[Discussion] Ch 51 Plotholes

wanderingcactus

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So it has been revealed what makes the God Tree. It is a chakra fruit that is derived from an Otsutsuki (no brainer there since we saw Kinshiki transform into one while the Tailed Beasts end up being red pills).

The plothole remains as to how they managed to plant the God Tree on Earth. Amado's theory is that Kaguya was meant to be the fruit that would bear the God Tree until she betrayed Isshiki and he ended up being the God Tree. However, we know that that cannot happen since Isshiki fled and burrowed inside of Jigen.
So where did she get another Otsutsuki to sacrifice for the GT?

Another is Isshiki managing to flee from Kaguya's eyes. She knows that Isshiki cannot be dead as she needs him alive to turn him into a chakra fruit. Another reason is Kaguya needs to search for him and any possible Karma recipient so that she can be sure that he cannot take his revenge on her.


Now I wish to discuss Naruto's final form: Kurama form. I believe that Kurama and Naruto have fused together instead of being completely separate beings. Since Kurama said that he will die in the process: either he meant that there will be no Naruto self or that Naruto will die. This makes me think that he and Kurama's life force are being used in order to use the final mode similar to the 8Gates mode.

Although, I believe that it is more the former than the latter since the design really looks like Naruto and Kurama becoming as one.

Whichever one is which, we will see Naruto die in the next few chapters and become more useless. Which is a good thing since they would not be able to ruin his character even more. Now we just wait for Sasuke to do the same so I can finally drop the series. I do not want to see them get more ruined just to set Boruto up for the spotlight.
 
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Yahcob13

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I like the artwork on Naruto's new form. I don't think he's gonna die but I do agree with it being an eight gates type ability that allows Kurama to be in control of his body. I guess to physically become the chakra beast requires the jinchuriki to sacrifice his body.
 

wanderingcactus

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I like the artwork on Naruto's new form. I don't think he's gonna die but I do agree with it being an eight gates type ability that allows Kurama to be in control of his body. I guess to physically become the chakra beast requires the jinchuriki to sacrifice his body.
Naruto Tailed Beast form. That's sick. Imagine being a chakra beast but as a human. I suppose Hamura and Hagoromo have done that but they were more like spirits than a chakra beast.
 

wanderingcactus

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Im not sure what you mean by they were more like spirits than chakra beasts. Sounds overpowered.
As in they were more just plot device than actual characters. They just floated and gave info rather than an interactive force that has some power to change the world or the world impacting them.

So Hagoromo and Hamura were there to move plot rather than reacting to the world and changing behaviour based on what the world is doing.
The same reason why Sasuke and Naruto were dissatisfying since they are becoming plot devices as well. Their nerfs were unexplained and the sole logical reasoning as to why they happened is because they start encompassing Boruto and would take away the spotlight from him.

In terms of lore, Hagoromo and Hamura existed in spirit form but had some ability to interact with the world. Momoshiki, Kaguya, and Isshiki were a step above that since they can come back as characters by resurrecting. Indra and Asura were less than spirits since they do not even have any thoughts and actions of their own. They simply exist as tropes.

The only true spirit that I recognize is the Dead Demon Seal and the King of Hell.
 
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Ansatsuken

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You only touched the sacrifice thing but why you didn't question what Amado said about Juubi? Amado's statements suggested that Juubi came first and not Shinju. So in the original story Juubi came into existence was after Kaguya merged with Shinju(BZ confirmed it). But in Boruto for Shinju to grow an Otsutsuki need to be feed to Juubi.

This one is the biggest plot hole created by Boruto story.
 
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Like Naruto

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So it has been revealed what makes the God Tree. It is a chakra fruit that is derived from an Otsutsuki (no brainer there since we saw Kinshiki transform into one while the Tailed Beasts end up being red pills).

The plothole remains as to how they managed to plant the God Tree on Earth. Amado's theory is that Kaguya was meant to be the fruit that would bear the God Tree until she betrayed Isshiki and he ended up being the God Tree. However, we know that that cannot happen since Isshiki fled and burrowed inside of Jigen.
So where did she get another Otsutsuki to sacrifice for the GT?

Another is Isshiki managing to flee from Kaguya's eyes. She knows that Isshiki cannot be dead as she needs him alive to turn him into a chakra fruit. Another reason is Kaguya needs to search for him and any possible Karma recipient so that she can be sure that he cannot take his revenge on her.


Now I wish to discuss Naruto's final form: Kurama form. I believe that Kurama and Naruto have fused together instead of being completely separate beings. Since Kurama said that he will die in the process: either he meant that there will be no Naruto self or that Naruto will die. This makes me think that he and Kurama's life force are being used in order to use the final mode similar to the 8Gates mode.

Although, I believe that it is more the former than the latter since the design really looks like Naruto and Kurama becoming as one.

Whichever one is which, we will see Naruto die in the next few chapters and become more useless. Which is a good thing since they would not be able to ruin his character even more. Now we just wait for Sasuke to do the same so I can finally drop the series. I do not want to see them get more ruined just to set Boruto up for the spotlight.
arent momoshiki went with 3 otsutsiki? And preety much this otsutsuki are loyal to their leaders and even ready to die for them and be eaten as a chakra fruit
 

wanderingcactus

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You only touched the sacrifice thing but why you didn't question what Amado said about Juubi? Amado's statements suggested that Juubi came first and not Shinju.
Pretty sure I addressed that in my 2nd paragraph, which was the whole point of being the plot hole. Where did they get the GT when it needed a sacrifice?
As for the Juubi, we know that it is the chakra of the GT when it has been split into 2 parts: chakra and vessel.
So you need to deal with the GT first before the Juubi.

This was my thought process. I guess that was my fault for assuming that everyone knows this. I mean, everyone should since this had been established when Hagoromo talked about taking down Kaguya and the relation of the Juubi and Gedo Mazou to the God Tree.

So in the original story Juubi came into existence was after Kaguya merged with Shinju(BZ confirmed it).
Yes, this is what I was pointing out. Kaguya absorbed the chakra fruit (probably the GT) and the Juubi came into existence when Hagoromo and Hamura split her into 2 halves: Yin and Yang. Yin being the chakra which became the Juubi and the Yang which is the vessel which became the Gedo Mazou.

This one is the biggest plot hole created by Boruto story.
I do not understand how they overlooked that. Also we still need to know where that Juubi came from. It just does not exist by itself. Which means, it was someone else's chakra.

My hypothesis is that it was Kaguya's/Isshiki's previous GT and they merely resurrected and Earth is one of their many harvest. Basically, this was not the pair's first harvest which gone sideways and Kaguya screwed him over. Maybe the last time it was Kaguya that sacrificed herself and Earth's sacrifice would have been Isshiki but he disagreed and wanted Kaguya to sacrifice herself again, which ended up the reason of her defiance.

I found it: The reason why a Divine Tree was planted on Earth was because Kaguya used Ishiki's lower halve to feed the Juubi, I assume.
Very good find! Totally a throw back to Kaguya's resurrection from Madara's upper half and Madara being revived from his lower half.
Amado never said she was the juubi to plant in the earth just said the seed of the god tree is the juubi
Yeah, well the established fact was that the Juubi is the chakra of the GT and the Gedou Mazou is the vessel of the GT. So where did the Juubi come from to eat an Otsutsuki to plant the GT?

Also, Momoshiki and Kinshiki already performed the chakra fruit transformation. This did not require an Otsutsuki to be devoured by a Juubi. My guess is that Amado was simply guessing. I believe that Isshiki needs to have an Otsutsuki be fed because he is lacking the strength to do the process himself. This is only if my theory is correct that the 6 Otstusuki were not 6 Paths Users but only 1 Path.
Heavenly:
  • Deva = Isshiki
  • Asura = Kaguya
Middle:
  • Human = ???/Urashiki
  • Animal = Urashiki/???
Hellish:
  • Preta = Momoshiki
  • Naraka = Kinshiki
Then having to use a Juubi would make sense this way as they do not have Momoshiki to transform an Otstusuki into a chakra fruit.

arent momoshiki went with 3 otsutsiki? And preety much this otsutsuki are loyal to their leaders and even ready to die for them and be eaten as a chakra fruit
Yes, originally until Urashiki was dropped. I believe that Urashiki was meant to be Kaguya's partner. I am glad that it went the other way: Kishimoto's travel in pairs and Ikemoto's 3 Otsutsuki pairs instead of 2. (happy for the sake of my theory).

The movie hinted us that Otsutsuki have 2 things that they can do: Evolve via chakra fruit and be turned into chakra fruit.
The whole eating whole is really just for the Gedo Mazou to be filled up with chakra and become whole again.

Sacrificing act seem to follow suit with what Amado is saying. They sacrifice their body and resurrect via Karma later on.
(This dampens my theory of degree of resurrection)

3rd eye transcendent: Karma/Black Zetsu/Jigen, can return to interact with the world, full control
Rikudou Sennins/Otsutsuki pairs: Hagoromo's/Hamura's floating spirit, just a conscience
1/4 Otsutsuki/2nd gen: transmigrants, certain events happen again, no real conscience
 
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