Confirmed, non-debatable FACTS; that are still denied by some......

[iSpeak the Truth]

Madara Uchiha , "People called him the ultimate Shinobi"

Dan, "Only Hashirama can beat him".

Sarutobi is already debatable

Madara can't be the strongest, if he thinks someone else has the power to stop him.


Ok you make no god damn sense............. If itachi is invincible.. how the hell is Madara the strongest being????? YOU MAKE NO SENSE.

You make no damn sense!

 

[KingHashirama]

You make no damn sense!

LIES. I'm not the one calling someone invincible.. and then calling someone else the strongest......

 

[iSpeak the Truth]

LIES. I'm not the one calling someone invincible.. and then calling someone else the strongest......

Strongest doesn't mean he's invincible! Get a damn dictionary! They are not the same thing!

 

[u wanna die]

ur points is all subjective

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

I agree with all besides the Hiruzen part. Hashirama would destroy him.

 

[Piratefish]

I am honestly unsure whether you mean all of these, mean none of them, or swap between the two between statements. I myself certainly don't agree with all of them.

"This Susanoo is destruction-incarnate, everyone who has seen it, has died."

This proves Uchiha Madara had the Perfect Susanoo long before he attained the Rinnegan, hence...his EMS version is all that he needs to stabilise and Perfect his Susanoo.

Actually, most everyone who's even met Madara in life is now dead, but that's beside the point.

Hashirama won. That means PS wasn't available in their great battle, or that Madara is lying. Timeline after the (1st) clash at the Valley of the End is uncertain at best. We've no real evidence either way, as the WORLD went on believing Madara was dead after VotE, and PS is NOT stealthy. Using it and remaining undetected seems HIGHLY unlikely.

"Yata no Kagami for defense, Totsuka no Tsurugi for offense, he is invincible".

Black Zetsu, the will of Uchiha Madara himself, who pertains all of his knowledge and original decisions, deemed the combination of those two weapons as invincible, hence.....the bearer of those weapons is invincible.

If you fight on Itachi's terms, sure. He's fast, skilled, smart and strong, and with CRAZY STRONG tools... But they have limits.

His stamina will not last, with the Susano'o active. His Sword is unblockable, but dodgeable, and not especially long-ranged. Susano'o is slow as well. Retreat and let him follow 'till he dies of exhaustion. If not...

His Shield will not cover every angle: sufficiently powerful attacks (Asa Kujaku and the Raiden come to mind, if he fights the Rivals, for example) from in front AND behind him will defeat him.

In his own words: Every jutsu has a weakness.

"I told you not to open your mouth so easily! You're just words and no actions, what someone like you says is worth nothing!"

Yes he has a great personality, yes he tries his very best, yes he is loyal to his village and yes.....he is super smart and elite! That still doesn't change the fact that Kakashi has never kept his word or promises, whether due to extremely bad luck, hesitation or pure lack of chance......Kakashi's words are not worth much.

He has always served the village, which is more than many have. Even those who faced less hardships than him. So his word is not worthless. And his nindo is among the most difficult of all.

"I don't let my teammates die." - Not easy to uphold, whether you're a twelve-year-old infiltrating enemy territory during a war or fighting A and S-rank shinobi. He has managed pretty well after Obito, as even Rin is arguable: She may have been no true comrade near the end.

See here:

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"He was known as the God of shinobi!"

Even though we haven't seen it, and many people don't want to believe it, Sarutobi Hiruzen, in his prime, was the strongest shinobi to have ever lived. I have put this fact here because Kishimoto himself has confirmed it and it is certainly believable seeing that a 70 year old Hiruzen who had lost most of his strength and chakra to his old age, sealed away 2 former Hokage, Senju Hashirama and Senju Tobirama, took away all of Orochimaru's jutsu, putting a dent in his plans for years, and leaving him whimpering and screaming like a child, at 70! Edo Madara is not included in this because he is just a soul wrapped in dust and earth and not a living breathing human.

I am inclined to agree, though how strong the Edo Senju brothers were is debateable. His only mistake as Hokage was caring too much, and letting Orochimaru live.

Edo Madara is the strongest being!

Whether living or dead, natural or abnormal, he has unlimited chakra, an indestructible and regenerative exterior, Mokuton, EMS, Rinnegan, Perfect Susanoo, years upon years of battle experience........Edo Madara is the strongest thus far and there is no denying it!

Naruto, if fighting SMART, could take him down. As could many others, though they'd sacrifice MUCH to achieve it.

Arguably there are many ninja that COULD solo Edo Madara: Naruto (if he used tactics, like a triple-pronged Bijuudama rush), Obito, Gai (Death Gate), Nagato, Itachi, Minato, (Prime) Hiruzen, Kabuto, Hashirama, possibly even Sasuke. Not saying any of these WOULD be able to

Here we have Itachi as well, which makes two of your non-debateable FACTS directly in conflict. How can that be?

 

[KidGamer65]

What?! Where were you when Madara poured his will and knowledge inside white Zetsu and turned him black?

I meant that he does have his will but not his knowledge.

 

[iSpeak the Truth]

I meant that he does have his will but not his knowledge.

-__- He knows too much not to! Remember Sasuke vs Itachi arc in the manga and how everyone was like how does he know so much? Yeah.....

 

[KidGamer65]

-__- He knows too much not to! Remember Sasuke vs Itachi arc in the manga and how everyone was like how does he know so much? Yeah.....

So he knows a lot so he automatically has Madara's knowledge? Regardless, its still a hyperbole so it doesn't really matter to me if he has his knowledge or not.

 

[slaton02]

Did Hashirama pour his will inside a Zetsu and say "consider it as though half of it is me"? And does white Zetsu know about Senju techniques and age old weapons like black Zetsu knows about Uchiha techniques, Yata and Totsuka? Didn't think so....

Iruka was reflecting on Hiruzens title of "God of shinobi"! Why is it so hard to understand that? He didn't make it up on the spot, Hiruzen was given that title for his power in his prime!
Quit with this 1 person crap and get a dictionary for the meaning of the word "title"!

Oh, I didn't know black zetsu and Madara shared the same mind and could both use the same techs like susano'o my bad, never thought black zetsu was a madara clone.

Like the other guy said you makes no damn sense lol. invincible guy and god of shiniobi yet someone else is the strongest xd

 

[iSpeak the Truth]

So he knows a lot so he automatically has Madara's knowledge? Regardless, its still a hyperbole so it doesn't really matter to me if he has his knowledge or not.

Yes it does! Know why? Because before Madara touched him, white Zetsu knew jack shit and poop!! And during Sasuke vs Itachi white Zetsu was the one asking all his questions from his black counterpart about every single thing!
Exactly! So don't try and dictate your personal opinions to the rest of us please. Cuz it matters to others and me.

 

[iSpeak the Truth]

Oh, I didn't know black zetsu and Madara shared the same mind and could both use the same techs like susano'o my bad, never thought black zetsu was a madara clone.

Like the other guy said you makes no damn sense lol. invincible guy and god of shiniobi yet someone else is the strongest xd

-___- ever heard of a dictionary pal? Invincible did not = strongest last time I checked.

I mentioned Edo Madara in the Hiruzen section, you obviously need to learn how to pay attention when you read too!

 

[KidGamer65]

Yes it does! Know why? Because before Madara touched him, white Zetsu knew jack shit and poop!! And during Sasuke vs Itachi white Zetsu was the one asking all his questions from his black counterpart about every single thing!
Exactly! So don't try and dictate your personal opinions to the rest of us please. Cuz it matters to others and me.

No one is trying to dictate anything, read my post before you reply to it, it doesn't matter to me because regardless, it still shows that Itachi being invincible is hyperbole I don't care if you guys believe it or not, cause my main point is that him being invincible is hyperbole nothing else.

 

[iSpeak the Truth]

I am honestly unsure whether you mean all of these, mean none of them, or swap between the two between statements. I myself certainly don't agree with all of them.



Actually, most everyone who's even met Madara in life is now dead, but that's beside the point.

Hashirama won. That means PS wasn't available in their great battle, or that Madara is lying. Timeline after the (1st) clash at the Valley of the End is uncertain at best. We've no real evidence either way, as the WORLD went on believing Madara was dead after VotE, and PS is NOT stealthy. Using it and remaining undetected seems HIGHLY unlikely.

Hashirama has died hasn't he?

If you fight on Itachi's terms, sure. He's fast, skilled, smart and strong, and with CRAZY STRONG tools... But they have limits.

His stamina will not last, with the Susano'o active. His Sword is unblockable, but dodgeable, and not especially long-ranged. Susano'o is slow as well. Retreat and let him follow 'till he dies of exhaustion. If not...

His Shield will not cover every angle: sufficiently powerful attacks (Asa Kujaku and the Raiden come to mind, if he fights the Rivals, for example) from in front AND behind him will defeat him.

In his own words: Every jutsu has a weakness.

Itachi is invincible while shrouded in his Susanoo.

He has always served the village, which is more than many have. Even those who faced less hardships than him. So his word is not worthless. And his nindo is among the most difficult of all.

"I don't let my teammates die." - Not easy to uphold, whether you're a twelve-year-old infiltrating enemy territory during a war or fighting A and S-rank shinobi. He has managed pretty well after Obito, as even Rin is arguable: She may have been no true comrade near the end.

See here:

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Kakashi has never kept a single promise. Including his nindo from the very first time he even mentioned it! He got caught in the water prison and Naruto and Sasuke had to bail him out.
That is just one example.

Naruto, if fighting SMART, could take him down. As could many others, though they'd sacrifice MUCH to achieve it.



Here we have Itachi as well, which makes two of your non-debateable FACTS directly in conflict. How can that be?

I repeat....EMS, Rinnegan, Perfect Susanoo, Hashirama, unlimited chakra, undying body= strongest

 

[Piratefish]

Hashirama has died hasn't he?

Not while fighting Madara at the VotE. So his EMS may not have been enough to stabilize Susano'o, and if it was then PS just wasn't enough. Madara MAY have been the one to kill Hashirama, but that happened long after.

Most of Madara's contemporaries have died, even he himself.

Itachi is invincible while shrouded in his Susanoo.

The shield doesn't cover everything. And if so, doesn't that mean he could beat Madara while in Susano'o? One of the two must be wrong.

Kakashi has never kept a single promise. Including his nindo from the very first time he even mentioned it! He got caught in the water prison and Naruto and Sasuke had to bail him out.
That is just one example.

He has not failed in his promise to serve the village unto death, he can and HAS. Name one person who served under him in battle who died in that fight since the series started.

I repeat....EMS, Rinnegan, Perfect Susanoo, Hashirama, unlimited chakra, undying body= strongest

Strongest doesn't mean undefeatable. Can he defeat Itachi in Susano'o, Kakashi Kamui-sniping, or Gai in Death Gate?

 

[kellzfresh]

Agreed
"Senju and uchiha, hashirama and madara, naruto and sasuke. Naruto I can see the first hokage in you his will of fire lives in you. You two will be the next chosen by FATE"
Will of fire and will of hatred
Naruto and Sasuke

Sorry but hashirama still > hiruzen

 

[iSpeak the Truth]

Not while fighting Madara at the VotE. So his EMS may not have been enough to stabilize Susano'o, and if it was then PS just wasn't enough. Madara MAY have been the one to kill Hashirama, but that happened long after.

Most of Madara's contemporaries have died, even he himself.

Madara simply said, whoever has seen it; has died. Not "they were killed by it".

The shield doesn't cover everything. And if so, doesn't that mean he could beat Madara while in Susano'o? One of the two must be wrong.

Invincible does not equal strongest. Susanoo on its own is one of the best shields, on top of which he has the Yata, which deflects everything. Susanoo is also high powered and super fast, no one can escape its attack without some sort of shunshin jutsu, or sage mode, unless they have speed to match the Raikage and Naruto.

He has not failed in his promise to serve the village unto death, he can and HAS. Name one person who served under him in battle who died in that fight since the series started.

That was the only dangerous mission we have seen them go on, Kakashi has failed at keeping his word many times! He opens his mouth too easily.

Strongest doesn't mean undefeatable.

Exactly....

 

[Darth Wignus]

I pretty much have to agree.

 

[Piratefish]

Madara simply said, whoever has seen it; has died. Not "they were killed by it".

It's him deliberately talking himself up though, he has killed no named character with it and it's not even certain he ever HAS killed anyone with it before.

Invincible does not equal strongest. Susanoo on its own is one of the best shields, on top of which he has the Yata, which deflects everything. Susanoo is also high powered and super fast, no one can escape its attack without some sort of shunshin jutsu, or sage mode, unless they have speed to match the Raikage and Naruto.

Very true, though I'm convinced even it's incvincibility may not be certain. Susano'o's Sword is nearly unsurpassed as an offense, but also short-ranged and has only ever sealed fairly easy targets. Nagato couldn't walk (at least not well, and there's no evidence of him even moving) and the Orochi Hydra Creature wasn't very much more speedy than several of your average, fairly large summons.

The Yata deflects everything he can block with it, true, but he can't block 360 degrees around him at all times. It's among the greatest defenses in the series, but not invincible, even in conjunction with Susano'o.

That was the only dangerous mission we have seen them go on, Kakashi has failed at keeping his word many times! He opens his mouth too easily.

True, but since Obito, maybe, and definitely since Rin, he has largely succeded in defending his comrades, even in battles of a far higher level than he had any right to expect.

Exactly....

Ah, you're not one of those who insist Madara is impossible to take down for any single person, I was getting worried. Naruto is gaining fast though.

 

[theRPGdude]

Always I am impressed. My thread vs yours and your always comes at top man. Your the best!