Chakra question.....

[Xee Etbrkz]

Ollo

The big question is if Total Chakra is constant and how is it passed?.

Spoiler

1) So once upon a time there was a Shinju tree. Shinju was formed from the 'bloody Earth'. Shinju tree bore the chakra fruit which Kaguya and thus she came to have chakra. Chakra was then passed to Hamura and Hagomoro. And Kaguya then merged with Shinju to become Jubbi. Jubbi was sealed by brothers. Chakra was subsequently passed on to the next generations.

Let us define Total Chakra first. Before the boys were born, Total Chakra was Shinju + Chara Fruit/Kaguya's chakra

So, Chakra is passed genetically. Hence, Hamura and Hagomoro were able to get chakra.

The question that is raised here is that was Kaguya weaker after her sons were born? Did she 'lose' her chakra to them?

Spoiler

2) Can chakra be destroyed? Where does it go after it leaves the body?

Consider a case when a Shinobi dies. Does their chakra vanish or dissipate? Nobody else receives their chakra as nobody gets a power boost from someone dying (put aside the Indra/Ashura transmigration case as that is not the general case). Chakra is also lost after every attack, where does this chakra go?

If we consider it just vanishes, then how do Shinobi when resurrected via Edo Tensei get their chakra back instantaneously? The destruction theory also seems inconsistent when we look at Tailed Beasts and maximum number of attacks by a person per day. When Tailed Beasts are supposedly killed, their chakra appears at some place else, not destroyed. Also a person who has lost chakra due to attacks, can take rest and replenish his chakra.

So this brings us to a possibility that either new chakra keeps on forming, which means Total Chakra is not constant, or that the chakra somehow dissipates and returns to its original user (don't know how this mechanism works if latter is the case)

Spoiler

3) The case of Senjutsu chakra

A user absorbs Natural Energy, which I suppose is not linked to Kaguya's chakra and uses Senjutsu chakra.

If memory serves I am yet to encounter a case where this type of chakra is transmitted genetically.

The question here is that is this chakra added to the chakra pool of the user and where does it go when the user is not in the sage mode?

Suppose a user goes Sage Mode, means he obviously has absorbed some Natural Energy/Chakra. Now instead of using this chakra up, he powers down, does nothing. In case of normal chakra, if you are not using it, it is still in your chakra pool. However, this should not be the case with this Natural Energy as then it would mean by not staying in Sage Mode, the user can still use just as powerful attacks. So where does this excess chakra go?

Again it can be the case that it quite inexplicably vanishes/gets destroyed. That would mean the Total Natural Energy is decreasing. Or it could be possible that the chakra simply leaves the body of the user and returns to nature.

But what happens to the Natural Energy Chakra which is 'used' up while attacking? What does 'using' up mean in terms of Chakra, e.g. Naruto's and Sasuke's attacks collide, the attacks are made up of chakra, what happens to this chakra? Consider one attack has Senjutsu chakra and other doesnt.

Spoiler

So if we consider :-

1)Total Chakra to be constant, then:-
Parent should become weaker with each new child (literally every time a man jerks off even), chakra somehow returning to the user after being used, also the user has 'used' chakra to do some physical activity (like walk on water or on trees or damage something) but essentially since the chakra returns to him/her, they did it at the expense of no chakra (**** energy crisis and all the other stuff, just gain chakra and run machines perpetually at the cost of no energy)

2) If the Total Chakra is not constant and can be increased then:-
Why the **** was Kaguya hungry for Chakra? Why did Momoshiki wanted to steal chakra? Even if their chakra was taken away, they could simply replenish it or make more chakra if this was the case. Why would they care?

What does even using up chakra means?

 

[Mad Titan Thanos]

its manga not real world that follows strict laws of physics.

 

[Joon]

Don't try to look too much into it.

1.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

2. In a nutshell, Chakra was spread by the Six Path of Sage to connect Spiritual Energy - meant for people to understand one another without talking. This was called Ninshu. However, people connected their Spiritual and Physical Energy weaponizing it, using it to create Ninjutsu (you must bring out and release this Chakra by mixing your Spiritual and Physical Energy through the process of hand seals).

It is unknown, but I assume chakra does not vanish. When chakra is utilized to perform Ninjutsu, this scan should help:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Edo Tensei uses a human sacrifice as a meduim to revive the dead soul. I assume they are using the chakra pool of the human sacrifice while mixing with the revive DNA to gain some their original power.

Tailed Beast (Bijuu) are Chakra Monsters. Being split from the Juubi, it makes sense to say they cannot die.

3. This is just common sense. Nature energy is simply the Planet energy circulating through the air. That energy is absorbed and mix it their chakra creating Senjutsu.

If you wanna know how nature energy works, here is a scan:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

 

[KCMNaruto]

its manga not real world that follows strict laws of physics.

^^ First Welcome to Naruto base and Also what the guy above me wrote.

I mean I doubt Kishi would even bother himself with thinking so deep into, however I admit that with estabilished rules in his verse it may be possible to explain and I will try to prove it.

Ollo

The big question is if Total Chakra is constant and how is it passed?.

According to manga and Databook IV. Yes it is:

"The birth of Hagoromo and Hamura. Kaguya's chakra had become dispersed.", "Ninshu, the power that linked individuals, became obsolete. Mankind, endowed with Kaguya's dispersed chakra, brought back the turbulent times and wielded ninjutsu as a weapon..."

source:

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From what I have seen/read it goes like that:

Forbidden fruit = all chakra in the world(Rikudou chakra = ultimate chakra with max potency in huge amount)
Forbidden fruit = Prime Kaguya
Forbidden fruit = Kaguya + her sons
Forbidden fruit = JJ Hagoromo + dispersed chakra in using ninshu + nature energy(converted chakra amount which mankind as all couldn't handle)
Forbidden fruit = Ashura + Indra + All nine tailed beasts + nature energy + Mankind's chakra

Spoiler

1) So once upon a time there was a Shinju tree. Shinju was formed from the 'bloody Earth'. Shinju tree bore the chakra fruit which Kaguya and thus she came to have chakra. Chakra was then passed to Hamura and Hagomoro. And Kaguya then merged with Shinju to become Jubbi. Jubbi was sealed by brothers. Chakra was subsequently passed on to the next generations.

Let us define Total Chakra first. Before the boys were born, Total Chakra was Shinju + Chara Fruit/Kaguya's chakra

So, Chakra is passed genetically. Hence, Hamura and Hagomoro were able to get chakra.

The question that is raised here is that was Kaguya weaker after her sons were born? Did she 'lose' her chakra to them?

It seems at first yes, kaguya passed chakra genetically to her sons, however later on Hagoromo need to disperse her chakra and teach people to use it. Now I am not sure if dispersed chakra meant hagoromo literally giving them chakra or rather expeling hit outside so it converts in nature energy and mankind slowly get accustomed to use it so they absorb a bit of it(how much they could handle) so it may just come through evolution but amount of chakra always stayed the same in the world.

To answer your question: Yes, she did.

Spoiler

2) Can chakra be destroyed? Where does it go after it leaves the body?

Consider a case when a Shinobi dies. Does their chakra vanish or dissipate? Nobody else receives their chakra as nobody gets a power boost from someone dying (put aside the Indra/Ashura transmigration case as that is not the general case). Chakra is also lost after every attack, where does this chakra go?

If we consider it just vanishes, then how do Shinobi when resurrected via Edo Tensei get their chakra back instantaneously? The destruction theory also seems inconsistent when we look at Tailed Beasts and maximum number of attacks by a person per day. When Tailed Beasts are supposedly killed, their chakra appears at some place else, not destroyed. Also a person who has lost chakra due to attacks, can take rest and replenish his chakra.

So this brings us to a possibility that either new chakra keeps on forming, which means Total Chakra is not constant, or that the chakra somehow dissipates and returns to its original user (don't know how this mechanism works if latter is the case)

Most likely it cycle of chakra is like after death of shinobi chakra got free and adds to nature energy in the world. I mean most likely after death you are no longer owner of your chakra. Of course if you get summoned by Edo Tensei or revived then the same amount of chakra can be forcefully taken by you from nature energy converting it to your chakra.

Now, you may ask but how it is possible for nature to never exceed it's limits, right ?. The answer is birth and death cycle, notice how always some people die for other to be born. Just take example of our world and see that there would be never more people then the world can contain(the maximum amount), nature mother just adjust it using birth and death cycle.

In short chakra never belong to you, it is just borrowed by you at the moment of your life and the amount of it you can handle is marked from your birth. However your body need to be grown up to reach max potential but you may die before doing it. However you can not surprass it. Every chakra being dispersed/expelled just add to full amount of nature energy and comes back to you when you replenish your reserves. Of course it may be not the same chakra which left you, but the amount and potency stays the same.

Edo Tensei example, They just absorb nature energy and their body converts it's to chakra so they can get same amount as when they were alive. Their recovery's rate is deepend how much nature energy is free in reserve to be used.

Spoiler

3) The case of Senjutsu chakra

A user absorbs Natural Energy, which I suppose is not linked to Kaguya's chakra and uses Senjutsu chakra.

If memory serves I am yet to encounter a case where this type of chakra is transmitted genetically.

The question here is that is this chakra added to the chakra pool of the user and where does it go when the user is not in the sage mode?

Suppose a user goes Sage Mode, means he obviously has absorbed some Natural Energy/Chakra. Now instead of using this chakra up, he powers down, does nothing. In case of normal chakra, if you are not using it, it is still in your chakra pool. However, this should not be the case with this Natural Energy as then it would mean by not staying in Sage Mode, the user can still use just as powerful attacks. So where does this excess chakra go?

Again it can be the case that it quite inexplicably vanishes/gets destroyed. That would mean the Total Natural Energy is decreasing. Or it could be possible that the chakra simply leaves the body of the user and returns to nature.

But what happens to the Natural Energy Chakra which is 'used' up while attacking? What does 'using' up mean in terms of Chakra, e.g. Naruto's and Sasuke's attacks collide, the attacks are made up of chakra, what happens to this chakra? Consider one attack has Senjutsu chakra and other doesnt.

The Senjutsu is just special case. I mean basically it just increase potency of your chakra and it seems some different potency of chakra has special properties to it, just like senjutsu chakra, same with Rikudou chakra etc.

When that chakra is expelled it is simply converted back to nature energy which is passing around the world.

The chakra which is used up in the attack stop existing and then nature just replenish this amount of chakra needed to keep maximum amount constant.

Spoiler

So if we consider :-

1)Total Chakra to be constant, then:-
Parent should become weaker with each new child (literally every time a man jerks off even), chakra somehow returning to the user after being used, also the user has 'used' chakra to do some physical activity (like walk on water or on trees or damage something) but essentially since the chakra returns to him/her, they did it at the expense of no chakra (**** energy crisis and all the other stuff, just gain chakra and run machines perpetually at the cost of no energy)

Spoiler

No, you don't get it here. The parent is not getting weaker because his body just replenish this lost amount of chakra if is any nature energy free to convert into chakra. Of course the maximum amount of chakra body can take at current state doesn't change. However it changes depending on your body's condition.

The excersises and training are just means to make your body able to handle more and more chakra eventually reaching the maximum amount of chakra your body could take at your peak. However you may get ill and die or just die for some reason(be killed) so you may never reach your maximum potential.

2) If the Total Chakra is not constant and can be increased then:-
Why the **** was Kaguya hungry for Chakra? Why did Momoshiki wanted to steal chakra? Even if their chakra was taken away, they could simply replenish it or make more chakra if this was the case. Why would they care?

What does even using up chakra means?

It is just constant but amount of ingredients and quality along with quanity each of them change adjusted by nature. However their all combined amount and potency stays always the same.

I hope I cleared it a bit, or at least I didn't make it more complicated.

 

[Xee Etbrkz]

Thank you for your elaborate reply. Made me realise that I should have worded my question better.

Now consider the term 'chakra' in my question as 'spiritual energy' part of chakra. In the light of this, let's review.

Don't try to look too much into it.

1.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

2. In a nutshell, Chakra was spread by the Six Path of Sage to connect Spiritual Energy - meant for people to understand one another without talking. This was called Ninshu. However, people connected their Spiritual and Physical Energy weaponizing it, using it to create Ninjutsu (you must bring out and release this Chakra by mixing your Spiritual and Physical Energy through the process of hand seals).

It is unknown, but I assume chakra does not vanish. When chakra is utilized to perform Ninjutsu, this scan should help:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

It was quite clear to me that stamina is used up in using chakra. However, there is also a mix of spiritual energy required for a technique and chakra. If only stamina was required to be converted into chakra, people would have performed ninjutsu long before Sage or Kaguya. So considering they do use this spiritual energy each time they use chakra:-

1) Does this energy decrease with each child you have? Child also has spiritual energy and it is quite clear that spiritual energy is genetically transmitted. So if parent does not get weaker then more spiritual energy (appropriately new spiritual energy) can be generated and if that is so what was the fuss all about? (Kaguya/Momoshiki)

2) What happens to the chakra after use? It is gone for good like fuel or it circles back to the initial user? If it is gone for good, then a user's spiritual energy should be perpetually decreasing. But we know this is not the case as a user after rests can perform the techniques again, even better. So this means that the spiritual energy must recycle back to the user (leading to a case where Total chakra is constant and also leaving the question about how this spiritual energy comes back) or new spiritual energy is generated (leading to same doubt as in point no 1)

Edo Tensei uses a human sacrifice as a meduim to revive the dead soul. I assume they are using the chakra pool of the human sacrifice while mixing with the revive DNA to gain some their original power.

Tailed Beast (Bijuu) are Chakra Monsters. Being split from the Juubi, it makes sense to say they cannot die.

Edo-Tensei made sense when the power of the resurrected user was nowhere as powerful as he was originally, which meant that somehow he is using chakra of the sacrificed person.

However, after the 'improvements' it became ridiculous. Can you imagine how White Zetsu's chakra reserves being on par with reincarnated Hashirama's? Yet manga says so. Also a living person's chakra runs out while Edo Tensei's doesn't. Where is this excess of spiritual energy coming from?

3. This is just common sense. Nature energy is simply the Planet energy circulating through the air. That energy is absorbed and mix it their chakra creating Senjutsu.

If you wanna know how nature energy works, here is a scan:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

I knew about Senjutsu. But in regards to senjutsu I have more or less the same doubts that I have about normal spiritual energy.

 

[Honord Sage]

Chakra is Energy and Einstein said Energy can never be destroyed, The Tailed Beast are Energy and that gives them their immortality.

 

[Xee Etbrkz]

Spoiler

^^ First Welcome to Naruto base and Also what the guy above me wrote.

I mean I doubt Kishi would even bother himself with thinking so deep into, however I admit that with estabilished rules in his verse it may be possible to explain and I will try to prove it.



According to manga and Databook IV. Yes it is:

"The birth of Hagoromo and Hamura. Kaguya's chakra had become dispersed.", "Ninshu, the power that linked individuals, became obsolete. Mankind, endowed with Kaguya's dispersed chakra, brought back the turbulent times and wielded ninjutsu as a weapon..."

source:

You must be registered for see links

From what I have seen/read it goes like that:

Forbidden fruit = all chakra in the world(Rikudou chakra = ultimate chakra with max potency in huge amount)
Forbidden fruit = Prime Kaguya
Forbidden fruit = Kaguya + her sons
Forbidden fruit = JJ Hagoromo + dispersed chakra in using ninshu + nature energy(converted chakra amount which mankind as all couldn't handle)
Forbidden fruit = Ashura + Indra + All nine tailed beasts + nature energy + Mankind's chakra



It seems at first yes, kaguya passed chakra genetically to her sons, however later on Hagoromo need to disperse her chakra and teach people to use it. Now I am not sure if dispersed chakra meant hagoromo literally giving them chakra or rather expeling hit outside so it converts in nature energy and mankind slowly get accustomed to use it so they absorb a bit of it(how much they could handle) so it may just come through evolution but amount of chakra always stayed the same in the world.

To answer your question: Yes, she did.



Most likely it cycle of chakra is like after death of shinobi chakra got free and adds to nature energy in the world. I mean most likely after death you are no longer owner of your chakra. Of course if you get summoned by Edo Tensei or revived then the same amount of chakra can be forcefully taken by you from nature energy converting it to your chakra.

Now, you may ask but how it is possible for nature to never exceed it's limits, right ?. The answer is birth and death cycle, notice how always some people die for other to be born. Just take example of our world and see that there would be never more people then the world can contain(the maximum amount), nature mother just adjust it using birth and death cycle.

In short chakra never belong to you, it is just borrowed by you at the moment of your life and the amount of it you can handle is marked from your birth. However your body need to be grown up to reach max potential but you may die before doing it. However you can not surprass it. Every chakra being dispersed/expelled just add to full amount of nature energy and comes back to you when you replenish your reserves. Of course it may be not the same chakra which left you, but the amount and potency stays the same.

Edo Tensei example, They just absorb nature energy and their body converts it's to chakra so they can get same amount as when they were alive. Their recovery's rate is deepend how much nature energy is free in reserve to be used.



The Senjutsu is just special case. I mean basically it just increase potency of your chakra and it seems some different potency of chakra has special properties to it, just like senjutsu chakra, same with Rikudou chakra etc.

When that chakra is expelled it is simply converted back to nature energy which is passing around the world.

The chakra which is used up in the attack stop existing and then nature just replenish this amount of chakra needed to keep maximum amount constant.



No, you don't get it here. The parent is not getting weaker because his body just replenish this lost amount of chakra if is any nature energy free to convert into chakra. Of course the maximum amount of chakra body can take at current state doesn't change. However it changes depending on your body's condition.

The excersises and training are just means to make your body able to handle more and more chakra eventually reaching the maximum amount of chakra your body could take at your peak. However you may get ill and die or just die for some reason(be killed) so you may never reach your maximum potential.



It is just constant but amount of ingredients and quality along with quanity each of them change adjusted by nature. However their all combined amount and potency stays always the same.

I hope I cleared it a bit, or at least I didn't make it more complicated.

You realise you are saying that Spiritual Energy and Natural Energy are one and the same thing and are interchangeable like mass and energy. Because that is the backbone of this theory, Nature Energy being converted into Spiritual Energy in parent or Edo Tensei bodies or in the user after use of chakra. I have to admit, I never heard of this and must admit I can't remember this is manga.

 

[KCMNaruto]

[/SPOILER]

You realise you are saying that Spiritual Energy and Natural Energy are one and the same thing and are interchangeable like mass and energy. Because that is the backbone of this theory, Nature Energy being converted into Spiritual Energy in parent or Edo Tensei bodies or in the user after use of chakra. I have to admit, I never heard of this and must admit I can't remember this is manga.

Either that or you may just replace this natural energy converting to chakra by just chakra of dead one being freed and going into some store of chakra in pure world to come back when called by souls/body of shinobi

 

[Xee Etbrkz]

Either that or you may just replace this natural energy converting to chakra by just chakra of dead one being freed and going into some store of chakra in pure world to come back when called by souls/body of shinobi

Neither of these concepts were discussed in the manga, so don't know what to pick

 

[Pukkake Pokayo]

The jews did it.

 

[KCMNaruto]

Neither of these concepts were discussed in the manga, so don't know what to pick

True, but it was mentioned chakra can go to pure world and even connect both impre and pure world as proven by Obito and Hagoromo. Also Tailed beasts once killed can easily come back after some time due to chakra manifesting and comming back from pure world.