[Discussion] Clarification: I just don't understand how so many feel they are "EQUALS"?

[InfamousB]

As the title stated, I simply don't understand why all of a sudden people feel sasuke and naruto are "EQUALS". I simply disagree entirely with this as sasuke has been superior to naruto the entire series. I would like to clarify a few points on why I personally feel they are not, and why I feel they will never be.

This is by no means a thread to start a flame war, so people please, keep your personal character attachments out of it and use common logic. =D

Now, hear me out if you guys will. The reason I feel they are not equals is because the entire series naruto has relied on a borrowed power from a completely different entity in itself, "Kurama". It's been obvious the entire series that naruto has needed the power of his "Bijuu" and the power of "Bijuu's" to compete with kekkai genkai level shinobi correct? AKA "The Sharingan" or "Sasuke" to be precise.

If It wasn't for the power of Kurama, naruto would of completely been beat, low difficulty by sasuke at the final valley as a 3T Sharigan sasuke was able to comfortably beat naruto under the influence of kurama chakra.

Spoiler

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It wasn't till kurama partially came out, and naruto temporally gained the ability to use chakra arms for the first time was he able to push sasuke into a corner forcing sasuke to use the curse mark.

Spoiler

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Getting into shippuden, Orochimaru admitted at one point....even using the power of his bijuu he still had a long way to go to catch up to sasuke in power.

Spoiler

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And we all know naruto has admitted on multiple occasions he was not as strong as sasuke was, and inevitably it resorted to this..

Spoiler

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Anyways, enough with the images.... so my question to my fellows naruto fans of NB...... can you truly call them equals? if my strength is inferior to another's, and I have to rely heavily on someone else's, or something else's power to put me on equal grounds to be able to fight this person does that really make us equal? I don't believe so, so how can people bluntly yell THEY ARE EQUALS !! No, they are not, and they have never been, never will be as long as naruto has borrowed power from other entity's.

But lets take a look into whats considered naruto true power that he worked his ass off for.
Sage Modo: Now I will admit, naruto worked hard for sage mode. But what is sage mode? Sage mode is the result of drawing in nature energy inside oneself to create senjutsu correct? And I hate to go to this extinct but either way, he is still drawing in power "THAT IS NOT HIS OWN" Before you guys start yelling let me ask u this; How is naruto drawing in energy from outside to obtain sage mode any different from Goku using the spirit bomb in dragon ball z ? They are both drawing energy from outside, that is not their own, period.

Now I know what everybody's counter argument is going to be; "Sasuke has his brothers eye's" I'm not a hypocrite, I understand this. But unlike naruto, sasuke obtaining his brothers eyes only prevented him from being blind, and aloud him to continue fighting as a warrior honing "Abilities that he already had obtained through training, and continue to adapt, and make them more powerful" I mean honestly, it's not like after sasuke obtained his brothers eyes he was able to; give 100,000 people in a shinobi alliance a chakra cloak, 11 of which a BM cloak, Shoot multiple TBB's, fight for who knows how many days straight, get beat down, Coak off, cloak on, constantly pull chakra from an unlimited chakra demon monster aka "Kurama" right? lol.

To wrap things up, I personally feel the only reason kishi decided to state this whole "They will be equals in the end, and people came up with this delusion that they are equals" is because it simply doesn't make sense that on the path that things were going, sasuke being stronger than the main character just wouldn't sit right. So giving naruto a bijuu, and now the power of multiple bijuu's calling him the sage's successor and the one who will wield the power of all bijuu's to bring peace, balance, and tranquility to the shinobi world.... 'LOL star wars quote, Anakin Skywalker " Was kishi way of making them equal since sasuke has considerably been ahead.

In my honest opinion, that does not make them equals, and I don't feel they are. What are you guys thoughts?

 

[Early Man]

Re: Clarification: I just don't understand how so many feel they are "EQUALS"?

Sasuke is stronger imo, but not by much

 

[Hokage Jay]

Re: Clarification: I just don't understand how so many feel they are "EQUALS"?

If Sasuke wasn't born an Uchiha how good do u think he'd be

 

[Made in Heaven]

Re: Clarification: I just don't understand how so many feel they are "EQUALS"?

Naruto>sasuke ever since this war started, and he is still passing him.
9 bijjuus + sage mode > Ems

 

[konikka123]

Re: Clarification: I just don't understand how so many feel they are "EQUALS"?

Troll Faced

 

[davidou]

Re: Clarification: I just don't understand how so many feel they are "EQUALS"?

As the title stated, I simply don't understand why all of a sudden people feel sasuke and naruto are "EQUALS". I simply disagree entirely with this as sasuke has been superior to naruto the entire series. I would like to clarify a few points on why I personally feel they are not, and why I feel they will never be.

This is by no means a thread to start a flame war, so people please, keep your personal character attachments out of it and use common logic. =D

Now, hear me out if you guys will. The reason I feel they are not equals is because the entire series naruto has relied on a borrowed power from a completely different entity in itself, "Kurama". It's been obvious the entire series that naruto has needed the power of his "Bijuu" and the power of "Bijuu's" to compete with kekkai genkai level shinobi correct? AKA "The Sharingan" or "Sasuke" to be precise.

If It wasn't for the power of Kurama, naruto would of completely been beat, low difficulty by sasuke at the final valley as a 3T Sharigan sasuke was able to comfortably beat naruto under the influence of kurama chakra.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

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It wasn't till kurama partially came out, and naruto temporally gained the ability to use chakra arms for the first time was he able to push sasuke into a corner forcing sasuke to use the curse mark.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Getting into shippuden, Orochimaru admitted at one point....even using the power of his bijuu he still had a long way to go to catch up to sasuke in power.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

And we all know naruto has admitted on multiple occasions he was not as strong as sasuke was, and inevitably it resorted to this..

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Anyways, enough with the images.... so my question to my fellows naruto fans of NB...... can you truly call them equals? if my strength is inferior to another's, and I have to rely heavily on someone else's, or something else's power to put me on equal grounds to be able to fight this person does that really make us equal? I don't believe so, so how can people bluntly yell THEY ARE EQUALS !! No, they are not, and they have never been, never will be as long as naruto has borrowed power from other entity's.

But lets take a look into whats considered naruto true power that he worked his ass off for.
Sage Modo: Now I will admit, naruto worked hard for sage mode. But what is sage mode? Sage mode is the result of drawing in nature energy inside oneself to create senjutsu correct? And I hate to go to this extinct but either way, he is still drawing in power "THAT IS NOT HIS OWN" Before you guys start yelling let me ask u this; How is naruto drawing in energy from outside to obtain sage mode any different from Goku using the spirit bomb in dragon ball z ? They are both drawing energy from outside, that is not their own, period.

Now I know what everybody's counter argument is going to be; "Sasuke has his brothers eye's" I'm not a hypocrite, I understand this. But unlike naruto, sasuke obtaining his brothers eyes only prevented him from being blind, and aloud him to continue fighting as a warrior honing "Abilities that he already had obtained through training, and continue to adapt, and make them more powerful" I mean honestly, it's not like after sasuke obtained his brothers eyes he was able to; give 100,000 people in a shinobi alliance a chakra cloak, 11 of which a BM cloak, Shoot multiple TBB's, fight for who knows how many days straight, get beat down, Coak off, cloak on, constantly pull chakra from an unlimited chakra demon monster aka "Kurama" right? lol.

To wrap things up, I personally feel the only reason kishi decided to state this whole "They will be equals in the end, and people came up with this delusion that they are equals" is because it simply doesn't make sense that on the path that things were going, sasuke being stronger than the main character just wouldn't sit right. So giving naruto a bijuu, and now the power of multiple bijuu's calling him the sage's successor and the one who will wield the power of all bijuu's to bring peace, balance, and tranquility to the shinobi world.... 'LOL star wars quote, Anakin Skywalker " Was kishi way of making them equal since sasuke has considerably been ahead.

In my honest opinion, that does not make them equals, and I don't feel they are. What are you guys thoughts?

All that text for just one stupid argument : Naruto have borrowed powers , funny.

Everybody has borrowed powers!

There is no debate here , guys are going to post their opinions.
Sick thread.

 

[Drizzy]

Re: Clarification: I just don't understand how so many feel they are "EQUALS"?

I thought these "borrowed power" arguments died out..It's also funny how you ended the comparison in strength between Naruto and Sasuke ended at the Sasuke and Sai Arc. I believe they're even. Actually, Naruto was stronger a few chapters back, Hagoromo probably just recently made them even.

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[Made in Heaven]

Re: Clarification: I just don't understand how so many feel they are "EQUALS"?

Yep, because the sharingan isn't the juubi's power.

Seriously, every one has borrowed powers

 

[Kaneki Kun]

Re: Clarification: I just don't understand how so many feel they are "EQUALS"?

Just stop.

 

[InfamousB]

Re: Clarification: I just don't understand how so many feel they are "EQUALS"?

Naruto>sasuke ever since this war started, and he is still passing him.
9 bijjuus + sage mode > Ems

lol okay? not even going to get into that discussion. OT; Exactly the point of my thread of naruto having the power of bijuu's to compete, yet people call them equal, in which case makes 0 sense.

If Sasuke wasn't born an Uchiha how good do u think he'd be

Well, don't get me wrong I understand the advantages of being an uchiha, and him being a genius at that, but how does that justify anything in my topic? is it his fault that he has good genetics? or was born into a blessed clan of shinobi? And to answer your question, sasuke being an uchiha doesn't make him the genius he is, being an uchiha gives him an advantage because of their clans trait "The sharingan" which gives him the ability to do what he does.

But lets not forget, sasuke is a battle genius, you cant say that for all uchiha I think you know that? so even if he wasn't an uchiha, I think he still would have an advantage.

All that text for just one stupid argument : Naruto have borrowed powers , funny.

Everybody has borrowed powers!

There is no debate here , guys are going to post their opinions.
Sick thread.

Can't say everybody, Itachi didn't, Shisui didn't, Obito didn't, atleast at the start. I can comfortably say you take all the borrowed power away from everybody in this series and you have every uchiha solo neg diff. But the point of my thread is to why people say they are equals, not just saying naruto has "Borrowed power"

 

[Seventh Sama]

Re: Clarification: I just don't understand how so many feel they are "EQUALS"?

Everyone has borrowed powers since chakra came from the shinju.even the uchiha since the sharingan came from the juubi. It doenst matter tho, naruto and sasuke are equals. Naruto got his power from hard work and cooperation, sasuke got his power from his heritage and naturally being a genius.

 

[Made in Heaven]

Re: Clarification: I just don't understand how so many feel they are "EQUALS"?

Sasuke has EMS thanks to itachi, has sharingan in the first place thanks to Kaguya, and now even has hashirama's DNA

 

[Chie]

Re: Clarification: I just don't understand how so many feel they are "EQUALS"?

I still think that Naruto is stronger actually and always has been since the Zabuza/Haku arc.

1. On the topic of the VotE fight, we all know that it was needed for Sasuke to win in order for plot progression. Sasuke would have been stomped if Naruto summoned Gamabunta

2. Yes. And Oro stated that right before he got slapped around like a rag doll by Naruto

3. In the last scan he meant that he needed to harness it so that he wouldn't lose consciousness again and go out of control, which would result in Sasuke winning. He didn't mean that he needed it in order to beat Sasuke.

Also keep in mind that Naruto being stronger than Sasuke in pt1 is something Sasuke admitted and was one of the factors which caused him to leave Konoha. He couldn't stand the fact that he was not as strong as Naruto & that he was progressing so quickly, so he felt that if he went with Oro he would learn more justu and become stronger than he would in Konoha.

It is also very telling that Naruto himself is usually the only person to say that he's weaker than Sasuke. Whereas with Sasuke, others tell him and he cannot come to terms with it, like Zetsu/Obito told him right after the Pain invasion.

Kurama isn't "unlimited chakra", he however does grant Naruto 96x more chakra than the average person has though. Just because Naruto is good with chakra manipulation doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve it.

By the way on the topic of Sasuke taking Itachi's eyes, it did more than just stop his blindness. His chakra pool increased as well, his stamina improved, he now has the ability to spam techs, etc. Also, right before Itachi died, Obito stated that he transferred his MS techs to him through that forehead tap/fuinjutsu. By the way, when Oro gave Sasuke that CM, it helped him to become immune to poisons and this ability stayed even after Itachi removed it from him. That and Oro experimented on Sasuke's body during the timeskip and made him faster. Sasuke has actually received more powerups from a variety of sources than Naruto has. Naruto gets alot of powerups too, but he usually works to get them and they are pretty much the same thing, just more chakra from the tailed beasts. Sasuke only works after he receives his powerup in order to master them, but rarely works in order to get them like Naruto does.

Both shinobi work hard and are strong, but Naruto has clearly always been the stronger one of the two. Though Kishi has been trying to hide this fact, it'll just be blatantly obvious in the end once Naruto wins in their final fight, if they have one.

 

[vasu 32]

Re: Clarification: I just don't understand how so many feel they are "EQUALS"?

It seems you entirely missed the part of manga where kakashi thinks that if naruto wouldn't be using his more than half % of chakra in compressing the beast he would be 4 times stronger,chakra,etc. than his current state. Now that he no longer needs to compress kurama,you get "the naruto" whose chakra control is off the charts.

No offence but you lost me the moment you used borrowed power thing.

 

[Da Best Ever]

Re: Clarification: I just don't understand how so many feel they are "EQUALS"?

If Sasuke wasn't born an Uchiha how good do u think he'd be

That doesn't matter since both are from noble clans.

 

[Shinichi Izumi]

Re: Clarification: I just don't understand how so many feel they are "EQUALS"?

Sasuke borrowed his power from the curse seal for a lot of the series. Sage mode is NOT a borrowed power, it's a SKILL. You're also saying Sasuke didn't borrow his powers from Itachi.

I hope you didn't ignore what drizzy posted

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[fandum]

Re: Clarification: I just don't understand how so many feel they are "EQUALS"?

I smell a troll...

 

[davidou]

Re: Clarification: I just don't understand how so many feel they are "EQUALS"?

Can't say everybody, Itachi didn't, Shisui didn't, Obito didn't, atleast at the start. I can comfortably say you take all the borrowed power away from everybody in this series and you have every uchiha solo neg diff. But the point of my thread is to why people say they are equals, not just saying naruto has "Borrowed power"

Your love for Uchiha makes you lose vision , everybody has borrowed power from shinju and Kaguya.
You are blinded by Uchiha's sexyness.

 

[Made in Heaven]

Re: Clarification: I just don't understand how so many feel they are "EQUALS"?

There's also the fact that sage mode needs training and so does kcm

 

[Da Best Ever]

Re: Clarification: I just don't understand how so many feel they are "EQUALS"?

I still think that Naruto is stronger actually and always has been since the Zabuza/Haku arc.

1. On the topic of the VotE fight, we all know that it was needed for Sasuke to win in order for plot progression. Sasuke would have been stomped if Naruto summoned Gamabunta

2. Yes. And Oro stated that right before he got slapped around like a rag doll by Naruto

3. In the last scan he meant that he needed to harness it so that he wouldn't lose consciousness again and go out of control, which would result in Sasuke winning. He didn't mean that he needed it in order to beat Sasuke.

Also keep in mind that Naruto being stronger than Sasuke in pt1 is something Sasuke admitted and was one of the factors which caused him to leave Konoha. He couldn't stand the fact that he was not as strong as Naruto & that he was progressing so quickly, so he felt that if he went with Oro he would learn more justu and become stronger than he would in Konoha.

It is also very telling that Naruto himself is usually the only person to say that he's weaker than Sasuke. Whereas with Sasuke, others tell him and he cannot come to terms with it, like Zetsu/Obito told him right after the Pain invasion.

Kurama isn't "unlimited chakra", he however does grant Naruto 96x more chakra than the average person has though. Just because Naruto is good with chakra manipulation doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve it.

By the way on the topic of Sasuke taking Itachi's eyes, it did more than just stop his blindness. His chakra pool increased as well, his stamina improved, he now has the ability to spam techs, etc. Also, right before Itachi died, Obito stated that he transferred his MS techs to him through that forehead tap/fuinjutsu. By the way, when Oro gave Sasuke that CM, it helped him to become immune to poisons and this ability stayed even after Itachi removed it from him. That and Oro experimented on Sasuke's body during the timeskip and made him faster. Sasuke has actually received more powerups from a variety of sources than Naruto has. Naruto gets alot of powerups too, but he usually works to get them and they are pretty much the same thing, just more chakra from the tailed beasts. Sasuke only works after he receives his powerup in order to master them, but rarely works in order to get them like Naruto does.

Both shinobi work hard and are strong, but Naruto has clearly always been the stronger one of the two. Though Kishi has been trying to hide this fact, it'll just be blatantly obvious in the end once Naruto wins in their final fight, if they have one.

Your first sentence is completely wrong since sasuke beat naruto twice since the zabuza/haku arc. So that defeats you thinking naruto was better since then.


1. You can say that but the truth is at that time naruto didn't have control of his chakra and prior to that he could only summon Bunta randomly when in dire trouble. Also naruto obtained that ability from training with one of the most powerful shinobi alive which was Jiraya, and at the time sasuke had Kakashi as a trainer and well at that time Jiraya >>>> Kakashi yet naruto still won so if this world was full of " ifs " we would all have everything we wanted ever in life.



2. Nope, Orochimaru toyed with naruto, the only actual time he felt threatened by 4 tails kyuubi naruto is when naruto used tbb and oro used triple rashomon to block it, other than that one occasion in that fight oro was playing around and he was extremely handicapped with having no use of his arms and having no ninjutsu because of this and his body going rejecting him making him go through extreme excruciating pain. By you saying he got slapped around like a rag doll is just you denying what actually happened and the facts that occurred in the fight.


3. Nope, that's not what he said. He clearly said he needed kurama's power, you are just denying the truth, and I understand you might like naruto over sasuke or just don't like sasuke because of all the **** riders he promotes I don't know but I do know is what was wriiten in the manga and it said naruto needs the kyuubi's power in order to beat sasuke.



Wrong sasuke never said naruto was stronger, he admitted naruto's steady progress whille he was basically standing still which again goes back to who was training them and naruto had the better master to learn from. Zetsu and Obito said naruto was slightly stronger but you have to understand that was before sasuke's clash with Killer Bee when sasuke had just gotten ms. Later when ms sasuke fought the Raikage he was clearly better than naruto. Their power ups were sm for naruto and ms for sasuke, naruto mastered sm before clashing with the 6 paths, sasuke didn't master ms before clashing with Killer Bee.



96times more chakra is damn near infinite in a battle between shinobi, fighting 1 individual naruto would never tire, he only got exhausted during the war for fighting multiple people and giving chakra away.


No itachi's eyes didn't do any of that. It seemed that way only because ms sasuke didn't spam techs why? because his he was going blind and everytime he used the ms techs every cell in his body would hurt as he stated during the clash with Mei. Itachi's eyes stopped the blindness and stopped the pain which allowed sasuke to be able to use the ms tech more often. Also sasuke had already great manipulation with his ms tech such as amatersu, he gave it shape controlled, when he clashed with the Raikage. In his fight with Kakashi he for a split instance achieve his final susano but due to exhaustion and blindness and pain he couldn't sustain it, this all happened prior to itachi's eyes so itachi's eyes didn't make any jutsu better.



Sasuke was blessed with a clan that damn near automatically excel in what ever they do and get techs seemingly automatic from their clans dojutsu, naruto and lee had no talent so they both had to work hard to get where they are but that in no way means sasuke didn't work hard, I admit his eyes made things easier for him but he still did things naruto wouldnt have been able to do. Like defeat oro's immortal transformation( Great White Serpent) and then defeat it in oro's on dimension and absorb oro, if naruot was in that situation he would have been taken over by oro.


The facts are sasuke 2-0 vs naruto. Another fact is sasuke was greater than naruto clear cut until naruto gaining bm and now its up for debate.