[VS] Current Zoro vs. Prime ace

[-Akuma-]

I'm with ya, I'd love nothing more than for people to acknowledge it only makes sense Ace had armament haki but people are gonna refuse because he never hit a Logia and he didn't stop damage that haki could have.

What imaginary damage could Ace had stopped with haki? Haki doesn't block everything and Ace EASILY gets the benifit of the doubt.

 

[chopstickchakra]

What imaginary damage could Ace had stopped with haki? Haki doesn't block everything and Ace EASILY gets the benifit of the doubt.

Talk to Riker, he always brings up Ace fighting Smoker and Ace fighting BB. You don't have to tell me Ace gets the benefit of the doubt in regards to Haki you can go back through a lot of these Ace discussions and see my stance but the OP said "The Ace who was ready to kill teach and his crew" that means manga Ace and manga Ace was never shown with it. Logical Ace has it, Manga Ace unfortunately doesn't in these discussions. If we gave Ace haki and a way to defend against Zoro's cuts then yeah Ace would win but the fact that Zoro could cut him and Ace wouldn't have haki to defend with in this scenario makes his victory less assured and even doubtful.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Talk to Riker, he always brings up Ace fighting Smoker and Ace fighting BB. You don't have to tell me Ace gets the benefit of the doubt in regards to Haki you can go back through a lot of these Ace discussions and see my stance but the OP said "The Ace who was ready to kill teach and his crew" that means manga Ace and manga Ace was never shown with it. Logical Ace has it, Manga Ace unfortunately doesn't in these discussions. If we gave Ace haki and a way to defend against Zoro's cuts then yeah Ace would win but the fact that Zoro could cut him and Ace wouldn't have haki to defend with in this scenario makes his victory less assured and even doubtful.

I like how snide you are towards those who apply actual manga feats, rather than imaginary ones. It's actually illogical to say Ace has it. The word you're looking for is Reasonably, Ace has it.

 

[chopstickchakra]

I like how snide you are towards those who apply actual manga feats, rather than imaginary ones. It's actually illogical to say Ace has it. The word you're looking for is Reasonably, Ace has it.

Calm down guy, every time someone mentions your name it's not snide, I know your used to drawing that reaction out of people so it's understandable why you'd expect it so often. I said ask Riker because you reference those instances so much against me in other debates I know you're more familiar with them to explain it to him. He asked what imaginary damage, and I don't remember the fight with Smoker so clearly and didn't have time to go re-read the chapters looking for it.

And for the record, you're using instances shown in the manga as a "reason" Ace doesn't have it, but following the manga's presented logic(Shichibukai should have it as a force comparable to VA's and he was asked to be a Shichibukai, was being groomed by WSM to be PK, was superior to Luffy in every showing and was passed the age Luffy was when he learned, He fought against Jinbe for 5 days how would someone made of fire manage that exactly if they could only dodge yet we saw he had damage?) Ace should have it. So logically, based on the precedents in the manga, Ace should have had a showing of Arm. Haki. It's reasonable to say he didn't because there's no case demonstrating it. But I'm not gonna argue with you over semantics and which words you choose to use.

 

[Venomous Cobra]

Actually I'd go with any m3 against ace. I might be bit unfair but feats wise ace never seemed that impressive to me. He matched aan admiral attack but that was the only real impressive feat he had imo (5 days endurance aside). Ace is imo kuma level.

 

[-Akuma-]

Talk to Riker, he always brings up Ace fighting Smoker and Ace fighting BB. You don't have to tell me Ace gets the benefit of the doubt in regards to Haki you can go back through a lot of these Ace discussions and see my stance but the OP said "The Ace who was ready to kill teach and his crew" that means manga Ace and manga Ace was never shown with it. Logical Ace has it, Manga Ace unfortunately doesn't in these discussions. If we gave Ace haki and a way to defend against Zoro's cuts then yeah Ace would win but the fact that Zoro could cut him and Ace wouldn't have haki to defend with in this scenario makes his victory less assured and even doubtful.

I've already talked to Riker about this. There's nothing really pointing towards Ace not having haki in that fight, only questionable part about that is his fight with Smoker.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I've already talked to Riker about this. There's nothing really pointing towards Ace not having haki in that fight, only questionable part about that is his fight with Smoker.

>in fight with Logia
>knows he's a Logia
>attacks him with Haki-less attack
>"This kind of attack shouldn't work."

Yeah totally, Ace just likes dicking around with people he wants to kill because he's definitely been shown to be a "toy with mortal enemy" type.

 

[ToshiZO]

>in fight with Logia
>knows he's a Logia
>attacks him with Haki-less attack
>"This kind of attack shouldn't work."

Yeah totally, Ace just likes dicking around with people he wants to kill because he's definitely been shown to be a "toy with mortal enemy" type.

What? How would you know it was hakiless or not? Were his flames supposed to turn black?

 

[Punk Hazard]

What? How would you know it was hakiless or not? Were his flames supposed to turn black?

If the flames were imbued with Haki, he wouldn't have called it the kind of attack that shouldn't hurt a Logia...

 

[ToshiZO]

If the flames were imbued with Haki, he wouldn't have called it the kind of attack that shouldn't hurt a Logia...

No he was only talking about his DF superiority over Fire. Assuming both use haki it wouldn't matter either way.

 

[Punk Hazard]

No he was only talking about his DF superiority over Fire. Assuming both use haki it wouldn't matter either way.

What the fresh **** are you talking about

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[ToshiZO]

What the fresh **** are you talking about

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Thought you were referring to Akainu vs Ace.

Whats wrong with that btw? He used a ranged fire attack on an enemy he was curious with. Blackbeard was never a logia before, Ace used a regular attack and it worked.

No reason for him to resort to even using armament when Blackbeard doesn't require it. We know haki is not unlimited anyway, if you don't absolutely need it, focus on something else. That's why I thought you were referring to an actual Logia like Akainu.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Thought you were referring to Akainu vs Ace.

Whats wrong with that btw? He used a ranged fire attack on an enemy he was curious with. Blackbeard was never a logia before, Ace used a regular attack and it worked.

No reason for him to resort to even using armament when Blackbeard doesn't require it. We know haki is not unlimited anyway, if you don't absolutely need it, focus on something else. That's why I thought you were referring to an actual Logia like Akainu.

The bodies of Logias don't always automatically transform when they're about to be attacked, as seen when Monet's heart didn't turn to snow when Caesar stabbed it. It makes no sense for Ace to, at that moment, attack a Logia without Haki if he was a user of it.

 

[ToshiZO]

The bodies of Logias don't always automatically transform when they're about to be attacked, as seen when Monet's heart didn't turn to snow when Caesar stabbed it. It makes no sense for Ace to, at that moment, attack a Logia without Haki if he was a user of it.

Ace specifically used that attack for that reason alone. Ace had hit him earlier with a flame fist and BB was rolling around in pain so he sent another attack at him without haki, turns out BB got hit again, allowing Ace to conclude he can't phase through attacks. No issue here.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Ace specifically used that attack for that reason alone.

Says who?

Ace had hit him earlier with a flame fist and BB was rolling around in pain so he sent another attack at him without haki, turns out BB got hit again, allowing Ace to conclude he can't phase through attacks. No issue here.

Except BB rolling around on the ground doesn't say "Teach can't phase through attacks," it says "Teach hasn't achieved reflexive transformation." There's no reason that would say to Ace "This Logia can't phase through attacks."

 

[ToshiZO]

Says who?



Except BB rolling around on the ground doesn't say "Teach can't phase through attacks," it says "Teach hasn't achieved reflexive transformation." There's no reason that would say to Ace "This Logia can't phase through attacks."

You cannot prove anything with that because that is not unusual assuming Ace even had Haki. His actions of testing out his attacks on Teach are not exclusive to someone without haki.

That's all she wrote.

 

[Punk Hazard]

You cannot prove anything with that because that is not unusual assuming Ace even had Haki. His actions of testing out his attacks on Teach are not exclusive to someone without haki.

That's all she wrote.

Except "Ace was testing Teach's fruit" isn't a logical assumption. Teach being hit by an attack doesn't tell Ace what he would need to be told in order for him to test out a Haki-less attack.

 

[ToshiZO]

Except "Ace was testing Teach's fruit" isn't a logical assumption. Teach being hit by an attack doesn't tell Ace what he would need to be told in order for him to test out a Haki-less attack.

Um you're directly arguing with what Ace said. According to Ace it did tell him exactly that lmfao. This is not me saying it, this is Ace saying it himself.

End of, no need to comment further on this past that.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Um you're directly arguing with what Ace said.

Circle the panel where Ace says he was testing Teach's power, as opposed to attacking Teach because he wants to kill him, and then making a comment about something he didn't expect or imagined happening.

 

[ToshiZO]

Stop making shit up. Ace was not surprised one bit by Teach getting hit by that attack. The intentions were clear, Ace heard Teach had a logia fruit. Two attacks now and Teach couldn't do anything about them, which led to him saying what he said.

Ace attempting to kill Teach lmfao? Does that look like an attack that could kill Teach? Stop it.