[Theory] Coalescing past thoughts and a prediction of power
- Thread starter Transcendence
- Start date
@Hirudora, I am not "mad" at you, I simply wanted to hear your opinion on this, since unlike Condescence, you actually believe in things for a good reason and not because you are a fanboy.
While I agree that in the manga, Madara stated he required Senju DNA, if you're going to include the "ignorance factor" (which you are, by saying that Kabuto might have been talking about things he didn't know), then I can also say that Madara might be ignorant of a person who doesn't need that final little push to get the Rinnegan, in this case Sasuke.
There is one argument from Condescence that should be answered:
And still, your comment does not answer the fact Rinnegan techniques are obsolete in Naruto's hands, he does not need any of the paths when his techniques are simply superior.
When it was about Tobi being Izuna you went "everyone who thinks he's Obito is a complete moron", and you lost the bet.
When it was about Rikudo being a Uzumaki, you insulted everyone who opposed Sir Derp Obito, and you lost the bet.
What makes you think you're going to win the bet on something with less chances of happening?
You just get what you deserve. I know I'm not going to convince Condescence out of his ideas, and that's precicely why when Naruto doesn't unlock the Rinnegan and Sasuke does, I'll have the privilege to make fun of him.
"He who laughs last, laughs longer."
While I agree that in the manga, Madara stated he required Senju DNA, if you're going to include the "ignorance factor" (which you are, by saying that Kabuto might have been talking about things he didn't know), then I can also say that Madara might be ignorant of a person who doesn't need that final little push to get the Rinnegan, in this case Sasuke.
There is one argument from Condescence that should be answered:
No, Rinnegan is mostly defence/utility than offense, except for Asura and Deva Path (which frankly can be used both ways).
And still, your comment does not answer the fact Rinnegan techniques are obsolete in Naruto's hands, he does not need any of the paths when his techniques are simply superior.
This is the reason I'm nicknaming the other guy "Condescence", you guys are far too arrogant about yourselves and consider everyone who opposes you a "troll". It's you who is hot-headed.
When it was about Tobi being Izuna you went "everyone who thinks he's Obito is a complete moron", and you lost the bet.
When it was about Rikudo being a Uzumaki, you insulted everyone who opposed Sir Derp Obito, and you lost the bet.
What makes you think you're going to win the bet on something with less chances of happening?
You just get what you deserve. I know I'm not going to convince Condescence out of his ideas, and that's precicely why when Naruto doesn't unlock the Rinnegan and Sasuke does, I'll have the privilege to make fun of him.
"He who laughs last, laughs longer."
Uchiha Marshmallow
Active member
Amazing theory. However I really don't see why Naruto would need the Rinnegan to become the reincarnation of the Sage of the Six Paths. I see the story may be written in a more "equal" way in the future, between Naruto and Sasuke, but as you as theorized how the SO6P awoke the Rinnegan: with the chakra from the full Juubi in comparison to Kurama, (may be in the manga, not sure). However i fail to see how this intertwines with how Madara awoke the Rinnegan in a near-death circumstance.
Also I see the story of the Sage's sons as a role of leadership of a village or country, as i do with Naruto and Sasuke. Naruto the younger son, and Sasuke as the elder son, Kishi may try to 're-enact' the Sages sons with Sasuke trying to become Hokage, and lead in a "powerful" way, as how he is trying to destroy the ninja system,(something like that), And Naruto leading in a "peaceful" way, as shown by a couple hundred wasted panels. And ultimately the people will favor Naruto, and Sasuke extinguishing the flame of jealousy inside him for Naruto, as well as the Curse of Hatred.
Now for me i truly think Kishimoto will not 'hax' out Naruto as much as to give him the Rinnegan. Due to the elder sage toad's prophecy about Naruto vs sasuke in saying that, "You will fight a boy/man with powerful eyes". Now if Naruto gets the Rinngean it would just feel far to one-sided in the final battle as Sasuke will be fighting someone with:
Also I see the story of the Sage's sons as a role of leadership of a village or country, as i do with Naruto and Sasuke. Naruto the younger son, and Sasuke as the elder son, Kishi may try to 're-enact' the Sages sons with Sasuke trying to become Hokage, and lead in a "powerful" way, as how he is trying to destroy the ninja system,(something like that), And Naruto leading in a "peaceful" way, as shown by a couple hundred wasted panels. And ultimately the people will favor Naruto, and Sasuke extinguishing the flame of jealousy inside him for Naruto, as well as the Curse of Hatred.
Now for me i truly think Kishimoto will not 'hax' out Naruto as much as to give him the Rinnegan. Due to the elder sage toad's prophecy about Naruto vs sasuke in saying that, "You will fight a boy/man with powerful eyes". Now if Naruto gets the Rinngean it would just feel far to one-sided in the final battle as Sasuke will be fighting someone with:
- 100000x More chakra
- More powerful doujutsu
- Better Sensory
- Multiple Tailed beast's (i think)
- And a Unpenetrable 'Plot-Shield'
Yes, indeed I have to agree that (only as a thing of taste) Rinnegan is not Naruto fighting style (I guess we both agree on this one), but that's only my taste.
The main point (from my part here) is not that "People didn't believe in Tobi being Obito"... if I would be in there, in that time, I would just have said "Oh, it is possible. I can't deny that probability, nor accept it as a dogma. I am just a proof guy after all, and the only way to prove Tobi isn't Obito would be seeing Obito's corpse somewhere, or proving Obito is alive somewhere else and not behind that mask.
But if the theorist introducted a topic of "Tobi is Obito" with poor argumenting or no logical reasoning, I would disagree not because of his belief, but because of his lack of sense.
So, in the end, if we talk in terms of possibility, I still can't deny Transendence's theory because he wasn't reckless when he created this thread. That's all, he did a good job, and even if he is wrong in the end, he has my respect because he used a good argumentation to support his "theory" (a theory is not a truth, it is a well developed possibility that follows certain patterns, that is discovered thanks to the analysis of empirical tests... this is known as scientific method. The other way around is the use of historical data).
Well, I guess that's it. Thanks for the comprehension
PS: Forgot: A theory CAN be disproven with the use of Scientific method. I guess that's why I like what's put in my sig. XD
A question: What makes you think Sasuke doesn't need Senju DNA (if this is the push you're talking about) to awake the Rinnegan?
Are you talking about the possibility I bought up, of Naruto giving Sasuke a huge Yang Kurama bump? Or maybe certain fruit? Or you thought about another method?
If it is plausible, then yes, that makes sense, Madara would be ignorant from that perspective.
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Transcendence
Active member
Sasuke getting the Rinnegan would be equally overpowered but given the potential and the hax of Sasuke, I believe he could match Naruto. We'll see in the end, what happens and what comes to fruition. Thank you for reading.
And this is where your "argument" went to shit. I'm not a fanboy in the slightest. Your delusions are pitiful.
Transcendence
Active member
I'm not going to look at anything he says objectively when the person at hand doesn't actually argue but throw petty insults (cue; Condescendence comment) out of pure spite and pathetic delusion.
Hirudora,
What could Sasuke achieve in order to surpass Madara?
Let me put the question another way, what has Madara not done, that Sasuke could actually do now?
Madara reached EMS, and he was already quite strong with it. But that was his limit, he was not able to reach the next step and unlock the Rinnegan without getting an external power up.
If Sasuke is going to do what Madara couldn't do... then it's getting the Rinnegan. Another option would be getting sage mode or wood style or a bijuu or whatever, but it would be so much easier to get the Rinnegan since he's already 90% on his way to it, while he has no knowledge of sage mode or being a jinchuuriki whatsoever.
Naruto doesn't need the Rinnegan to further parallel the sage. True, it might have been one of Rikudo's traits, but so was the fact he was the Juubi's Jinchuuriki. Obito has the Juubi now, does that make him parallel the sage? No. Tenten used one of Rikudo's weapons, does that make her parallel the sage? No. It's about the ideals, not the appearance.
Naruto isn't going to ressemble anyone else aesthetically or combat wise. He's the main character, he's meant to be unique, even if that means being the only one who spams rasengans and clones all the time. Condescence dismissed this argument as crap, he didn't even bother to respond, but that's because he knows he can't. Son Goku, Luffy, Link, Mario, Sonic, Super Man... do any of these change their main traits asides from when they transform? The main character is an icon to the series, you can't just alter his blue eyes past 650 chapters.
It's very simple. Orochimaru stated that Sasuke has the potential to surpass Madara. This seems obvious, as he's, along with Naruto, a main character, and he's not done developping, unlike Madara who is only a zombie.
What could Sasuke achieve in order to surpass Madara?
Let me put the question another way, what has Madara not done, that Sasuke could actually do now?
Madara reached EMS, and he was already quite strong with it. But that was his limit, he was not able to reach the next step and unlock the Rinnegan without getting an external power up.
If Sasuke is going to do what Madara couldn't do... then it's getting the Rinnegan. Another option would be getting sage mode or wood style or a bijuu or whatever, but it would be so much easier to get the Rinnegan since he's already 90% on his way to it, while he has no knowledge of sage mode or being a jinchuuriki whatsoever.
Naruto doesn't need the Rinnegan to further parallel the sage. True, it might have been one of Rikudo's traits, but so was the fact he was the Juubi's Jinchuuriki. Obito has the Juubi now, does that make him parallel the sage? No. Tenten used one of Rikudo's weapons, does that make her parallel the sage? No. It's about the ideals, not the appearance.
Naruto isn't going to ressemble anyone else aesthetically or combat wise. He's the main character, he's meant to be unique, even if that means being the only one who spams rasengans and clones all the time. Condescence dismissed this argument as crap, he didn't even bother to respond, but that's because he knows he can't. Son Goku, Luffy, Link, Mario, Sonic, Super Man... do any of these change their main traits asides from when they transform? The main character is an icon to the series, you can't just alter his blue eyes past 650 chapters.
Hmm. To be honest, at first even I couldn't understand your arguments at first because they didn't seem more rational than a thing of taste, but now I am starting to get what were you meaning.
You're talking about Sasuke being able to surpass Madara not because of Plot, but because manga stated at some point that Sasuke has the potential to surpass Madara, and you're assuming that doing this would be adquiring one of the powerups you're implying, bypassing at least one of the requirements (Senju DNA).
...am I right?
(I'll answer properly based on your answer, since if my interpretation is correct, you're implying that Sasuke would surpass Madara defying Narutoverse's logic of Yin + Yang = Rinnegan).
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About Naruto... correct, under the perspective of Plot I too agree Naruto doesn't need the Rinnegan to parallel the Sage. But, I wouldn't be against the idea, since historic data already states that he is about to meet the requirements, independent of the question "is it really necessary or not".
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Transcendence
Active member
Hollow words. The potential of Sasuke's Eien No Mangekyou is boundless. We've literally seen Madara use 1 Mangekyou ability; Susano'o. Sasuke is basically at Perfect Susano'o (something Madara has) and this isn't accounting for his use of Enton manipulation which has no bounds as to what he shapes it to, and the fact that Perfect Susano'o will amplify his techniques size wise, seen when Madara's sword grew exponentially larger. And the potential "hax" of a new EMS technique (very possible given Sasuke's placing in the manga) would put him tiers above everyone bar EOS Naruto and Rikudou (if what I described came true).
Except... He has knowledge on all of that :| He's seen Naruto use Sage Mode and explain it, he's heard the explanation from Hashirama about his battle, and he's battled both Naruto and Bee before.
Yes. Even Madara himself stated "Obito has become like the Hermit of the Six Paths". Obito is effectively the "Dark" Sage.
Laughable that you say I haven't responded when that isn't even an argument. It's just your baseless opinion. "Oh, because I say so, it has to be true" -Armathyx
Pathetic.
So you're Kishimoto now? Mind telling me what's going to happen next chapter?
Dearest Condescence, let the grown ups talk, thank you.
Hirudora,
If Sasuke gets Rinnegan through getting Senju DNA, he wouldn't be surpassing Madara, he'd be equalling him, yes?
He needs to do something more unique in order to truly "surpass" Madara. I don't know what other possibilities you see for that, but I think getting the Rinnegan would be the most obvious feat.
Hirudora,
I am not sure if you are trying to twist my words and make me sound sensless with that ying yang argument, but in any case you pretty much understood the idea.
If Sasuke gets Rinnegan through getting Senju DNA, he wouldn't be surpassing Madara, he'd be equalling him, yes?
He needs to do something more unique in order to truly "surpass" Madara. I don't know what other possibilities you see for that, but I think getting the Rinnegan would be the most obvious feat.
Transcendence
Active member
Not surprising. Your arguments are all opinion based with no merit. Game is finished. Transcendence 5, Armathyx 0.
No, I'm not twisting anything (don't mind the yin + yang, I put the manga pages just as reference so you could understand the relationship between these energies, the Uchiha doujutsu and the Sage's doujutsu, but nothing more).
But you're basically telling that Sasuke would bypass the requirement, yes? If this is the case, why Rinnegan?
Didn't the Elder Son have a special doujutsu?
At least I don't know if this doujutsu was inferior or superior to the Rinnegan in terms of power. That is another possibility to surpass Madara. If Kishimoto's idea of Sasuke surpassing Madara relies in this unrevealed doujutsu, this could keep this event (Sasuke surpassing Madara) inside the Narutoverse's logic. Sasuke would be awakening the Elder Son's Eyes Doujutsu, that "could" be stronger than the Rinnegan, and of course, than Madara himself.
PS: Ugh, gotta go. Time for university xD. I'm back on few hours.
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Hirudora,
That's not a bad idea, not bad at all. As you probably know I usually hate random theories but that could actually pass my credibility requirements. I don't know if him having spiral eyes was just a mistake or a "free artistic decision" from Kishimoto to depict the Rinnegan otherwise, but it's not impossible.
What's making me agree with it so easily is that the Rinnegan has already been seen in the manga three times now (Rikudo, Nagato, Madara), there's no longer any surprise effect to it. We all know its abilities. Sure it would have an impact on the readers if Sasuke got those eyes now, but not as much as if he'd get something even better and completely new, it would be refreshing plot-wise.
Dearest Condescence,
I'm going to make an attempt to explain to you why I disrespect most of your posts and how you could improve,
It's not because you write a 3 mile long thread that it's necessary right. In fact the more you need to write something, the more you increase the odds of being full of shit. You can weave tons of information in any way you want, to make it say whatever you want.
In Einstein's words, if you fully understand something, you should be able to explain it to a toddler. It's not your case.
Now that's not enough to make me dislike you. My real problem with you, and it was the same with SDO, is that you deal with absolutes. You think you're right, and no matter how hard people counter you, you'll just ignore them and keep bumping your thread with "thank you"s. You call those who oppose you "deluded", and then you ragequit the forums when you're proven wrong. I hate that kind of arrogant attitude.
You should be more neutral and open minded, then I'd change your nickname to Gandhi and respond to you properly.
Transcendence
Active member
And this is where you are completely wrong. I don't deal with absolutes at all. When I propose a theory I deal with criticism accordingly. I don't deem it is fact at all, but more a possibility given what I observed (empirical observation) over time. I don't bump my thread with Thank you's, I say thank you to the people who say "Nice theory, I agree". If you read the first page, I responded to "thegame" accordingly in response to his criticism.
I've only called you deluded because you are condescending towards me out of spite and our past altercations. Several intelligent people with a discerning eye (Waltz, Sabaki, Adeshina, Hirudora) all have complied with the relative possibility of this theory coming to fruition. Now, does that make it fact? No. But it gives it a fair amount of validity given the intelligence on some of its viewers.
I am. You just fail to see that.
Transcendence
Active member
I feel as if the inherent potential that Sasuke has in his eyes, surpass the need for the Rinnegan, and the Rinnegan would change his versatile Enton based fighting style completely as he would need to constantly switch to his EMS to use Enton.
As for the better eyes; I wouldn't mind the Elder Son eyes, provided it is explained well and new techniques are ample enough to surpass who he needs to.
