Current Kakashi is still Kage level

[TrollingSage]

Of course. If fodders like Tsunade are kkage level, then batman Kakashi is definitely kage level.

 

[Sleipney]

This thread

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+rep

Agreed, +1 rep, not only because Kakashi is one of my favorite characters but also cause of all the trouble you went for searching/gathering all the intel

 

[Xāvî1]

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[KingHashirama]

Of course. If fodders like Tsunade are kkage level, then batman Kakashi is definitely kage level.

Don't insult Batman.

 

[babajara0102]

He has 4 chakra natures,I wonder why didn't he developed his own Kekkei Genkai

 

[RedRobin]

Of course. If fodders like Tsunade are kkage level, then batman Kakashi is definitely kage level.

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Yeah real fodder.

 

[LOCKKO REE]

Kakashi's main power was his sharingan and without it he is an ordinary jounin or a high level jounin you can say. plus if you remember his specialty is chidori which works with sharingan otherwise he cannot control his attack as minato said when he was alive, third and most important his stamina is very low so he is not kage level in my opinion

 

[RedRobin]

Kakashi's main power was his sharingan and without it he is an ordinary jounin or a high level jounin you can say. plus if you remember his specialty is chidori which works with sharingan otherwise he cannot control his attack as minato said when he was alive, third and most important his stamina is very low so he is not kage level in my opinion

You realize his stamina and chakra were low because of sharingan?

 

[Your Creepy Stalker]

no. high jonin max. (around no gates gai)

he does start relying mainly on his sharingan in part 2.

 

[senjusana]

Amazing thread. With or without Sharingan,Kakashi is always a great shinobi.

 

[shelke]

No, he isn't. Let's not push it.

 

[kimb]

So in your opinion you believe Sakura beats Kakashi for this reason as well? Cause she has byakugou as well... I already said this before a kunai will end Tsunade in the right spot. He uses a bunshin feint stabs her in the eye, then beheads her with a lightning enhanced kunai. This latest chapter showed his pinpoint accuracy and speed in executing.


funny cause you already argued against it. Read the last sentence lol.

No, you claimed Tsunade > Sakura because of experience, Tsunade > Kakashi because she's better than Sakura, I never said in anyway Sakura could beat Kakashi, I said Tsunades Byakugou could. Thats like me saying Madara's sharingan could beat minato, then you claiming that I said anyone with sharingan could beat minato. And tell me how I argued against that guys comment?

 

[Bantos]

What. No, he's not.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Of course he's still kage level. Over a thousand jutsus. I mean, he has incredible versatility. Lightning blade can be used without sharingan if he's careful with it.(such as only using it when there's an opening or having a clone as back-up) He has countless powerful jutsus and the know-how to use them. Granted, he's not anywhere near high-kage level.

 

[KingHashirama]

Of course he's still kage level. Over a thousand jutsus. I mean, he has incredible versatility. Lightning blade can be used without sharingan if he's careful with it.(such as only using it when there's an opening or having a clone as back-up) He has countless powerful jutsus and the know-how to use them. Granted, he's not anywhere near high-kage level.

he copied t1k jutsu.. not he learned 1 k jutsu.

 

[xxSAGExx]

Title says it all. I believe Base Kakashi is incredibly underrated, something totally contradicting with the manga and i'll explain why U_U

First of all, in part1 Itachi rated Kakashi to be on a similar level as Kisame. I don't have the viz scan(if anyone has it, it would be fine), but here is the translated script that you can find in the viz translation section and this is what he says to Kisame



Like you can see, according to Itachi, part1 Kakashi was a threat to Kisame. He left Kisame fight the likes of Asuma or Kurenai without warnings, but when Kakashi came, he did warn him to avoid injuries

And we talk about a Kakashi who was out of shape in part1

This is further confirmed when Tsunade despite knowing Kakashi actually fought Itachi(the murderer of entire Uchiha clan), plus another S-Rank shinobi was surprised he actually lost [

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Besides, in shippuden at some point Tsunade herself even admitted Kakashi was better for the post(with Jiraya approving)

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Even the elders and suna supported him for the post

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Kamui was not well-known at that point and even til now, not everyone know that jutsu, so it kinda shows that base Kakashi is actually a Hokage level candidate

Only reason Tsunade was even Hokage is because age is a great critera in the Hokage post. We've seen the council member hesitating to give him the post simply because he was too young

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Plus, Kakashi himself said he was never interested to begin with

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In latest chapter we've even the difference in intelligence, reaction speed and usage of ninja tools between Kakashi and Sakura(who is considered to be Tsunade's level by some) in a short amount of time saving her, himself and Obito

Quick thinking

- The dude was just teleported to a new location, yet he was already capable to distinguish reality and illusion

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Quick to act

- Not only he distinguish reality with illusion in nanoseconds, but he was also quick to act in such a tight situation

1- Summon a scroll
2- Ties it to one kunai to use it as a rope
3- Pin it to the rock above, saving himself and Sakura
4- Use another kunai to pin Obito on another rock saving his life

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In part1, he was already the number1 technician of Konoha and that's when Hiruzen was still alive

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So in terms of ninjutsu, he was put above a Hokage level like Hiruzen

Some say he weakened a lot due to losing his Sharingan, but it's only partially correct. Let's look it concretly

What does he really lose by not having his Sharingan anymore? He already have more than thousand techniques in his arsenal. It's part of his arsenal and will never go away Sharingan or not

The only thing relevant that he loses is the Sharingan precognition, but with his great usage of clones decepting even other geniuses, he can easily make up for it

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All his ninjutsu, taijutsu, intelligence, skills remain intact. Not to mention that without Sharingan draining his chakra, he would actually have more stamina to spam techniques and last longer in fights.

Considering with Sharingan he was capable to refine his chakra to the point of fighting 2 days long in wars, it will be particularly interesting to watch

Hope you enjoy reading U_U

96% of the things you said were because of Kakashi having the Sharingan. Kakashi copied Kisame's water jutsu and it was then that Itachi said what you did in your post. Tsunade never said Kakashi would be better than her, she only said he would be a replacement if anything happened to her since she wanted to go with Jiraiya to investigate Pein. People didn't have to know about Kamui, having the sharingan alone grants Kakashi the ability to see thru ninjutsus, genjutsus and taijutsus, allows him to use his lightning blade effectively since Minato said chidori alone was an incomplete jutsus so Kakashi lost use to that or as effectively as before. As for the technician thing, it's call the sharingan can copy most jutsus bro.

It wasn't Suna council, it was Gaara who recommend to tell Kakashi of the sharingan what happened at the summit, to the other kages and A said he seems trustworthy.

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and

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. As for the Tsunade saying Kakashi got defeated by two enemies (Itachi and Kisame), she didn't really remember the specifics, she even forgot who she was going to heal so why would she remember the specifics?

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.

Kakashi was jounin level in part one, having the sharingan only gave him an edge to predict, read and copy his enemies moves. Wrong, Kakashi lost all the jutsus he copied with his sharingan; he had to use his sharingan just to use most of his jutsus because when the sharingan copies it, you need it active to use it. Kakashi used a doton with his sharingan covered but that doesn't mean he has tons for doton styles. Only ever used water jutsus with his sharingan. Also Kakashi wasn't fighting for 2 days constantly, they took breaks and it shows that.

Kakashi does have the natures of lightning, water and earth but learning to use them takes a long time as stated by Kakashi and Naruto had to use many clones to speed up his wind training. At one point Naruto was training with 200 clones, that's 200 days worth of training in 1 day right there. Since the Sharingan can copy, Kakashi could have used it to help him learn water and earth manipulation since he had lightning before the sharingan. Kakashi is at jounin level like he was before, if he actually fought kage levels without his Sharingan but since he needed to use it and still had trouble, without it he wouldn't stand a chance. He still had his smarts and skills but he needed the sharingan to help him read movements, thus avoiding possible injuries or death, while copying jutsus that he can use to counter, and to predict the enemy's move to get the drop on them if he has the speed.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

If his strength ain't anything worth mentioning.. no need to wank it. Hence the point that his strength is normal.. nothing new
no clue why you are mentioning that since i stated i didn't know about him having the ability to put lightening on his kunais...

Yes because i need to pay attention to every single detail in the manga to know a character right? It is your kakashi that hyped up the Sanin. It is your Kakashi that put Hiruzen over himself.. yet i see you kakashi wankers putting Kakashi over Hiruzen.. yea .. just no.

And smartass, do you know how remedies are made? And clearly you didn't even know of the fact Tsunade poisoned Jiraiya.... Something so strong that even shizune couldn't cure it. And who do you think shizune learned from? herself? Yea no..





So don't tell me to reread the manga, when you are the one who is wanking without even looking at the realty of things. As I said Kakashi is nothing but a jounin level ninja now... stop acting like its a bad thing. When he can beat the top jounin level ninja like Darui and Kitsuchi he may become kage level without the sharingan.. as for right now.. no.

Just because it doesn't reach an extreme that doesn't mean there isn't any reason to take note of it. Is tsunade's cqc good? No it's crap compared to what weve seen. But you wank it to infinity and beyond just because of jman's passing comment.
So if you don't know what kakashi can do... then how can you say someone is stronger than him? Typical kh.


When did I say kakashi>hiruzen in this thread? There you go assuming things again.

I'm well aware of what tsunade did to jman but like you said. It isn't worth mentioning. As for it being a poison? Debatable. At best it performed as a weak sedative. Did she even attempt? Last I checked time was of the essence.
So wait...in order for one to be good in poisons they have to learn from tsunade? So sasori and chiyo got their poisons from tsunade? Sakura got it from tsunade too despite kakashi saying the opposite? Do you even have proof that shizune learned it from her or are you just assuming crap again?

I'm not even gonna acknowledge that last paragraph. If you think either of those two beat kakashi in vs see me in the vs threads.

 

[Strict]

Sharingan granted more than Kamui. Part 1 Kakashi was still a sharingan user.

This. Without Sharingan, he lacks precision and reaction. Plus, Genjutsu have an easy game on him. He can't read the opponents moves. He is high Jonin without Sharingan imo.

 

[Bogard]

96% of the things you said were because of Kakashi having the Sharingan. Kakashi copied Kisame's water jutsu and it was then that Itachi said what you did in your post.

Irrelevant. He already has those techniques in his arsenal and can make use of them, Sharingan or not

Tsunade never said Kakashi would be better than her, she only said he would be a replacement if anything happened to her since she wanted to go with Jiraiya to investigate Pein.

No, Jiraya said no one was better than her in the village before she mentioned the fact Kakashi is there(and thus admitting Kakashi was better) with Jiraya approving

People didn't have to know about Kamui, having the sharingan alone grants Kakashi the ability to see thru ninjutsus, genjutsus and taijutsus, allows him to use his lightning blade effectively since Minato said chidori alone was an incomplete jutsus so Kakashi lost use to that or as effectively as before.

He still has more than thousand other jutsus. Kakashi is enough smart to identify jutsus by himself. Latest chapter showed his great analytical capacity to distinguish reality and illusion and that was without Sharingan.

Besides, the accuracy is lacking only when he tries to engage himself with the technique at full speed. Because of the speed of the movement, he can't see counter-attacks effectively. Minato was talking about that particular danger, but if the opponent doesn't possess the physical capacity to react for one or other reason, it's useless(like the 17clones kid Kakashi destroyed for example before the original finally got use to his speed). With the usage of diversions like blocking eye sight, clones or hiding attacks from behind, he can make use of it

The only thing relevant that he loses like i've said in the thread is the sharingan precognition, but with his skilful usage of ninjutsu techniques he can easily make up for it

As for the technician thing, it's call the sharingan can copy most jutsus bro.

Again irrelevant. He doesn't need to copy more jutsus. With the jutsus he already copied when he had the Sharingan(and more) he was already considered the be the number1 technician in Konoha

It wasn't Suna council, it was Gaara who recommend to tell Kakashi of the sharingan what happened at the summit, to the other kages and A said he seems trustworthy.

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.

Gaara is the Kazekage, no one is better than him in judging a stranger's strength in the village than him. We barely even know other sunagakure ninjas, so i don't see your point

As for the Tsunade saying Kakashi got defeated by two enemies (Itachi and Kisame), she didn't really remember the specifics, she even forgot who she was going to heal so why would she remember the specifics?

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.

She doesn't remember yet she knows the number of enemies? Seems legit

Kakashi was jounin level in part one, having the sharingan only gave him an edge to predict, read and copy his enemies moves. Wrong, Kakashi lost all the jutsus he copied with his sharingan; he had to use his sharingan just to use most of his jutsus because when the sharingan copies it, you need it active to use it. Kakashi used a doton with his sharingan covered but that doesn't mean he has tons for doton styles. Only ever used water jutsus with his sharingan. Also Kakashi wasn't fighting for 2 days constantly, they took breaks and it shows that.

Was nonsense is this? Copying a technique involve knowing the working of said technique and use it on your own. By copying with the Sharingan, Kakashi already learned how the techniques he copied works, helping him to use it on his own. The advantage the Sharingan gives is to learn the workings of the technique faster. It doesn't mean however that Sharingan gives your a ninjutsu capacity.

We've already seen Kakashi use doton techniques without Sharingan and according to Gai, all of them were copied. When you copy a technique it doesn't go away. The only thing he loses is the capacity to copy more, but he doesn't need it with his already great ninjutsu arsenal.

As for Kakashi's ranking, well if it's really the case, then Kisame should drop some tiers in the ranking lists. Not to mention you're talking about a was out of shape Kakashi here, something he mentioned several times in part1. He slacked off in his training because of peaceful life

 

[Strict]

Kakashi wouldn't use the Raikiri as effectively as with the Sharingan.

Spoiler

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Obito: "..."

SFX: WSH

"A Sharingan-relying lightning blade...

You've really honed and mastered that left eye, even awakening the Mangekyo...

However... Can you return from the other place one more time...?

In your current condition?"

SFX: ZWW ZWW

Which of the Kage Base Kakashi would be able to beat?