Clearing misconceptions

[Takos]

I'll go straight to the point.

1. Kakashi was a dumbass if he thought he could kamui Juubi and Obito would not be able to kamui it back
We have no idea whether Kakashi tried to kamui a WHOLE juubi. According to (a more reliable) *********** translation, Kakashi wanted to "erase" the juubi, which can be interpreted as killing it. So, Kakashi might have simply wanted to kamui its head off, for all we know. Then Obito bringing it back would not change anything.

2. Kakashi was a dumbass if he thought kamui could do shit to juubi
Well, Obito disagrees, otherwise he wouldn't have interfered.

3. Kamui cannot be used in the other dimension
It can, of course. Otherwise Kakashi wouldn't be able to return after being sent there by Obito.
When people say that it can't be used, they most often think of the moment when Obito's mask was broken and say "Why didn't Obito kamui back to avoid the attack? Obviously he couldn't have used kamui!". The explanation is simple - the reason Obito ended in the other dimension in the first place was because of a bijuudama explosion in the "real" dimension. So, when he saw incoming Rasengan, his options were to take it to the mask or take a bijuudama to the chest. The choice was obvious.

4. Minato will help Kakashi against Obito
Unless Kakashi and Obito return from the other dimension, no chance. Minato is not able to travel between the "real" and kamui dimensions. And if you say "well, you don't know, maybe he can", my answer is: Minato has himself stated that if Tobi kamuied him, he wouldn't be able to return.


That's it, the most common current misconceptions.

 

[cptenn94]

uhhh your not entirely correct

obito has not been shown to be able to kamui extremely large objects like a bijuu....kakashi is only able to do it because of kurama chakra

meaning if juubi is on the dimmension, obito cannot kamui it back(though it would not be very wise, as obito could have a safe environment to become the jinchuriki)


so he was gonna try to kamui the whole thing....he was hopeing to get it while obito was busy but obviously obito screwed up his plans...so then he decided to keep obito busy

 

[tripol]

Very true. Photo won't be able to kamui juubi back because of the chakra requirement

 

[tripol]

Sorry obito

 

[Takos]

uhhh your not entirely correct

obito has not been shown to be able to kamui extremely large objects like a bijuu....kakashi is only able to do it because of kurama chakra

meaning if juubi is on the dimmension, obito cannot kamui it back(though it would not be very wise, as obito could have a safe environment to become the jinchuriki)


so he was gonna try to kamui the whole thing....he was hopeing to get it while obito was busy but obviously obito screwed up his plans...so then he decided to keep obito busy

I have also thought about this. I agree, it's a valid theory. However, no matter whether this or my theory is correct, Kakashi knew well that after he was done, juubi would not be a problem anymore. Obito knew this as well, hence he stopped Kakashi.

 

[KCMNaruto]

Hahahaha, Are you kidding me man

You clear nothing, it is only your opinion. Nowhere you stated proof and manga can be interpreted in different ways depending on our point of view until manga states something as facts.

I'll go straight to the point.

1. Kakashi was a dumbass if he thought he could kamui Juubi and Obito would not be able to kamui it back
We have no idea whether Kakashi tried to kamui a WHOLE juubi. According to (a more reliable) *********** translation, Kakashi wanted to "erase" the juubi, which can be interpreted as killing it. So, Kakashi might have simply wanted to kamui its head off, for all we know. Then Obito bringing it back would not change anything.

You are right but until last part("Kakashi might have simply wanted to kamui its head off, for all we know. Then Obito bringing it back would not change anything. ") it is true statement, BUT We don't know true power/abilities of Juubi, It could simply bring itself head back(JUUBI IS ORIGIN OF SHARINGAN POWERS. IT IS CHANCE THAT JUUBI COULD USE KAMUI) and reatach it to rest of it's body or regenerates it's head(using nature ), remember Juubi is made of nature chakra

2. Kakashi was a dumbass if he thought kamui could do shit to juubi
Well, Obito disagrees, otherwise he wouldn't have interfered.

^^This is funny as hell=D(hahahha, ok I calm down). Seriously this is totally wrong statement with no proof to back up this statement. OBITO HAS NO IDEA WHAT JUUBI CAN DO(maybe Madara has), for ****ing God sake Obito didn't have and still doesn't have EMS so he couldn't read most part of Uchiha Tablet and I doubt Madara would tell Obito everything. Obito most likely reacted instinctively to protect Juubi, because he thought it would work or simply didn't want to take risk that it would worked on Juubi.

Besides Juubi is Progenitor of Shinobi World(GOD), origin of sharingan powers and the most powerfull tailed beast. I refuse to believe that something like Kamui would work on Juubi cause:

1) Juubi as ORIGIN OF SHARINGAN POWERS, could simply NULIFY KAMUI, USE HIS OWN KAMUI or simply WON'T BE AFFECTED (maybe something godly as Juubi can't be sent to other dimenssion) besides JUUBI MAY BE EVEN CREATED OTHER DIMENSSION OR IT WAS HIS HOMELAND !

2) Juubi as the most powerfull tailed beast, can't be killed(bijuu can't be killed as we know) so Juubi could simply regenarate it's lost parts of body.

3) Juubi as nature force can't be killed or sent in other dimenssion because it may be responsible for existence of nature/World.

4) As godly beast Juubi could have it's own way to counter Kamui or simply it maybe unaffected by human attacks. Besides Juubi could be able to travel between dimenssions, so maybe it could come back or destory other dimenssion breaking wall of Space and Time which split normal world from other dimenssion and come back(somethng as Buu did to get out of Hyperbolic Time Chamber).

5) Madara wasn't even worried when Kakashi was going to use Kamui at Juubi. Besides even Obito wasn't worried when he came at Kakashi, it would be simply random considence that Obito decided to settle his conflict with Kakashi finally while Kakashi prepared to use Kamui.

6) Kishi didn't pull too much importance or drama for bad guys to worry when Kakashi was going to use Kamui at Juubi, because it would most likely unaffected Juubi. There is even strong possiblity that it was just attack of despair from Kakashi, as he wanted at least to try something to stop Juubi even if it doesn't work he would have be in peace with himself that he used all avaliable abilities

7) Even Kakashi wasn't confident that it would work but he was determined to use everything to stop Juubi or at least try to stop Juubi even if it doesn't work.

Sorry, Kakashi fanboy but until I see Kamui working on Juubi or direct statement from Kishimoto that it would work. I won't admit that you are right, even opposite you are totally wrong.

I USED PURE SPECULATION AGAINST YOUR SPECULATION(WE BOTH DONT HAVE PROOF)

that why it is useless to argue about it, until you or I got proof

Juubi(God) > Kakashi(kamui) deal with it

3. Kamui cannot be used in the other dimension
It can, of course. Otherwise Kakashi wouldn't be able to return after being sent there by Obito.
When people say that it can't be used, they most often think of the moment when Obito's mask was broken and say "Why didn't Obito kamui back to avoid the attack? Obviously he couldn't have used kamui!". The explanation is simple - the reason Obito ended in the other dimension in the first place was because of a bijuudama explosion in the "real" dimension. So, when he saw incoming Rasengan, his options were to take it to the mask or take a bijuudama to the chest. The choice was obvious.

^^This, there is high possibility that you are right with this point, but again this is only your opinion based on your intepretation of manga. Sadly you still lack proof so most likely you are right(based on circumstances and using logic) but there slight possiblity that it wouldn't work until manga say confirms your interpretation.

4. Minato will help Kakashi against Obito
Unless Kakashi and Obito return from the other dimension, no chance. Minato is not able to travel between the "real" and kamui dimensions. And if you say "well, you don't know, maybe he can", my answer is: Minato has himself stated that if Tobi kamuied him, he wouldn't be able to return.

Wow, at this one you are completly right, because you backed up your statement with proof, that it

That's it, the most common current misconceptions.

Yeah, Thank you very much for clearing two from four of these misconceptions. #3th and #4th points are good, #1th is not bad, and you are most likely right but still there slight chance that you are wrong. However #2th you are TOTALLY WRONG

I: "Kishi, did you hear someone says that Kakashi's Kamui could work on Juubi"
Kishi: " WHAT !!! hahahah, don't bother yourself, fanboysim is strong with this one"
Kishi(can't stop laughing): "Kakashi solo Juubi thread cause me to rolling in pain from laughter"(rolling on ground while laughing)
I: Kishi, so what do you say your fans ?
Kishi(calm down and sit down): "Juubi solo Kakashi any day and any night"

fanboys dealt with it

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[Takos]

Hahahaha, Are you kidding me man

You clear nothing, it is only your opinion. Nowhere you stated proof and manga can be interpreted in different ways depending on our point of view until manga states something as facts.



You are right but until last part("Kakashi might have simply wanted to kamui its head off, for all we know. Then Obito bringing it back would not change anything. ") it is true statement, BUT We don't know true power/abilities of Juubi, It could simply bring itself head back(JUUBI IS ORIGIN OF SHARINGAN POWERS. IT IS CHANCE THAT JUUBI COULD USE KAMUI) and reatach it to rest of it's body or regenerates it's head(using nature ), remember Juubi is made of nature chakra



^^This is funny as hell=D(hahahha, ok I calm down). Seriously this is totally wrong statement with no proof to back up this statement. OBITO HAS NO IDEA WHAT JUUBI CAN DO(maybe Madara has), for ****ing God sake Obito didn't have and still doesn't have EMS so he couldn't read most part of Uchiha Tablet and I doubt Madara would tell Obito everything. Obito most likely reacted instinctively to protect Juubi, because he thought it would work or simply didn't want to take risk that it would worked on Juubi.

Besides Juubi is Progenitor of Shinobi World(GOD), origin of sharingan powers and the most powerfull tailed beast. I refuse to believe that something like Kamui would work on Juubi cause:

1) Juubi as ORIGIN OF SHARINGAN POWERS, could simply NULIFY KAMUI, USE HIS OWN KAMUI or simply WON'T BE AFFECTED (maybe something godly as Juubi can't be sent to other dimenssion) besides JUUBI MAY BE EVEN CREATED OTHER DIMENSSION OR IT WAS HIS HOMELAND !

2) Juubi as the most powerfull tailed beast, can't be killed(bijuu can't be killed as we know) so Juubi could simply regenarate it's lost parts of body.

3) Juubi as nature force can't be killed or sent in other dimenssion because it may be responsible for existence of nature/World.

4) As godly beast Juubi could have it's own way to counter Kamui or simply it maybe unaffected by human attacks. Besides Juubi could be able to travel between dimenssions, so maybe it could come back or destory other dimenssion breaking wall of Space and Time which split normal world from other dimenssion and come back(somethng as Buu did to get out of Hyperbolic Time Chamber).

5) Madara wasn't even worried when Kakashi was going to use Kamui at Juubi. Besides even Obito wasn't worried when he came at Kakashi, it would be simply random considence that Obito decided to settle his conflict with Kakashi finally while Kakashi prepared to use Kamui.

6) Kishi didn't pull too much importance or drama for bad guys to worry when Kakashi was going to use Kamui at Juubi, because it would most likely unaffected Juubi. There is even strong possiblity that it was just attack of despair from Kakashi, as he wanted at least to try something to stop Juubi even if it doesn't work he would have be in peace with himself that he used all avaliable abilities

7) Even Kakashi wasn't confident that it would work but he was determined to use everything to stop Juubi or at least try to stop Juubi even if it doesn't work.

Sorry, Kakashi fanboy but until I see Kamui working on Juubi or direct statement from Kishimoto that it would work. I won't admit that you are right, even opposite you are totally wrong.

I USED PURE SPECULATION AGAINST YOUR SPECULATION(WE BOTH DONT HAVE PROOF)

that why it is useless to argue about it, until you or I got proof

Juubi(God) > Kakashi(kamui) deal with it



^^This, there is high possibility that you are right with this point, but again this is only your opinion based on your intepretation of manga. Sadly you still lack proof so most likely you are right(based on circumstances and using logic) but there slight possiblity that it wouldn't work until manga say confirms your interpretation.



Wow, at this one you are completly right, because you backed up your statement with proof, that it



Yeah, Thank you very much for clearing two from four of these misconceptions. #3th and #4th points are good, #1th is not bad, and you are most likely right but still there slight chance that you are wrong. However #2th you are TOTALLY WRONG

I: "Kishi, did you hear someone says that Kakashi's Kamui could work on Juubi"
Kishi: " WHAT !!! hahahah, don't bother yourself, fanboysim is strong with this one"
Kishi(can't stop laughing): "Kakashi solo Juubi thread cause me to rolling in pain from laughter"(rolling on ground while laughing)
I: Kishi, so what do you say your fans ?
Kishi(calm down and sit down): "Juubi solo Kakashi any day and any night"

fanboys dealt with it

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You should probably calm down first.
Glad to hear we agree at least on some of my points.

^^This is funny as hell(hahahha, ok I calm down). Seriously this is totally wrong statement with no proof to back up this statement. OBITO HAS NO IDEA WHAT JUUBI CAN DO(maybe Madara has), for ****ing God sake Obito didn't have and still doesn't have EMS so he couldn't read most part of Uchiha Tablet and I doubt Madara would tell Obito everything. Obito most likely reacted instinctively to protect Juubi, because he thought it would work or simply didn't want to take risk that it would worked on Juubi.

I understand your point here. I also know that it comes down to your unproved speculation vs my speculation.
However, I'll tell you why I think mine is more legit.

The basis of your speculation is that Juubi is a god.
In other words, the argument is something like: "Kamui won't work on Juubi, because Juubi is too powerful". This is a bad reasoning to me, but it is SOME argument.
Now, what about my speculation? It is backed by several arguments:
1) So far no one except for Obito has been able to stop Kamui (confirmed by Kakashi when he was wondering if his and Tobi's techniques are linked)
2) Kakashi thought a Kamui against Juubi would be successful
3) Obito thought a Kamui against Juubi would be successful
To me, each of these three arguments is more convincing than the one mentioned earlier. But as I said, I understand your point.

^^This, there is high possibility that you are right with this point, but again this is only your opinion based on your intepretation of manga. Sadly you still lack proof so most likely you are right(based on circumstances and using logic) but there slight possiblity that it wouldn't work until manga say confirms your interpretation.

Here, however, I totally disagree. There is a proof of kamui working in the other dimension and this proof is, Kakashi using it to return to the real world. So no, it's not only my opinion - Kakashi using Kamui in the alternate dimension is a manga fact.

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[KCMNaruto]

You should probably calm down first.
Glad to hear we agree at least on some of my points.

Ok, Maybe I was too crazy about this topic, because I hate when some Kakashi fanboys/wankers come and say that: "Kakashi can solo Juubi/Sage of six paths cause of Kamui", no this it totally wrong statement and I refuse to agree to this statement, morever I am sure Kishi would refuse as well.

No problem, If I saw in these points that you had right then I will admit that you are right and give you praise

I understand your point here. I also know that it comes down to your unproved speculation vs my speculation.
However, I'll tell you why I think mine is more legit.

The basis of your speculation is that Juubi is a god.
In other words, the argument is something like: "Kamui won't work on Juubi, because Juubi is too powerful". This is a bad reasoning to me, but it is SOME argument.
Now, what about my speculation? It is backed by several arguments:
1) So far no one except for Obito has been able to stop Kamui (confirmed by Kakashi when he was wondering if his and Tobi's techniques are linked)
2) Kakashi thought a Kamui against Juubi would be successful
3) Obito thought a Kamui against Juubi would be successful
To me, each of these three arguments is more convincing than the one mentioned earlier. But as I said, I understand your point.

Sorry, it doesn't work I can't accept your point of view, but I UNDERSTAND IT AND AT LEAST RESPECT IT.

1) Agree, however we still don't know Juubi powers/abilities, Doesn't shown!=can't do.

Besides my point of view is backed up as well:

- Juubi is shown with Rinnengan and Sharingan eyes combined, so it may be origin of Sharingan powers(The most logical), however I still admit that manga doesn't directly confirms my point of view, so it is only speculation

2) Doesn't prove anything. With all mine respect for Kakashi in my opinion it was just ACT OF DESPERATION FROM KAKASHI. HE FELT THAT JUUBI IS GOING TO USE SOMETHING VERY DANGEROUS, SO HE DECIDED TO TRY USE HIS KAMUI ON JUUBI(Why could he believe it would work ?, becuase Obito blocked/messed with his Kamui before when he tried to attack Gedo Mazou). Kakashi was only guessing that I could work, besides he thought it would be better to at least try even if it doesn't work on Juubi, He would in peace with yourself that he used very methods/abilities to stop this godly beast.

That at least how human mind works, IT IS BETTER TO USE ALL MEANS THEN EVEN IF IT DOESN'T WORK THEN THINKING THAT YOU COULD STILL USE SOMETHING AND IT WOULD WORK

3) Obito thought a Kamui against Juubi would be successful,

AGAIN PURE SPECULATION. How would Obito even know what Juubi is capable of. AS I SAID IT WOULD BE RANDOM CONSIDENCE THAT OBITO STEP IN WHILE KAKASHI WAS ABOUT TO USE KAMUI OR OBITO JUST REACTED ON INSTINCT TO PROTECT JUUBI WITHOUT ANY KNOWLEDGE IF IT WOULD WORK OR NO. Besids WHY WOULD OBITO TAKE RISK EVEN IF IT DOESN'T WORK ON JUUBI

my point of view is backed up by:

- Madara wasn't worried when kakashi was about to use Kamui
- Kishi didn't pull too much importance or create effect of drama when Kakashi was about to use Kamui. It looked more like(WE MUST DO SOMETHING, WHATEVER WHAT TO STOP THIS MONSTER), in other words ACT OF DESPERATION. EVEN KAKASHI HIMSELF WASN'T CONFIDENT, HE SIMPLY DECIDED TO PUT ALL HIS BETS THAT KAMUI WILL WORK ON JUUBI, in other words he put all one's eggs in one basket because he knows that nothing other will work on JUUBI.

3) Obito didn't have and doesn't have EMS so he couldn't know all content is written on tablet. Besides I even doubt that SOSP wrote every Juubi ability or that Kamui would work, He COULDNT EVEN KNOW IF IT WORK OR NO.

I backed up my opinions with some stuff from manga, so sorry but I won't accept your point of view HOWEVER I STILL UNDERSTAND YOU AND RESPECT YOUR OPINION, but in my opinion it is wrong.

proof[/B] of kamui working in the other dimension and this proof is, Kakashi using it to return to the real world. So no, it's not only my opinion - Kakashi using Kamui in the alternate dimension is a manga fact.

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hmm..., Strange I agree with all statement maybe you mistunderstood me here. I said that "Obito being able to use Kamui(intangibility) while being in other dimenssion, while sending his part of body to real world" is only statement I disagree because you have not proof, here. However it is most likely right but until manga confirms this statement, it is only opinon.

HOWEVER I AGREE COMPLETLY WITH YOUR STATEMENT ABOUT KAKASHI

SORRY for my disrespect and bad attitude towards you man before. I thought that you are one of these Kakashi fanboys/wankers who argue without backing up their statements or don't even accept another point of view.

I am happy that you proved me that I was wrong, I enjoyed our discussion and as I said I RESPECT YOUR OPINION

EDIT: Finally it looks like I agree with you on your three points from four you stated. However I can't agree with you on #2th. We have completly different point of view at this point

 

[Takos]

hmm..., Strange I agree with all statement maybe you mistunderstood me here. I said that "Obito being able to use Kamui(intangibility) while being in other dimenssion, while sending his part of body to real world" is only statement I disagree because you have not proof, here. However it is most likely right but until manga confirms this statement, it is only opinon.

HOWEVER I AGREE COMPLETLY WITH YOUR STATEMENT ABOUT KAKASHI

SORRY for my disrespect and bad attitude towards you man before. I thought that you are one of these Kakashi fanboys/wankers who argue without backing up their statements or don't even accept another point of view.

I am happy that you proved me that I was wrong, I enjoyed our discussion and as I said I RESPECT YOUR OPINION

It's alright, I understand and accept your argument and I'm glad you do the same =D
Cheers.