compairing naruto (all forms) and sasuke (all forms)

[Sennin of Logic]

That makes no sense at all considering Rasengan IS pure Chakra, nothing else. Rasengan's size=The amount of chakra put into it. Natural Energy only makes it bigger which has been shown in multiple scans now.

Feats disagree with the bold. SM Rasengan hasn't been shown to be more powerful than a normal Rasengan of its size. All the Nature Energy does is make it bigger. Bigger is better with Rasengan. That's why every single time without exception, where Rasengan gets a power up. It gets bigger.

There's nothing in the manga supporting that ransengan's power is exclusively determined by size. That's an assumption you made up. In fact, the manga has given an example that disproves your argument since part 1.

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The actual size of the ransengans are equal. Yet, It's very clear that the one-tail version is stronger. The red part is an aura, the ransengan part of it is the same size. Conclusion, size matters not.

 

[Avinash012]

We are talking about Jiraiya and Naruto, not Ma.

Bold is contradictory, he can't summon them with his own juice but he did it in the manga? lmao.

I know that Calling them out=Summoning them, your point?

Jiraiya entering SM as quickly as Naruto doesn't matter here. He wasn't doing that to get into SM he was doing that to summon Ma and Pa.

Naruto having more chakra isn't going let him gather that chakra faster than someone with less chakra, solely because he has more of it, that makes no sense.

I know it was stated that you need to gather natural energy, that's why I said, don't tell me Jiraiya was gathering Natural Energy.

Um, then he says "I'm calling on the Two Great Sennin" your point? It doesn't change the fact he wasn't gathering Nature Energy, to tell me he was to basically saying everything Kishimoto established about Nature Energy is false.
Naruto isn't instantly summoning Ma and Pa.

U r sayng all this crap again....

See this

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Jman : Said that he is entering SM and that toad imediatly predected that Jman is summoning Ma & Pa without Jman mentioning that...which means that Jman enters SM to summon them ...!

What does Entering SM has to do with summoning Ma & Pa...?

I never said that Naruto can summon Ma & Pa just bcoz he had high chakra than Jman ...Jman needs to enter SM to summon Ma & Pa and it require some time for Jman to enter SM but Naruto can enter SM in fraction of secs and Summon them..

Here it say's Jman's SM isn't proficient with SM

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Dnt telme that Jman calling them by usng telepaty and Jman needs to stand still and Hold hand like that to Call them ..!

Iam done with u ..I completly understnd that u dnt knw a thing abt SM.

U have no logical reason to prove me wrong and keep sayng that single word all the time...
Here are the reasons behing ur argument

1.U dnt want to admit that SM Naruto > Ms Sasuke
2.U dnt want to admit that u r wrong in Jman's case

Go and make a thread and knw what people think's abt that....!

I like how madara's susano'o not only dwarfed that tbb, but also tanked it with just the sword. That alone tells you sasuke's CS is about the size of a tbb and is going to tank at the very least one.


Are you saying it can't...? The

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clearly shows enton moving foward while the sand is cancaving, hence the sand's being pushed back, rofl...

Ribcage susano'o wasn't nearly enough of a defence against gaara's sand... Did you not see Ay breach it a few scans prior? Clearly sasuke would be on more defensive measures. Anyway, MS Interprets it how they think it should be, just like MP. Unless you have an official viz scan, your scan is just as 'useful' as mine. More importantly, sasuke was refering to the sand that blocked gaara's siblings at that point. If you notice, enton pushes back the sand

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, but we see two more entons were also fired in the direction of the siblings which gaara had to inevitable defend against. Therefore, not only did sasuke have to defend himself against the sand with enton, but gaara was also able to defend against his enton with sand, giving rise to sasuke's statement.

This made my day Iam done with u...!

 

[KidGamer65]

There's nothing in the manga supporting that ransengan's power is exclusively determined by size. That's an assumption you made up. In fact, the manga has given an example that disproves your argument since part 1.

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The actual size of the ransengans are equal. Yet, It's very clear that the one-tail version is stronger. The red part is an aura, the ransengan part of it is the same size. Conclusion, size matters not.

There is nothing in the manga supporting that Rasengan's power is based on size?

Oodama Rasengan has more chakra put into it and its

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.

Minato's

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than Naruto's Rasengan. Why? Cause its bigger. If you are going to refute my post, don't spout nonsense on top of it like there is nothing supporting Rasengan being stronger with size despite manga clearly supporting it and me showing that manga supports it many times now.

But nonetheless you have a point, though its not like it changes the outcome of this battle. You've only refuted one of my points.

 

[AGoodBoy]

You are probably one of the dumbest people on here* lmfao.



OT, SM Naruto gives EMS Sasuke a run for his money, KCM stomps, and BM is overkill.
GG

Lmfao my ****ing sides. Another idiot added to ever growing roster of narutard morons.

@KG and Avianish. That whole jiraiya summoning ma and pa thing you guys are arguing is a bit confusing.. I'd just like to add the fact that a certain amount of chakra has to be put in to summon certain summonings. Ma And Pa are probably one of those that require massive amounts of chakra, probably because they're at the top of the foodchain of frogs as the frog sages, and hence why jiraiya had his hands together. This hints to us that jiraiya was simply building up chakra to summon Ma and PA so that they could

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to get into SM.
As Pa also stated, you can't

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due to the obvious handicap of needing to sit still which leaves you a ragdoll target. Therefore, the only way jiraiya could get into SM was to Summon Ma and PA to do a frog fusion.

Also, Ma could summon all those frogs easily because of Sage chakra. Jiraiya didn't have sage chakra working with him when he was trying to summon the two, whereas ma/pa always have the ability to easily

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.

 

[KidGamer65]

U r sayng all this crap again....

See this

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Jman : Said that he is entering SM and that toad imediatly predected that Jman is summoning Ma & Pa without Jman mentioning that...which means that Jman enters SM to summon them ...!

He isn't going into Sage Mode in order to summon them.

1. He was moving thus he couldn't have been collecting Nature Energy.
2. He said I'm going to Sage Mode. The Toad says "You don't mean" Jiraiya answers telling him that he is calling on the Ni Dai Sennin, to do what? To enter Sage Mode.

What does Entering SM has to do with summoning Ma & Pa...?

I never said that Naruto can summon Ma & Pa just bcoz he had high chakra than Jman ...Jman needs to enter SM to summon Ma & Pa and it require some time for Jman to enter SM but Naruto can enter SM in fraction of secs and Summon them..

Wrong. Jiraiya was moving, something I ALREADY pointed out. He wasn't gathering Nature Energy in order to enter Sage Mode.

Here it say's Jman's SM isn't proficient with SM

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Dnt telme that Jman calling them by usng telepaty and Jman needs to stand still and Hold hand like that to Call them ..!

Iam done with u ..I completly understnd that u dnt knw a thing abt SM.

U have no logical reason to prove me wrong and keep sayng that single word all the time...
Here are the reasons behing ur argument

1.U dnt want to admit that SM Naruto > Ms Sasuke
2.U dnt want to admit that u r wrong in Jman's case

Go and make a thread and knw what people think's abt that....!

The rest of your post is irrelevant. You tell me that he was collecting Nature Energy in order to enter Sage Mode despite him moving around most of the time. YOU CAN'T MOVE WHEN YOU ARE COLLECTING NATURE ENERGY. Or did you forget.

You tell me he needs to enter Sage Mode in order to summon them even though that's a baseless assumption.

If you want to make sense here, you better explain to me how Jiraiya was collecting Nature Energy despite him moving.

Lmfao my ****ing sides. Another idiot added to ever growing roster of narutard morons.

@KG and Avianish. That whole jiraiya summoning ma and pa thing you guys are arguing is a bit confusing.. I'd just like to add the fact that a certain amount of chakra has to be put in to summon certain summonings. Ma And Pa are probably one of those that require massive amounts of chakra, probably because they're at the top of the foodchain of frogs as the frog sages, and hence why jiraiya had his hands together. This hints to us that jiraiya was simply building up chakra to summon Ma and PA so that they could

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to get into SM.
As Pa also stated, you can't

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due to the obvious handicap of needing to sit still which leaves you a ragdoll target. Therefore, the only way jiraiya could get into SM was to Summon Ma and PA to do a frog fusion.

Also, Ma could summon all those frogs easily because of Sage chakra. Jiraiya didn't have sage chakra working with him when he was trying to summon the two, whereas ma/pa always have the ability to easily

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.

I agree. Though this guy keeps on telling me that Jiraiya was doing that to enter Sage Mode. Which is false.

So I'm assuming that once Naruto enters SM he can summon them right away. Right?

 

[AGoodBoy]

U r sayng all this crap again....

See this

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Jman : Said that he is entering SM and that toad imediatly predected that Jman is summoning Ma & Pa without Jman mentioning that...which means that Jman enters SM to summon them ...!

What does Entering SM has to do with summoning Ma & Pa...?

I never said that Naruto can summon Ma & Pa just bcoz he had high chakra than Jman ...Jman needs to enter SM to summon Ma & Pa and it require some time for Jman to enter SM but Naruto can enter SM in fraction of secs and Summon them..

Here it say's Jman's SM isn't proficient with SM

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Dnt telme that Jman calling them by usng telepaty and Jman needs to stand still and Hold hand like that to Call them ..!

Iam done with u ..I completly understnd that u dnt knw a thing abt SM.

U have no logical reason to prove me wrong and keep sayng that single word all the time...
Here are the reasons behing ur argument

1.U dnt want to admit that SM Naruto > Ms Sasuke
2.U dnt want to admit that u r wrong in Jman's case

Go and make a thread and knw what people think's abt that....!



This made my day Iam done with u...!

Words of someone with zero counter.

Please give me this irrefutable proof of yours that:

1) Ribcage susano'o, that got breached by a chop, is guarding against gaara's bone crushing sand? The same sand that turns rocks to minerals. Don't worry, i'll wait.

2) The proof of yours that what i said about enton pushing it back being false. Because, based on physics, if two things are propelled at each other, but one is deformed(concaved) while the other continues in perfect form, the concaved material had to have been pushed back or halted. But, go on, you're probably stephen hawkin in disguise.

"What does Entering SM has to do with summoning Ma & Pa...?"
L2read the god damn manga and you'd be able to answer such a stupid statement[

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][

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][

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]. Read everything in those scans, they defeat your entire jiraiya argument. You don't need to respond because it'd be a shitty response.... again.


EDIT: I'd like to add that in your own damn scan MA/Pa tell jiraiya "L2 enter sage mode on your own" bahahahahahaha. Even your own scan disagrees with you, ma and pa were summoned to gather the natural energy to enter SM.
/argument

 

[AGoodBoy]

I agree. Though this guy keeps on telling me that Jiraiya was doing that to enter Sage Mode. Which is false.

So I'm assuming that once Naruto enters SM he can summon them right away. Right?

I'd assume so also but naruto's never actually summoned them to fully gauge this.

 

[KidGamer65]

Well, Sasuke can still take it.

 

[kuramasage]

It's stupid to debate SM Naruto vs MS Sasuke because it just turns into a gigantic mess. But, I'll say this, for why SM Naruto > MS Sasuke

The 3rd Raikage, who was acknowledged by Ay to be his superior, lost to SM Naruto. If Gaara didn't show up at that moment, Ay and Sasuke would have killed each other, so MS Sasuke = Ay (I know he only had a ribcage at the time, but his eyesight just got worse and worse throughout, so full Susano'o Sasuke is about equal to ribcage Sasuke). Thus, SM Naruto > MS Sasuke.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

There is nothing in the manga supporting that Rasengan's power is based on size?

Oodama Rasengan has more chakra put into it and its

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.

Minato's

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than Naruto's Rasengan. Why? Cause its bigger. If you are going to refute my post, don't spout nonsense on top of it like there is nothing supporting Rasengan being stronger with size despite manga clearly supporting it and me showing that manga supports it many times now.

But nonetheless you have a point, though its not like it changes the outcome of this battle. You've only refuted one of my points.

I said "size matter not" as a star wars pun. What I mean is that while size does matter, it's not completely reliant on size. Size only indicates the amount of chakra put into it, not its potency.

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In other words, the difference between normal chakra and sage chakra isn't amounts, but potency since natural energy's mixed in to boost it. This means that for the same amounts of chakra Naruto puts into a jutsu is far more potent the normal chakra. SM doesn't enhance reserves. Here's why, SM Naruto's ransenshuriken count=base count. There's not stamina boost other than using natural energy to take the brunt of the drain.

 

[Avinash012]

I'd just like to add the fact that a certain amount of chakra has to be put in to summon certain summonings. Ma And Pa are probably one of those that require massive amounts of chakra, probably because they're at the top of the foodchain of frogs as the frog sages,

That is what Iam saying from the beginning of the argument...It take's a great deal of chakra to summon them...

hence why jiraiya had his hands together. This hints to us that jiraiya was simply building up chakra to summon Ma and PA so that they could

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to get into SM.
As Pa also stated, you can't

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due to the obvious handicap of needing to sit still which leaves you a ragdoll target. Therefore, the only way jiraiya could get into SM was to Summon Ma and PA to do a frog fusion.

Bro think Logically ...

R u saying that Jman can't mould his own chakra to summon them Just bcoz the amount of chakra is big..?

Come on Bro Jman is a sannin and he can use any Amount of chakra (with in his range) at any given time there is no need for him to gather his own chakra by holding hands like that....!
Look at Minato he is able to teleport Kyubi within fraction of sec's and it requires great deal of Juice just like summoning Toads ..Minato used almost all of his juice at a time and i'll bet Jman can do the same thing to summon them if he want

Yes I knw that one can not enter SM while fighting ,but look at Jman he is stnding on Toad with out moving his body which is a basic requirement of entering SM...!

Jman gathered alittle of Natural energy to summon Ma and Pa that's y it took that much time for Jman to Summon them...!

Also, Ma could summon all those frogs easily because of Sage chakra. Jiraiya didn't have sage chakra working with him when he was trying to summon the two, whereas ma/pa always have the ability to easily

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.

I have mentioned the same thing more than one time in my post'a that Ma is able to summon them bcoz of SM and Naruto can do that after entering SM...!

 

[Smd]

man o man

i like the op i think its pretty accurate except last 2

 

[Avinash012]

That is what Iam saying from the beginning of the argument...It take's a great deal of chakra to summon them...
Bro think Logically ...

R u saying that Jman can't mould his own chakra to summon them Just bcoz the amount of chakra is big..?

Come on Bro Jman is a sannin and he can use any Amount of chakra (with in his range) at any given time there is no need for him to gather his own chakra by holding hands like that....!
Look at Minato he is able to teleport Kyubi within fraction of sec's and it requires great deal of Juice just like summoning Toads ..Minato used almost all of his juice at a time and i'll bet Jman can do the same thing to summon them if he want

Yes I knw that one can not enter SM while fighting ,but look at Jman he is stnding on Toad with out moving his body which is a basic requirement of entering SM...!

Jman gathered alittle of Natural energy to summon Ma and Pa that's y it took that much time for Jman to Summon them...!




I have mentioned the same thing more than one time in my post'a that Ma is able to summon them bcoz of SM and Naruto can do that after entering SM...!

Words of someone with zero counter.

Please give me this irrefutable proof of yours that:

1) Ribcage susano'o, that got breached by a chop, is guarding against gaara's bone crushing sand? The same sand that turns rocks to minerals. Don't worry, i'll wait.

2) The proof of yours that what i said about enton pushing it back being false. Because, based on physics, if two things are propelled at each other, but one is deformed(concaved) while the other continues in perfect form, the concaved material had to have been pushed back or halted. But, go on, you're probably stephen hawkin in disguise.

1.He activated Ribcage Susanoo which means that he can use complete Susanoo to defend himself from Gaara's attack Just like he did in this page against combined attack

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2.So u r saying that Amterasu uses certain amount of force to push Opponent backword's ..I have never seen Amaterasu pushing opponents backwords

Since none of scan's work's on each other All I can tell u is Plz watch Anime and clarify u r doubt....!

 

[Ovan]

Part 1
-Sasuke>Naruto from beginning to Gaara fight.
-Naruto>Sasuke from Gaara fight to VoTE.

-VoTE Base Sasuke>VoTE Base Naruto.
-VoTE KN0 Naruto>VoTE 2-Tomoe Sasuke.
-VoTE 3-Tomoe Sasuke>KN0 Naruto
-VoTE KN1 Naruto>VoTE 3-Tomoe Sasuke
-VoTE CS2 Sasuke>VoTE KN1 Naruto.

Part 2

Beginning of Shippuden Sasuke>Beginning of Shippuden Naruto.
Hebi Sasuke>FRS Naruto.
SM Naruto>Hebi Sasuke.
MS Sasuke>SM Naruto.
KCM Naruto>MS Sasuke.
EMS Sasuke>KCM Naruto
BM Naruto>EMS Sasuke.

I think he has it.

 

[KidGamer65]

That is what Iam saying from the beginning of the argument...It take's a great deal of chakra to summon them...
Bro think Logically ...

R u saying that Jman can't mould his own chakra to summon them Just bcoz the amount of chakra is big..?

Come on Bro Jman is a sannin and he can use any Amount of chakra (with in his range) at any given time there is no need for him to gather his own chakra by holding hands like that....!
Look at Minato he is able to teleport Kyubi within fraction of sec's and it requires great deal of Juice just like summoning Toads ..Minato used almost all of his juice at a time and i'll bet Jman can do the same thing to summon them if he want

Yes I knw that one can not enter SM while fighting ,but look at Jman he is stnding on Toad with out moving his body which is a basic requirement of entering SM...!

Jman gathered alittle of Natural energy to summon Ma and Pa that's y it took that much time for Jman to Summon them...!

Are you still repeating this same bullshit?

 

[the last uchiha]

man o man

i like the op i think its pretty accurate except last 2

thank you your comment is appreciated

 

[FoxSikes]

lol, yes he is.

Spoiler

MS Sasuke>SM Naruto.

The only attack that can even hope of damaging Sasuke's level 4 Susanoo is Naruto's FRS. Except, Naruto only has 3 FRS to fire and Enton easily counters FRS by consuming it and making a bigger flame

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The FRS is completely gone so than is BS about it being made stronger by the Enton and being a danger to Sasuke is false. It'll get consumed by the flame and turned on Naruto instead, which can later be used to take care of any clones. (Via Kagutsuchi)

V2 Susanoo was able to block off the majority of Kirin's damage, Sasuke's level 4 Susanoo easily tanks that. Even if someone wants to come here saying that FRS cut the Juubi's tails (Which is false, besides, flesh is more prone to cutting and slicing than it is to explosive damage) Its not like FRS will ever hit Susanoo anyway.

No Rasengan of any kind is getting past a level 4 Susanoo or even damaging it, not in a million years so no one mention that either. Not when Kyuubi took more visible damage from FRS, not when FRS is his strongest jutsu.

Toad Summons are completely useless as they get casually one shotted by Enton projectiles. (Which Sasuke can shoot from his level 4 Susanoo due to the Amaterasu orb being present)

No one mention Ma and Pa cause even if Naruto can summon them, we've already seen that it took Jiraiya a whole chapter to call on them, and he had to have his hands clapped together. That leaves him vulnerable to Amaterasu as he would have zero defenses capable of making a difference.

Naruto either ends up getting hit by Amaterasu or he gets hit by an arrow after Sage Mode runs out either due to the 5 minute limit or his FRS limit

MS Sasuke wins this, especially with full intel, waiting for someone to explain how he wins cause with Enton easily countering his strongest move, there is no chance of his victory.

i agree that ms Sasuke could beat Naruto in Sm but wouldnt frs absorb the black flames and be sent thew ay it is shot anyway? In the manga, frs absorbed the black flames and became a black flames frs so wouldnt that be bad for Sasuke to have an FRS Black Flame bomb coming at him? A normal FRS cannot damage Susanoo but a black flames ones should be a problem for it. What do you think about that?

And I thought Naruto can only shoot 2 FRS per Sage Mode unless he has improved and I didnt know, in the pain fight they said he can shoot 2

 

[Kaede]

ms sasuke not better than sage mode naruto.

MS Sasuke > SM Naruto.

 

[KidGamer65]

i agree that ms Sasuke could beat Naruto in Sm but wouldnt frs absorb the black flames and be sent thew ay it is shot anyway? In the manga, frs absorbed the black flames and became a black flames frs so wouldnt that be bad for Sasuke to have an FRS Black Flame bomb coming at him? A normal FRS cannot damage Susanoo but a black flames ones should be a problem for it. What do you think about that?

And I thought Naruto can only shoot 2 FRS per Sage Mode unless he has improved and I didnt know, in the pain fight they said he can shoot 2

Like the scan in post shows. It shows that the Enton absorbed FRS and became nothing but flame. It only takes on a Shuriken form since that is what the Enton spread out to become. FRS's properties are completely negated.

Notice that there is no explosion of FRS

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or

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.

Also, firing Enton at it would push it in the opposite direction, so once it becomes a giant ball of flame it'll be going in the opposite direction toward Naruto.

Naruto can

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3

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before leaving SM.

 

[Optimistic]

Base Naruto > Base Sasuke(without sharingan)
Sage Mode Naruto < MS Sasuke
KCM Naruto =< EMS Sasuke
BM Naruto >=< EMS Sasuke.