[Debate] Can war be ever justified?

[ROSH2]

depend on the situation

 

[Mkgheith]

I don't know if it is the best solution to solve conflicts. Some say it is right, others disagree.

nvm deleted don't feel like debating have a nice day

 

[KillerbYo]

The problem for me is that "official" wars are one thing, but how often does "normal" people get involved in what "countries" are up too? I mean what about the random conflicts about civilians, what about small crime that leads to murder?

 

[KillerbYo]

Honestly Im not an idiot. If there would be a "war" involving me, I wouldnt fight unless i wanted to.

 

[Hunty]

I don't know if it is the best solution to solve conflicts. Some say it is right, others disagree.

Imagine this; a buddy of yours calls you and asks if you can come over to help him install a new window he just recently purchased. You accidentally drop this window and brake it, he flips out, pulls out a gun and shoots you.

Do you think that was justified? I do not believe that was justified, I believe they could of went to the store and bought a new window on the friends tab. Maybe even a sincere apology. This is the same thing as war, there's really no such thing as 'justice' it's all in the person(s) moral system.

 

[Jin Hayami]

War is just natural selection played out on a grand scale. Its justified because without conflict their is no adaptation. The weak continue to take up valuable resources and the strong do not instigate change. A world without war is a world that cannot evolve.
Get rid of the wolves and the deer will eat themselves out of house and home. Then when they are weak and starving the lower predators will eat them all.
Its a scary world we live in but the only one that can survive. That applies to every facet of civilization.

 

[King Envy G]

War is always justified, Because every country except the USA are a bunch of barbarian idiots. We promote freedom. If no one wants that, then they can get bombed. 'Merica

 

[shelke]

Patriotism promotes the concept of necessary evils, which includes subjugation, pillaging, and oppression of the other races on grounds of self-superiority. All these factor prompt nations and goad them into action. It's this simple, yet so-called noble sentiment that becomes the basis of war. Eliminate this and war would become a thing of the past.

 

[Zexion~]

imo,

The only way we will ever accomplish any form of peace, is with war

 

[Aim64C]

I don't know if it is the best solution to solve conflicts. Some say it is right, others disagree.

War is always justified.

If I decide to kill you - then I, obviously, have justified the action.

If you decide to kill me to save yourself - you are, obviously, justified in doing so.

We do not decide whether or not war is/was justified. We merely decide who was justified based upon the outcome.

 

[Aim64C]

Patriotism promotes the concept of necessary evils, which includes subjugation, pillaging, and oppression of the other races on grounds of self-superiority. All these factor prompt nations and goad them into action. It's this simple, yet so-called noble sentiment that becomes the basis of war. Eliminate this and war would become a thing of the past.

How arrogant.

I simply want to be able to have a business where I take various construction components and build unique cars, planes - even space craft out of them. I'd like to have several kids and to teach them what I and others have learned about how the universe works and how to interact with others. I'd like to have a decent amount of land for them to be able to wander through and explore (and also because I don't like having my elbows crowded). I'd like to have a farm, wine cellar, an indoor pool with fireplace next to it (with the same red-brick structure as the wine cellar) and a mini-bar.

I don't care if you **** your brother, camel, or life-sized stuffed animals. I don't care if you want to live in a hammock and eat tree bark (hell, I might even pay you to come live on my property for the entertainment value, from my perspective).

I may not think those are good ways to live - but that's not my decision.

However - I do not appreciate people telling me how I have to live because they insist I must be part of their society (collective stupidity, usually) - and must therefor pay for it to exist and for all of the good things it provides.

They believe this quite adamantly, in fact. So much so that they will attempt to take away access to my bank accounts (which they have forcibly taken over from real banking businesses) or even send people to my house armed with lethal weapons to force me into compliance with what others think is the right way to live (despite the fact that I am not causing harm or using force on other people).

What manner of recourse is there? There isn't any. People of my ideology are inherently at a disadvantage in these dealings. It's easy to get people to advocate intervention. All someone has to do is do something culturally objectionable - and you can have laws written to 'stop it from happening' (even though laws cannot stop anything). It's not so easy to advocate non-intervention and insulation of political/social power/influence.

Which is why it will always come down to a host of drones trying to force free people into some form of oppression or another. Which is why people like myself will, eventually, come to a sort of unspoken consensus that the time is right - and we'll cull that population. Brutally.

This is just one of the many inevitable cycles of human social behavior that lead to war.

War is a natural thing. It's neither good nor bad. It is one of the most extreme expressions of conflict we can muster.

 

[Souji]

How arrogant.

I simply want to be able to have a business where I take various construction components and build unique cars, planes - even space craft out of them. I'd like to have several kids and to teach them what I and others have learned about how the universe works and how to interact with others. I'd like to have a decent amount of land for them to be able to wander through and explore (and also because I don't like having my elbows crowded). I'd like to have a farm, wine cellar, an indoor pool with fireplace next to it (with the same red-brick structure as the wine cellar) and a mini-bar.

I don't care if you **** your brother, camel, or life-sized stuffed animals. I don't care if you want to live in a hammock and eat tree bark (hell, I might even pay you to come live on my property for the entertainment value, from my perspective).

I may not think those are good ways to live - but that's not my decision.

However - I do not appreciate people telling me how I have to live because they insist I must be part of their society (collective stupidity, usually) - and must therefor pay for it to exist and for all of the good things it provides.

They believe this quite adamantly, in fact. So much so that they will attempt to take away access to my bank accounts (which they have forcibly taken over from real banking businesses) or even send people to my house armed with lethal weapons to force me into compliance with what others think is the right way to live (despite the fact that I am not causing harm or using force on other people).

What manner of recourse is there? There isn't any. People of my ideology are inherently at a disadvantage in these dealings. It's easy to get people to advocate intervention. All someone has to do is do something culturally objectionable - and you can have laws written to 'stop it from happening' (even though laws cannot stop anything). It's not so easy to advocate non-intervention and insulation of political/social power/influence.

Which is why it will always come down to a host of drones trying to force free people into some form of oppression or another. Which is why people like myself will, eventually, come to a sort of unspoken consensus that the time is right - and we'll cull that population. Brutally.

This is just one of the many inevitable cycles of human social behavior that lead to war.

War is a natural thing. It's neither good nor bad. It is one of the most extreme expressions of conflict we can muster.

You should make your own country, Aim, with Blackjack and Hookers!

On a more serious note, OP, I believe the justifications of war are all relative and situation-based. Of course each side will see themselves as right.

From an economic standpoint, you gotta have the means to wage a war. Flowery words and pretty propaganda aren't going to vanquish those that stand in your way.

 

[Aim64C]

You should make your own country, Aim, with Blackjack and Hookers!

Most homo sapiens (I refuse to use the term 'humans' or 'people' in broad terms to refer to those things matching our overall genetic profile) are simply too stupid to create any kind of meaningful government - or to form the backbone of anything approaching a functional society.

Most people are dysfunctional. They can't figure out how to pay their bills when they make twice as much as their living expenses. Most of them couldn't tell you how/why a toilet worked if their life depended on it - and they shit on one every day (and many likely pay regular homage to the porcelain god after a night at the bar). Most wouldn't even know how to go about building a chair out of legos (even if it wasn't supposed to hold any kind of weight) - let alone wood.

Yet they are social animals with sharp predatory instincts. They are born oddly cunning and manipulative.

Those that cannot create manipulate and destroy in order to survive like any animal would. Those who are only marginally smarter (the 'mediocre' crowd) are, interestingly, worse. They are trainable and generally accept that there is a cause-effect relationship between their choices and the outcomes in life they get.

This makes them think they are actually relevant, intellectually - which is the dangerous part. Most often, they reject their survival instincts and give power to the destructive and manipulative individuals. They think they are educated and resistant to such things - but they're just smart enough to amount to being more than a labor drone or breeding stock.

The very small percentage that exist within the third category couldn't really create a country.

The best we could do is try to form our own social collectives that strive to research advanced technology and manufacturing methods that will ensure our likes always have the edge... but you're talking about a country that believes in not being a country.

That's like saying: "I'm going to make a room with no walls."

I mean... I could make 'a country' that has my ideals about what a government should do.

It would be all ****ed to hell in a century. People elected to office would want to find things to do so they can tell their voting constituents: "this is what I did for you." People do not complain when they have things done for them - so the government's power grows. The number of things the elected officials look to do for their people increase in magnitude and scope.

Eventually - you have people in one group who want one set of things, and people in another group who are adamantly opposed to those things being done. A society that started wanting to be left alone quickly becomes one of self-intervention and conflict.

Just look at our representatives and how they truly think the world is going to come to an end if the government 'shuts down.'

It's not -good- for the government to shut down. But it's hardly the end of the world (and certainly not worse than increasing the debt ceiling perpetually).

Yet they truly believe that. They truly believe that our lives all depend upon what goes on in DC. And while that's true to a point (everything they do has an impact on us)... we are certainly capable of going on about our lives without them.

Unless that trend in social perspective miraculously reverses - our society will collapse.

Further - I'm not sure its possible to scrub the stench of failure from our genes. Even if the most radical eugenics program were enacted - I don't think that those trends can be eliminated (perhaps because the implementation of such a program would require those resorting to such extremes... which would be like murdering people to eliminate murderers) - it's possibly a sort of law of the universe (kind of like how fermions cannot occupy the same state as each other).

Even if the 'cult' of people who believe in such principles were to launch off in a space station and live completely according to their ideals - it would probably not take long for them to start fighting amongst each other to the degree where micro-politics begin to form and, from them, larger politics and even 'wars' of conquest for domination/subjugation.

As they say - the path to hell is lined with good intentions.

 

[Nous]

Yes, but very rarely..
—
Generally it isn't. The brain can convince itself of anything.. They whole world can think you're the villain but you still paint yourself as a hero. Quite deceiving your mind can be, that's for sure. War leads to people dying all over, destroying a nation and ruining lives—It corrupts the minds of children and young men and women who fought. Damage done due to war [psychological, emotional, physical] are, many times out of the total, are incurable.

When is war justified? Self-Defence... For example, Operation Barbarossa. Germany was unjustified in attacking the Soviet Union, especially in the manner they did but the Soviets launching the counter-offensive was justified as it was self defense.. Well until they got to Poland and Hungary. Certain acts such as ferocious killing [of young children], rape, sexual assault, abuse of any sort is unjustified in my opinion, regardless the case [with an exception of abortion of killing]. Killing can be justified in my opinion but it's all complicated.

But in any case, war should be avoided at all costs.

​

 

[shelke]

How arrogant.

I simply want to be able to have a business where I take various construction components and build unique cars, planes - even space craft out of them. I'd like to have several kids and to teach them what I and others have learned about how the universe works and how to interact with others. I'd like to have a decent amount of land for them to be able to wander through and explore (and also because I don't like having my elbows crowded). I'd like to have a farm, wine cellar, an indoor pool with fireplace next to it (with the same red-brick structure as the wine cellar) and a mini-bar.

I don't care if you **** your brother, camel, or life-sized stuffed animals. I don't care if you want to live in a hammock and eat tree bark (hell, I might even pay you to come live on my property for the entertainment value, from my perspective).

I may not think those are good ways to live - but that's not my decision.

However - I do not appreciate people telling me how I have to live because they insist I must be part of their society (collective stupidity, usually) - and must therefor pay for it to exist and for all of the good things it provides.

They believe this quite adamantly, in fact. So much so that they will attempt to take away access to my bank accounts (which they have forcibly taken over from real banking businesses) or even send people to my house armed with lethal weapons to force me into compliance with what others think is the right way to live (despite the fact that I am not causing harm or using force on other people).

What manner of recourse is there? There isn't any. People of my ideology are inherently at a disadvantage in these dealings. It's easy to get people to advocate intervention. All someone has to do is do something culturally objectionable - and you can have laws written to 'stop it from happening' (even though laws cannot stop anything). It's not so easy to advocate non-intervention and insulation of political/social power/influence.

Which is why it will always come down to a host of drones trying to force free people into some form of oppression or another. Which is why people like myself will, eventually, come to a sort of unspoken consensus that the time is right - and we'll cull that population. Brutally.

This is just one of the many inevitable cycles of human social behavior that lead to war.

War is a natural thing. It's neither good nor bad. It is one of the most extreme expressions of conflict we can muster.

The first of your paragraphs' hardly adds anything to your overall argument and simply gives me a ludicrous insight on what you desire about your family and state of living, which frankly speaking, I never asked for. The second two attempt something along the lines of depreciation, but it seem to have lost their meaning in translation. If you are in a habit of prolonged replies, then try to incorporate the rules of paragraph writing with appropriate connecting sentences. Moving on ...

What people, which society? Society in general or do you have some specific group in mind? Try to elucidate your points. Your though patterns are quite desultory and this isn't 'Stream of Consciousness' debate forum. By and by ... The collective human IQ is sub-par, henceforth, you are not the lone-wolf here, who believes however adamantly that the majority need to be stopped from procreation altogether, let alone left to their own devices, or the ability to dictate others in regards to shaping their lives, let it be on political, sociological, or any other grounds.

These are your justifications for war? Quite ridiculous. Perhaps if civilizations such as from where you belong would be expunged, then we wouldn't have such discrepancy in regards of power-balance, or thought-patterning, or general cultural ethos. Furthermore, the Jingoistic propaganda fed to the general masses gives rise to the thought of necessary evils and the ensuing wars.

There is nothing natural about war other then humans that are plagued by transcendent evil. There is always a viable option to weed out such people brutally and let the others flourish, kind of like, a forced winnowing which human race always seems to avoid.

 

[YowYan]

It's always justified. Duh.
Weather it's righteous, is usually suvjective and almost always not as any inhumane act is attrocious. < did I spell that right?

 

[Netferarri]

Depends really.