Quote Originally Posted by Chef Boy RD View Post
Wow! First of all the databook says that the fight could have been differently, not that it would have. Second of all, it still doesn't change the fact that Hiruzen knows no fuuinjutsus to get rid of the Edo Tenseis (if he knew any other ones he wouldn't have used Shiki Fuujin now would he?)
Edit: Wow, either people are purposely being biased, or their reading/comprehension skills are that of a grade schooler. When the databook makes that statement, it is talking about Sandaime's use of the Shiki Fuujin, hence its comment, "...difference between life and death... is age" Orochimaru lived because of Sarutobi's age. Had Sarutobi been younger, then he could have pulled out all of Orochimaru's soul instead of just partial. The scan even concludes and surmises by pretty much saying, "nonetheless, Sarutobi laid down a harsh punishment for Orochimaru by sealing his use of jutsus (paraphrased)".
Lol, no. So many people say this that it isn't even funny anymore. Logic 101: a ninja can only use ninjutsus inside his element. Hiruzen is Doton/Katon, therefore we won't see him using a suiton jutsu. Therefore he hasn't mastered all of Konoha's ninjutsus. Never did it state that he was capable of using all of Konoha's jutsus either, that's just fanboys misinterpreting a statement.
And you said this easily gives him over 1000 jutsus? Name 1000 jutsus in Naruto, canon and non canon alike... Oh wait, you can't huh?
Summary: It would have been the same, the only way for him to get rid of the Edo Tenseis is to seal them. The only Fuuinjutsu he knows is Shiki Fuujin, so he still dies. Even fanboys must understand this most basic logic.
Not really.
What he say's it true it say's it could have, But this implys he has a chance, This alone is huge for a 59year old who is past his prime.
My other posts on this forum explains that he might have other fuuinjutsus, because he has only shown one doesn't mean this man who mastered all leaf jutsu's can only use one sealing tech.
Again he is saying He hasn't show it so he doesn't have it, Even disagreeing with the manga in his 1000+ Jutsu's simply because we cannot name over 1000.
No one questions kakashi's 1000 Jutsu's or so on.
By this logic kakashi's nickname of Copy ninja is completely flawed since we cannot name over 1000 Jutsu's.
Nobody brings up Kakashi's "1000 jutsu" in a debate; I don't think they're that desperate
Once again, Hiruzen was the "God of Shinobi" in his prime. He must be #1 on all top ten lists. Prime Hiruzen > DSM Kabuto, Prime Hiruzen > EMS Madara, Prime Hiruzen > Obito. I've assumed this is the logic you guys use, because that sage22 person said that he believes Prime Hiruzen > DSM Kabuto and Obito.
Even if he has a 1000 more sealing techs, he'll still have to kill or restrain the edos to seal them.
Secondly Oro himself is dam near impossible to kill. Unless Hiruzen has tbb or jinton or a jutsu that rivals them in his 1000 jutsu arsenal, he cant kill Oro. Lastly its bleeding obvious that the databook statement meant Hiruzen would have taken Oro's life instead of just his hands with RDS.
Nobody brings up Kakashi's "1000 jutsu" in a debate; I don't think they're that desperate
Once again, Hiruzen was the "God of Shinobi" in his prime. He must be #1 on all top ten lists. Prime Hiruzen > DSM Kabuto, Prime Hiruzen > EMS Madara, Prime Hiruzen > Obito. I've assumed this is the logic you guys use, because that sage22 person said that he believes Prime Hiruzen > DSM Kabuto and Obito.
People bring it up in kakashi debates, because it is valid hype/feats and adds alot to his versatility, Yet no one has really questioned this, Only Questioned hiruzen's.
I didn't even bring up his "God of shinobi" Title, Why your bringing it up it beyond me. Don't put me or other hiruzen "Supporters" In the same league as everyone else.
Some people that support him are complete idiots and it's up to me and others to do (as blaze calls it) Damage controll on them kind of threads.
Both His and kakashi's 1000+ Jutsu's are Valid Hype/Feats untill Proven otherwise by kishi himself. Trying to deny this is a pathetic attempts to bash them.
Hiruzen by far gets the worst end of most things on this forum, God knows why(no pun intended), thats why i defend him.
He isn't even one of my Fav characters, I just think it's unfair that he gets all this hate for no good reason.
Quote Originally Posted by Chef Boy RD View Post
Wow! First of all the databook says that the fight could have been differently, not that it would have. Second of all, it still doesn't change the fact that Hiruzen knows no fuuinjutsus to get rid of the Edo Tenseis (if he knew any other ones he wouldn't have used Shiki Fuujin now would he?)
Edit: Wow, either people are purposely being biased, or their reading/comprehension skills are that of a grade schooler. When the databook makes that statement, it is talking about Sandaime's use of the Shiki Fuujin, hence its comment, "...difference between life and death... is age" Orochimaru lived because of Sarutobi's age. Had Sarutobi been younger, then he could have pulled out all of Orochimaru's soul instead of just partial. The scan even concludes and surmises by pretty much saying, "nonetheless, Sarutobi laid down a harsh punishment for Orochimaru by sealing his use of jutsus (paraphrased)".
Lol, no. So many people say this that it isn't even funny anymore. Logic 101: a ninja can only use ninjutsus inside his element. Hiruzen is Doton/Katon, therefore we won't see him using a suiton jutsu. Therefore he hasn't mastered all of Konoha's ninjutsus. Never did it state that he was capable of using all of Konoha's jutsus either, that's just fanboys misinterpreting a statement.
And you said this easily gives him over 1000 jutsus? Name 1000 jutsus in Naruto, canon and non canon alike... Oh wait, you can't huh?
Summary: It would have been the same, the only way for him to get rid of the Edo Tenseis is to seal them. The only Fuuinjutsu he knows is Shiki Fuujin, so he still dies. Even fanboys must understand this most basic logic.
Not really.
What he say's it true it say's it could have, But this implys he has a chance, This alone is huge for a 59year old who is past his prime.
My other posts on this thread explains that he might have other fuuinjutsus, because he has only shown one doesn't mean this man who mastered all leaf jutsu's can only use one sealing tech.
Again he is saying He hasn't show it so he doesn't have it, Even disagreeing with the manga in his 1000+ Jutsu's simply because we cannot name over 1000.
No one questions kakashi's 1000 Jutsu's or so on.
By this logic kakashi's nickname of Copy ninja is completely flawed since we cannot name over 1000 Jutsu's.
It's a very vauge statement, it could mean anything.
The worst possible scenario would be a tie.
People bring it up in kakashi debates, because it is valid hype and adds alot to his versatility, Yet no one has really questioned this, Only Questioned hiruzen's.
I didn't even bring up his "God of shinobi" Title, Why your bringing it up it beyond me. Don't put me or other hiruzen "Supporters" In the same league as everyone else.
Some people that support him are complete idiots and it's up to me and others to do (as blaze calls it) Damage controll on them kind of threads.
Both His and kakashi's 1000+ Jutsu's are Valid Hype/Feats untill Proven otherwise by kishi himself. Trying to deny this is a pathetic attempts to bash them.
No its not. Not if you examine it closely and apply a bit of logic and common sense.
What's the picture underneath the statement. That's right its a picture of Hiruzen sealing Oro's hand. Then right after that statement it says the punishment Sandaime gave Oro was the severest. It doesnt get much obvious than this
That whole paragraph was about Hiruzen's use of RDS.
No its not. Not if you examine it closely and apply a bit of logic and common sense.
What's the picture underneath the statement. That's right its a picture of Hiruzen sealing Oro's hand. Then right after that statement it says the punishment Sandaime gave Oro was the severest. It doesnt get much obvious than this
That whole paragraph was about Hiruzen's use of RDS.
Even if he has a 1000 more sealing techs, he'll still have to kill or restrain the edos to seal them.
Secondly Oro himself is dam near impossible to kill. Unless Hiruzen has tbb or jinton or a jutsu that rivals them in his 1000 jutsu arsenal, he cant kill Oro. Lastly its bleeding obvious that the databook statement meant Hiruzen would have taken Oro's life instead of just his hands with RDS.
Sorry to be the one to break this to you but that won't cut it. Remember what happened when Gaara tried to seal Trollkage when wasnt completely restrained? For an edo to be sealed they have to completely immobilized or killed.
It's a very vauge statement, it could mean anything.
The worst possible scenario would be a tie.
People bring it up in kakashi debates, because it is valid hype/feats and adds alot to his versatility, Yet no one has really questioned this, Only Questioned hiruzen's.
I didn't even bring up his "God of shinobi" Title, Why your bringing it up it beyond me. Don't put me or other hiruzen "Supporters" In the same league as everyone else.
Some people that support him are complete idiots and it's up to me and others to do (as blaze calls it) Damage controll on them kind of threads.
Both His and kakashi's 1000+ Jutsu's are Valid Hype/Feats untill Proven otherwise by kishi himself. Trying to deny this is a pathetic attempts to bash them.
Hiruzen by far gets the worst end of most things on this forum (no pun intended), God knows why, thats why i defend him.
He isn't even one of my Fav characters, I just think it's unfair that he gets all this hate for no good reason.
I don't hate him. I didn't even particularly like Hashirama until I started debating about him. Even you know who my favorite character is, and he's my ONLY favorite, not to mention I had to give up debating on him. He just won't beat Hashirama, not to mention Edo Hashirama, with Edo Tobirama and Orochimaru. I do believe he did well for his age, but this 'Prime' Hiruzen thing is ridiculous. I mean, if 'Prime' Hiruzen was that strong, what about 'Prime' Onoki? I mean, it's obvious that Onoki's superior to everything we've seen Hiruzen do, and they've both been affected by old age. So, it just doesn't add up.
Here's multiple ways 'Prime' Hiruzen loses:
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It's obvious that Orochimaru wouldn't want anybody interfering with his fight with 'Prime' Hiruzen, if he didn't want anyone interfering when Hiruzen was 69 years old; so Orochimaru would likely have a barrier set up like he did against Hiruzen.
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Edo Hashirama does this in the enclosed space; it takes up the entire battlefield within the barrier "in an instant", Hiruzen can't get away due to the barrier, gets knocked unconscious, and killed before the Will of Fire allows him to regain consciousness.
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If that doesn't work, a good 25 of Edo Hashirama's clones can cause Hiruzen to waste chakra.
Sorry to be the one to break this to you but that won't cut it. Remember what happened when Gaara tried to seal Trollkage when wasnt completely restrained? For an edo to be sealed they have to completely immobilized or killed.
Even without being an edo, Hashirama can heal, so no
You cant heal your leg if its been cut off. You can stop the bleeding but you would have no leg. Katsuyu can stick it back like what she wanted to do with Tsunade. But Hashirama doesnt have Katsuyu
I don't hate him. I didn't even particularly like Hashirama until I started debating about him. Even you know who my favorite character is, and he's my ONLY favorite, not to mention I had to give up debating on him. He just won't beat Hashirama, not to mention Edo Hashirama, with Edo Tobirama and Orochimaru. I do believe he did well for his age, but this 'Prime' Hiruzen thing is ridiculous. I mean, if 'Prime' Hiruzen was that strong, what about 'Prime' Onoki? I mean, it's obvious that Onoki's superior to everything we've seen Hiruzen do, and they've both been affected by old age. So, it just doesn't add up.
Here's multiple ways 'Prime' Hiruzen loses:
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It's obvious that Orochimaru wouldn't want anybody interfering with his fight with 'Prime' Hiruzen, if he didn't want anyone interfering when Hiruzen was 69 years old; so Orochimaru would likely have a barrier set up like he did against Hiruzen.
You must be registered for see images
Edo Hashirama does this in the enclosed space; it takes up the entire battlefield within the barrier "in an instant", Hiruzen can't get away due to the barrier, gets knocked unconscious, and killed before the Will of Fire allows him to regain consciousness.
You must be registered for see images
If that doesn't work, a good 25 of Edo Hashirama's clones can cause Hiruzen to waste chakra.
You cant heal your leg if its been cut off. You can stop the bleeding but you would have no leg. Katsuyu can stick it back like what she wanted to do with Tsunade. But Hashirama doesnt have Katsuyu
You obviously have no idea how Tsunade's healing works. She can heal from any injury. She can even replace her internal organ.
Hashirama's healing is said to be on the same level. And lastly if he wasn't an edo, he would have noticed the paper bomb.
Well there is still no great proof, but on your pic, he says the previous hokage(who was Minato), that means the scroll was made when Hiruzen wasn't in his prime
Well there is still no great proof, but on your pic, he says the previous hokage(who was Minato), that means the scroll was made when Hiruzen wasn't in his prime
You obviously weren't paying attention to what I was saying.
Orochimaru needed assurance that nobody would interrupt his fight with Hiruzen, and that assurance was the barrier ninjutsu.
If Orochimaru doesn't have that assurance, the fight won't occur in the first place.
Well there is still no great proof, but on your pic, he says the previous hokage(who was Minato), that means the scroll was made when Hiruzen wasn't in his prime
