Long story short, the only way Itachi is going to beat hiruzen is if he uses susanoo and even then hiruzen can DRS him. Hiruzen can counter amaterasu, tsukuyomi, izanami, Itachi's water style jutsu, fire style jutsus, and shurriken techniques. Since this is hiruzen before the Massacre which was roughly 5 years before the series, his chakra levels are not like they were in oro/hashi/tobi fight.
How hiruzen would defend against the MS. (this is about old hiruzen I never argue using prime)
Amaterasu
We have seen sasuke (not even running fast) outrun amaterasu for a short bit.
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We also saw how he used a substitution jutsu (oro style) to escape as well.
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Therefore hiruzen has two options.
He can either use Doton mudslide barrier (while running to block it
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(And yes it is quick enough, it takes him one hand seal, not to mention the second it hits the ground it starts forming as seen in the picture.
Or he can use a simple substitution jutsu as we have seen it work prior.
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(And please don't give me that whole he can't use it prior crap we saw sakura use it prior to being hit and it instantly turned into a log in the forest of death.
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Susanoo
Susanoo is a manifestation of the users chakra. This is why they have different colours. Itachi's is red, sasuke's is purple ect. It requires Yin to shape it (tsukuyomi) and Yang to create a physical appearance (amaterasu).
We have seen how DRS can latch onto manifestations of chakra (the bijuu are all manifestations of chakra.)
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Therefore since susanoo is a manifestation of the users chakra it can be latched onto by DRS. Since I have brought clarity to the situation, I will show how hiruzen defeats this technique.
1-DRS can travel distances and go through chakra as we saw earlier with Minato. Therefore it can travel through sussanoo and latch onto itachi. Note this is one instance where it can work as long as Hiruzen is not in front of it as Itachi's Yata shield will block it.
2-Hiruzen can manipulate earth so it does lead to possibilities of removing him from susanoo. However that's all speculation and not concrete.
Tsukuyomi
Hiruzen summons emna to break him free if itachi wish's it to be longer then a second. Tsukuyomi won't knock you out forever, as we saw sasuke recover from it quite quickly against itachi.
I don't care to debate every technique but don't go around saying hiruzen cannot counter susanoo, amaterasu, tsukuyomi as it's simply not accurate.
Also ten ten > juubi as there's nothing in the manga stating she can't xd.
But long story short it's a draw if Itachi uses susanoo unless hiruzen outlast him (which is quite plausible)
Well your logic on Amaterasu doesn't make sense considering the fact that Itachi wasn't trying to hit him, pretty sure he was trying to burn the fire jutsu Sasuke used. Substition MIGHT work. I always thought that it was a good counter to Ama to,
-Amaterasu will be everywhere, doubtfull that Hiruzen could escape from.
Susano: Ill give you that one, don't see why not, still ends up at a draw.
Tsukyuimo: (i know i didnt spell it right) Enma can't breakout of Tsuki, it's instant, by the time he realizes Hiruzen is in it, it will be over
-Hiruzen can not look into his eyes, but thats a big handicap, also the ring
-The whole Sasuke getting out of it, Itachi literally states only an Uchiha w/ the same blood can break out of it.
oh man .... it was a weakened handicapped oro who was desperate for a body and it wasn't really a fight, please don't skip an important point like this (people overrate itachi's level way to much). now to answer your question, i doubt he can defeat the old hiruzen (hiruzen is too much), and the prime hiruzen would EAT itachi.
AHAHAHA here you go, just because you can't believe whats in front of your eyes your understanding statements the way you want, but it was clear bro. btw itachi is not concerned about one shinobi (remember kakashi and the others, such a good guy) he was just there for sasuke and his mission to capture naruto. U_U don't even start this
AHAHAHA here you go, just because you can't believe whats in front of your eyes your understanding statements the way you want, but it was clear bro. btw itachi is not concerned about one shinobi (remember kakashi and the others, such a good guy) he was just there for sasuke so don't even start this and his mission to capture naruto. U_U
Itachi told kisame that he would lose to jiraiya because he knew that if he said he could win, kisame would find it suspicious that he didn't just kill jiraiya and take naruto immediately. The same goes for Kakashi, Kurenai, and Asuma. Do you really think Itachi and Kisame couldn't take them? Even current kakashi, asuma, and kurenai would lose to kisame and itachi. Itachi told kisame that it was time to leave so that he wouldn't have to kill anyone because he was still an ally to the leaf.
Well your logic on Amaterasu doesn't make sense considering the fact that Itachi wasn't trying to hit him, pretty sure he was trying to burn the fire jutsu Sasuke used. Substition MIGHT work. I always thought that it was a good counter to Ama to,
-Amaterasu will be everywhere, doubtfull that Hiruzen could escape from.
Susano: Ill give you that one, don't see why not, still ends up at a draw.
Tsukyuimo: (i know i didnt spell it right) Enma can't breakout of Tsuki, it's instant, by the time he realizes Hiruzen is in it, it will be over
-Hiruzen can not look into his eyes, but thats a big handicap, also the ring
-The whole Sasuke getting out of it, Itachi literally states only an Uchiha w/ the same blood can break out of it.
Sasuke wanted to get hit by amaterasu so he could go back underground.
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So even if Itachi didn't want to hit him, sasuke wanted to get hit.
I agree with substitution. It's been shown to work for nearly everything lol.
Tsukuyomi - When Itachi uses Tsukuyomi he receives backlash.
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so using it twice in a row isn't possible for Itachi. He used it once against Sasuke and couldn't dodge his shurriken, nor could he keep up with sasuke while under ground afterwards.
Also the ring is no big issue as emna can break him out of it or vice versa. (he has displayed the ability to manipulate chakra EX henge no jutsu)
Also sasuke did not break out of tsukuyomi on his own. The cursed seal has a little bit of orochimaru's chakra and he focused that into his eye thus breaking tsukuyomi.
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Genjutsu requires another individual to disturb your chakra and awakening you and that's what sasuke by utilizing orochimaru's chakra via curse seal.
Sasuke wanted to get hit by amaterasu so he could go back underground.
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So even if Itachi didn't want to hit him, sasuke wanted to get hit.
I agree with substitution. It's been shown to work for nearly everything lol.
Tsukuyomi - When Itachi uses Tsukuyomi he receives backlash.
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so using it twice in a row isn't possible for Itachi. He used it once against Sasuke and couldn't dodge his shurriken, nor could he keep up with sasuke while under ground afterwards.
Also the ring is no big issue as emna can break him out of it or vice versa. (he has displayed the ability to manipulate chakra EX henge no jutsu)
Also sasuke did not break out of tsukuyomi on his own. The cursed seal has a little bit of orochimaru's chakra and he focused that into his eye thus breaking tsukuyomi.
To be fair. I don't think that's how sasuke broke tsukuyomi, otherwise zetsu would have stated it, seeing as how he knew that sasuke's substitution was orochimaru's and that the Yamata dragon was orochimaru's as well, yet zetsu and itachi both mention that sasuke himself broke the tsukuyomi as well as Itachi claiming that sasuke could in part one.
AHAHAHA here you go, just because you can't believe whats in front of your eyes your understanding statements the way you want, but it was clear bro. btw itachi is not concerned about one shinobi (remember kakashi and the others, such a good guy) he was just there for sasuke and his mission to capture naruto. U_U don't even start this
To be fair. I don't think that's how sasuke broke it, otherwise zetsu would have stated it, seeing as how he knew that sasuke's substitution was orochimaru's and that the Yamata dragon was orochimaru's as well, yet zetsu and itachi both mention that sasuke himself broke the tsukuyomi as well as Itachi claiming that sasuke could in part one.
To be fair. I don't think that's how sasuke broke it, otherwise zetsu would have stated it, seeing as how he knew that sasuke's substitution was orochimaru's and that the Yamata dragon was orochimaru's as well, yet zetsu and itachi both mention that sasuke himself broke the tsukuyomi as well as Itachi claiming that sasuke could in part one.
The fact of the matter is we saw sasuke utilize the cursed seal (orochimaru's chakra) and then the genjutsu broken immediately. Also the cursed seal destroyed the Itachi clone holding him as well
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So it's very evident the cursed seal had something to do with him breaking it. Itachi only stated "Only another sharingan user with the same blood (and kkg in the anime) could defeat me and turns out sasuke is the same blood and has a KKG (blaze release)
of course he wud have killed him easily as hiruzen lost to oro and itachi was much powerful than oro. he wud have killed obito too if he was in his prime.
Itachi told kisame that he would lose to jiraiya because he knew that if he said he could win, kisame would find it suspicious that he didn't just kill jiraiya and take naruto immediately. The same goes for Kakashi, Kurenai, and Asuma. Do you really think Itachi and Kisame couldn't take them? Even current kakashi, asuma, and kurenai would lose to kisame and itachi. Itachi told kisame that it was time to leave so that he wouldn't have to kill anyone because he was still an ally to the leaf.
so you wan't me to ignore what was clear and stated by itachi himself (no hidden motives or any later explanations) and believe the stuff you just said ..... itachi doesn't care about the life of one or two shinobi and no itachi and kisame cannot take on kakashi, kurenai, asuma and gai. listen now don't try to understand this the way you want too when it was clear (don't twist it when nothing was said or happened that even implied what you were talking about) its was a simple i can't beat him RUN i don't wana risk my life (if itachi had anything on jiraiya he wouldn't have ran). blame kishi not me .....
Sasuke wanted to get hit by amaterasu so he could go back underground.
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So even if Itachi didn't want to hit him, sasuke wanted to get hit.
I agree with substitution. It's been shown to work for nearly everything lol.
Tsukuyomi - When Itachi uses Tsukuyomi he receives backlash.
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so using it twice in a row isn't possible for Itachi. He used it once against Sasuke and couldn't dodge his shurriken, nor could he keep up with sasuke while under ground afterwards.
Also the ring is no big issue as emna can break him out of it or vice versa. (he has displayed the ability to manipulate chakra EX henge no jutsu)
Also sasuke did not break out of tsukuyomi on his own. The cursed seal has a little bit of orochimaru's chakra and he focused that into his eye thus breaking tsukuyomi.
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Genjutsu requires another individual to disturb your chakra and awakening you and that's what sasuke by utilizing orochimaru's chakra via curse seal.
Yah subs would work, I agree, but how do we know Hiruzen will be lucky enough to slip through a roof like Sasuke, what if he subs. right into more Ama?
The ring genjutsu, would just be a splitsecond thing, just giving itachi a chance to attack
still don't think enma can break him out of tsuki though
Side note: Why do people never bring up Substitutions in and Uchiha Vs Thread
