Conflict: Hashirama's flashback vs Onoki's flashback

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When you compare the flashbacks of Hashirama vs Onoki, something does not seem to add up. According to Onoki's memory even when Madara was a member of the Leaf he hated Hashirama to the point where hearing his name was enough to enrage him, yet according to Hashirama's memory, even as enemies Madara respected Hashirama & through building the village the two began to rekindle their friendship, even upon his defection from Konoha, Madara openly admitted his trust & respect for Hashirama, which is the complete opposite of the Madara portrayed by Onoki's flashback. Is this another notorious plot-hole from Kishimoto, or will this come into play in later chapters & Madara was truly always sinister in character?

Please share your thoughts.shodaimeicon:
 

Uchiha Josephus

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The latest manga chapter makes it seem like they decided to create a hokage, chose Hashirama, and Madara left all in one day.

However I believe a lot more time passed between these events. Probably not years, but at least weeks to months. Plenty of time for Madara to talk to the Uchiha and be rejected.

That said, I believe Oonoki's recollection was after he (Madara) left Konoha. So at that point he had "turned evil" and thus didn't want to hear the name "Senju" anymore. Oonoki was confused because he thought the Uchiha and Senju had an agreement (which they did!), but Madara was no longer part of it.
 

nj tandi

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Madara grew to hate him in exile? Plausible. But still respected him. As he himself once stated.
 

MannySoopa

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not really a plot hole...folks have to realize to stop taking 2nd hand perspectives as gospel...if Oonoki wasnt there...how would he know exactly how Madara acted around Hashi

and who is to say that Madara didn't display this hatred of Hashi when he wasnt around Hashi
 

thegame

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A. Madara could easily have done it while being part of Konoha, in order to create enemies for Konoha, before he would leave the village.

B. If he did it right after leaving, it would still take time, before such word would reach other countries. Besides, it would not benefit Konoha letting people know right away.

C. Plot hole in matter of behavior? Well yes, he does act differently now, and it either seems like he has huge personality issues, or that he just keeps changing his mood. Perhaps he will find out more about Hashi later to give him a different view of him. But you could clearly see on the last page, that he had gone mad, so no wonder with the issues. He is just insane U_U
 
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Well ther from 2 completely different villages so its jus natural for onoiks story to miss a couple details
 

BazzBee

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:mad:_@::mad:_@::mad:_@::mad:_@::mad:_@::mad:_@::mad:_@::mad:_@::mad:_@::mad:_@::mad:_@:
 

yakotseal

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I dont think its a plot hole. Oonoki's flashback may have been at some point between when hashirama became hokage and madara left the village. Madara was probably nursing a quiet hatred for hashi already and he kinda lost it when Oonki mentioned the name..
 

IKSOKRIPS

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Timeline in my Sig! Check it out! :yeah: :cool:
 
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Sorry previous posters but I have to disagree. IMO it's more of a psychological aspect Kishi is showing us through the "various" flashback differences that, "When searching for the truth of a situation, all perspectives (no matter how different) are equally valid."

In other words the truth of a person or events of nature as recalled by the people who experience it, are all going to embelish their points of view (as well as personailites and moral operandoms.) thus creating many different versions of the same story.... We as the readers must discern the truth from the collective.....(especially if you take to heart the dialogue between Hashi and Madara in the lastest issue about yin and yang (opposing forces co-operating = peaceful stability)). I say take to heart as the two primary players are Hashi and Madara, with everyone else offering their encounters and recollection of the transpiring events that led up to those individual's need to explain their knowledge of the fore-mention two primary players.

This is also why I am under the impression that after Hashi finishes his flashback, we will get Madara's side (thus fluffing the series for a few more months and prolonging the ending).....Even though I feel we already know Madara's side from Tobi's rendition of the tales of Madara.....
If that doesn't happen after Hashi finsihes his flashback (answering Sasuke's question) then I will be assured in my understanding that the truth Kishi wants us to discern is the truth of Madara's character (as it seems to be the focus of the flashbacks pertaining to him and the purity of his evilness (( as is the same for the developement of our main antagonist Sasuke ...is he good ,will he be bad and if so how bad ((( and as for all the other flashbacks have been used to inform about another individual or the developement of infrastructure for the narutoverse))).

So, while I disagree with the other posters, practicing my own advise I speculate that Kishi may be doing it all as we sse "it" or we are people who use our passion to invest a little to much in to something that doesnt exist......if I may relate to the thread starter and their reference to love being lethal, "We want the people who inspire and enetertain us to be more sophisticated then ourselves, but under scrutiny we realize that we are all human,,,, and therefore imperfect"......So maybe Kishi is not trying to teach us something about truth, or waisting our time by prolonging a story that should have ended by now, or that we are all individuals that have to much free time, or that it is a plot hole because the wirter has a lack of continuity or skills in making and executing outlines and story longivity....
 

RasenUchihaChaos

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The latest manga chapter makes it seem like they decided to create a hokage, chose Hashirama, and Madara left all in one day.

However I believe a lot more time passed between these events. Probably not years, but at least weeks to months. Plenty of time for Madara to talk to the Uchiha and be rejected.

That said, I believe Oonoki's recollection was after he (Madara) left Konoha. So at that point he had "turned evil" and thus didn't want to hear the name "Senju" anymore. Oonoki was confused because he thought the Uchiha and Senju had an agreement (which they did!), but Madara was no longer part of it.
Wait could this mean madara caused the 1st shinobi war
 

Uchiha Samater

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okay ill break this dosn for theee err i wana say slower, but thats not right, errmmm the more blinded members of the base


Before you ask yourselves about the link between Onoki's memory of Madara and Madara leaving the leaf, Madara in onoki's memory warned him from the leaf, whose to say that this was prior to him warning his Uchiha clan about Tobirama?
ill even throw my own personal opinion, and say it was after the period when he was eavesdropping on the brothers and before he showed Hashirama the tablet

Question when did Madara decide to leave the leave, what was the time frame between Hashirama asking him to be kage and the people choosing Hashi and ressurecting a giant stone face in the mountain and how long did this all take?

please remember this is an account not the full story, hashi is blowing past the unnecessarys here, and he also did not know what Madara would do on his own.

Another question is when did Madara decipher the tablet? before the alliance, after the alliance?

Madara it seems when he left, was already at peace with his "evil" decision, which can be argued that there was a time period during with him deciding on the path he decided he rejected everyone including Hashi, was no longer in blind rage as he had a plan

my point being is you can argue left and right, but its a bit ignorant to shout plot hole if you dont understand, step back and analyse the story

hell take the story the way you want it, but it IS cohesive
 

6PathsofKami

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Defo not a plot hole, others have explained here why.
 

r00r

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Hashirama was already wearing the standard Hokage outfit. There had to been sometime for them to decide on the clothing and make it, couldnt of happened in one day
 

GsNp

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Not a plot hole in the least, you're perception of it is your own, but it is incorrect, others have stated why it is not a plot hole.
 

aznflyer14

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I dont think there is a plot hole. Remember that Madara is embodiment of the "curse of hatred". He needs to have a hatred in order to sustain his sharingan.
 
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