[Discussion] Could the alliance even tickle Kaido?

[saw2097]

i should have stopped reading here tbh

Probably a good idea, like everyone says you can't debate or have a civilized conversation anyway.

 

[Punk Hazard]

Probably a good idea, like everyone says you can't debate or have a civilized conversation anyway.

Because ad hominem is a great testament to how well you can debate.

Crocodile never received the same amount of hype Kaido received when building up to his character, so they aren't comparable.

 

[saw2097]

Because ad hominem is a great testament to how well you can debate.

Crocodile never received the same amount of hype Kaido received when building up to his character, so they aren't comparable.

People don't comment on me not being able to debate, well except you right now, yet people constantly mock you, that says enough.

Heck, you insult people and get upset when people treat you the same way.


And you are wrong.

Every big villain is hyped a lot before they fall, Nami actually was willing to leave the crew when she found out they crossed Crocodile and only stayed when exact drawings of them were made.

Crocodile was the first villain that defeated Luffy in the manga, heck he did it twice.

 

[Punk Hazard]

People don't comment on me not being able to debate, well except you right now, yet people constantly mock you, that says enough.

Heck, you insult people and get upset when people treat you the same way.


And you are wrong.

Every big villain is hyped a lot before they fall, Nami actually was willing to leave the crew when she found out they crossed Crocodile and only stayed when exact drawings of them were made.

Crocodile was the first villain that defeated Luffy in the manga, heck he did it twice.

Yes, yes, keep up the personal jabs.
The only people that have ever mocked me were you and Varia, and the latter is well known for throwing temper tantrums and using ad hominem. I don't insult people unless it's warranted, and I've never gotten upset over a debate. Now, if you're done with the personal jabs that don't contribute to the discussion whatsoever, we can get back to debating like we aren't children. Bit of advice: Attacking someone's status as a member or make vague insults like "You can't debate and people don't like you" actually reflect negatively on your ability to discuss more than anything.

Hyped up a lot? Sure. But Crocodile never received the hype of:
1. Being the world's strongest living thing
2. Being able to fight Yonko
3. Being able to slaughter a fighter like Doflamingo with ease
4. Being a YONKO

The best hype Crocodile got was simply being strong and the leader of a two-bit criminal organization. His hype is far inferior to the hype Kaido has received, that goes without saying.

 

[Tomato God]

Yes, yes, keep up the personal jabs.
The only people that have ever mocked me were you and Varia, and the latter is well known for throwing temper tantrums and using ad hominem. I don't insult people unless it's warranted, and I've never gotten upset over a debate. Now, if you're done with the personal jabs that don't contribute to the discussion whatsoever, we can get back to debating like we aren't children. Bit of advice: Attacking someone's status as a member or make vague insults like "You can't debate and people don't like you" actually reflect negatively on your ability to discuss more than anything.

Hyped up a lot? Sure. But Crocodile never received the hype of:
1. Being the world's strongest living thing
2. Being able to fight Yonko
3. Being able to slaughter a fighter like Doflamingo with ease
4. Being a YONKO

The best hype Crocodile got was simply being strong and the leader of a two-bit criminal organization. His hype is far inferior to the hype Kaido has received, that goes without saying.

The same boat as in someone rumored to be monsters (schichibukai) and from their encounter with mihawk, back in east blue ofc, these were, from the readers stand point the "it" power. Further more before scale creep and power creep, these were the hot people the strawhats were looking to take down something that kadio is now for them.

They are very comprable for readers who read chapters as they were released. Also this was before we ever had MF or Skypiea so at the time being a warlord and a logia seemed like the best thing ever.

 

[Punk Hazard]

The same boat as in someone rumored to be monsters (schichibukai) and from their encounter with mihawk, back in east blue ofc, these were, from the readers stand point the "it" power. Further more before scale creep and power creep, these were the hot people the strawhats were looking to take down something that kadio is now for them.

They are very comprable for readers who read chapters as they were released. Also this was before we ever had MF or Skypiea so at the time being a warlord and a logia seemed like the best thing ever.

I understand that. But now we've gotten the full scale of power in the OP verse. We know that Kaido rests among the top of the very top, and there are only going to be a handful people that are stronger than him, if any. With Crocodile, we knew there were gonna be many stronger than him later in the story. We knew Crocodile wasn't gonna be the biggest fish Luffy's gonna have to fry, so the hype isn't very comparable. Sure, maybe in scope of the series of the time, but once you look at the grand scale, Crocodile's hype was trivial compared to Kaido's.

 

[ssjelf]

Yes, yes, keep up the personal jabs.
The only people that have ever mocked me were you and Varia, and the latter is well known for throwing temper tantrums and using ad hominem. I don't insult people unless it's warranted, and I've never gotten upset over a debate. Now, if you're done with the personal jabs that don't contribute to the discussion whatsoever, we can get back to debating like we aren't children. Bit of advice: Attacking someone's status as a member or make vague insults like "You can't debate and people don't like you" actually reflect negatively on your ability to discuss more than anything.

Hyped up a lot? Sure. But Crocodile never received the hype of:
1. Being the world's strongest living thing
2. Being able to fight Yonko
3. Being able to slaughter a fighter like Doflamingo with ease
4. Being a YONKO

The best hype Crocodile got was simply being strong and the leader of a two-bit criminal organization. His hype is far inferior to the hype Kaido has received, that goes without saying.

There is no such thing as a warranted insult on forums. It takes the discussion nowhere.

This is a shonen manga. What applied to croc still applies to kaido. It doesnt matter how strong the opponent or how much hype they ave gotten, when the main character makes it their goal to beat someone then they will beat them. It isn't time yet for luffy to confront kaido. We all know that, but in several arcs it will be.

Way back when before we knew very much about the yonko, the shichibukai were as far away in strength from luffy as the yonko are now. Back then being a shichibukai was one of the strongest positions in one piece. Before even any of the admirals were introduced. Its like this, luffy only barely beat arlong or only barely beat don krieg, and yet several arcs later he still beat croc. Even though the best hype they got was nothing compared to even crocodile. I hope you realize that at some point luffy has to become the strongest in the seas, that isnt gonna happen without him beating a yonko or two.

So saw2097's statment is exactly correct, no matter how hyped the opponent, the MC will win when the author decided to pit him up against him. Thats not saying that luffy would win now, or that luffy can do it alone, or that luffy wont lose once or twice first to some opponents or yonko. Its saying that at some point an arc will happen where the main enemy is kaido and in that arc luffy will beat kaido.

 

[saw2097]

Yes, yes, keep up the personal jabs.
The only people that have ever mocked me were you and Varia, and the latter is well known for throwing temper tantrums and using ad hominem. I don't insult people unless it's warranted, and I've never gotten upset over a debate. Now, if you're done with the personal jabs that don't contribute to the discussion whatsoever, we can get back to debating like we aren't children. Bit of advice: Attacking someone's status as a member or make vague insults like "You can't debate and people don't like you" actually reflect negatively on your ability to discuss more than anything.

Hyped up a lot? Sure. But Crocodile never received the hype of:
1. Being the world's strongest living thing
2. Being able to fight Yonko
3. Being able to slaughter a fighter like Doflamingo with ease
4. Being a YONKO

The best hype Crocodile got was simply being strong and the leader of a two-bit criminal organization. His hype is far inferior to the hype Kaido has received, that goes without saying.

Thank you for proving me right by going to pieces like you always do.

You insult people then throw a tantrum when they insult you back, clearly you believe you are entitled to special treatment.

That is like punching someone and then being shocked and upset when they punch you back.



And like everyone else said, back when Luffy faced Crocodile as far as villains went, Crocodile was the strongest and most intimidating there was at the time.

 

[Punk Hazard]

There is no such thing as a warranted insult on forums. It takes the discussion nowhere.

This is a shonen manga. What applied to croc still applies to kaido. It doesnt matter how strong the opponent or how much hype they ave gotten, when the main character makes it their goal to beat someone then they will beat them. It isn't time yet for luffy to confront kaido. We all know that, but in several arcs it will be.

Way back when before we knew very much about the yonko, the shichibukai were as far away in strength from luffy as the yonko are now. Back then being a shichibukai was one of the strongest positions in one piece. Before even any of the admirals were introduced. Its like this, luffy only barely beat arlong or only barely beat don krieg, and yet several arcs later he still beat croc. Even though the best hype they got was nothing compared to even crocodile. I hope you realize that at some point luffy has to become the strongest in the seas, that isnt gonna happen without him beating a yonko or two.

So saw2097's statment is exactly correct, no matter how hyped the opponent, the MC will win when the author decided to pit him up against him. Thats not saying that luffy would win now, or that luffy can do it alone, or that luffy wont lose once or twice first to some opponents or yonko. Its saying that at some point an arc will happen where the main enemy is kaido and in that arc luffy will beat kaido.

Oh of course there will be a time where Luffy can defeat Kaido. That is not what Saw said though. What he says implies that one can assume that current Luffy can defeat Kaido and the hype that we have that puts Kaido so far above Luffy can be dismissed because Crocodile was hyped to be above Luffy and Luffy defeated him anyways. I'm disagreeing because not only was Kaido's hype better, but Crocodile's was given at a time before we had the full scope of the OPverse's top tier. At this point in the story, we know Yonko is one of the highest ranks, along with Admiral and arguably the Gorosei. We can, at this point in time, put Kaido among the top fighters of the OPverse for certain, there's no reason to doubt that. Crocodile, on the other hand, never received that nature of hype. At the point in the story where he was a threat, the scope did not exist. At that time, it could be reasonably argued that there could be many characters and adversaries after Crocodile who would blow him out of the water. Can the same be said for Kaido?

Thank you for proving me right by going to pieces like you always do.

You insult people then throw a tantrum when they insult you back, clearly you believe you are entitled to special treatment.

That is like punching someone and then being shocked and upset when they punch you back.



And like everyone else said, back when Luffy faced Crocodile as far as villains went, Crocodile was the strongest and most intimidating there was at the time.

Except I never insulted you, or threw a tantrum. You've insulted me in each post you've made so far, pot.

That's true, but at the time, we didn't have a scale of power like we do now. Luffy is inferior to Doflamingo who is inferior to Kaido, we know this. Back in Alabasta, we had no real scale of how far along Crocodile was. We knew he was a Schichibukai, but that was it. We didn't have a middle-man like Doflamingo that showed a scale between Crocodile and Luffy like we do with the scale between Kaido and Luffy. Add that along with the fact that, in this point, we have seen who the top dogs of the series are, the true top dogs, and the horizon of the series' powerscale, hype we receive now are entirely different than the hype of pre-skip opponents, especially those that were in Paradise. Crocodile's hype never established him as one of the top dogs in the food chain, Kaido's did. That is the difference.

 

[ssjelf]

Oh of course there will be a time where Luffy can defeat Kaido. That is not what Saw said though. What he says implies that one can assume that current Luffy can defeat Kaido and the hype that we have that puts Kaido so far above Luffy can be dismissed because Crocodile was hyped to be above Luffy and Luffy defeated him anyways. I'm disagreeing because not only was Kaido's hype better, but Crocodile's was given at a time before we had the full scope of the OPverse's top tier. At this point in the story, we know Yonko is one of the highest ranks, along with Admiral and arguably the Gorosei. We can, at this point in time, put Kaido among the top fighters of the OPverse for certain, there's no reason to doubt that. Crocodile, on the other hand, never received that nature of hype. At the point in the story where he was a threat, the scope did not exist. At that time, it could be reasonably argued that there could be many characters and adversaries after Crocodile who would blow him out of the water. Can the same be said for Kaido?

It doesnt matter if kaidos hype is bigger, because proportionally, crocs hype was the same.

You misinterpreted what he was saying. Saw said this: (see below) I will clarify in red. The red words can replace the blue to fit the parallel saw is drawing here. The red words are mine, the rest is part is his original quote

Once upon a time, Crocodile was in the same position that Kaidou is in now.

Luffy and his crew had trouble against his weakest thugs Doffy and everyone talked about how powerful and invincible Crocodile Kaido was, yet when the time came comes a few arcs later, the Straw Hats brought will bring Crocodile kaido and his top guys to their knees.

The Straw Hats specialize in going up against impossible odds and winning anyway.

Even Law noted that the Straw Hats leave nothing but miracles as they travel.

What he is saying is that right now luffy is basically fighting kaidos henchmen. Kaido is currently hyped as being next to impossible to beat. In a few arcs it will be time to beat kaido. If you draw the parallel to croc, then currently they are fighting the baroque works agents. Saw never said theat luffy could win now. But i guees you could ask and clear up this misunderstanding.

 

[saw2097]

Oh of course there will be a time where Luffy can defeat Kaido. That is not what Saw said though. What he says implies that one can assume that current Luffy can defeat Kaido and the hype that we have that puts Kaido so far above Luffy can be dismissed because Crocodile was hyped to be above Luffy and Luffy defeated him anyways. I'm disagreeing because not only was Kaido's hype better, but Crocodile's was given at a time before we had the full scope of the OPverse's top tier. At this point in the story, we know Yonko is one of the highest ranks, along with Admiral and arguably the Gorosei. We can, at this point in time, put Kaido among the top fighters of the OPverse for certain, there's no reason to doubt that. Crocodile, on the other hand, never received that nature of hype. At the point in the story where he was a threat, the scope did not exist. At that time, it could be reasonably argued that there could be many characters and adversaries after Crocodile who would blow him out of the water. Can the same be said for Kaido?



Except I never insulted you, or threw a tantrum. You've insulted me in each post you've made so far, pot.

That's true, but at the time, we didn't have a scale of power like we do now. Luffy is inferior to Doflamingo who is inferior to Kaido, we know this. Back in Alabasta, we had no real scale of how far along Crocodile was. We knew he was a Schichibukai, but that was it. We didn't have a middle-man like Doflamingo that showed a scale between Crocodile and Luffy like we do with the scale between Kaido and Luffy. Add that along with the fact that, in this point, we have seen who the top dogs of the series are, the true top dogs, and the horizon of the series' powerscale, hype we receive now are entirely different than the hype of pre-skip opponents, especially those that were in Paradise. Crocodile's hype never established him as one of the top dogs in the food chain, Kaido's did. That is the difference.

Yes, after you insulted me.

Like I said before, you clearly believe you deserve special treatment.

And yes you throw tantrums, you are throwing one right now all because someone insulted you back which you can't handle.

And like ssjelf said, you have shown that you don't even understand what my post said, meaning you are simply disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing.

Trying reading a post and thinking about it before making a comment.

 

[Anduril]

Well looking at the comments and the underrating of the alliance in this thread, People think they need another timeskip LOL

I mean yeas Doflamingo is proving to be a hard nut to crack but the guy nearly rules the underworld, what do you expect? If anything Doflamingo is as strong as Kaido's first mate perhaps.

And not to forget everytime the strawhats come out of a battle they keep getting stronger. Luffy's Haki keeps getting stronger too.
Once luffy grinds the shit out off doflamingo he will be quite stronger than before, and his Haki which seemed to be weaker to doflamingo will also be quite stronger.
Also I think Kidd, Hawkins and Apoo will be the one's to take down Big mom. While the Alliance of Luffy + X-drake + Law + Barto + Cavendish will strike Kaidou.

P.S: Most likely shanks would be stopping BB from interfering in these affairs zehahaha.

 

[Mephew D Kensei]

Well its been said that to get to a Yonko u have to go thru the gauntlet of underlings upon underling and then his allied few so all in all that gauntlet will b a training course for the alliance and when Kaido finally stands in front of them we can all agree that they wknt b at the same lvl as now but they wont b Low diffing or having it easy still, its gonna b Lucci vs Luffy multiplied lvl diff anyway you slice it.

The only hope is that with their shenanigans they dont get that quickly on Kaido's sights ad he comes to greet them himself before they r done 'training'.

 

[Olorin]

I honestly think that people are underestimating Luffy, Zoro, Law and Sanji here, imo they could put up a fight against anyone in a 4v1, but keep in mind Kaido has a massive fleet its not just 1 guy

 

[Rikud0 Sennin]

In Wano or Zou they are going to meet up with scopper gaban (3rd strongest of rogers crew) and he will reveal a weakness of kaidos.

link to theory:

You must be registered for see links

 

[Uzumaki Macho]

In Zou they are going to meet up with scoober gaban (3rd strongest of rogers crew) and he will reveal a weakness of kaidos.

Wrong section.

 

[24 12 11 to troll]

In Wano or Zou they are going to meet up with scopper gaban (3rd strongest of rogers crew) and he will reveal a weakness of kaidos.

link to theory:

You must be registered for see links

I've had my hunches...

 

[Bogard]

Free falling from 10,000meters without a single scratch. Dis is gonna be gud

 

[Rokudaime Hokage Naruto]

- Diable jambe Sanji can't budge Doflamingo an inch
- Injection shot and red hawk only cause him superficial damages
- Counter-shock(Law's apparent strongest physical attack) only tickles a "dying" Doflamingo(just after a gamma knife attack he used at the cost of his life span)
- Gear2 tickles a weakened Doflamingo
- Even after all this, he still takes three gear4 attacks without slowing down

If Doflamingo can take all those hits(even in monster form) without slowing down, how could they even hope in scratching Kaido, the strongest beast in the One Piece verse?

The Mugiwaras get stronger with every fight. I wouldn't be surprised if, when Luffy wakes up he finds he haki capacity has increased or something like that.