ARGUS
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Words of wisdom right here
[VS] Current Sasuke VS Rinnigan Madara
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Unorthodox
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this thread still going sasuke > any Madara
Bronze
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Instant is instant, and nothing gets beyond that. So, Sasuke is not faster than Minato or Tobirama, since they use instant teleportations. Arrows and Magatamas all get tanked. Nothing they do will damage Madara. Sasuke can't hope to win a battle like this.
Sadly, it does. Sasuke's reflexes were so bad that he was teleported by Kaguya's portal. Naruto's reflexes are so good that he avoided them, and got overwhelmed by Limbo's speed. [
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] [
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] So Sasuke will be one-shotted as canonically: [
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].Hagoromo's entity is his Chakra, idiot. Hagoromo noted that Madara merged Indra's and Ashura's Chakra in one being that lead to his Chakra. [
Aside from your disgusting wank, Madara rofl stomps any form of Sasuke.
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] Sasuke only has Indra's Chakra as part of the moon power. Madara has both, Indra and Ashura = Hagoromo. All of that > Indra's, Sasuke's Susanoo manifestation.Aside from your disgusting wank, Madara rofl stomps any form of Sasuke.
lucario14
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The hell am I reading? This is non-juubi jin madara right? There is nothing madara could do to hurt sasuke. Limbo? shredded up. CT? Sasuke could play fruit ninja with the meteors. Chakra rods? Swatted aside. PS? Sosp chakra + Indra's chakra >> Hashi's chakra + Indra's chakra therefore sasuke rips him a new one.
Ultimateone
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your first misunderstanding is that because madara didn't cut anything as big as the CT that sasuke's PS cut means that it can't. on the flip side, sasuke's PS has no defensive feats what so ever. look it up, there are none. so am i to take away from that, that his PS can't tank anything? no, i wouldn't do that as i have no data either way. point being, just because madara didn't have anything as big to cut doesn't mean he could do the same. remember, madara casually cut through mountains that were quite a distance away just by unsheathing his sword. had he really swung his blades it would have been an even greater feat. the biju dama that that version of naruto's kyuubi mode did is not a good parameter to gauge power as it would be considered fodder by madara standards or a biju dama by BM naruto standards. also, there is no evidence in the manga that susano in the same stage are greater than one another. if a susano is in the ribcage stage, they are the same durability and so on. so a PS would be the same going by that logic. the only difference being their uniqueness like i already stated on previous post.
as for when sasuke cut juubi madara in half, look at the circumstances. madara was fleeing naruto and sasuke, so he could take kakashi's eye. madara was caught off gaurd because he had his back turned and had just stolen and implanted an eye. had it not been for that, most likely the outcome would have been different. it's all about circumstance. by that same notion FTG was used against him and he could react to it, and ftg is instance.
sasuke's wasn't effecting the limbo. there whole point was to catch the real adara, but he switched with a limbo. the reason the limbo was caught was because naruto is able to harm them and he used a sealing tech. this is the reason naruto sent sasuke after madara instead of going himself as he was needed to stop it in it's tracks. think about it. why would he send sasuke to go save kakashi, when he could have just done it himself? notice sasuke never actually fought any limbo's. he thre the sword at it that one time, but thats it.
mokuton has shown to be more than a match for susano, and madara can use it at nearly hashi's level. i'm sorry, madara beats sasuke.
King Of Pop
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no, madaras slash feats are not up tp that level as it failed to leave any noticable impact when he battled edo hashirama, if his ps slash was on that level then we would have seen the marks on the crater. each of the ct ssasuke cut left a crater similar to the one hashirama and madara battled in so you can imagine what each slash of sasuke can do. madara is not on that level.
bold doesnt make much sense, soosano is renowed more for its defense rather than offense. sasuke referred to his as the perfect defense and various tanking feats from soosano in the manga suggests that. so you cant take away its defensive feat considering thats what soosano is mostly about. sasuke has the perfect version so whateva inferior version tanked, logic dictates that his version would tank even much better because its stronger.
we have seen his ps in action several times and its cuts were shown to be mountain level at best. you are just assuming and using speculation. it doesnt hold water.
of course its not up to par with standarad level bijju dama these days, it doesnt change the fact that its a destructive force and it was made by 6 tails. bijuu dama from 4 tails left some impact in the bridge battle with orochimaru, this one should be stronger but it couldnt burst through ct. what it shows is that ct is not some ordinary rock. the one made by jj madara is no joke at all, look at scans properly.
urrm wat? by this logic Ems sasukes ps is equal to Ems madaras ps and theres no difference btw them and am sure if that is brought up you would be among those to widely disagree. its both ps doesnt mean their offense is the same, sasuke having half of the sages power is stronger than this madara so it applies to their ps as well. not to mention feat wise sasuke is ahead.
not just when he cut him in half, he also had no clue and failed to react
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and
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. once this madara is in range sasukes does what he did in the 2nd scan,except this time madara is killed as he doesnt have his juubi and regenration on that level to tank it. and your point is even wrong, madara was not caught off guard. he saw sasuke coming at him and said he is quite fast. he had already taken kakashis eye and implanted it
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the eye was already in his socket before sasuke even showed up and the rest of your post is just speculation. "had it not been for that most likely the outcome would have been different". dunno why people like making excuses for madara and downplaying what sasuke did, very odd. he couldnt react to sasukes s/t jutsu so hes not doing so here. bold is flawed, ftg and sasukes jutsu dont operate the same way because sasuke has the ability to teleport the opponent to him and strike, he does that and its gg madara.
so you didnt look at the scan?? his chidori was shown to be clearly paralysing the limbo, heck it wrapped around it, look at the scan again. sasuke stated only attacks from rikudous chakra can affect it, he did the same and applied it to his chidori and as a result it connected to the clone. heres the scan again and this time look at it
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. naruto asked sasuke to go after the real madara because he was busy sealing the clone with his jiton rasengan, he had a sealing jutsu not sasuke so he took care of the clone. just because naruto battles the clone doesnt mean sasuke cant bad logic besides all this is irrelevant why? limbo cant do shit to sasuke in ps, they are irrelevant near it.more than a match for madaras soosano, not sasuke. dont equate the two of them, enton blade mixed with ps slashes destroy any mokuton.
madara gets raped low dif, non jin madara has nothing on sasuke,its not much of a fight, more like a stomping from one to another.
Ultimateone
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i guess you forgot that the fight between madara and hashi changed the landscape. there is not gonna be any clear markings for a sword mark when the whole thing is changed overall. i mean, it's not like madara was aiming at the ground when he was fighting. by that same notion, sasuke didn't leave anycraters behind from his sword slashed. i guess his aren't that strong either? because saying the chibaku tensie left a crater is not the same as that is madara's tech that did it. also, you completely misunderstood what i meant by the defensive feats part. my point is, sasuke's PS has actually tanked nothing. i think we both can agree on this, if not go back and read the manga. i know that susano has great defensive capabilities, but as far as his goes we don't know what it can tank or not. which is why i compared it to madara's PS slashing. we have seen it slash things, and everything it slashed gets cut. the only thing is we havent seen it slash anything as big as the CT that madara himself used. but it's not to say that he couldn't ,just he never got the chance. just as sasuke's PS never got the chance to tank anything. do you understand now?
you forget that when kyuubi naruto fired that biju dama, the chibaku tesie was still forming. which means that, it was pilling rocks on top of it. not to mention the biju dama was quite small. also point out, that chibaku tensie was gigantic, spanning a very large mountain range. by comparison, the small crater that 4 tail naruto made means nothing. not a good argument.
i would say a PS is a PS, whith each having something thats unique about them. but it was never even said that rikudo's power did something to his PS. people assumed it did because the only time we saw him use it was when he fused his susano with BSM naruto. as far as we know, as we have no evidence either way, he could only use it when fused with naruto's bijuu avatar. but thats a different argument all together, and i don't wanna get into it. so for sure we can say that thanks to the sages power, while in PS, he's not affected by infinite tsukiyomi. thats literally the only upgrade that we have of it for sure, maybe the wings because the PS that was on kurama had no wings. which could mean that it wasn't a stabilized version, meaning it was in fact weaker than madara's version. remember his only had 2 arms until, what would have been the other set of arms became wings instead.
as far as madara not reacting to sasuke's jutsu, couple things. in the first scan, madara was flying at top speed toward sasuke then sasuke switched with his sword, making madara impale himself. which only worked because the speed madara was flying toward him and switching at the last second. sure, i'll admit it surprised madara, but than again, e was flying at top speed giving himself little time to react. as for the second scan. madara was being attacked from 2 sides. if he could react and dodged to one side, he would have got hit by the other attack. that was more based on good teamwork n that situation, moreso than being just to fast. as i have said, we have seen him react to instant before. when sasuke cut madara in half, madara did not know he was behind him. he had just plopped that eye in, then the next panel he is in, sasuke grabs him. that was right after he put the eye in. so he did not see sasuke coming. i don't make excuses for madara, i point out things thats in the manga.
no his chidori was not shown to effect the limbo. remember madara had switched places with his limbo. before he had done that he was being effected by both the techs.when he switched he was in that exact same position the limbo is in. by that time it was already being sealed by naruto's jutsu and thus couldn't move. as i have said, had sasuke been able to effect the limbo, naruto would have went after the real madara himself to save kakashi and not sent sasuke to do so. also, sasuke specifically told naruto to attack the shadow. why would he have naruto attack the shadow which he can't even see? sasuke would have been the better choice to do so, as he has no problem seeing it. but instead he chose to attack the real madara. it's clear to me why this decision was made, how bout you?
mokuton can be easily reconstructed after they are destroyed. madara's ps slashes could deal with mokuton and still got destroyed. same thing can happen to sasuke's PS. they have the same defensive capabilities until proven otherwise.
King Of Pop
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the point of me mentioning the ct crater was to show you how big they are and sasuke tearing through them with their remains crashlanding on several mountain tops should tell you how insignant mountains near the full size ct rock, sasuke cutting through them has shown better dc than whteva madara has been shown to do so his is better than feats, its not so hard to undertsand. you have no proof that madara can do the same when he couldnt tear down hashiramas mokujin or his buddha. you might say its not the same thing as those were constructs which can defend themselves unlike the meteors however if madaras cutting power was the same as sasuke then each of its slash should have had a considerable impact on it or even hashis buddha(outside kurama)considering the dc level of sasukes slashes. but that wasnt shown to be the case. fact of the matter is sasukes dc shown far exceeds what madara did and if you going to say no then you have to provide sufficient evidence that his slash can be on that level, slashing through mountains is not one of them.
like i said before you are speculating.
what exatcly are you saying sasukes ps cant tank? because its the strongest soosano shown thus far so whateva inferior versions did, it would be better, the stronger the soosano the stronger the defense.
no. the chibaku tensei had already gathered enough momentum to the point of were it completely enclosed the kyuubi so it tried to escape by firing that bijju dama but it couldnt burst its way through. 6 tails should have more in it than 4 tails even if little.
no ps is not ps. the one which is made by the shinobi with the stronger chakra would be stronger than the inferior one because soosano is a manifestation of their chakra. sasuke has hagoromo yin chakra as well as indra so his obv would be stronger the what madara showed and feat wise that is the case, he has all of hagoromos yin energy, in order words his soosano is being inflenced by hagoromos powers. which is obv by the appearance
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, notice how it has 3 circle shaped holes on its face, sasukes ps
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, as it has 3 shaped circled holes. on the other edo/ems madara differs
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it doesnt have those circled shapes or horns. sasuke being influenced by hagoromos powers, his ps would logically be stronger than the one ems madara showed and from the looks of feats thats the case. however rinnegan madaras ps would be stronger than his ems self but sasuke still has the superior chakra and it applies to his ps as well. and you wrong on that, sasuke in Ems can use ps, naruto had nothing to do with, him not using it before is not sufficient evidence to say he cant do it alone, that has nothing to do with naruto. madaras doesnt have wings and sasukes ps on kurama avatar was definitely a stabilized one what are you talking about???
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only a stabilized ps has been shown to have beaks and wrapping around kurama is only achievable by a stabilized ps, thats what manga has shwon us. theres literally no difference between ems madaras ps and ems sasuke by looks so therefore if were to apply your logic them Ems sasukes ps is equal to Ems madaras ps because ps is ps right? you clearly disagree which is why you tried to find something to say ems sasukes ps was weaker, but sorry you cant say something and then and try and twist the same logic around when its not favouring you. rikoudou sasukes ps is superior, period.
that still doesnt change what happened, its part of the mechanics of his jutsu which he can use to take advantage of certain situations. in order words it can catch someone off guard, sasuke can also use it to catch this madara off guard i dont see whats the difference. once sasuke switched with the sword madara should have sensed danger due to him having juubi sensing but he was caught unawares. your second point does not make sense, are you even reading what you are writing or are you just trying to falsely interpreting the manga your way. he was hit from both ends because sasuke moved him in betweeen their attacks, they did not both attack him, it was sasuke who teleported him there and just because both attacks are coming from different directions does not mean he couldnt have stepped out of their way to counter it? if he ould react he would have moved out of their way and then both will have hit themselves but it was impossible as he was being teleported which shows the deadliness of sasukes jutsu,it leaves practically zero chance of reacting physically once he moves you it has nothing to do with any teamwork. if having the juubi and its reflex and speed boost couldnt help madara dodge that situation how da hell can this non jin form of him do better? its not possible. all you are doing is making excuses and trying to state why certain events occured when manga didnt indicate so in order words you are using fanfic, manga showed madara being caught unawares and unable to react so he cant react simple. he reacted to attacks from slower opponents, sasuke is physically faster than either minato or tobirama and his s/t jutsu operates differently than their own.
last part is fail, madara did know sasuke was there, are you sure you are even reading this manga clearly? smh
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you can clearly see him comment on sasuke and hes a freaking sensor so he was very much aware of sasukes presence. omg, he wasnt popping in any eye in, you didnt look at that scan i showed lemme guess. he already implanted the
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so he wasnt doing that just before sasuke showed up, he had already done it and he saw sasuke lol i suggets you reread those panels clearly rather than making stuff up and stating something that didnt happen.omg are you serious?? he and naruto hit the real madara but when he switched with his clone their attack transferred to it, look at the scan properly, sasukes chidori is clearly wrapped up around it which shows its indeed making contact, dont just talk out of your ass, look at the scan. it was being sealed by narutos clone does not mean sasukes chidori was not affecting it, if it didnt affect it, kishi wouldnt have curled the chidori around the clone, it is clearly
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. if you still deny this then you are denying the manga. like i said narutos had the sealing jutsu to seal it off and thats why he told sasuke he would deal with it while sasuke went for the real one. he told naruto to attack it as its part of his strategy, naruto cannot see but he can sense them clearly and he has no problems locating them.and sasuke would just stand there while madara casually reconstructs a destroyed mokuton? no because he would it follow it up with another slash which would kill madara. sasukes ps>>>madaras ps so no they are not the same.
Ultimateone
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here's the thing that you are forgetting, madara has both indra and ashura's DNA/chakra in him. which means that he technically has the power of the sage, before he got the juubi of corse. which is why he was able to unlock the rennigan in the first place. although sasuke may have gotten his power directly from the sage directly, it was only the yin/eye half. so to say that sasuke's susano is stronger because he got a powerup from the sage, and madara didn't, wouldn't be accurate. yes we know that sasuke was able to cut through chibaku tensie, but there is no evidence against madara doing the same. the only thing is he never had anything that big to cut, the biggest being shinshushinju. while in reality hashirama was able to overwhelm madara's susano, madara's PS didn't actually have a hard time cutting through the Buddha. as i have said we have no clear difference between defensive capabilities as sasuke's PS has yet to have an actual defensive feat. so to say one is greater than the other is clear bias, as there is no evidence to support the claim. now the only true difference we have actually seen is the mobility. as instead of 4 arms, sasuke's has 2 arms and 2 wings. while madara has 4 arms and no wings. madara's also seems to be bigger, but that could just be the way they were drawn in the panels.
also, in the panel where sasuke comes up behind madara, that happened literally right after madara had plopped in kakashi's eye. sasuke grabbed him, then he thought about how fast sasuke was. the only reasn there was no reaction from madara is because he was clearly focusing on another task, which was getting that eye and implanting it. as i have said before he ha reacted to instantaneous movement of multiple occasions; twice against tobirama in the same scuffle, and once against minato, whose arm he chopped off, who also has some of the best reflexes in the entire manga. so, put sasuke using his jutsu in a different scenario against madara, and he could end up just like those other two.
about the limbo clone, it was never said that the technique could not actually touch the limbo clone, only that it wouldn't be able to hurt them. the jutsu were already effecting madara before he switched with the limbo clone, and thus the chidori was still wrapping around the limbo after madara had switched with it. think about this though, just a few pages earlier naruto had a hard time being able to identify the limbo's. what possible sense would sasuke tell naruto to attack something that he cannot clearly see, when he himself has no problem seeing it? the only logical reason is because naruto is actually able to hurt them, while sasuke can't.
wael reda
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i already explained how madara will counter sasuke's s/t
and i found a way for madara to destroy sasike's ps into pieces
direct hit from the shinra tensi which destroyed whole konoha Ms down will destroy sasuke's ps
i mean sasuke's ps was destroyed by chakra arm from kaguya ,i really doubt that chakra arm can cause 1/100 of the destruction made by shinra tensi
and i found a way for madara to destroy sasike's ps into pieces
direct hit from the shinra tensi which destroyed whole konoha Ms down will destroy sasuke's ps
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XY iNVeRSe
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Shinra tensei knocks sasuke's PS onto the floor, madara then proceeds to absorb it via wood dragon. Sasuke uses his teleport tech to vanish then uses his teleport tech for an attack against madara which is countered via limbo, this happens until sasuke needs a cool down. Then madara which continues to overpower sasuke with path techs, large scale mokuton techs, and Susanoo techs. Including 25 Susanoo clones.
KidGamer65
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When Madara has shown a Shinra Tensei on that level you can talk.
Kurama raped Mokuryu. Sasuke's PS would do worse to it.
Sasuke doesn't use his teleportation. He uses Susanoo and kills Madara with very low difficulty. Limbo isn't doing anything to a Susanoo enhanced with Rikudo's Chakra, nor will it react to a teleportation blitz from Sasuke, so Chidori Katana would bisect it anyway. All his Six Path's Jutsu are fodder to Sasuke, Mokuton is fodder to Susanoo, and his Susanoo is fodder to Sasuke's Susanoo. The Gokage destroyed his Susanoo clones. Sasuke does worse. PS>25 V3 Susanoo clones.
In fact, Susanoo isn't needed to kill Pre Jin Madara. He simply blitzes the main body with teleportation and bisects him and calls it a day.
KidGamer65
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Man, what is it with you people today? Its like you CHOOSE NOT TO READ BEFORE REPLYING. I said when Madara uses a Shinra Tensei on a scale large enough to deal any serious damage to Sasuke's Susanoo or knock it around, then we can talk. Nagato's feats aren't cutting it either.
Never once said that he can't use it.
wael reda
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give me scan from the ****ing manga shows that sasuke ps is above madara ps
in the manga they are both ps ,and if kishi wanted to show the difference he would have made madara commented and said his ps are above mine or something like that
i cant stand sasuke wankers who think sasuke ps beats madara's low diff
madara with ps,25 legged susano,buddaha,gedo mazu,all that while hashirama gates and some asteriods falls on sasuke ps surly beats sasuke ps
direct hit from the shinra tensi which destroyed whole konoha alone can destroy sasuke ps into pieces
wael reda
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good that you admit that madara can use shinra tensi
direct hit from the shinra tensi which destroyed whole konoha Ms down will destroy sasuke's ps
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wael reda
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again,sasuke’s s/t jutsu isnt problem to madara
1.with intel: madara will just use his susano the whole time so this jutsu will be useless
2.with no intel ,if madara isnt using susano and sasuke swaped with sword and stabbed madara ,he will just get the sword out from his body ,and regenerate by hashirama healing ,then he will get aware and will use susano.
if sasuke cut him in half like he did with jiubi madara,madara will connect his halfs by susano hand or mouktun then he will heal like tusonade did ,then he will get aware and use susano
so with or without intel,sasuke’s s/t is countered by sm 2 rinningan madara
1.with intel: madara will just use his susano the whole time so this jutsu will be useless
2.with no intel ,if madara isnt using susano and sasuke swaped with sword and stabbed madara ,he will just get the sword out from his body ,and regenerate by hashirama healing ,then he will get aware and will use susano.
if sasuke cut him in half like he did with jiubi madara,madara will connect his halfs by susano hand or mouktun then he will heal like tusonade did ,then he will get aware and use susano
so with or without intel,sasuke’s s/t is countered by sm 2 rinningan madara
KidGamer65
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Sasuke cut CT meteors that
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Madara cut two Mountains. An idiot can tell the difference. Sasuke's PS shits on Madara's.Irrelevant.
Irrelevant. When you can get proof that such a statement is needed then we can talk.
I can't stand retards like you who cry and whine about someone wanking when the "wanker" has an argument. You don't. Your only argument is "They are both PS" lmao, gtfo.
Lol. Not only does Madara not have the chakra feats to do all of that at the same time, he doesn't have Hashirama's Gates and Sasuke already shat on a stronger Madara's Meteors. Don't mention it here.
PS>25 Legged Susanoo. Not one of these Susanoo can take Mountain cutting slashes, and Sasuke's Susanoo is far above that.
Sasuke's PS>Shinsuusenju. It cut Meteors that were larger than the Shinju's trunk. The Shinju's trunk is larger than the whole area Shinsuusenju was fighting in. And CT meteors are more durable than Mountains of the same size as Nagato's incomplete CT tanked KN6's Bijuu Dama.
Gedo Mazo is even weaker than Madara's PS let alone Sasuke's. At best it busts Mountains, and it doesn't take anything remotely close to the level of power Sasuke can output with Susanoo.
That shit wouldn't even scratch it. Its around the level of a normal Bijuu Dama, and Bijuu Dama was tanked by PS.
KidGamer65
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1. Ok.
2. Bold is nothing but fanfiction. Tsunade needed Katsuyu, Suigetsu and Karin to reattach her body. Though only Katsuyu at the minimum was most likely needed. Madara isn't pulling that off by himself.
Lol. You don't know what destroyed Sasuke's PS. No chakra arm was shown so where did this chakra arm nonsense come from? Either way, Kaguya is dozens of tiers above Nagato. CST is only a Mountain buster. Not doing shit to PS.
wael reda
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sasuke cuts this mountains with several direct hits from his ps while madara cut 5 mountains huge distance away by just waving his sword once ,who idiots compare this to this while this was several diract hits and this was one shoke wave(not direct hit)?
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actually whe havnt see what a direct hit from madara can do
you cant say this is madara's ps limits just because he hadnt the chance
no madara actually have the chakra to do that
his original chakra can perform ps and asteriods ,with hashirama cells and sm he can use buddaha,hashirama's gates and mouktun clones with legged susano ,and the gedo mazu is just summoning
yes madara can use hashirama gates since he has his sm and his cells
yes sasuke ps can counter 25 legged susano,mazu and the asteroids individually but dealing with all that plus ps and budahha at the same time isnt possible
i cant compare it with biju doma ,normal biju doma cant destroy whole konoha
but i am sure this shinra tensi is more powerful than kaguya chakra arm which destroyed sasuke's ps
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