Distance: 30 meters Location: Where Bee fought Kisame Mindset: To kill Intel: Full for both Restrictions: Any form of Ninjutsu (includes Kuchiyose and Kurama influence, healing jutsus and White Snake form), this is pre Rikudou powerup Naruto and Kabuto in the JJ Madara arc. Kawazu Kumite and Chakra Scalpel are allowed. Naruto has Minato's kunai and Kabuto has a bone from Shikotsumyaku, solely for CQC purposes. Sage Modes are infinite for both of the combatants.
"When someone learns Senjutsu they gain command of a terrifying Taijutsu. Basically in Sage Mode by collecting natural energy they gain danger sensing powers (what Naruto uses to evade the Third Raikage's attack, Kabuto to sense Amaterasu, etc..). They can sense the enemies movement, match enemies rhythm/speed, to release a severe counter. Energy is released from one part of the body, the attacks reach is extended (i think, little bit confusing here). There is no chink (or weak spot) in offense and defense, it's a flawless Taijutsu.
→ Ninjutsu didn't work on Pain so Naruto used Frog Kata.
↓ The attacks range extends substantially. Pain is sent flying away."
Lol, don't know why people are so quick to give this to Naruto, Kabuto has a fair shot here.
-When it comes to speed feats, Kabuto has the edge due to evading Sasuke's Susanoo arrow from close range, something someone as fast as Kakashi couldn't even evade from close range.
-Kabuto's Chakra Scalpel can cut through Naruto's skin, but Naruto's Kunai isn't going to do much damage to Kabuto's body. Same thing goes for Kimimaro's Bone, it'd probably take out the Kunai. Kabuto is also extremely resilient due to having a body similar to Orochimaru's.
-Frong Kata would be a major issue, if Kabuto couldn't see/sense it, but it's stated that those who have trained in Senjutsu can perceive the Nature Energy around the body of the user extending his range with Frog Kata, so Kabuto will be able to evade it and strike around it.
Lol, don't know why people are so quick to give this to Naruto, Kabuto has a fair shot here.
-When it comes to speed feats, Kabuto has the edge due to evading Sasuke's Susanoo arrow from close range, something someone as fast as Kakashi couldn't even evade from close range.
-Kabuto's Chakra Scalpel can cut through Naruto's skin, but Naruto's Kunai isn't going to do much damage to Kabuto's body. Same thing goes for Kimimaro's Bone, it'd probably take out the Kunai. Kabuto is also extremely resilient due to having a body similar to Orochimaru's.
-Frong Kata would be a major issue, if Kabuto couldn't see/sense it, but it's stated that those who have trained in Senjutsu can perceive the Nature Energy around the body of the user extending his range with Frog Kata, so Kabuto will be able to evade it and strike around it.
Kabuto has no prayer. Dodging a susanoo arrow doesn't mean much. SM Naruto's obviously faster than Kakashi as well. SM Naruto also has incredible speed feats. They both had a 3.5 in speed in the 3rd databook. Basically, their speed should be the same assuming they progressed at the same rate. Frog Kumite allows for utilizing sensing to match the rhythm of the enemy. Basically, Naruto has far better timing/reaction capability by default. With the energy extensions, he can hit the chakra scalpels without actually touching them physically. It'll exert force without consequence. This is completely one-sided.
SM Naruto's obviously faster than Kakashi as well. SM Naruto also has incredible speed feats. They both had a 3.5 in speed in the 3rd databook. Basically, their speed should be the same assuming they progressed at the same rate.
Oro and Sasuke have equal stats, yet their speeds are not the same. At all.
SM Naruto has some good speed feats, but better than dodging a Susanoo Arrow? Uh...No.
Not to mention you are also assuming they progressed at the same rate, considering Kabuto took in the DNA of several different Ninja, I think it's safe to throw that assumption out the window.
Frog Kumite allows for utilizing sensing to match the rhythm of the enemy. Basically, Naruto has far better timing/reaction capability by default. With the energy extensions, he can hit the chakra scalpels without actually touching them physically. It'll exert force without consequence. This is completely one-sided.
Frog Kata allowing the user to sense to better time their attacks and react to the opponents attacks=/=Any user of Frog Kata having better timing and reaction capability than anyone else who lacks said benefits. Especially since we are talking about a fellow Senjutsu user, with better reflexive feats than SM Naruto.
Not to mention the main point of Frog Kata is to hit the opponent with Nature Energy they cannot see. Kabuto can perceive it. Thus he'll be able to avoid clashing with the energy surrounding his hand. Frog Kata being perceivable pretty much makes this Naruto w/ a bigger fist vs. Kabuto. Not enough to say he dominates. Not. A. Chance.
There's also Kabuto's tail, which extends his reach and his body which is similar to Orochimaru's, that means mere Kunai cuts aren't going to put him down.....hell, Sages have durable bodies, so Kunai can't even pierce them IIRC, and physical punches aren't putting someone with Orochimaru's body (Better) down, so how in the world is Naruto even going to put Kabuto down let alone win?
And don't forget, this is the same Oro who took a direct hit from KN3...Kabuto has that enhanced by Senjutsu.
"When someone learns Senjutsu they gain command of a terrifying Taijutsu. Basically in Sage Mode by collecting natural energy they gain danger sensing powers (what Naruto uses to evade the Third Raikage's attack, Kabuto to sense Amaterasu, etc..). They can sense the enemies movement, match enemies rhythm/speed, to release a severe counter. Energy is released from one part of the body, the attacks reach is extended (i think, little bit confusing here). There is no chink (or weak spot) in offense and defense, it's a flawless Taijutsu.
→ Ninjutsu didn't work on Pain so Naruto used Frog Kata.
↓ The attacks range extends substantially. Pain is sent flying away."
Lol you should read the context tho. Its stating SM users can use invisible punches. The difference here is Kabuto (or Hashirama) Taijutsu is base on a different one then Frog Fu.
Oro and Sasuke have equal stats, yet their speeds are not the same. At all.
SM Naruto has some good speed feats, but better than dodging a Susanoo Arrow? Uh...No.
Not to mention you are also assuming they progressed at the same rate, considering Kabuto took in the DNA of several different Ninja, I think it's safe to throw that assumption out the window.
Frog Kata allowing the user to sense to better time their attacks and react to the opponents attacks=/=Any user of Frog Kata having better timing and reaction capability than anyone else who lacks said benefits. Especially since we are talking about a fellow Senjutsu user, with better reflexive feats than SM Naruto.
Not to mention the main point of Frog Kata is to hit the opponent with Nature Energy they cannot see. Kabuto can perceive it. Thus he'll be able to avoid clashing with the energy surrounding his hand. Frog Kata being perceivable pretty much makes this Naruto w/ a bigger fist vs. Kabuto. Not enough to say he dominates. Not. A. Chance.
There's also Kabuto's tail, which extends his reach and his body which is similar to Orochimaru's, that means mere Kunai cuts aren't going to put him down.....hell, Sages have durable bodies, so Kunai can't even pierce them IIRC, and physical punches aren't putting someone with Orochimaru's body (Better) down, so how in the world is Naruto even going to put Kabuto down let alone win?
And don't forget, this is the same Oro who took a direct hit from KN3...Kabuto has that enhanced by Senjutsu.
Oro and Sasuke don't have the same speed based on what? What are you basing this opinion on? They've never clashed when Oro wasn't on a deathbed.
Um...........yes. Naruto definitely has feats at least on par with dodging susanoo arrow. What's so good about the arrow anyway? Where does this hype come from? The only hype is that hand seals from non-enhanced ninjas are impossible, and Kakashi, despite his speed, couldn't counter it.
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This means that Kabuto, who dodged susanoo arrow, is far above Kakashi in speed and reflexes. Nice. However, this also can be attributed to Naruto as well.
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Kakashi fails to land a blow on Asura path when Deva Path is observing him at a distance.
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In a similar situation, with far greater visibility, Asura path completely fails to evade SM Naruto's attack, even though he approached from a long distance, and should have more than enough time to see it coming. Asura didn't even prepare a defense, showing that his speed is also far greater than Kakashi's.
Dodging susanoo arrow isn't a better feat by a long shot. Both feats use Kakashi as a base to surpass. The degrees that either surpass him are entirely subjective, and no evidence can be brought that either is actually faster than one another. Similar speed+superior CQB style=a victor on one side.
If you're holding on so much on feats and one showing something means that the other can't replicate it, Naruto's sensing, by that definition, is far superior.
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Going by the logic that there feats can't be shared by any means, then Naruto has a ridiculous feat trumping Kabuto's sensing, and has equivalent speed feats. Naruto's Frog Kata relies on sensing. Therefore, using his superior sensing with timing/rythym matching makes him far more lethal. It's like comparing a normal ninja to a 3T ninja with equal attributes. What happens in that situation? Answer: the 3T Uchiha stomps.
Naruto's attack doesn't need to be undetected. It acts as an extension of him. It's like pitting bare fists against someone with the reach of a shortsword. Other than the tail, which he can easily repel with Frog Kata, Naruto always has a reach advantage.
Naruto has superior timing, equivalent speed, better sensing, and superior range minus the tail. Kabuto can't win.
Lol you should read the context tho. Its stating SM users can use invisible punches. The difference here is Kabuto (or Hashirama) Taijutsu is base on a different one then Frog Fu.
Based on Sasuke's speed feats completely shitting on Orochimaru's on every front. Don't know why you are trying to use DB scores as evidence anyway, that only proves that their speed is equal, doesn't take into account the whole 9 yards, which would be reaction speed, Shunshin speed, reflexes etc.
Um...........yes. Naruto definitely has feats at least on par with dodging susanoo arrow.
2. He has no feat that'd outright imply that he can though.
-Evaded Susanoo Arrow.
-Evaded Sasuke's Susanoo's attempt to grab him, despite the hand being pretty much already around him, an inch away from him, and Susanoo's strikes aren't known to be slow.
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Kabuto's reflexive feats>Naruto's reflexive feats. Not even referring to raw speed here.
But regardless, I don't think that speed is going to be a major factor in this debate anyway.
What's so good about the arrow anyway? Where does this hype come from? The only hype is that hand seals from non-enhanced ninjas are impossible, and Kakashi, despite his speed, couldn't counter it.
Are we reading the same manga? The arrow is so fast that one of the manga's fastest characters at the time, and who is even considering to be fast now, couldn't evade it at all, he had to use a jutsu with no hand signs and a jutsu that is extremely fast to warp it away.
This means that Kabuto, who dodged susanoo arrow, is far above Kakashi in speed and reflexes. Nice. However, this also can be attributed to Naruto as well.
Kakashi fails to land a blow on Asura path when Deva Path is observing him at a distance.
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In a similar situation, with far greater visibility, Asura path completely fails to evade SM Naruto's attack, even though he approached from a long distance, and should have more than enough time to see it coming. Asura didn't even prepare a defense, showing that his speed is also far greater than Kakashi's.
Yes, that proves that Naruto is faster than Kakashi, but is blitzing Asura Path a better feat than dodging a Susanoo Arrow? No. Because Susanoo Arrow>>Any Path of Pain when it comes to speed. This would be a good counter had I said that Kabuto is faster than Naruto because he's faster than Kakashi.
Also? Far greater visibility? Naruto has how many meters away? He was barely visible. That isn't greater visibility.
Dodging susanoo arrow isn't a better feat by a long shot. Both feats use Kakashi as a base to surpass. The degrees that either surpass him are entirely subjective, and no evidence can be brought that either is actually faster than one another. Similar speed+superior CQB style=a victor on one side.
Your point? Naruto blitzing Asura and Kabuto dodging an Arrow are the feats that we are comparing. Naruto tagging Asura doesn't make him fast enough to dodge a Susanoo Arrow, it only makes him faster than Kakashi. Kabuto evading a Susanoo Arrow that "blitzed" Kakashi makes him faster/more reflexive than any Path of Pain by far.
If you're holding on so much on feats and one showing something means that the other can't replicate it, Naruto's sensing, by that definition, is far superior.
That sensing is because of Nature Energy, something all Perfect Sages have, so it's a transitive feat.
Also, I never said or implied the bold so please don't try and put words in my mouth to justify these nonsensical comparisons of yours. There is reason why this sensing feat isn't exclusively because of Naruto's skill...he's already stated where that sensing comes from, and Kabuto has the same power, thus the same sensing.
If you want me to believe that Naruto is faster than Kabuto, then you better damn well be ready to give me feats to prove it. Speed isn't something you hand over to anyone you want with no reasoning behind it.
Going by the logic that there feats can't be shared by any means, then Naruto has a ridiculous feat trumping Kabuto's sensing, and has equivalent speed feats. Naruto's Frog Kata relies on sensing. Therefore, using his superior sensing with timing/rythym matching makes him far more lethal. It's like comparing a normal ninja to a 3T ninja with equal attributes. What happens in that situation? Answer: the 3T Uchiha stomps.
Except his sensing isn't superior. Sage Sensing is Sage Sensing. So that alone renders this whole point of yours moot.
Naruto's attack doesn't need to be undetected. It acts as an extension of him. It's like pitting bare fists against someone with the reach of a shortsword. Other than the tail, which he can easily repel with Frog Kata, Naruto always has a reach advantage.
Can Kabuto use chakra scalpels?
But I think he wins...
Reflexes to dodge a EMS Sasuke's Susanoo arrow (when Kakashi couldn't dodge one shot by an almost blind MS Sasuke)...
And Kabuto is a sensor...
Só he will sense Naruto's chakra punches...
