need be Danzo could summon Baku to buy time. So I doubt Danzo is getting blitzed, it'd be a shitty debate anyhow if it was just being argued whether or not Danzo gets the cast off O_O.

Should add that the fact that Gai wouldn't use Hirudora and Asakujaku in the first 5 seconds, he's never done it 670 chapters in the story, he wouldn't do it now. Those two techniques would severely limit Gai because they strain the body.

So let's continue as if Danzo got the cast off...

I already stated 6 gated Gai defeats Baku, so i'm not sure what you're trying to say with the Asakujaku point.

I would agree that they could debunk Izanagi with ease if Sasuke could, but there's one issue with Kakashi and Gai not having intel.

When Danzo "dies" they'll focus their attention to Hiruzen, and then one of them will get surprise attack Curse marked/Killed by Danzo because they thought he was dead.

Sasuke only survived the Izanagi surprise attack because he had Susano'o activated, Danzo was still capable of attacking Susano'o from behind before Sasuke reacted, even after alerting Sasuke by saying "this will be a battle of the eyes".

 

[DMT]

Hiruzen would give danzo enough time to use izanagi ..

It's only takes 1-2 minutes

 

[LuckyMan]

His entire argument is based around Gai blitzing before he takes his arm thing off... Like seriously..... that goes to show he has no more legs to stand on so he is sticking to that one point which is foolish to even think would occur.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Hmm they potentially could take it before Danzo gets the cast off.

But! Hiruzen can defend, Hiruzen isn't going to sit there just to get stabbed + if need be Danzo could summon Baku to buy time. So I doubt Danzo is getting blitzed, it'd be a shitty debate anyhow if it was just being argued whether or not Danzo gets the cast off O_O.

Should add that the fact that Gai wouldn't use Hirudora and Asakujaku in the first 5 seconds, he's never done it 670 chapters in the story, he wouldn't do it now. Those two techniques would severely limit Gai because they strain the body.

So let's continue as if Danzo got the cast off...

I already stated 6 gated Gai defeats Baku, so i'm not sure what you're trying to say with the Asakujaku point.

I would agree that they could debunk Izanagi with ease if Sasuke could, but there's one issue with Kakashi and Gai not having intel.

When Danzo "dies" they'll focus their attention to Hiruzen, and then one of them will get surprise attack Curse marked/Killed by Danzo because they thought he was dead.

Sasuke only survived the Izanagi surprise attack because he had Susano'o activated, Danzo was still capable of attacking Susano'o from behind before Sasuke reacted, even after alerting Sasuke by saying "this will be a battle of the eyes".

By stats, and feats hiruzen is slower, and weaker than kakashi. Coupled with the sharingan just widening the gap between their skills and the fact that the databook is old(in kakashi's case) and doesn't reflect his war arc abilities or feats the old guy is getting blitzed.

Guy started his fight with obito, the v2 jins, kisame and madara above the 5th gate. So saying things like(he won't do xyz despite intent being too kill and the fact that he's already done it on multiple occasions is moot)
So we agree baku is a nonfactor.

Intel is full. U should reread the op. Kakashi debunks izanagi easily. They'll pressure danzo accordingly.(if he gets his cast off.)

So it's either hiruzen tries to protect danzo and gets oneshotted by killing intent kakashi or dazno doesn't find the time to get the seal off. In the highly improbable case that he gets it off and hiruzen is still living hiruzen is still highly liable to get crapped on by guy or kakashi.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Guy isn't blitzing Danzo, without him doing nothing. He can easily create debris with Futon and catch him off guard with Sharingan Genjutsu. It takes less then 10 secs to remove the gauntlet.

It took an entire chapter for danzo to get the gauntlet off. Both his lackeys engaged in a full fight with obito and both lost before he took it off completely. Guy fall for sharingan genjutsu? Lol. Both these old farts are getting blitzed.

 

[Inert Brian]

By stats, and feats hiruzen is slower, and weaker than kakashi. Coupled with the sharingan just widening the gap between their skills and the fact that the databook is old(in kakashi's case) and doesn't reflect his war arc abilities or feats the old guy is getting blitzed.

Guy started his fight with obito, the v2 jins, kisame and madara above the 5th gate. So saying things like(he won't do xyz despite intent being too kill and the fact that he's already done it on multiple occasions is moot)
So we agree baku is a nonfactor.

Intel is full. U should reread the op. Kakashi debunks izanagi easily. They'll pressure danzo accordingly.(if he gets his cast off.)

So it's either hiruzen tries to protect danzo and gets oneshotted by killing intent kakashi or dazno doesn't find the time to get the seal off. In the highly improbable case that he gets it off and hiruzen is still living hiruzen is still highly liable to get crapped on by guy or kakashi.

I'm not too keen personally on using the Databooks, I generally only use them for featless characters. It's common sense Kakashi is a superior taijutsu fighter though.

You were right he did start with gates against Obito, Madara, and V2 Jins. But let's think about it...

Against Obito: He was going for a Gate snipe, they know Obito is a tough bastard to hit, they were riding on that surprise attack.

Against V2 Jins: They're jinchuurikis, pretty dangerous he was definitely justified in that scenario.

Against Madara: He was already above god level, and likely saw Minato and Kakashi get fodderized within seconds.

Against Kisame: Kisame was getting away and they desperately had to stop him before Tobi found out where the Jins were.

He didn't gate snipe against Itachi/Kisame, Itachi again (remember when he thought Jiraiya was Itachi and went for that dynamic entry lulz), and the 33% Kisame clone (even after his students were trapped and drowning he didn't pull it out). Now let's remember that those were Akatsuki members, who already had an established ethos as S ranked criminals. So Gai knew what he was up against.

But at the same time, he used gates against Madara and the V2 Jins because he knew he had to because of their ethos. So it's a tough call since he didn't pull it out on Akatsuki members yet at the same time he was pulling it out on Jinchuurikis.

Then again, these are 2 old dudes, and i'm positive Gai/Kakashi were aware Hiruzen was past his prime. Gai even notes they have to go help him fight Orochimaru (i'll find scan if need be), Danzo is a tough call because Kakashi was shocked MS Sasuke killed him, but was he shocked because of Sasuke's strength, or the fact that his student had gone so low?

Anyway, it's hard to say if he would've/wouldn't have pulled gates in the first 5 seconds. Could you really see Gai pulling out the gates when one old fart is taking off a cast and the other is summoning Enma? At least when he pulled out the gates at the start, he had the right scenarios.

I think we can agree Hiruzen can't do that much in this fight, and it's more on Danzo.