[Discussion] Clearing Misconceptions: Amaterasu, Susano'o, and Enton: Kagutsuchi

ANiMUS

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I know that this is kind of an old topic, but from what I have seen a lot of members have a misconception about how Sasuke's Enton works and even some even believe that Sasuke preps Amaterasu before on his Susano'o.


Amaterasu
So to start off this is the viz description of Amaterasu from the data book.
Amaterasu is the highest level Fire Release technique, that can only be used by those that awaken the Magenkyou Sharingan
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The traditional sign of someone using Amaterasu is there eye's bleeding, because of the strain that the technique puts on the user. However there is one occasion of Sasuke using Amaterasu without his eye bleeding.
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Some people say that the reason for this is that Sasuke can use small amounts of flames without bleeding, but it most likely an artist mistake because Sasuke in a later chapter uses an even smaller flame and his eyes still bled.
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Susano'o

This is Sasuke's susano'o, When in this form with or without legs it has two armaments. A bow, and an orb that resembles flames, but is composed of Susano'o chakra. Sasuke uses this orb to perform shape manipulation and create either swords or an arrow.
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When Sasuke was on the brink of exaustion he managed to summon the same level of Susano'o as Itachi and in its right hand was a black flame orb in place of the orb made of Susano'o chakra that he had during v2.
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This orb is not Sasuke simply using the technique on the Susano'o hand nor is it Sasuke covering the orb of Susano'o chakra in black. Why???
1. Sasuke's eyes have never bled from summoning the black flame orb, and in case you are one of the ones that believe that is only an issue of the amount of black flames, as I have stated earlier Sasuke has created smaller amaterasu flames in later chapters and his eyes still bled.

2. That orb isn't just covered in Amaterasu flames because it is not as solid.
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Enton: Kagutsuchi

Ok, for this section I have a couple of questions. As I have stated there have been no credible instances of Sasuke using amaterasu and his eyes not bleeding so how does this happen?
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I actually would like your input on this, but anyway here is my theory on how this works. First lets take a look at Kakashi's Kamui.
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This technique is focused on the user's line of sight, just like Amaterasu, but Obito's Kamui works in a different way entirely. From what I can tell Obito's Kamui uses his eye like a whirlpool and sucks either himself or others that his is touching into the Kamui dimension, but there is another function to Obito's Kamui. Obito can channel the technique through his body and place himself in between dimensions and as a result make himself intangible.

I believe that Sasuke's eyes can work in the same way as Obito's Kamui. This is the description for Blaze Release according to the Naruto wikia.
Blaze Release (炎遁, Enton; Viz "Inferno Style") is an advanced chakra nature kekkei genkai of the Uchiha clan, that allows them to manipulate black flames.
And as we know Amaterasu is the technique that produces black flames. Now let us take a look at the description for water release
Water Release (水遁, Suiton; English TV "Water Style") is one of the basic elemental nature transformation techniques that allow the user to manipulate pre-existing water, or create their own, by turning their chakra into water
That is actually the way most elements are. (Outside of manipulating real pre-existing element) The user either user their chakra to create the element or mold their chakra in a way to simulate that element and then manipulate it.

It is possible that Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi in Sasuke's body work in a way to allow Sasuke to produce Blaze Release within Sasuke's body, allowing him to use it in a way similar to his chidori where he can just summon the Enton chakra and utilize the chakra as he sees fit. So if Sasuke can use produce and shape black flames on his own then what use are his eyes? Well, aside from allowing the process to take place Amaterasu fires a greater quantity over at a longer distance. And Kagutsuchi done from the eye can most likely offer greater control and possibly even manipulate Sasuke's flames and from a distance.

Preemptive statement

Some of you might say something like didn't Sasuke just cast Amaterasu on his hand and thin manipulate it with Kagutsuchi this chapter. :sweat:
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If you notice here amaterasu has created an area of melted water that actually overshadows the area that Kaguya left in between Naruto and Sasuke. If the black flames were placed on Sasuke's arm then the water would seep in to area that Kaguya left, but since it didn't Sasuke from the looks of it positioned his flames more to the right of him and Naruto.

Thanks for reading
 

BlacLord™

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Are you asking why Enton doesn't make his eye bleed? The answer is pretty obvious.

One eye is creating the flames (Burn baby burn or in this case, bleed baby bleed) and the other is merely using shape manipulation of already existing flames.
 

ANiMUS

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Are you asking why Enton doesn't make his eye bleed? The answer is pretty obvious.

One eye is creating the flames (Burn baby burn or in this case, bleed baby bleed) and the other is merely using shape manipulation of already existing flames.
Creating the flames should still cause his eye to bleed though, but there have been two occasions of him using Kagatsuchi and there was no blood from creating the black flames
 

ANiMUS

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What exactly did you clear up?
Basically, the only thing that I really cleared up was that Sasuke's black flame orb is not from him using Amaterasu on the Susano'o hand and no matter what the size of flame Sasuke tries to use, if he uses Amaterasu his eye always bleeds.
 
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Sound

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Nice explanation. I remember on Part 1 Amaterasu being mentioned to be a techniques which summoned the black flames of hell hence the eye blood. Susanoo was also mentioned to be a summoned deity that protected the caster at some point

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ANiMUS

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Nice explanation. I remember on Part 1 Amaterasu being mentioned to be a techniques which summoned the black flames of hell hence the eye blood. Susanoo was also mentioned to be a summoned deity that protected the caster at some point

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Thanks, and its kinda funny that as the show goes on nothing seems to live up to the hype of the databook XD

Flames of hell was definitely over kill
 
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Enton: Kagutsuchi and Amaterasu are two different techniques as shown in the manga panel.
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Amaterasu creates the flame with the left eye and he controls its shape and form with the right eye.
//
 
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Rabbit Teth

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I might have missed something, but aren't all the instances you cite of Sasuke not bleeding from his eyes using Amaterasu from the time after he has had his brother's eyes implanted. Sasuke from the start of the war has Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan aka the eyes that never lose their light. One of the advantages of EMS is that the user can spam all those techniques that previously came at enormous physical cost.

Unfortunately that then leaves the question over why Sasuke's new Sharingsn / Rinnegan bleeds - I didn't notice it before but I figure this new eye comes at a price.
 

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I might have missed something, but aren't all the instances you cite of Sasuke not bleeding from his eyes using Amaterasu from the time after he has had his brother's eyes implanted. Sasuke from the start of the war has Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan aka the eyes that never lose their light. One of the advantages of EMS is that the user can spam all those techniques that previously came at enormous physical cost.

Unfortunately that then leaves the question over why Sasuke's new Sharingsn / Rinnegan bleeds - I didn't notice it before but I figure this new eye comes at a price.
His eye bled when he fought Kabuto, and did the ring of Amaterasu.
 

Rabbit Teth

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His eye bled when he fought Kabuto, and did the ring of Amaterasu.
Assuming it's not a mistake and that there is some sensible explanation that hasn't yet been revealed (a big assumption given how frequent these kinds of mistakes occur … Raikage's hand), it might have something to do with the brothers being around (in the impure realm) at the same time. Edo Tensei really shouldn't duplicate powers when the eyes have been passed on to use by somebody else still alive. (I'm not sure if Madara / Nagato / Obito were ever using the Rinnegan at the same time during the war but I don't think they overlapped)

The eye that Itachi uses for Izanami is the same eye that Sasuke has turned into a Rinnegan / Sharingan crossbreed. Perhaps Edo Tensei was messing with his EMS when the pair activated Amaterasu at the sane time and then Sasuke later was only able to upgrade the one eye because the other was still corrupted by EMS (which seems all kinds of wrong as technique and is probably incompatible with the Sage's power boost).

At least that would be the beginning of a theory.
 

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I know that this is kind of an old topic, but from what I have seen a lot of members have a misconception about how Sasuke's Enton works and even some even believe that Sasuke preps Amaterasu before on his Susano'o.


Amaterasu
So to start off this is the viz description of Amaterasu from the data book.
You must be registered for see images
The traditional sign of someone using Amaterasu is there eye's bleeding, because of the strain that the technique puts on the user. However there is one occasion of Sasuke using Amaterasu without his eye bleeding.
You must be registered for see images
Some people say that the reason for this is that Sasuke can use small amounts of flames without bleeding, but it most likely an artist mistake because Sasuke in a later chapter uses an even smaller flame and his eyes still bled.
You must be registered for see images

Susano'o

This is Sasuke's susano'o, When in this form with or without legs it has two armaments. A bow, and an orb that resembles flames, but is composed of Susano'o chakra. Sasuke uses this orb to perform shape manipulation and create either swords or an arrow.
You must be registered for see images

When Sasuke was on the brink of exaustion he managed to summon the same level of Susano'o as Itachi and in its right hand was a black flame orb in place of the orb made of Susano'o chakra that he had during v2.
You must be registered for see images

This orb is not Sasuke simply using the technique on the Susano'o hand nor is it Sasuke covering the orb of Susano'o chakra in black. Why???
1. Sasuke's eyes have never bled from summoning the black flame orb, and in case you are one of the ones that believe that is only an issue of the amount of black flames, as I have stated earlier Sasuke has created smaller amaterasu flames in later chapters and his eyes still bled.

2. That orb isn't just covered in Amaterasu flames because it is not as solid.
You must be registered for see images

Enton: Kagutsuchi

Ok, for this section I have a couple of questions. As I have stated there have been no credible instances of Sasuke using amaterasu and his eyes not bleeding so how does this happen?
You must be registered for see images
You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

I actually would like your input on this, but anyway here is my theory on how this works. First lets take a look at Kakashi's Kamui.
You must be registered for see images
This technique is focused on the user's line of sight, just like Amaterasu, but Obito's Kamui works in a different way entirely. From what I can tell Obito's Kamui uses his eye like a whirlpool and sucks either himself or others that his is touching into the Kamui dimension, but there is another function to Obito's Kamui. Obito can channel the technique through his body and place himself in between dimensions and as a result make himself intangible.

I believe that Sasuke's eyes can work in the same way as Obito's Kamui. This is the description for Blaze Release according to the Naruto wikia.

And as we know Amaterasu is the technique that produces black flames. Now let us take a look at the description for water release


That is actually the way most elements are. (Outside of manipulating real pre-existing element) The user either user their chakra to create the element or mold their chakra in a way to simulate that element and then manipulate it.

It is possible that Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi in Sasuke's body work in a way to allow Sasuke to produce Blaze Release within Sasuke's body, allowing him to use it in a way similar to his chidori where he can just summon the Enton chakra and utilize the chakra as he sees fit. So if Sasuke can use produce and shape black flames on his own then what use are his eyes? Well, aside from allowing the process to take place Amaterasu fires a greater quantity over at a longer distance. And Kagutsuchi done from the eye can most likely offer greater control and possibly even manipulate Sasuke's flames and from a distance.

Preemptive statement

Some of you might say something like didn't Sasuke just cast Amaterasu on his hand and thin manipulate it with Kagutsuchi this chapter. :sweat:
You must be registered for see images

If you notice here amaterasu has created an area of melted water that actually overshadows the area that Kaguya left in between Naruto and Sasuke. If the black flames were placed on Sasuke's arm then the water would seep in to area that Kaguya left, but since it didn't Sasuke from the looks of it positioned his flames more to the right of him and Naruto.

Thanks for reading
idk, seems like the bleeding amaterasu w/ EMS is just a nerf to keep sasuke from spamming it.
 
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