Current Kakashi is still Kage level

[ToshiZO]

Please tell me how current Kakashi beats Byakugou Tsunade? His chidori's accuracy which is his ace in the hole, has been reduced immensely, and now he has to depend on these 10/1,000 seen, supposed 1,000 jutsu of his. I don't even like Tsunade like that, but she solos current Kakashi.

Tsunade is just a more experienced version of Sakura at this point. Her telegraphed attacks wont be too much of a hindrance for Kakashi, he is still too fast for her, has more chakra then he did with Sharingan allowing more room for bunshin feints. He will get the job done.

 

[Selan]

What Kakashi lost with his Sharingan:

- Sharingan/MS precognition to have enhanced top tier reflexes
- the ability to use Raikiri effectively against high level enemies
- Sharingan/MS genjutsu as powerful as Obito's
- the ability to copy and preempt ninjutsu, taijutsu and genjutsu
- the ability to warp himself to teleport from the real world in Kamui dimension and the opposite (really useful to recharge chakra or gather it and delay fights or to use surprise attacks)
- the ability to one-shot nearly every enemy he could ever face with Kamui, something that made him actually able to contend with nearly every ****ing character in the manga, no matter how strong and powerful

Now he can't even win 100 on 100 against Deidara, for example. Being faster than Sasuke as he is, Sharingan less Kakashi could probably blitz and kill him quickly; but if you make Deidara start already on his bird, how can Kakashi avoid C4? Or now he's susceptible to Sharingan genjutsu, for example, while he wasn't before.

His Sharingan in combo with his high level speed + piercing/cutting nintaijutsu as Raikiri/Raiden was pretty strong, now is no more. Before, with Kamui, he could warp anything, at least he could try. He couldn't have break Susanoo, but Kamui warps it or the user. He couldn't have break defense X or killed character Y, but Kamui let him. The Sharingan hax was something that can't be replaced in any way, especially now with power levels going to the roof. With Kamui you can go everywhere you want, warp away anything or anyone you want. You don't even need to put yourself in an harmful situation, if you have enough skill with the jutsu and enough reflexes to use it effectively. Also it was his symbol, but Kishimoto didn't care.

He had top notch reactions thanks to Sharingan, that he used to fight for more than half his life, and now he hasn't it anymore. He could use Sharingan genjutsu for offense and the Sharingan for defense, now he can't attack at that level and his defense is really not so great. He could see chakra, that could be something really helpful, and now he can't. He could copy and preempt movements and jutsu, that helped him to time his attacks and movements, and amp his jutsu pool, now he can't anymore. Had he to face a powerful defense that he couldn't have come around or break... he had Kamui. Just think how hax was Kamui space-time barrier. It required the same effort to take care to cut Gato's bodyguard's head or the 3rd Raikage's, you can warp a Doton wall and a Susanoo with the same ease. You can warp even ****ing Onmyoton. It doesn't matter how powerful your defense is, even if that could tank 10 Juubidara, Kamui would warp your ass.Had he to defend from something that he couldn't dodge or that was too powerful for Doton defenses... he had Kamui. Had he to take a rest and replenish his chakra and then launch even a surprise, unpredictable attack... he had Kamui. Now he hasn't anymore. With Kamui he had the chance to defeat nearly anyone, maybe of course he wasn't the strongest among all, of course, but he was a very skilled ninja with some of the best base abilities you can find, a wide jutsu pool and then an ultra-haxxed trump card. Now his base abilities are lower (no Sharingan reflexes, precog etc) and he hasn't that trump card anymore. I'd like to see how he could be better... de-powering him doesn't make any sense. He is of course still a S-rank/kage level shinobi, but he is not a top mother****er anymore.

 

[King Of Pop]

Kakashi without his sharingan is not Kage level. And if you honestly believe he is without his sharingan, you're being an idiot.. There's no sugar coating it. You're using personal character anecdotes in replacement of manga facts and feats. Another thing, how are you going to pull facts out of your ass claiming that Kakashi can move at speeds of nanoseconds? Thats 1/1,000,000,000's of a secone (1 billionth). 60 nanoseconds is faster than the speed of light. The only time Kakashi could be power scaled without the sharingan is before Obito died, he basically had the sharingan for over 80% of his life.

And yes highly capable, and no he's not useless, he has proved himself useful this chapter by saving Sakura and Obito, but he Kage level without the sharingan, hell no. Blatant stupidity just aggravates me.

i agree with this. i believe kakashi is being a little overestimated here. that sharingan was with him more times than it wasnt and lets be honest hes used it in nearly all his fights and sharingan helps one is reading and copying the opponent and being able to react properly. lets not underate what it brings to the table. also kakashi mostly(in this war at least) rolled with the higher tier due to his prowess with the ms, without it will he be able to take down opponents he could only take down because of it(sharingan), it would be very difficult. just my opinion tho

 

[kimb]

Tsunade is just a more experienced version of Sakura at this point. Her telegraphed attacks wont be too much of a hindrance for Kakashi, he is still too fast for her, has more chakra then he did with Sharingan allowing more room for bunshin feints. He will get the job done.

How does Kakashi beat Tsunade? All you've told me is that Kakashi outspeeds Tsunade which is obvious, but that does not explain how Kakashi defeats, kills, or subdues Tsunade. What is he going to use, since chidori and raikiri are too risky due to their low accuracy? What attack is currently Kakashi going to use that Tsunade cannot tank. Tsunade losing to current Kakashi is an insult.

 

[kimb]

What Kakashi lost with his Sharingan:

- Sharingan/MS precognition to have enhanced top tier reflexes
- the ability to use Raikiri effectively against high level enemies
- Sharingan/MS genjutsu as powerful as Obito's
- the ability to copy and preempt ninjutsu, taijutsu and genjutsu
- the ability to warp himself to teleport from the real world in Kamui dimension and the opposite (really useful to recharge chakra or gather it and delay fights or to use surprise attacks)
- the ability to one-shot nearly every enemy he could ever face with Kamui, something that made him actually able to contend with nearly every ****ing character in the manga, no matter how strong and powerful

Now he can't even win 100 on 100 against Deidara, for example. Being faster than Sasuke as he is, Sharingan less Kakashi could probably blitz and kill him quickly; but if you make Deidara start already on his bird, how can Kakashi avoid C4? Or now he's susceptible to Sharingan genjutsu, for example, while he wasn't before.

His Sharingan in combo with his high level speed + piercing/cutting nintaijutsu as Raikiri/Raiden was pretty strong, now is no more. Before, with Kamui, he could warp anything, at least he could try. He couldn't have break Susanoo, but Kamui warps it or the user. He couldn't have break defense X or killed character Y, but Kamui let him. The Sharingan hax was something that can't be replaced in any way, especially now with power levels going to the roof. With Kamui you can go everywhere you want, warp away anything or anyone you want. You don't even need to put yourself in an harmful situation, if you have enough skill with the jutsu and enough reflexes to use it effectively. Also it was his symbol, but Kishimoto didn't care.

He had top notch reactions thanks to Sharingan, that he used to fight for more than half his life, and now he hasn't it anymore. He could use Sharingan genjutsu for offense and the Sharingan for defense, now he can't attack at that level and his defense is really not so great. He could see chakra, that could be something really helpful, and now he can't. He could copy and preempt movements and jutsu, that helped him to time his attacks and movements, and amp his jutsu pool, now he can't anymore. Had he to face a powerful defense that he couldn't have come around or break... he had Kamui. Just think how hax was Kamui space-time barrier. It required the same effort to take care to cut Gato's bodyguard's head or the 3rd Raikage's, you can warp a Doton wall and a Susanoo with the same ease. You can warp even ****ing Onmyoton. It doesn't matter how powerful your defense is, even if that could tank 10 Juubidara, Kamui would warp your ass.Had he to defend from something that he couldn't dodge or that was too powerful for Doton defenses... he had Kamui. Had he to take a rest and replenish his chakra and then launch even a surprise, unpredictable attack... he had Kamui. Now he hasn't anymore. With Kamui he had the chance to defeat nearly anyone, maybe of course he wasn't the strongest among all, of course, but he was a very skilled ninja with some of the best base abilities you can find, a wide jutsu pool and then an ultra-haxxed trump card. Now his base abilities are lower (no Sharingan reflexes, precog etc) and he hasn't that trump card anymore. I'd like to see how he could be better... de-powering him doesn't make any sense. He is of course still a S-rank/kage level shinobi, but he is not a top mother****er anymore.

Any efforts to argue against this, against manga facts? Is personal BS.

 

[ToshiZO]

How does Kakashi beat Tsunade? All you've told me is that Kakashi outspeeds Tsunade which is obvious, but that does not explain how Kakashi defeats, kills, or subdues Tsunade. What is he going to use, since chidori and raikiri are too risky due to their low accuracy? What attack is currently Kakashi going to use that Tsunade cannot tank. Tsunade losing to current Kakashi is an insult.

So in your opinion you believe Sakura beats Kakashi for this reason as well? Cause she has byakugou as well... I already said this before a kunai will end Tsunade in the right spot. He uses a bunshin feint stabs her in the eye, then beheads her with a lightning enhanced kunai. This latest chapter showed his pinpoint accuracy and speed in executing.

Any efforts to argue against this, against manga facts? Is personal BS.

funny cause you already argued against it. Read the last sentence lol.

 

[KingHashirama]

No sharingan = non-kage Level. What i don't get is whats wrong with being a Jounin level? Current Kakashi can't create mountains like Kitsuchi....

So in your opinion you believe Sakura beats Kakashi for this reason as well? Cause she has byakugou as well... I already said this before a kunai will end Tsunade in the right spot. He uses a bunshin feint stabs her in the eye, then beheads her with a lightning enhanced kunai. This latest chapter showed his pinpoint accuracy and speed in executing.


funny cause you already argued against it. Read the last sentence lol.

Its funny how Manga clearly puts the Sanin over Kakashi, yet you make fanboys make statements like these, and expect people who read the manga and only care for the characters in the manga to buy into your statements.

 

[ShiroT]

pinpoint accuracy. For a man who just pinned a falling Obitos hand with a kunai while doing two other things simultaneously, finding an opening against someone like Tsunade is not difficult. Sometimes power is not everything, skill can overcome strength. And that is the case with this match up.

and tsunade is a great a great fighter and mind you kakashi did that WITH his sharingan.

 

[Callypigia]

I don't think so. Shairgan gave him a lot of power.

It's true that he's not nearly as strong as he was with the Sharingan, but there's a lot more to being a Kage. He is still wise, self-sacrificing, and respected among the shinobi of all the villages.

 

[ShiroT]

So in your opinion you believe Sakura beats Kakashi for this reason as well? Cause she has byakugou as well... I already said this before a kunai will end Tsunade in the right spot. He uses a bunshin feint stabs her in the eye, then beheads her with a lightning enhanced kunai. This latest chapter showed his pinpoint accuracy and speed in executing.


funny cause you already argued against it. Read the last sentence lol.

tsunade has combat experience. sakura canonically has been in maybe 3 fights in shippuden

 

[ShiroT]

It's true that he's not nearly as strong as he was with the Sharingan, but there's a lot more to being a Kage. He is still wise, self-sacrificing, and respected among the shinobi of all the villages.

kage level means how strong you are not smart

 

[ShiroT]

I doubt he still has the same weaknesses he had when he was younger look at Ay and bee they have no sharingan and they do just fine look at naruto's speed we have seen faster characters with no sharingan deal with the speed he has experience with it now he did not have before plus he has variations where he does not even have to move

kakashi stated it himself no need to go against it

 

[ToshiZO]

and tsunade is a great a great fighter and mind you kakashi did that WITH his sharingan.

No he did that without his sharingan. Just in the latest chapter actually.

tsunade has combat experience. sakura canonically has been in maybe 3 fights in shippuden

Not relevant to that guys post. He said Tsunade tanks everything thats the only reason she wins. Well than Sakura does the same. Sure combat experience helps, which is what makes her better than Sakura, but against a guy like Kakashi who is even more analytic and certainly has the tools to end it...he will end it.

 

[ShiroT]

No he did that without his sharingan. Just in the latest chapter actually.

Not relevant to that guys post. He said Tsunade tanks everything thats the only reason she wins. Well than Sakura does the same. Sure combat experience helps, which is what makes her better than Sakura, but against a guy like Kakashi who is even more analytic and certainly has the tools to end it...he will end it.

im saying tsunade is a tank and her being a better fighter then sakura she isnt just going to let kakashi put a kunia through her chest or eye etc.

im not saying kakashi cant hit her but she isnt stupid or slow enough to get decapitated

 

[ToshiZO]

im saying tsunade is a tank and her being a better fighter then sakura she isnt just going to let kakashi put a kunia through her chest or eye etc.

im not saying kakashi cant hit her but she isnt stupid or slow enough to get decapitated

Yea doing that directly would be tough which is why I said he does it in 2-3 steps. Meaning he somehow restrains her for a limited time enough for him to end this.

 

[ShiroT]

Yea doing that directly would be tough which is why I said he does it in 2-3 steps. Meaning he somehow restrains her for a limited time enough for him to end this.

how do you restrain something that can break restraints?

 

[Touken]

Without a Sharingan he was able to pinpoint Obito's hand with a kunai while both he and Obito were falling, and he did it all extremely quickly. That just goes to show he doesn't need a Sharingan to be a Kage-level shinobi.

Good work with the thread as well, Bogard.

 

[KingHashirama]

Jounin level ninja like Genma > Sound four (individually)

Then we jounin level ninja creating mountains:

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... yea no way in hell is Kakashi Kage level right now. Stop trying to downplay the Sharingan and its role in his life. Most of his "fame" is from the sharingan.

Without a Sharingan he was able to pinpoint Obito's hand with a kunai while both he and Obito were falling, and he did it all extremely quickly. That just goes to show he doesn't need a Sharingan to be a Kage-level shinobi.

Good work with the thread as well, Bogard.

That should be expected of a ninja of atleast jounin level..... . Lord the jounin level requirements on NB are so low. wtf is this.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

I'm surprised you didn't mention his strength bogard.... I am disappoint.

He threw a kunai into the ceiling with enough strength to support two people. What makes this even greater is the fact that from the position that they are in the active force pulling on the kunai(kakashi's and sakura's weight) makes the ceiling offer the least amount of resistance against the kunai sliding out.

Another strength feat is kakashi piercing obito's hand and the cave wall behind it despite obito(with that same hand mine you blocked) executioners bladhanded no diff.


DAT KAKASHI.

 

[duren batu]

Kakashi is elite jounin level without his sharingan.
Kakashi is chakra less version of hiruzen.
He's versatile ninja but the problem is his chakra level.
Ex:
Hiruzen create 10 m earth wall.
Kakashi create 2 m earth wall.

He's useful ninja but not that powerful.