can kakashi beat sasuke ?

what is kakashi chances of beating sasuke

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Optimistic

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I refuse to read this thread i'm afraid that i might read ludicrous posts from 'Kamui gg' spammers.
EMS Sasuke completely manhandles Kakashi the only argument for Kakashi is Kamui which is honestly pathetic since they know its the only move would that can make an impact when faced with great power.
 

Black Wolf

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Every character has a technique that pushes them above and beyond, essentially their trump card. Kamui is a valid component of Kakashi's arsenal, just like Sasuke's Mangekyo techniques are a valid part of his.
 

Optimistic

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@ Black Wolf: But the funny thing about it its the only thing people say thus making Sasuke vs Kakashi the most boring match up to discuss about.Sasuke has 2 moves that can finish him off which is his arrows and amaterasu.Kakashi on the other hand has what?Kamui? The same Kamui that takes preparation to warp someone of Naruto's size? Amaterasu doesn't have start up lag as seen from the latest chapters Sasuke's eyes no longer bleed so all he has to do is close his eyes then use Amaterasu.

The Kamui argument is flawed since its start up speed is drastically slower than EMS Sasuke's amaterasu.Sasuke is clearly above Kakashi the majority that disagree are Kakashi fans and the classic Sasuke haters.
 

Black Wolf

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But the funny thing about it its the only thing people say thus making Sasuke vs Kakashi the most boring match up to discuss about.

Kakashi is not out of his league here. Kakashi (in my opinion) is clearly superior to Sasuke in base. It is Sasuke who will have to use Mangekyo techniques if he wants to beat Kakashi, not the other way around. Once their ascended arsenals come into play, Sasuke has more diverse Mangekyo techniques at his disposal, but Kakashi has the far quicker attack

Sasuke has 2 moves that can finish him off which is his arrows and amaterasu.Kakashi on the other hand has what?Kamui? The same Kamui that takes preparation to warp someone of Naruto's size?

It didn't need charge up at all. It instantly warped Naruto before a Kamui propelled stake hit him at point blank range.

The Kamui argument is flawed since its start up speed is drastically slower than EMS Sasuke's amaterasu.

Kakashi's Kamui has superior feats. He outsped Obito's Kamui at point blank range, which in turn had previously pushed Hiraishin to its limits.
 

Optimistic

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Kakashi is not out of his league here. Kakashi (in my opinion) is clearly superior to Sasuke in base. It is Sasuke who will have to use Mangekyo techniques if he wants to beat Kakashi, not the other way around.
When did i say Sasuke doesn't need MS moves? Once Sasuke uses Susano'o Kakashi will have absolutely nothing to counter him besides Kamui which is claimed to be a 1 shot move even though it takes prep.
Once their ascended arsenals come into play, Sasuke has more diverse Mangekyo techniques at his disposal, but Kakashi has the far quicker attack

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It didn't need charge up at all. It instantly warped Naruto before a Kamui propelled stake hit him at point blank range.

It wasn't instant at all, if you look at the scan it took time for Kakashi to actually fully warp Naruto.First he focused on the rasengan then he took Naruto in completely THAT is not instant at all. .The kamui wank is unbelievable the move isn't instant why? cause it takes time until the target is actually warped.
Kakashi's Kamui has superior feats. He outsped Obito's Kamui at point blank range, which in turn had previously pushed Hiraishin to its limits.
Doesn't matter If Kamui was instant Naruto would've disappeared the moment he look at him but instead the rasengan began changing shape THEN Naruto got warped.Now lets look at EMS Sasuke all he did was close his eyes then amaterasu ignited his target which was blocked by Obito.No blood,no prep he just went and used it now that's faster than Kamui.Amaterasu and Kamui are not instant far from it actually.

Kakashi can Kamui smaller objects faster but a human takes time.And during that time Amaterasu would already hit Kakashi.
 

Black Wolf

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When did i say Sasuke doesn't need MS moves? Once Sasuke uses Susano'o Kakashi will have absolutely nothing to counter him besides Kamui which is claimed to be a 1 shot move even though it takes prep.

You didn't. However, when you implied Kamui is the only technique that gives Kakashi a chance at victory, you put yourself among the people who find it okay to factor out techniques from a character's arsenal as they deem fit. I countered by using a similar argument, stating the only thing that allows Sasuke to beat Kakashi is his Mangekyo.

It wasn't instant at all, if you look at the scan it took time for Kakashi to actually fully warp Naruto.First he focused on the rasengan then he took Naruto in completely THAT is not instant at all. .

No, he was timing it. Kakashi activating his Mangekyo does not equate to him activating Kamui. He explicitly stated that he had to get the "timing right" for his Kamui to work when he warped Naruto. Kakashi warping Naruto at any moment barring the exact moment he actually warped him would have been useless and Obito would have realized that a clone was camping it out in the other dimension.

The only time he actually had to prep it was for Gedo Mazo's head.

Kakashi can Kamui smaller objects faster but a human takes time.And during that time Amaterasu would already hit Kakashi.

Nothing dictates he has to warp a full body to begin with. The head or neck would suffice.
 

Optimistic

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No, he was timing it. Kakashi activating his Mangekyo does not equate to him activating Kamui. He explicitly stated that he had to get the "timing right" for his Kamui to work when he warped Naruto. Kakashi warping Naruto at any moment barring the exact moment he actually warped him would have been useless and Obito would have realized that a clone was camping it out in the other dimension.
The rasengan was shaking around thus indicating that kakashi was focusing at the rasengan, the next scan shows that Naruto disappeared.Clearly Kakashi had to focus on a smaller point then he increased the amount he wanted to warp after focusing on the smaller point.The amount of hype Kamui is receiving like being 'Instant' makes no sense if this was true shouldn't Kakashi be stronger than Hashirama and Madara? Also that plan of Kakashi timing isn't exactly true even if Obito noticed naruto going into the other dimension he would still have to use Kamui at some point in that fight.All they had to do after warping Naruto was attack Obito to make him use Kamui so that plan of timing the Kamu is false.

Nothing dictates he has to warp a full body to begin with. The head or neck would suffice.
Warping Sasuke's neck would lead to genjutsu since he's looking straight into his eyes.My point still stands Sasuke with his EMS can use amaterasu faster and more precise.Kamu is not faster than Amaterasu.If you still believe Kakashi > Sasuke cause Kamui then that means Kakashi > Madara and Hashirama since apparently they have no counter to it also.

This discussion will never end so there's no point in carrying this out.
 

Microsword57

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I hope that people can deduce the victory according to the comments. Those in favor of Kakashi skip through his entire arsenal to Kamui. Instead of debating Sasuke vs Kakashi they instead choose to debate which is faster Kamui or Amaterasu. While those in favor of Sasuke extend their arguments to Aoda, summoning the hawk, Amaterasu, Susanoo and Susanoo Arrow. This truly is not a fun match-up to debate. It would be more fun to debate basic sharingan Kakashi and Hebi Sasuke because then we would be debating their arsenal to it's fullest.
 
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illidanson

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You could have added something in between 0, 50 and 100 % :D

But i'd say about 15 % or something like that. Sry to say it but I just have a hard time seeing Kakashi beating someone with Amaretatsu, even less someone with Enton. Kakashi doesn't have the speed to block it or any defense to protect against it.

Enton on top of that allows Sasuke to have much more controls over the flames so even if he was to say, use a Doton wall as a shield (And I doubt he could react in time to do that) then Sasuke could probably just manipulate the flames above the wall or something like that. In any case Sasuke is faster than Kakashi and could easily follow it up with another Enton attack before Kakashi has time to react and since he has EMS he can just keep up making more and more flames until he finally gets Kakashi.
 

Optimistic

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I hope that people can deduce the victory according to the comments. Those in favor of Kakashi skip through his entire arsenal to Kamui. Instead of debating Sasuke vs Kakashi they instead choose to debate which is faster Kamui or Amaterasu. While those in favor of Sasuke extend their arguments to Aoda, summoning the hawk, Amaterasu, Susanoo and Susanoo Arrow. This truly is not a fun match-up to debate. It would be more fun to debate basic sharingan Kakshi and Hebi Sasuke because then we would be debating their arsenal to it's fullest.

my point exactly.
 

Netferarri

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Lol if anybody wants to debate im down, Just message me, Sasuke wins low - Mid diff
 

Black Wolf

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The rasengan was shaking around thus indicating that kakashi was focusing at the rasengan, the next scan shows that Naruto disappeared.Clearly Kakashi had to focus on a smaller point then he increased the amount he wanted to warp after focusing on the smaller point.

The Rasengan being distorted is a visual cue that Kamui is being used. It does not show the passage of time whatsoever. Naruto was an inch away from a Kamui propelled stake hitting him in the face, and Kakashi warped him before that stake came in contact with him.

The amount of hype Kamui is receiving like being 'Instant' makes no sense if this was true shouldn't Kakashi be stronger than Hashirama and Madara?

It isn't instant. The only instant technique out there is Hiraishin. Kamui, however, is probably the second jutsu on the speed hierarchy given Minato barely edged out Obito in a battle of pure speed.

Also that plan of Kakashi timing isn't exactly true even if Obito noticed naruto going into the other dimension he would still have to use Kamui at some point in that fight.

Sure, except Obito would be ready if he knew Naruto was already there. Furthermore, nothing ensures that Obito would warp to a spot near the clone. If Obito goes to the Kamui dimension and Naruto's clone is a good distance away, it eliminates the possibility of a surprise attack occurring.

The only reason it worked in the manga was because Obito was forced to go intangible at the same spot that Naruto's clone was warped, which would be difficult to replicate if the timing wasn't exactly right.

Warping Sasuke's neck would lead to genjutsu since he's looking straight into his eyes.

1. I had no idea Sasuke's eyes were on his neck.

2. Since when does Sasuke casually overpower Kakashi in Genjutsu when the latter has shown to be proficient enough in it to match Obito?

My point still stands Sasuke with his EMS can use amaterasu faster and more precise.Kamu is not faster than Amaterasu.

It has the better speed feats. It outsped the same technique that pushed Hiraishin to its limits.

I hope that people can deduce the victory according to the comments. Those in favor of Kakashi skip through his entire arsenal to Kamui.

Not at all. I have already stated that Kakashi is hands down superior in base. He has superior taijutsu skill, utilizes the superior S-ranked version of Sasuke's favorite Raiton, has access to the Suiton element, which trumps any of Sasuke's Katons, and has shown himself to be proficient at in-battle trickery via Kage Bunshin and Doton feints, which have been successful against opponents as insightful as Itachi and Pain.

The only reason I mentioned their ascended arsenals is because that is what this battle will ultimately boil down to.
 
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Optimistic

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^^^^^
I don't know why you replied when i said there's no point, i've lost interest in this Kamui vs Amaterasu feud.
 

Black Wolf

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That is your choice to make. I felt it necessary to respond to / correct items that I believed to be incorrect with your statements.
 
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