current kakashi is the strongest(read first)

[Lost Woods Denizen]

Ok, I have read what you wrote, and will once again give my two cents.
Obito not noting Kakashi warping the clone is of very little consequence to this debate. Obito was focused on the clone in front of him with a rasengan in its hand, and assumed that they were using the same tactic. He was fighting four enemies. He also chose to launch the stake from his eye instead of intercepting and teleporting the clone through physical contact. And I will reiterate, Obito not taking into consideration a tactic that Naruto and Kakashi employed does NOT offer any evidence towards the power of Kakashi's kamui. It was a tactical error.

I explained the susanoo arrows already. It is impossible for the arrows to move in less that a second if Kakashi was able to actually see it coming at him. The arrows are fast, but they are not so fast as to be impossible to see. Danzo saw the arrow coming and had enough time to grow a tree out of his arm to veer its course. Without using a sharingan. The mechanics of the kamui are as follows: first, you must perceive what is coming towards you, as how else can you react to something that you do not know is there. You perceive the attack and you trap it within a barrier, and a space-time barrier if you will. There has been no time in the manga where Kakashi was shown teleporting things coming at him from various angles. The things that he teleported were either stationary, or moving at a speed that he could perceive and capture within the jutsu.

You seem to have misunderstood what I meant by saying that it costs chakra to use kamui multiple times, so I will explain it simpler. Let's say that Kakashi uses the kamui once to warp himself to the next dimension. That one warp costs chakra. Then he warps himself back, also costing chakra. Those are two separate warps. Two separate warps which drain his chakra considerably. How long do you think that he can keep that pace up? The answer is, not very long at all.

I missed a previously stated point. You said that kamui takes no time and is instant. I propose this issue. Let us say that Naruto is attacking Kakashi in his tailed beast mode. Naruto is running towards him, not in a straight line, but as a big beast of chakra, and tactically moving from side to side. At that size and speed, Kakashi has no means of stopping the attack. He may clip the shroud somewhere, may even manage to warp a tail, but as was shown in the manga, to warp something of that size, Kakashi needs to knead the appropriate amount of chakra. Take note of how long it took him to prepare to even try to warp the STATIONARY gedo mazo's HEAD. Guy and Naruto had numerous exchanges with Obito before Kakashi was even ready to unleash the technique. That is the flaw to kamui. And what if Naruto decided to instead launch the tailed beast ball barrage. How would Kakashi counter that? He would not be able to.

Your move.

 

[kakashi ms]

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obito says that kakashi warped the shadow clone instead of the rasengan meaning that he thought the rasengan vanished meaning that he was looking at the rasengan and not the clone.....proven wrong


I dont have to explain. If obito says that kakashi's high speed kamui has no effect on him, then that means kakashi wont be fast enough to hit obito with kamui meaning obito>kakashi



Exactly....so if we go by power of a jutsu then we have kakashi with his one 1-shot jutsu (kamui), and we have itachi who has FIVE 1-shot jutsus.. so like you said if we go by power of jutsu then Itachi>kakashi because he has more 1 shot jutsus

obito said that kakashi warped naruto faster than he got the stuck out
kakashi warped susano's arroew in no time
i mean that kakashi's kamui is instant
itachi has only 1 or 2 one shut jutsu
whatever itachi with 1 one shut jutsu or 5 one shut jutsu ,he can not beat kakashi who has 1 one shut jutsu as kakashi can counter all 5 one shut jutsu
but kakashi with 1 one shut jutsu can beat itachi who has 5 one shut jutsu as itachi can not counter kamui

 

[Lost Woods Denizen]

I understand why this thread has reached 9 pages. It is less you trying to debate why Kakashi's kamui is the strongest, and more of you dismissing what everyone else is saying and constantly repeating the same thing despite it being refuted. I will state one more time that susanoo's arrows are not instantaneous, nor is kamui instantaneous (for Kakashi.) Kakashi must activate the mangekyou, perceive the object which he wants to warp, knead the necessary amount of chakra for the target, and then use the jutsu. The reason he and Guy were in such dire straits when the five bijuu were going to attack them with the bijuudama is because he would not have been able to warp all at the same time.

Obito stated, and I quote, "I could just teleport his entire body, but.." and then he shoots out the stake. If Obito made contact with the clone, that would have been an instant KO. That would have been the better tactic, in all actuality, however he did not want to take the risk of being hit with the same move, hence he chose the stake. The entire plan hinged on Obito wagering the speed of his stake against Kakashi's speed at warping the rasengan. That is it.

I do not understand why you keep bringing Itachi into this equation. There are many other ninja/techniques that could defeat Kakashi. Is Kamui able to bypass the gravitational power of shinra tensei? Is kamui of any worth when fighting within the hidden mist technique? Is Kamui able to CONTINUOUSLY warp the tailed beast beam shot by the ten tails, seeing as that is a move continuously releasing high amounts of chakra?

 

[Nafee]

nah, when obito kamui-ed into the jinton and saved sauske he used three kamuis simultaneously. Obito's teleportation is faster than kakashi, tobirama and minato!

 

[Nafee]

I understand why this thread has reached 9 pages. It is less you trying to debate why Kakashi's kamui is the strongest, and more of you dismissing what everyone else is saying and constantly repeating the same thing despite it being refuted. I will state one more time that susanoo's arrows are not instantaneous, nor is kamui instantaneous (for Kakashi.) Kakashi must activate the mangekyou, perceive the object which he wants to warp, knead the necessary amount of chakra for the target, and then use the jutsu. The reason he and Guy were in such dire straits when the five bijuu were going to attack them with the bijuudama is because he would not have been able to warp all at the same time.

Obito stated, and I quote, "I could just teleport his entire body, but.." and then he shoots out the stake. If Obito made contact with the clone, that would have been an instant KO. That would have been the better tactic, in all actuality, however he did not want to take the risk of being hit with the same move, hence he chose the stake. The entire plan hinged on Obito wagering the speed of his stake against Kakashi's speed at warping the rasengan. That is it.

I do not understand why you keep bringing Itachi into this equation. There are many other ninja/techniques that could defeat Kakashi. Is Kamui able to bypass the gravitational power of shinra tensei? Is kamui of any worth when fighting within the hidden mist technique? Is Kamui able to CONTINUOUSLY warp the tailed beast beam shot by the ten tails, seeing as that is a move continuously releasing high amounts of chakra?

Hey, even if he can't kamui those jutsu he can certainly kamui himself and get out of harms way.

 

[Draphsin]

obito said that kakashi warped naruto faster than he got the stuck out
kakashi warped susano's arroew in no time
i mean that kakashi's kamui is instant
itachi has only 1 or 2 one shut jutsu

you keep repeating yourself and you dont even have a stable argument....i answered all of your counter arguments so better luck next time :ice:

Hey, even if he can't kamui those jutsu he can certainly kamui himself and get out of harms way.

That takes a large toll on his chakra reserves though, he wouldnt do it unless completely trapped and even then it isnt as instant as the OP is making it out to be

 

[Lost Woods Denizen]

He can teleport himself to the next dimension, draining chakra, and then when he comes back (once again draining chakra) we can have a rinse and repeat. Kakashi is running out of chakra a lot faster than Naruto, no matter how you look at it.

Also, I agree that Obito's usage of kamui is the best. In fact, I believe that if Obito had both of his eyes, he would be a major issue. But unfortunately it is Kakashi, a non-Uchiha, that has the left eye kamui, reducing its potential significantly.

 

[Honord Sage]

How can Kakashi be the strongest now? The strongest is the one giving Him power and thats Naruto.

 

[kakashi ms]

I understand why this thread has reached 9 pages. It is less you trying to debate why Kakashi's kamui is the strongest, and more of you dismissing what everyone else is saying and constantly repeating the same thing despite it being refuted. I will state one more time that susanoo's arrows are not instantaneous, nor is kamui instantaneous (for Kakashi.) Kakashi must activate the mangekyou, perceive the object which he wants to warp, knead the necessary amount of chakra for the target, and then use the jutsu. The reason he and Guy were in such dire straits when the five bijuu were going to attack them with the bijuudama is because he would not have been able to warp all at the same time.

Obito stated, and I quote, "I could just teleport his entire body, but.." and then he shoots out the stake. If Obito made contact with the clone, that would have been an instant KO. That would have been the better tactic, in all actuality, however he did not want to take the risk of being hit with the same move, hence he chose the stake. The entire plan hinged on Obito wagering the speed of his stake against Kakashi's speed at warping the rasengan. That is it.

I do not understand why you keep bringing Itachi into this equation. There are many other ninja/techniques that could defeat Kakashi. Is Kamui able to bypass the gravitational power of shinra tensei? Is kamui of any worth when fighting within the hidden mist technique? Is Kamui able to CONTINUOUSLY warp the tailed beast beam shot by the ten tails, seeing as that is a move continuously releasing high amounts of chakra?

i will say it again
kakashi can warp himself to the od in height speed to avoid shinra tensi or any attack even the meteor ,the dust ,giant bigudoma,c0,c3
but i will ask you ,how will shinra tensi or all riningan jutsus protect nagato from long range kamui

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

kakashi can counter all these list jutus but tell me how will they counter his instant kamui?
you just speak without any evidence

He can't counter all their jutsu for the ppl ill give u examples he won't really cetch onooki in it cuz onooki is a flyer and constantly moving around mu he won't find gaara is also a flyer even tho he just sits in one spot if kakashi cetchs him with kuami all he has to do is detach his sand armor then creating a new one thus a counter for kuami also with just a wave of his hand the sand will come back to him becaus it's infused with his chakra
Even with kyubbi cloak gaara still has way more chakra then kakashi and don't even get me started on stamina...
Here's some proof
Danzo beats anybody with KA witch unlike shishi can b used everyday
And if anything izangi thing is too powerful for kakashi to handle
Onooki -___- would dust release entire terrain destroying him
How does minato lose he can't cetch him even with kuami it takes two sharigan eyes to keep up with A full speed (noted by sasuke) kakashi only has one how would kakashi b able to b on speed with somebody who's supposedly faster then A

Gaara ... Here this is for him

Kakashi can't beat him he won't be able to reach gaara if he takes flight seriously and gaara sand attacks would kill Kakashi normal body (meaning hes not DURIBLE like kimmi or 3 rd raikage
The lighting attacks well seeing as A didnt do anything to gaara's sand when his body was sardounded in lighting he can still touch him so lighting won't save Kakashi from gaara's grabs and sand burials / imperial funnerals now as for chidori and raikari and yes it pierced part 1 but remember it was hard as hell for sasuke to pierce it it took long as hell for it to pierce not to mention gaara let sasuke come at him like that (stupid move) he didnt even try to defend cuz his ball never had been broken and in the end sasuke had to chidori again just to get his hand out of the sand ball
Gaara's sand is that strong in part 1 stronger when he fought kimmi even stronger when he fought deidara gotten both stronger and faster when he defended and attacked sasuke
And now is faster then ever plus he can fight in air instead of being in Kakashi rakari reach
Kakashi has more smarts and expirence in battle (to me expirence doesn't matter like naruto> Kakashi) in battle but this is both their first war for both of them gaara has way better chakra and stamina then Kakashi

Honestly for me Kakashi wins over gaara 4/10 while gaara wind 6/10 of the time

Cuz tbh if anybody says ****ing kaumi -/- out of technicality Kakashi can kaumi everybody including madara -/- even if tht does happen gaara can slip out of his sand Shield. And if he kaumi sand all gaara has to do is wave his hand and the sand will come bac I mean look at deidara he found his arm eventually as long as the sand is still in naruto universe gaara can still get it bac cuz his chakra is mixed with it
Plus I have hard time beliving Kakashi can kaumi entire sand tsunami js

 

[kakashi ms]

Hey, even if he can't kamui those jutsu he can certainly kamui himself and get out of harms way.

yes and with kuarma chakra he can go to the other dimension as he want

 

[Lost Woods Denizen]

We do not know if gakidou cant absorb kamui. We do not know if shinra tensei's affect on gravity can distort the effect of kamui. And if you want to keep using the argument that Kakashi can just warp himself away from danger, then he will never win the fight. He wastes chakra warping back and forth, whereas someone like Naruto has access to enormous amounts of chakra, and can keep sending attacks that Kakashi will have to warp away from until Kakashi either 1) flees the battle, 2) runs out of chakra in either the other dimension or in the real one, or 3) decides to use another move besides kamui, as it drains so much chakra.

Lastly, we do not know how fast Kakashi can warp himself. It takes longer for Obito to warp himself than it takes to warp others, so the same rule may apply to Kakashi. The fact of the matter is, no matter how much we debate this, there is no distinct way of proving anything. But I will say that IF Kakashi is so powerful with his kamui, he is guilty of letting many people die, when all it would take is to warp away Madara or the ten tails (seeing as kamui is not effective against Obito) to end the war. If Kakashi alone could end this war, then he is a horrible character for not doing so.

 

[kakashi ms]

He can't counter all their jutsu for the ppl ill give u examples he won't really cetch onooki in it cuz onooki is a flyer and constantly moving around mu he won't find gaara is also a flyer even tho he just sits in one spot if kakashi cetchs him with kuami all he has to do is detach his sand armor then creating a new one thus a counter for kuami also with just a wave of his hand the sand will come back to him becaus it's infused with his chakra
Even with kyubbi cloak gaara still has way more chakra then kakashi and don't even get me started on stamina...
Here's some proof
Danzo beats anybody with KA witch unlike shishi can b used everyday
And if anything izangi thing is too powerful for kakashi to handle
Onooki -___- would dust release entire terrain destroying him
How does minato lose he can't cetch him even with kuami it takes two sharigan eyes to keep up with A full speed (noted by sasuke) kakashi only has one how would kakashi b able to b on speed with somebody who's supposedly faster then A

Gaara ... Here this is for him

Kakashi can't beat him he won't be able to reach gaara if he takes flight seriously and gaara sand attacks would kill Kakashi normal body (meaning hes not DURIBLE like kimmi or 3 rd raikage
The lighting attacks well seeing as A didnt do anything to gaara's sand when his body was sardounded in lighting he can still touch him so lighting won't save Kakashi from gaara's grabs and sand burials / imperial funnerals now as for chidori and raikari and yes it pierced part 1 but remember it was hard as hell for sasuke to pierce it it took long as hell for it to pierce not to mention gaara let sasuke come at him like that (stupid move) he didnt even try to defend cuz his ball never had been broken and in the end sasuke had to chidori again just to get his hand out of the sand ball
Gaara's sand is that strong in part 1 stronger when he fought kimmi even stronger when he fought deidara gotten both stronger and faster when he defended and attacked sasuke
And now is faster then ever plus he can fight in air instead of being in Kakashi rakari reach
Kakashi has more smarts and expirence in battle (to me expirence doesn't matter like naruto> Kakashi) in battle but this is both their first war for both of them gaara has way better chakra and stamina then Kakashi

Honestly for me Kakashi wins over gaara 4/10 while gaara wind 6/10 of the time

Cuz tbh if anybody says ****ing kaumi -/- out of technicality Kakashi can kaumi everybody including madara -/- even if tht does happen gaara can slip out of his sand Shield. And if he kaumi sand all gaara has to do is wave his hand and the sand will come bac I mean look at deidara he found his arm eventually as long as the sand is still in naruto universe gaara can still get it bac cuz his chakra is mixed with it
Plus I have hard time beliving Kakashi can kaumi entire sand tsunami js

kakashi with kamui can reach gara anywhere
kakshi's kamui faster than gara's sand and even that kakashi can warp part of his sand which protect him then warp gara through this hole which he did

 

[kakashi ms]

We do not know if gakidou cant absorb kamui. We do not know if shinra tensei's affect on gravity can distort the effect of kamui. And if you want to keep using the argument that Kakashi can just warp himself away from danger, then he will never win the fight. He wastes chakra warping back and forth, whereas someone like Naruto has access to enormous amounts of chakra, and can keep sending attacks that Kakashi will have to warp away from until Kakashi either 1) flees the battle, 2) runs out of chakra in either the other dimension or in the real one, or 3) decides to use another move besides kamui, as it drains so much chakra.

Lastly, we do not know how fast Kakashi can warp himself. It takes longer for Obito to warp himself than it takes to warp others, so the same rule may apply to Kakashi. The fact of the matter is, no matter how much we debate this, there is no distinct way of proving anything. But I will say that IF Kakashi is so powerful with his kamui, he is guilty of letting many people die, when all it would take is to warp away Madara or the ten tails (seeing as kamui is not effective against Obito) to end the war. If Kakashi alone could end this war, then he is a horrible character for not doing so.

kakashi won't defend only he attack to so he can avoid one attack then he warp his enemy although kakashi's kamui is the fastest jutsu

 

[Lost Woods Denizen]

What about a barrage of bijuudama?

 

[Draphsin]

kakashi won't defend only he attack to so he can avoid one attack then he warp his enemy although kakashi's kamui is the fastest jutsu

What?? youre saying kakashi can kamui an attack and then warp his enemy? lol he cant warp simultaneously show me proof where he kamui's 2 things 1 after the other. And you cant counter the argument that kakashi's kamui has no effect on obito and if it was kakashi v naruto how would he have access to kurama's chakra? he loses to both of them U_U in fact they stomp

 

[Lost Woods Denizen]

Kakashi kamui'd two arrows from susanoo. That is not the issue. The issue with Kakashi's kamui are his chakra limitations, and the time it takes to mold the necessary chakra to warp large objects.

 

[kakashi ms]

What?? youre saying kakashi can kamui an attack and then warp his enemy? lol he cant warp simultaneously show me proof where he kamui's 2 things 1 after the other. And you cant counter the argument that kakashi's kamui has no effect on obito and if it was kakashi v naruto how would he have access to kurama's chakra? he loses to both of them U_U in fact they stomp

kakashi have chance to beat obio as they has the same dimension
and kakashi can make clone which will go to the other dimension then the real kakashi attack obito then the clone kill obito in the other dimension
i tlk about kakashi with kuarma chakara not normal kakashi

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

kakashi with kamui can reach gara anywhere
kakshi's kamui faster than gara's sand and even that kakashi can warp part of his sand which protect him then warp gara through this hole which he did

U clearly didn't read what I said.. Kuami is instantious like amatrasu neither is faster
With gaara's current reaction spee feats chances of gaara getting caught with kuami (in the air ) is kinda low
His reaction speed feats tht I'm talking. About was in the fight with madara, madara used one of hashi jutsu called Wood Release: Advent of a World of Flowering Trees witch is an instantious (like kuami or amatrasu) Forrest jutsu with tht being said gaara was able to not only defend himself from it but 3 other kages as well
So yes I don't c him getting caught in kuami js both kuami and Wood Release: Advent of a World of Flowering Trees along with amatrasu is instantious jutsu all the same speed if ur able to block one u can defend ur self from the other (whn I say block I don't just only blocking an attack it can also mean evade)
Here's some info on the jutsu...Wood Release: Advent of a World of Flowering Trees


Taking advantage of the innate properties of Wood Release which allows the user to force trees to grow on any surface in an instant, the user creates a dense forest of flowering trees. The pollen produced by these flowers is then released into the atmosphere and when inhaled, renders any afflicted target unconscious.

With enough willpower, it is possible to regain consciousness. However, in order to counter the technique fully, either the trees themselves must be destroyed completely or the target must continue to remain elevated above the dispersed pollen.


Not to mention I c u didn't have anything else to say bout the others

 

[Lost Woods Denizen]

What about Kakashi against Naruto? I don't see Naruto giving Kakashi kyuubi chakra in that situation. And Kakashi is incapable of beating Obito by himself. Kamui would be rendered ineffective by Obito, and Obito would assault him with his own kamui abilities.