Compilation: Why the rinnegan is not an evolution of the sharingan.

[The Eye]

nagato awakened his rinnegan. Tobi is a lier. Tobi isnt the bible dont pick and choose what you wanna believe and throw out the rest

 

[Maunten]

Rinnegan is Uchiha Dojutsu please say to me how Nagato an Uzumaki can awaken the Sharingan ? It is the same as saying Naruto can awake the Sharingan.

Rinnegan is Uchiha dojutsu as I said so how cna Uzumaki awaken it ? Eh ?

Nagato is using Madaras eys same goes for Tobi.
You need to go beyond EMS to get Rinnegan... And did Nagato or Tobi do that ? NO.

The rinnegan is an uchiha dojutsu why? There are quite a few assumptions being made about the rinnegan which are then going on to be used in debates...

The pivotal question is "Did nagato awaken the rinnegan", after all if it was implanted into him as a very young child was it infact an adult that awakened it?

 

[KyoshiroSenju]

The rinnegan is an uchiha dojutsu why? There are quite a few assumptions being made about the rinnegan which are then going on to be used in debates...

The pivotal question is "Did nagato awaken the rinnegan", after all if it was implanted into him as a very young child was it infact an adult that awakened it?

Why cuz only a uchiha awaken it except from so6p..

 

[iSpeak]

The main posiiton of my compilation was not that tobi was lying but that he was speaking metaphorically or cryptically even, he is a ninja even if he is about to kill the person should he give all of the info?

I also did not say that madara did not know nagato, I do not know how it supports the position that nagato's rinnegan are implants any more than it would support the position that nagato was picked out for his potential to awaken the rinnegan.

I don't understand what you mean.
Are you telling me an Uzumaki or Uchiha is able to unlock the Rinnegan through mourning the death of someone close to them?
How would Tobi or Madara know that Nagato is capable of unlocking the Rinnegan? Something which was considered a myth even to people like Jiraiya.
Tobi (whilst still posing as Madara and speaking from his perspective) says he gave Nagato the Rinnegan. We then see that the real Madara knows Nagato and has the Rinnegan aswell (the only other person to have it bar the Sage). It should be quite clear he was given the Rinnegan.
And like I said before, if Nagato had normal eyes then there would be no reason to hide them from us would there?

 

[Maunten]

I don't understand what you mean.
Are you telling me an Uzumaki or Uchiha is able to unlock the Rinnegan through mourning the death of someone close to them?
How would Tobi or Madara know that Nagato is capable of unlocking the Rinnegan? Something which was considered a myth even to people like Jiraiya.
Tobi (whilst still posing as Madara and speaking from his perspective) says he gave Nagato the Rinnegan. We then see that the real Madara knows Nagato and has the Rinnegan aswell (the only other person to have it bar the Sage). It should be quite clear he was given the Rinnegan.
And like I said before, if Nagato had normal eyes then there would be no reason to hide them from us would there?

I did not say this, I said both bloodlines are required for activation of the rinnegan.

I said that it is possible that through reading the tablet within the uchiha shrine and maybe using MS, the user can see chakra which is suitable for the awakening of the rinnegan, hence EMS being the stepping stone for awakening the rinnegan.

I know that this ^^^^^^^^^^ is all speculation but it is speculation based on manga events simply interpreted differently to you.

The main point is to outline that there should be some significant doubt remaining concerning the theory that the rinnegan is the evolution of the sharingan.

Therefore such a thing should not be quoted in debates. I know what kabuto said, but he has been wrong before, kabuto =/= kishi.

Madara did not confirm that the rinnegan is the evolution of the sharingan and he did not reject such a claim either as kabuto did not even suggest it to him in those words, it was interpreted that way by us.


May I ask how do you suggest madara would know nagato given his edo state..?

 

[iSpeak]

I did not say this, I said both bloodlines are required for activation of the rinnegan.

I said that it is possible that through reading the tablet within the uchiha shrine and maybe using MS, the user can see chakra which is suitable for the awakening of the rinnegan, hence EMS being the stepping stone for awakening the rinnegan.

I know that this ^^^^^^^^^^ is all speculation but it is speculation based on manga events simply interpreted differently to you.

The main point is to outline that there should be some significant doubt remaining concerning the theory that the rinnegan is the evolution of the sharingan.

Therefore such a thing should not be quoted in debates. I know what kabuto said, but he has been wrong before, kabuto =/= kishi.

Madara did not confirm that the rinnegan is the evolution of the sharingan and he did not reject such a claim either as kabuto did not even suggest it to him in those words, it was interpreted that way by us.


May I ask how do you suggest madara would know nagato given his edo state..?

So are you saying that you believe anybody with both dna has the ability to awaken it through mourning the death of someone close to them? Well it is possible that you are correct but from what the Manga has told us it seems much more likely that I am.
Saying that Kabuto has been wrong before is not enough of a reason to say he is wrong now. So many people in the Manga have been wrong at one time or another, I could use that same excuse with them. Then near enough all Manga references would be unusable in debates.
What does Madara's state have to do with knowing Nagato? If you believe Edo's are brought back as they died, then that is a big misconception. Edo's are brought back at the age the dna was taken (or else how would the dna know what they look like when they die if it was taken way before?). Kabuto could have simply found something which contained Madara's dna at that age.

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

He did not unlock the rinnegan then if he didn't have the rinnegan why would kishi cover his eyes. Wouldn't he show his normal eyes at least once. In the anime just before he got angry you could slightly see the rinnegan why would the animators do that if he unlocked it. But lets not get anime involved, just saying.

 

[sulanis]

I think we are so close to find all this out, that i just can't stand it.

 

[Maunten]

So are you saying that you believe anybody with both dna has the ability to awaken it through mourning the death of someone close to them? Well it is possible that you are correct but from what the Manga has told us it seems much more likely that I am.
Saying that Kabuto has been wrong before is not enough of a reason to say he is wrong now. So many people in the Manga have been wrong at one time or another, I could use that same excuse with them. Then near enough all Manga references would be unusable in debates.
What does Madara's state have to do with knowing Nagato? If you believe Edo's are brought back as they died, then that is a big misconception. Edo's are brought back at the age the dna was taken (or else how would the dna know what they look like when they die if it was taken way before?). Kabuto could have simply found something which contained Madara's dna at that age.

Let me make this clear this thread is not me fanboying or hating the uchiha.

Though I agree that it is possible that madara knows nagato or that tobi transplanted the eyes, let me ask you, why pick an uzumaki, and senju relative out of all those children.

This only supports the conclusion that it is not just a simple evolution, it does infact need both DNA.

So although you may have defeated, in some respect, one pillar of my position which puts the transplant theory in doubt, and you also possibly explained madaras edo state, it just opens up a whole nother can of worms, and still leaves crucial problems with the evolution theory.

 

[Gooner4life]

Let me make this clear this thread is not me fanboying or hating the uchiha.

Though I agree that it is possible that madara knows nagato or that tobi transplanted the eyes, let me ask you, why pick an uzumaki, and senju relative out of all those children.

This only supports the conclusion that it is not just a simple evolution, it does infact need both DNA.

So although you may have defeated, in some respect, one pillar of my position which puts the transplant theory in doubt, and you also possibly explained madaras edo state, it just opens up a whole nother can of worms, and still leaves crucial problems with the evolution theory.

Using an Uzumaki would bring them closer to the sage's power as Nagato had the chakra to spam the techniques effectively. While this sort of supports your theory, loads of people have used senju DNA to extend the length of their techniques. The outer path technique would require a lot of chakra presumably, at levels an Uchiha would not have, the level needed possibly increasing with time, so to resurrect someone who had been dead for at least 25 years or someone with vast amounts of chakra would have to be used. When it is unlocked by an Uchiha the chakra cost would be much lower as it is their eyes but only a senju without Uchiha blood would be able to use the techniques without the losing all their chakra without actually unlocking it. Also Tobi/Madara can't just use someone from a clan they have been marginalised from. That's just my take on it.

 

[Maunten]

Using an Uzumaki would bring them closer to the sage's power as Nagato had the chakra to spam the techniques effectively. While this sort of supports your theory, loads of people have used senju DNA to extend the length of their techniques. The outer path technique would require a lot of chakra presumably, at levels an Uchiha would not have, the level needed possibly increasing with time, so to resurrect someone who had been dead for at least 25 years or someone with vast amounts of chakra would have to be used. When it is unlocked by an Uchiha the chakra cost would be much lower as it is their eyes but only a senju without Uchiha blood would be able to use the techniques without the losing all their chakra without actually unlocking it. Also Tobi/Madara can't just use someone from a clan they have been marginalised from. That's just my take on it.

Yes but maintaining the sharingan, the byakugan and the rinnegan require chakra.

What if the rinnegan requires large amounts of chakra to maintain and or large amounts of life force or of physical energy, amounts only present in senju or uzumaki?

If that is the case huge amounts of life force or of physical energy would be needed to awaken the rinnegan.

 

[Gooner4life]

Yes but maintaining the sharingan, the byakugan and the rinnegan require chakra.

What if the rinnegan requires large amounts of chakra to maintain and or large amounts of life force or of physical energy, amounts only present in senju or uzumaki?

If that is the case huge amounts of life force or of physical energy would be needed to awaken the rinnegan.

A implanted dojutsu takes a lot more chakra, meaning that some one with a large chakra pool would be needed and seeing how easily Nagato could be manipulated and how strong he could become as well as being a uzumaki made him the perfect vessel. Dojutsu from natural users takes a lot less chakra eg Itachi always has his activated whereas Kakashi need's to cover his to avoid burning too much chakra, and Itachi definitely doesn't have a lot more chakra than Kakashi. If it is truly unlockable and works like a normal dojutsu then inhumane amounts of chakra wouldn't be needed to a natural user

 

[natssuu]

1) We've never seen Nagato's normal eyes

2) Madara said that he awakened rinnegans

3) Tobi said that Nagato's rinnegans were his in the begin with when he acted as Madara

 

[Maunten]

1) We've never seen Nagato's normal eyes

2) Madara said that he awakened rinnegans

3) Tobi said that Nagato's rinnegans were his in the begin with when he acted as Madara

Correct but this implies both that it was either awakened before naga was introduced or implanted before he was introduced.

Yes but how he did this remains unknown

The eyes tobi implanted into negato could have been eyes with the potential for rinnegan to be awakened, all that was required was a suitable body in order for this to happen, an uzumaki or senju.

A implanted dojutsu takes a lot more chakra, meaning that some one with a large chakra pool would be needed and seeing how easily Nagato could be manipulated and how strong he could become as well as being a uzumaki made him the perfect vessel. Dojutsu from natural users takes a lot less chakra eg Itachi always has his activated whereas Kakashi need's to cover his to avoid burning too much chakra, and Itachi definitely doesn't have a lot more chakra than Kakashi. If it is truly unlockable and works like a normal dojutsu then inhumane amounts of chakra wouldn't be needed to a natural user

So an uzumaki is a perfect host over an uchiha? Yes nagato can be manipulate but so can many children from that Nin war, haku for example, what you have said in some way supports my position.

 

[Munboy]

Madara got the Rinnegan sometime before his death; likely after he obtained Hashirama's power.

sharingan and rinnegan can not be used simultaneously as they are different dojutsu.

Madara used Susanoo with the Rinnegan.

 

[Maunten]

Madara got the Rinnegan sometime before his death; likely after he obtained Hashirama's power.



Madara used Susanoo with the Rinnegan.

Yes you are right about the susanoo incident, I must have missed it.
Is your first comment concerning both DNA being needed?

 

[Gèckö]

that's not what the manga says

 

[Munboy]

Yes you are right about the susanoo incident, I must have missed it.
Is your first comment concerning both DNA being needed?

Indeed. Based on the following:

- Madara did have Hashirama's power controlled and his own power prior his death and when he got the Rinnegan.
- Tobi said to be a Rikudou you need control over Uchiha and Senju powers
- A Rikudou denotes someone who can use the Six Paths; the Six Paths can only be used by Rinnegan users.

 

[Maunten]

Indeed. Based on the following:

- Madara did have Hashirama's power controlled and his own power prior his death and when he got the Rinnegan.
- Tobi said to be a Rikudou you need control over Uchiha and Senju powers
- A Rikudou denotes someone who can use the Six Paths; the Six Paths can only be used by Rinnegan users.

Wow more research makes for shorter theories, compilations and arguments.

 

[Gooner4life]

Correct but this implies both that it was either awakened before naga was introduced or implanted before he was introduced.

Yes but how he did this remains unknown

The eyes tobi implanted into negato could have been eyes with the potential for rinnegan to be awakened, all that was required was a suitable body in order for this to happen, an uzumaki or senju.




So an uzumaki is a perfect host over an uchiha? Yes nagato can be manipulate but so can many children from that Nin war, haku for example, what you have said in some way supports my position.

I guess, but any implanted dojutsu will take a lot of chakra unless it is to get the EMS, which is implanting the same type of eye not a higher level one meaning that to be able to have it constantly activated without it taking masses of chakra without having activated it yourself lots of chakra will be needed or you will be like Kakashi as it is a different dojutsu which can be unlocked through the sharingan