[Discussion] CP9 fights

[Bogard]

One-on-One Versus

Jyabura vs Lucci

Condition: This is Enies Lobby arc Jyabura vs Rob Lucci from 5years before Enies Lobby arc

Gauntlet

Base Kaku takes a CP9 gauntlet

1- Spandam
2- Nero
3- Kalifa
4- Fukuro
5- Kumadori
6- Blueno
7- Base Jabra(without his DF)
8- Base Lucci(without his DF)

Conditions: Kaku fights in base(without swords or DF) in all his fights except in the final battle where he will fight at full power

Timeline condition: Preskip Shabondy Archipelo

No heal after each fight

Where does he stop?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Kaku stops at Jabra.

 

[Bogard]

Kaku stops at Jabra.

Care to explain? And what about the first fight?

 

[LitzSabr]

Not enough info, but if I were to guess, I'd say Lucci.

'Without heals' kaku would stop at Jyabura.

 

[Bogard]

Not enough info, but if I were to guess, I'd say Lucci.

Without heals kaku would stop at Jyabura.

There is enough to me. Jyabura was surprised enies lobby arc Lucci had more doriki than him, implying that he judged he became strong enough to surpass 5years before Rob Lucci in power

 

[Punk Hazard]

Care to explain? And what about the first fight?

I feel like what gives Kaku his edge is his swords. While he does know Rankyaku, Kaku is still a swordsman, so taking away his swords will hinder him greatly. Jabra, on the other hand, purely uses his body. While removing his DF does reduce his strength, it wouldn't be as much of a reduction as taking away both Kaku's DF and sword.

 

[Bogard]

I feel like what gives Kaku his edge is his swords. While he does know Rankyaku, Kaku is still a swordsman, so taking away his swords will hinder him greatly. Jabra, on the other hand, purely uses his body. While removing his DF does reduce his strength, it wouldn't be as much of a reduction as taking away both Kaku's DF and sword.

Even without his swords, Kaku is physically stronger than him and faster as well(known as the "mountain wind") when Jyabura is tekkai reliant. If he relies too much on tekkai, a physical stronger and faster could break his guard in my opinion

 

[LitzSabr]

There is enough to me. Jyabura was surprised enies lobby arc Lucci had more doriki than him, implying that he judged he became strong enough to surpass 5years before Rob Lucci in power

Jyabura was surprised at the fact that Lucci had a doriki of 4000(!!) for it being a high one. It was kaku he was surprised at for having a higher doriki than him.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Even without his swords, Kaku is physically stronger than him and faster as well(known as the "mountain wind") when Jyabura is tekkai reliant. If he relies too much on tekkai, a physical stronger and faster could break his guard in my opinion

I don't see Kaku breaking Jabra's Tekkai, or having better Rokushiki than him. Both Jabra and Kaku trained in Rokushiki, but Kaku also had his training divided between Rokushiki and swordplay. This means, reasonably, Jabra has trained more in Rokushiki, assuming they've spent more or less the same amount of time training. Jabra's skill in Rokushiki is most likely gonna be better than Kaku's, as Jabra trains his Rokushiki skills more than Kaku. Jabra wins in a battle between the two if they're going two to two with Rokushiki.

 

[Bogard]

Jyabura was surprised at the fact that Lucci had a doriki of 4000(!!) for it being a high one. It was kaku he was surprised at for having a higher doriki than him.

He said "forget about Lucci for a moment, you're saying i scored lower than Kaku as well?":

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He wasn't only surprised by Kaku's higher score. He was surprised by Lucci as well as Kaku scoring higher than him.

I don't see Kaku breaking Jabra's Tekkai, or having better Rokushiki than him. Both Jabra and Kaku trained in Rokushiki, but Kaku also had his training divided between Rokushiki and swordplay. This means, reasonably, Jabra has trained more in Rokushiki, assuming they've spent more or less the same amount of time training. Jabra's skill in Rokushiki is most likely gonna be better than Kaku's, as Jabra trains his Rokushiki skills more than Kaku. Jabra wins in a battle between the two if they're going two to two with Rokushiki.

According to Lucci, the strength of your tekkai depends on your physical strength, so Kaku being physically stronger than Jyabura should be able to break his tekkai. And i don't know how you rate who has better rokushiki skills than who. Both displayed great rokushiki skills with Jyabura being tekkai reliant when Kaku's speciality is rankyaku.

 

[Punk Hazard]

He said "forget about Lucci for a moment, you're saying i scored lower than Kaku as well?":

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He wasn't only surprised by Kaku's higher score. He was surprised by Lucci as well as Kaku scoring higher than him.

According to Lucci, the strength of your tekkai depends on your physical strength, so Kaku being physically stronger than Jyabura should be able to break his tekkai. And i don't know how you rate who has better rokushiki skills than who. Both displayed great rokushiki skills with Jyabura being tekkai reliant when Kaku's speciality is rankyaku.

And who said Kaku was even physically stronger than Jabra in the first place? Doriki is a measurement of your fighting power, which includes stamina, speed, durability, reaction time, and physical strength. Jabra could have higher physical strength, but still have a lower Doriki.

I give Jabra better Rokushiki skills because Kaku's training would be split between Rokushiki and swordplay, while Jabra would be able to focus on solely Rokushiki.

 

[Bogard]

And who said Kaku was even physically stronger than Jabra in the first place? Doriki is a measurement of your fighting power, which includes stamina, speed, durability, reaction time, and physical strength. Jabra could have higher physical strength, but still have a lower Doriki.

Didn't you per chance read the manga scan i posted on the same quote? Jyabura already said it. It measures physical strength only:

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I give Jabra better Rokushiki skills because Kaku's training would be split between Rokushiki and swordplay, while Jabra would be able to focus on solely Rokushiki.

And? In 5years, Kaku came from weaker than Jyabura to stronger than him. He is also the youngest of the group. He has always been portrayed as a greater genius, so he can improve his abilities faster even if he split in rokushiki and swordsplay. Besides, it's implied by Kaku that all of them are swordsmen

 

[LitzSabr]

He said "forget about Lucci for a moment, you're saying i scored lower than Kaku as well?":

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He wasn't only surprised by Kaku's higher score. He was surprised by Lucci as well as Kaku scoring higher than him.

It is still ambiguous though. It can also mean that he is surprised at the fact that he is lower than Two other members Now(considering Lucci was above him before). But yeah, the inverse is not impossible.
This fight would definitely end at a high diff for whoever the winner would be, since it is implied that the members who went to water 7 improved at a better rate, meaning the gap between them was smaller before.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Didn't you per chance read the manga scan i posted on the same quote? Jyabura already said it. It measures physical strength only:

You must be registered for see links

And? In 5years, Kaku came from weaker than Jyabura to stronger than him. He is also the youngest of the group. He has always been portrayed as a greater genius, so he can improve his abilities faster even if he split in rokushiki and swordsplay. Besides, it's implied by Kaku that all of them are swordsmen

Ah I was mistaken. Then yeah, base Kaku can most likely break through base Jabra's Tekkai.

Kaku is the only swordsman in CP9. And you're entitled to your standards. For me, if you train more in something than someone, your skill will be better.

 

[Bogard]

It is still ambiguous though. It can also mean that he is surprised at the fact that he is lower than Two other members Now(considering Lucci was above him before). But yeah, the inverse is not impossible.
This fight would definitely end at a high diff for whoever the winner would be, since it is implied that the members who went to water 7 improved at a better rate, meaning the gap between them was smaller before.

Maybe i guess it's unclear. Though i still think it was implied Jyabura was stronger

Ah I was mistaken. Then yeah, base Kaku can most likely break through base Jabra's Tekkai.

Kaku is the only swordsman in CP9. And you're entitled to your standards. For me, if you train more in something than someone, your skill will be better.

I guess i'll agree to disagree then but yes Kaku implied they are all swordsmen when he said he was the best swordsman in the CP9

Best is to illustrate comparison. Comparison with other CP9 swordsmen. That sentence heavily implies CP9 members are swordsmen

 

[Punk Hazard]

Maybe i guess it's unclear. Though i still think it was implied Jyabura was stronger

I guess i'll agree to disagree then but yes Kaku implied they are all swordsmen when he said he was the best swordsman in the CP9

Best is to illustrate comparison. Comparison with other CP9 swordsmen. That sentence heavily implies CP9 members are swordsmen

He could have just been referring to past members of CP9, paralleling how Rob Lucci was called the strongest leader of CP9 ever.

 

[YellowFang]

1- Jyabra... He was too confident that he can get a piece of Lucci[around twice Doriki than his...] implying that Jyabra once held an upper hand in the rivalry...

2- @Blueno... He gets through the first 3 low diff., without healing Fukuru gives him a mid diff., Kumadori mid to high diff. eventually losing high diff. to Blueno... Though, with healing he loses to Jyabra mid-high diff...