Causes of Kaguya's loss, bad writting: Black Zetsu - sleeve advice & chakra obssesion

KCMNaruto

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Causes of Kaguya's loss, bad writting: Black Zetsu - sleeve advice & chakra obssesion

Hello guys, It is been a while since I have posted something in Narutobase which last time was about few days after parts of Naruto Bolt the movie were released so we could see battle of Momoshiki and Kinshiki against Naruto and Sasuke and rest of cast. I wasn't interested in to take part in any kind of discussion until I noticed that recently people began to talk about Kaguya again, which always bring me mixed emotions.
Today I will try to prove what were really causes of Kaguya's downfall and poor performance in eyes of readers.

NOTE : I will skip plot reasons that good guys would always win no matter of cost or ridiculous plot. I will also skip partially lack of depth of Kaguya character and rather try to prove and blame Black Zetsu for that.

Ok, so here we go.

1. Chakra obsession:

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^^ It may be good showcase of Kaguya's power or rather it overpowerness in compare to good guys but still it was a just rushing without of thinking too much but let's say She was just testing them at that time.

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^^ Kaguya could deal with Kakashi, Sakura and Obito before they could save Sasuke ending all hope but arrogance is common downfall of villain in most of the manga.

2. Black Zetsu constantly destroying epic Kaguya's presence:

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^^ return of Black Zetsu... it was nice move from Kishi at that time, however keeping him in Kaguya's sleeve was very stupid move especially while he was talking through it.

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^^ This was the best and last time for Black Zetsu to be talking then make him fade away in kaguya's sleeve.

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^^ Black Zetsu Shitting on Kaguya character prime example !

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^^ Prime example number two

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^^ Again !


JUST THE ONE MOMENT OF KAGUYA's GLORY for her character:

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^^ Was it that Hard Kishimoto to keep always only Kaguya talking when she want to talk !, instead of black shit.


HOW COULD IT BE MADE TO IMPROVE KAGUYA's PERFORMANCE:

1) The moment Black Zetsu appeared he should be merged with Kaguya giving her all knowledge/experience of him and what he recorded just replacing or meriging with her mind

2) Kaguya was shown able to create Black Zetsu or black substance of which bz was made of, so it would be better if all of them would talk and then disappear once kaguya get rid of them or doesn't need them

3) Black Zetsu ordering Kaguya around was completly stupid and although there were times where kaguya argued with him or at leat wanted to do something on her own, it was still bad for her character

4) Kaguya should be a little more talkative and not only talk about chakra. Also She should bring some hints to what her plan is so we could know.

^^ Besides plot and some ass pulls which happened since 688 to the end of 689, that all Kishi would do to make her better.

CONCLUSION:

1) I blame Kishi for bad Kaguya's arc, he was just incapable of writting it better. Time limit was not cause of it or at least would be just small part of it.

2) I am not Madara's biggest fun but I hate Black Zetsu's role SINCE Kaguya appeared. HE WAS NOT NEEDED.
 

Passerby

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Re: Causes of Kaguya's loss, bad writting: Black Zetsu - sleeve advice & chakra obsse

Time to let it go bro
Manga is over
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Rohan

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Re: Causes of Kaguya's loss, bad writting: Black Zetsu - sleeve advice & chakra obsse

So, you are basically complaining about Black Zetsu being in the sleeve ? :lol

The rest, Well, this guy has given a nice explanation on that :-

The base in general has serious issues with Kaguya being the final villain. From what I can gather, the 3 main gripes are as follows:

1. She never talks, BZ does all her talking.
2. She has little to no background, making her a villain with weak intentions and motives.
3. Her fighting has become stale and uneventful.

But the way I see it, Kaguya is a completely unique villain and needs to be treated as such. Kaguya is less like a villain in the Naruto universe, and more like the ultimate evil. By ultimate evil I mean she needs no true intentions, she is simply there to either take everything for herself or destroy all existence. Not unlike an ultimate evil who's only intention is to destroy the world as one knows it. Liken her, if you will, to Zorc of the Yu-Gi-Oh series. Zorc was the source of all evil. He stated that at the depths of every source of light there is darkness. He likened himself to pure evil. Pure evil needs no greater goal or insidious intentions, simply their existence implies destruction and suffering. So don't treat her as a normal villain, treat her as the Naruto universe's most ancient evil.

Moreover, as ancient and evil as she is, what emotions does she need to share with her opponents? Most villians have strong reasons for what they do and have a need to satisfy their enemy's desire to understand them. We often are taken deep into the mind of the villain and are forced to decide whether or not we think their actions are even remotely justified. If you're dealing with a true evil presence, what need is there to have this insight? What need is there for her to require justifying her actions? The truth is that there is no need because you can't rightly require that of her. She has no relation to current cast of characters and has no reason to justify herself. She is simply adhering to her ancient desire to absorb power.

When it comes to how she fights, she was always powerful enough to destroy her enemies very quickly. Surely only her sons could ever stand up to her and they likely ambushed her not allowing her to fight back. What level of technique variety would be required of the almighty power in the universe? Why would she need to know anything beyond the dimension tech to kill any and all opposition?

Cleary I am not even giving her full credit. We have already been given a decent amount of history for her, she actually has a plan in the Zetsu army and she clearly has more techniques than the dimension tech, yet people still dislike her. So please don't judge Kaguya as a mainstream Naruto villain. Please liken her to a greater evil, the ultimate evil of the Naruto universe and then judge her. If you have additional reasons to dislike Kaguya, feel free to post them here.

This along with the fact that Black Zetsu is Kaguya's will. Black Zetsu is nothing but an extension Of Kaguya. So yeah, what Black Zetsu said were the thoughts of Kaguya. Kaguya and Black Zetsu are the same beings. Kishi let Black Zetsu do all the talking to enhance the demon effect that Kaguya gave.
 

Ansatsuken

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Re: Causes of Kaguya's loss, bad writting: Black Zetsu - sleeve advice & chakra obsse

Kishi thought BZ was Kaguya's Will and from that he/she/it(I will use 'it') was part of Kaguya. Maybe Kishi want BZ to be inner Kaguya like inner Sakura(inner Sakura was Sakura's Will) and not a different person to actual person. BZ was essentially Kaguya herself. Not her son.

Edit: Why my post at no.3 when I post first:sweat:
 

Your Creepy Stalker

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Re: Causes of Kaguya's loss, bad writting: Black Zetsu - sleeve advice & chakra obsse

basic reason - she is a mindless idiot who wants all the chakra. had she been smarter, she would have dumped them all in separate dimensions and taken them out one by one. or left them in separate dimensions and waited for them to starve. or just ash boned sasuke when she grabbed him instead of throwing him into the desert. or using infinite tsukuyomi on everyone else when sasuke was in the desert. or...


kaguyas loss was due to having precisely 2 previous fights worth of experience. one where she was infinitely more powerful than everyone, and one where she lost. frankly, its amazing she lasted as long as she did.


i have said it before. Kaguya was not the villain, she was the muscle. Black zetsu was the villain.
 

Bolt Rules

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Re: Causes of Kaguya's loss, bad writting: Black Zetsu - sleeve advice & chakra obsse

Itachi soloes Kaguya and Hagoromo.
 

Wparker6804

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Re: Causes of Kaguya's loss, bad writting: Black Zetsu - sleeve advice & chakra obsse

Time to let it go bro
Manga is over
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And just like elsa's ponytail passing through her arm via CG intangibility, it made no sense
 

Liquid Snake

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Re: Causes of Kaguya's loss, bad writting: Black Zetsu - sleeve advice & chakra obsse

Why does kaguya need to talk to ppl she don't know besides it kept her from being tnj but I do agree on the fact she was poor at fighting and she should have had more techs than she showed
 

KCMNaruto

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Re: Causes of Kaguya's loss, bad writting: Black Zetsu - sleeve advice & chakra obsse

Time to let it go bro
Manga is over
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Of course I know ;), However if base decided to bring this topic back to life, then I don't hold back myself from expressing opinion, take it easy.

So, you are basically complaining about Black Zetsu being in the sleeve ? :lol

The rest, Well, this guy has given a nice explanation on that :-

This along with the fact that Black Zetsu is Kaguya's will. Black Zetsu is nothing but an extension Of Kaguya. So yeah, what Black Zetsu said were the thoughts of Kaguya. Kaguya and Black Zetsu are the same beings. Kishi let Black Zetsu do all the talking to enhance the demon effect that Kaguya gave.

Yes, I just hate black Zetsu since Kaguya was brought back to life...
Before I only predicted his role as Kaguya's mind who would replace or complete her ressurected self's mind.
He/It was supposed to make Kaguya's more smart but increasing her knowledge and strategies.

The only argument I can buy is BZ's increasing meaning of Demon talking to Kaguya or controlling her, but this could be easily replaced by Kaguya having inner bold voice which would talk by telepathy and it would be demon talking to her.

Kishi thought BZ was Kaguya's Will and from that he/she/it(I will use 'it') was part of Kaguya. Maybe Kishi want BZ to be inner Kaguya like inner Sakura(inner Sakura was Sakura's Will) and not a different person to actual person. BZ was essentially Kaguya herself. Not her son.

Edit: Why my post at no.3 when I post first:sweat:

That why he made idiot of himself by such cheap and foolish move. Also if Kishi tried same motive with Sakura and her inner self(will) then damn it just repeat same motive, and not make it separate part of her too. It would work much better.

basic reason - she is a mindless idiot who wants all the chakra. had she been smarter, she would have dumped them all in separate dimensions and taken them out one by one. or left them in separate dimensions and waited for them to starve. or just ash boned sasuke when she grabbed him instead of throwing him into the desert. or using infinite tsukuyomi on everyone else when sasuke was in the desert. or...

kaguyas loss was due to having precisely 2 previous fights worth of experience. one where she was infinitely more powerful than everyone, and one where she lost. frankly, its amazing she lasted as long as she did.

i have said it before. Kaguya was not the villain, she was the muscle. Black zetsu was the villain.

There are good points, which generally proves Black Zetsu existence outside of Kaguya's body was generally what screwered Kishimoto and Naruto's ending at least for me.

Why does kaguya need to talk to ppl she don't know besides it kept her from being tnj but I do agree on the fact she was poor at fighting and she should have had more techs than she showed

because She was supposed to react and express emotions when something happens unless she is robot...
She wasn't that poor at fighting, it was more like she was held back by author and at the same time she didn't have enough time to reveal more of her abilities.

Just look at the one pointed by me argument with Kaguya's glory moment, yes that is what I am talking about and this moment alone was awesome ;)
 

Seventh Sama

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Re: Causes of Kaguya's loss, bad writting: Black Zetsu - sleeve advice & chakra obsse

I blame the manga's deadline. Seemed like kishi tried but gave up on kaguya.
 

Naruto X Hunter

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Re: Causes of Kaguya's loss, bad writting: Black Zetsu - sleeve advice & chakra obsse

Which one do you guys like the most?

1)
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2)
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3)
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4)
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5)
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Itachi Edo

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Re: Causes of Kaguya's loss, bad writting: Black Zetsu - sleeve advice & chakra obsse

No more. We're all trying to forget Kaguya existed.
 

SatanicGod

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Re: Causes of Kaguya's loss, bad writting: Black Zetsu - sleeve advice & chakra obsse

basic reason - she is a mindless idiot who wants all the chakra. had she been smarter, she would have dumped them all in separate dimensions and taken them out one by one. or left them in separate dimensions and waited for them to starve. or just ash boned sasuke when she grabbed him instead of throwing him into the desert. or using infinite tsukuyomi on everyone else when sasuke was in the desert. or...


kaguyas loss was due to having precisely 2 previous fights worth of experience. one where she was infinitely more powerful than everyone, and one where she lost. frankly, its amazing she lasted as long as she did.


i have said it before. Kaguya was not the villain, she was the muscle. Black zetsu was the villain.

When she did that to Sasuke, she wasn't aiming to kill, she was aiming to absorb their chakra.
 

Natsu Shazneel

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Re: Causes of Kaguya's loss, bad writting: Black Zetsu - sleeve advice & chakra obsse

Kaguya was a great queen with loads of potiential.
 

ninjarasengan

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Re: Causes of Kaguya's loss, bad writting: Black Zetsu - sleeve advice & chakra obsse

basic reason - she is a mindless idiot who wants all the chakra. had she been smarter, she would have dumped them all in separate dimensions and taken them out one by one. or left them in separate dimensions and waited for them to starve. or just ash boned sasuke when she grabbed him instead of throwing him into the desert. or using infinite tsukuyomi on everyone else when sasuke was in the desert. or...


kaguyas loss was due to having precisely 2 previous fights worth of experience. one where she was infinitely more powerful than everyone, and one where she lost. frankly, its amazing she lasted as long as she did.


i have said it before. Kaguya was not the villain, she was the muscle. Black zetsu was the villain.

1-only ones she found relevant were Sasuke and Naruto...she threw Sasuke into another dimension.

2-Using ash bone (Killing them in general) at that point would have been against her goal at that time.

3-It's unknown if Naruto would've even been affected by infinite tsukuyomi (apparently Hamura avoided it somehow)

Side-note--things people refer to as smart/great strategy in Naruto are usually straightforward common sense type anyway-non of it takes a 'genius'...Naruto's target audience is children after-all. She definitely used those kinds of strategies
 
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