Byakugan 白眼 True Origin

Hyuga Prodigy

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Exactly there are still possibilities which is why I still have hope haha. But when you think about it, with rumors that it might end in October or whatever, I think there's also the chance that the series just ends like this. Would it be anti-climatic? Yes(which is why I really hope i'm wrong lol) but then if you think about it, the "arc" that we have just experienced was anti-climatic and so who knows maybe he is just trying to finish it.

Like I said I wanna be wrong, I would be so disappointed if it ends like that T_T
That rumor were fake actually, it's because people had so many advantages of the fake scan that has Japaneese translation to make others believe when in fact it never mentioned anything when this series is going to end except that the Last movie is going to release this December.
 

guts2nevergiveup

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That rumor were fake actually, it's because people had so many advantages of the fake scan that has Japaneese translation to make others believe when in fact it never mentioned anything when this series is going to end except that the Last movie is going to release this December.
Oh really? That's great haha but anyways my point is still the same, if it does end soon, then I don't think he will go into much detail for things that he deems unnecessary for the plot at this point. There are so many things I wish kishi could expand on and hopefully this will tie into the story and we will be able to learn more about it.

You just increased the little hope that I had tho haha thx
 

Hyuga Prodigy

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I fail to see how that is at all logical. The logical conclusion is that we do not know whether or not a more powerful use for it may exist.

When you start digging into Taoism and how it applies to the Naruto Universe.... Taoism IS the Naruto universe. All chakra behaves according to the rules of Taoism (where "Eight Trigrams" came from - so that should grab your attention). It forms the basis for Naruto's seal (the Four Movements that later comprise the Eight Trigrams) and also describes the action of Sage Mode. Becoming a Sage in Taoism is the art of action without effort - wei wu wei. It is also the process of internal alchemy that is intended to produce "true Yang" - which is doing nothing. The abilities of Sage Mode are also in line with Taoist beliefs about what attaining True Yang is like.

Then you consider that the Byakugan is essentially the awareness of Sage Mode without the absorption of chakra. The Byakugan complies with the concept of Taoist sagehood, as well - being "one" with the universe. Neji's talk of Destiny is in line with Taoist Divination within the models of Taoist Destiny. It can be taken that the Byakugan is able to see Destiny - or portions of it (though it is capable of being improperly interpreted - as Neji did regarding Naruto, assuming that the shared destiny of Naruto and Hinata implied Naruto was to lose to him).

I think the Byakugan was far more clearly thought out than the Sharingan - which had a lot of 'make it up as you go along' elements applied to it. Kishimoto got too absorbed in the story of Naruto and Sasuke while leaving his main plot on the back-burner so long that power-creep got the best of his story.

Although there is still plenty of potential for the Byakugan to be 'more powerful.'

The Hyuuga are never depicted using ninjutsu. This is not just because the Hyuuga are 'arrogant' - but likely because they are unable to use ninjutsu.

Here is where a distinction likely exists between the original Head Family and the Branch Family. The Head Family likely descend directly from the Ototsuki. The Branch Family quite possibly descend from Hamura. Along with this, it is quite likely that only the Head Family can fully access the techniques of the Byakugan (and the 'Cursed Seal' likely has a purpose seated in this, as well).

These techniques involve being able to manipulate the flow of nature chakra, directly, thereby eliciting any elemental effect.

I will also posit that the Hyuuga (or Ototsuki) are the original practitioners of what Hagoromo would term "Ninshuu." The "Gentle Fist" was not just a destructive combat art - but also a way of interacting with the natural energies of others (which would exist even without the chakra of the Juubi).

Thus, a Hyuuga who has become a "Sage" would not possess a massive amount of power - merely wield a massive amount of power. Rather than drawing in nature chakra for use in Ninjutsu - the Hyuuga would essentially use Ninshuu upon the universe, itself - which would cause the very fabric of the universe to alter.
This was nicely done, I like your post as usual, it's fun reading. Anyway about the Hyuga royal line I don’t think necessarily think it came from Hamura. In fact I’m not sure Hamura had kids at all. As you've theorized before , the Hyuga might be the Royal line that Kaguya came from as . If Kaguya was a princess then she was only a junior member of the family something that resembe as "Princess Hinata". Witnessing what happened with Kaguya, the family might have instituted the slightly crazy measures put in place to stop branch members running off with the family secrets. Not having any ninjutsu could be linked to them not being descendants of Kaguya and her chakra based techniques that resulted from eating the Shinju’s fruit.




Oh really? That's great haha but anyways my point is still the same, if it does end soon, then I don't think he will go into much detail for things that he deems unnecessary for the plot at this point. There are so many things I wish kishi could expand on and hopefully this will tie into the story and we will be able to learn more about it.

You just increased the little hope that I had tho haha thx
Yea, I hope this doesn't end too soon
 
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Ψ Veritas Ψ

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The Byakugan was a Mutation. When the chakraless princess ate the shinju fruit, her fragile body mutated to be compatible with chakra. Thus the chakra network was born, and the first kekkeigenkai. Her eyes "Byakugan", her body "Senju", her Bones "Kimmi" all enhanced. As ive said before, Byakugan is the eye of chakra, its so connected to chakra, there is little doubt it orignated with it. And where did chakra come from? The Shinju

On the slight chance she had it before eating the fruit, then the theory still stands, except there mustve been another source of chakra wherever she came from
 
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Seventh Sama

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The Byakugan was a Mutation. When the chakraless princess ate the shinju fruit, her fragile body mutated to be compatible with chakra. Thus the chakra network was born. Her eyes "Byakugan", her body "Senju", her Bones "Kimmi" all enhanced. As ive said before, Byakugan is the eye of chakra, its so connected to chakra, there is little doubt it orignated with it. And where did chakra come from? The Shinju

On the slight chance she had it before eating the fruit, then the theory still stands, except there mustve been another source of chakra wherever she came from
I think she must've been already powerful before eating the fruit since Juudara nearly exploded from taking in all the chakra from the MT victims to revive her.
 

Seventh Sama

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No thats just because she is the combination of the fruit and jubi. The fruit most likely contains more chakra than the Jubi itself.
I know but I'd imagine one would need to be strong to withstand the fruits power.
I highly doubt that any random fodder can just eat the fruit and become a god.
 

Ψ Veritas Ψ

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I know but I'd imagine one would need to be strong to withstand the fruits power.
I highly doubt that any random fodder can just eat the fruit and become a god.
Indeed. She was a Warrior Princess afterall :)
And since we're talking about the Fruits Chakra here, absorbed by a chakraless being, instant Mutation isnt farfetched.
 
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Aim64C

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The Byakugan was a Mutation. When the chakraless princess ate the shinju fruit, her fragile body mutated to be compatible with chakra. Thus the chakra network was born, and the first kekkeigenkai. Her eyes "Byakugan", her body "Senju", her Bones "Kimmi" all enhanced. As ive said before, Byakugan is the eye of chakra, its so connected to chakra, there is little doubt it orignated with it. And where did chakra come from? The Shinju


Chakra didn't come from the Shinju.

Ask yourself. From where did the Shinju get the chakra?

The answer is nature.

The Shinju absorbs chakra.

The Ototsuki could direct the flow of chakra.

Why do you suppose the Ototsuki sent Kaguya to consume the fruit?

It was a ritual to be completed every time the fruit bloomed. Using the chakra contained in the fruit the one who consumed it would have the ability to gaze upon the tao and cast the next shadow of destiny.

Normally - the Ototsuki were impartial to human affairs. The Uzumaki tended the tree and safeguarded its secrets while the Ototsuki would consume the fruit, 'do their thing' and depart to the realm of divine beings.

The Byakugan was always part of this. They were a people born with the ability to sense the flow of chakra.

Except something was different when Kaguya came.

She fell in love with the world and its people. She had a particular affection towards a certain Uzumaki who would later father her sons. The Rinnegan was a manifestation of Kaguya's desire to see the suffering of people ended. It represents Buddhism and the cycle of human suffering. With its abilities - one could master the stages of human suffering and use them to put an end to the world's suffering.

The Sharingan represents the Shinto deities that 'will' the natural world. Each 'rung' of the 9-tomoe Sharingan represents a 'world' in which the three Shinto deities are in different relative states to each other. Each Tomoe represents one of the different deities within these worlds.

The Byakugan is the understanding and the 'one-ness' with the natural laws of the universe. It is the mechanical nuts-and-bolts understanding that belies even the deities, themselves.

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Naruto reminds Kaguya (or what was left of her when she encountered him) of the one who gave her her sons.

On the slight chance she had it before eating the fruit, then the theory still stands, except there mustve been another source of chakra wherever she came from
Not really, once you look into the symbolism behind the Byakugan and what it means.

But symbolism is interpretive so it's hard to say where Kishimoto will take what he hasn't already done.
 

Lord of Akatsuki

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Chakra didn't come from the Shinju.

Ask yourself. From where did the Shinju get the chakra?

The answer is nature.

The Shinju absorbs chakra.

The Ototsuki could direct the flow of chakra.

Why do you suppose the Ototsuki sent Kaguya to consume the fruit?

It was a ritual to be completed every time the fruit bloomed. Using the chakra contained in the fruit the one who consumed it would have the ability to gaze upon the tao and cast the next shadow of destiny.

Normally - the Ototsuki were impartial to human affairs. The Uzumaki tended the tree and safeguarded its secrets while the Ototsuki would consume the fruit, 'do their thing' and depart to the realm of divine beings.

The Byakugan was always part of this. They were a people born with the ability to sense the flow of chakra.

Except something was different when Kaguya came.

She fell in love with the world and its people. She had a particular affection towards a certain Uzumaki who would later father her sons. The Rinnegan was a manifestation of Kaguya's desire to see the suffering of people ended. It represents Buddhism and the cycle of human suffering. With its abilities - one could master the stages of human suffering and use them to put an end to the world's suffering.

The Sharingan represents the Shinto deities that 'will' the natural world. Each 'rung' of the 9-tomoe Sharingan represents a 'world' in which the three Shinto deities are in different relative states to each other. Each Tomoe represents one of the different deities within these worlds.

The Byakugan is the understanding and the 'one-ness' with the natural laws of the universe. It is the mechanical nuts-and-bolts understanding that belies even the deities, themselves.

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Naruto reminds Kaguya (or what was left of her when she encountered him) of the one who gave her her sons.



Not really, once you look into the symbolism behind the Byakugan and what it means.

But symbolism is interpretive so it's hard to say where Kishimoto will take what he hasn't already done.
:hyper: Everything you put down is incorrect. The Shinju doesn't absorb Chakra from Nature, it is Chakra itself. It created the world, it existed before such things as Nature existed, everything is connected to the Shinju. All Chakra comes and originates from the Shinju.
Kaguya wasn't sent to eat the fruit, she herself did it to end the endless wars, it was her idea to breach the prohibition. She was the first person to ever consume the fruit, get it right.
Also, its Otsutsuki.
Hagoromo and his brother were the first people born with Chakra, which means Kaguya was the only one who consumed the fruit.
The Uzumaki Clan originated from the Senju Clan. Is that understood?
The Byakugan is connected to the Rinnegan, understood?
The Rinnegan is called the Samsara eye, which represents the cycle of reincarnation or rebirth, not human suffering. It's a 'Divine Eye.'
Both Naruto and Sasuke remind Kaguya of Homura and Hagoromo, I don't know where the **** you got the one who gave her, her sons from.
What fanfiction is this information coming from?
 
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Aim64C

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:hyper: Everything you put down is incorrect.
Prepare to be surprised.

The Shinju doesn't absorb Chakra from Nature, it is Chakra itself. It created the world, it existed before such things as Nature existed, everything is connected to the Shinju. All Chakra comes and originates from the Shinju.
No, all things come from the Divine Female.

Kaguya wasn't sent to eat the fruit, she herself did it to end the endless wars, it was her idea to breach the prohibition. She was the first person to ever consume the fruit, get it right.
No, she was not the first person to consume the fruit.

The fruit is born every 1000 years and it is per tradition that -humans- are to not lay their hands on it.

Kaguya would not meet many people's definition of human.

Also, its Otsutsuki.
I've seen it both ways.

Hagoromo and his brother were the first people born with Chakra, which means Kaguya was the only one who consumed the fruit.
The Uzumaki Clan originated from the Senju Clan. Is that understood?
You're the type of person who is surprised when a character like Kaguya is introduced, aren't you little buddy?

They were the first people born with chakra, yes.

Now how do you suppose that happened?

A certain red haired tree shaman boinked a sky princess.

The Byakugan is connected to the Rinnegan, understood?
Spare for the fact that the Byakugan existed before the Rinnegan.

The Rinnegan is called the Samsara eye, which represents the cycle of reincarnation or rebirth, not human suffering. It's a 'Divine Eye.'
*sigh* A child learns a definition and believes himself to know something?



"Buddhism agrees with the generally negative view that death is the fearful and disastrous culmination of an existence already marred by sorrow and suffering. This tragedy of death is magnified by the certainty of rebirth (again-arising) and the repetition of suffering and death (passing away) in samsara existence. That we are locked in the wheel of life and death is an indication of the fundamental emptiness of existence. The continuity and duration of life and death for each individual is incalculable, since if the collection of the bones of one person's repeated rebirth could be amassed, they would form a mountain of skeletons. This imprisonment in the round of existence, however, is neither arbitrary nor ordained by a huge power. It is rather the result of one's own deeds (kamma), good or bad. Through his deeds each person weaves his own web of fate. It is therefore in the power of each individual to either remain in the endless cycle or to escape from it. For in this cycle he is both cause and effect, the entire act or deed on the one hand, and, on the other hand, the consequence of the act. As an effect of his past deeds he is the product of the past. But as a cause he is a field of possibilities : he has the ability to gradually free himself from the past and to become whatever he wants to be. "



"The cycle of life and death, rebirth and redeath, of delusion and suffering, in which all sentient beings are trapped unless they can break free of the cycle. The “cycle” refers generally to the Six States of Existence (this page), but there are also two, three, four, seven, and twelve kinds of samsara (not discussed herein). The Six States are also known as the Six Paths/Roads of Reincarnation/Transmigration. One must achieve nirvana (enlightenment, satori, emancipation, nibanna) to break free of the cycle. These latter terms are synonomous in modern English usage. See Terminology page for more. In Japan, where Mahayana teachings are widely practiced, groupings of six statues of Jizō Bosatsu are quite common, one for each of the six realms. In the Tantric traditions of Tibet, the Wheel of Life on Tibetan Tankas depicts the six realms with great graphic detail -- the wheel is traditionally clutched in the hands of Yama, the Lord of Death, and shows images of hell, torture, war, human life, divine spirits, and other detailed iconography. See below for Tibetan Wheel of Life Tanka."

It does not necessarily mean - just - reincarnation.

It also refers to phases of our own existence. It corresponds to the cycle of nations. People cycle from contentment to complacency, from complacency to survival instinct, from survival instinct to rebirth, from rebirth to hunger, from hunger to productivity, from productivity to contentment, from contentment to complacency.

Round and round it goes.

This is the cycle Pain is referring to in his lecture:

[video=youtube;asFvPIKBoaI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asFvPIKBoaI[/video]

His speech is in regards to manipulating that cycle - to controlling that cycle and forcing people into various forms of suffering to prompt the next stage.

Both Naruto and Sasuke remind Kaguya of Homura and Hagoromo, I don't know where the **** you got the one who gave her, her sons from.
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Yep.

She's totally referring to her sons in 689.

What fanfiction is this information coming from?
A different one from where you get yours.

You see, the manga has very little to say about the Byakugan just yet.

So it's useless to discuss manga facts, as there are so very little.

It's also very late for me, and I am procrastinating sleep. Look up a few of the threads I've started - there you'll find more of the evidence I've applied to these claims. You'll find a lot more of the answers, there.

Though - again - I've been predicting this stuff for like a year now. No need to pay any attention to what I have to say.

Just remember - it's all an ass-pull with no precedent.
 
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Surely chakra has always existed, If the people before kaguya didn't have chakra, they wouldn't be alive.
That's why when someone looses all their chakra, they die.

So everyone had it, just didn't know about it or how to use it, or how to improve it.
 

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This is something interesting :-

Kaguya's Moon Eye (IT Eye) gets replaced with a circle representing the Sun.

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The Sun represents Kaguya's purification from the Darkness; here it is Moon. She is separated from the Shinju; so her Sun powers come out.

The circle has swirls around it representing the Sun's rays.

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Since, Kaguya is purified; she becomes a rabbit and loses the Third Eye.

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The circle along with the Byakugan has a celestial connection to the Sun.

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The Sun is a source of Preservation as it preserves all life with it's Sunlight.

So, Kaguya may be the Sun Goddess of Preservation and her Doujutsu, The Byakugan represents the Sun.

So, The Byakugan is a Celestial Doujutsu as it was originally called as the sun.

Similarities to the Sun :-

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This is something interesting :-

Kaguya's Moon Eye (IT Eye) gets replaced with a circle representing the Sun.

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The Sun represents Kaguya's purification from the Darkness; here it is Moon. She is separated from the Shinju; so her Sun powers come out.
Kaguya's eye gets replaced with a Sun AND a Moon to represent her being sealed by the sun and moon symbols together. You completely missed the symbolism there.

The circle along with the Byakugan has a celestial connection to the Sun.
Actually the Hyuuga naming schemes all have to do with the sun. It's a stretch to say the doujutsu itself is connected to it. That's like saying Sharingan is connected to fire.
 
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ROHAN

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Kaguya's eye gets replaced with a Sun AND a Moon to represent her being sealed by the sun and moon symbols together. You completely missed the symbolism there.
I don't see any Moon in her Third eye. It's a blank circle representing the Sun.

I won't deny that the sealing was caused by the combination of the Sun and Moon Seals.

The sealing separated the Shinju and Kaguya.

Since, Kaguya represents the Sun, when the sealing started; The Sun came out.

Kaguya's Sun powers coming out and her purification is the end result of the sealing caused by the Sun and Moon Seals.

Actually the Hyuuga naming schemes all have to do with the sun. It's a stretch to say the doujutsu itself is connected to it. That's like saying Sharingan is connected to fire.
Bold : That further proves that the Doujutsu is related to the Sun.

And the Sharingan is connected to Fire. Remember, Amaterasu; The highest form of Fire manipulation.
 
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Draxus

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I don't see any Moon in her Third eye. It's a blank circle representing the Sun.
It's the very last panel you showed. First the eye is blocked partially by a black crescent moon. You might think it's sinking or rolling back, but if you look at the circles of the rinnegan you can tell it's being covered on the right side. The left side gets covered by a white circle sun. These are the same two symbols on Naruto and Sasuke's hands and are even on the respective side they attacked her on. It's showing both, you really don't see the two symbols together?

I won't deny that the sealing was caused by the combination of the Sun and Moon Seals.
Then saying the sun only sealed the eye is intellectual dishonesty in order to make your theory fit better.

The sealing separated the Shinju and Kaguya.

Since, Kaguya represents the Sun, when the sealing started; The Sun came out.

Kaguya's Sun powers coming out and her purification is the end result of the sealing caused by the Sun and Moon Seals.
Yeah you said this already, not sure why you're repeating it. She wasn't separated as you can see the rabbit bijuu didn't detach from the body like the rest. She wasn't purified, her third eye, the source of her power, was sealed away. If she was separated from the shinju then she wouldn't have been inside it when Madara absorbed it. Remember this the exact same technique used on her the first time.

Bold : That further proves that the Doujutsu is related to the Sun.

And the Sharingan is connected to Fire. Remember, Amaterasu; The highest form of Fire manipulation.
It doesn't prove your point, it shows how superficial it is. Yes, all Uchiha have fire release, Yes there is a MS technique that has the hottest flames. No, their is no correlation between all sharingan and fire. Sharingan wasn't derived from fire, gets not boost or upgrades through it, and not every MS has a fire technique. It's the Uchiha Clan that have the connection to fire, just like it's the Hyuuga Clan that have a connection to the sun.
 
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ROHAN

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It's the very last panel you showed. First the eye is blocked partially by a black crescent moon. You might think it's sinking or rolling back, but if you look at the circles of the rinnegan you can tell it's being covered on the right side. The left side gets covered by a white circle sun. These are the same two symbols on Naruto and Sasuke's hands and are even on the respective side they attacked her on. It's showing both, you really don't see the two symbols together?


Then saying the sun only sealed the eye is intellectual dishonesty in order to make your theory fit better.


Yeah you said this already, not sure why you're repeating it. She wasn't separated as you can see the rabbit bijuu didn't detach from the body like the rest. She wasn't purified, her third eye, the source of her power, was sealed away. If she was separated from the shinju then she wouldn't have been inside it when Madara absorbed it. Remember this the exact same technique used on her the first time.
I still think it's a blank space. But, then again the Moon did play a role, so I guess you are right.

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The logic is :-

Juubi = Kaguya (Sun) + Shinju (Earth)

The Moon and Sun Seals Separated Kaguya and Shinju and this causes the sun to come.

Kaguya then detaches from the Gedo Mazou and enters Madara's body :-


This is clear, and you can see that actually the 10-th biju, the rabbit, did escape the mazou just like the others. you can see that unlike the other biju who exactly know what is happening, he is a bit surprised. Then, he did not follow the other biju but stay up and watching until he spit Madara. here is my second interpretation of the page.


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1. The Rabbit is out just like the other biju. Unlike the 9 bijus, he stay on his own

2. The Rabbit notice something inside him

3. He spit the thing inside him out.

4. Here, there is something very interesting. Following panel 3, we could say that it was Madara continuing to fall, but I think it is not Madara falling. If we compare the lines I circled in green, Madara was falling in panel 3 as the Rabbit spit him out. The line there are thin and represent really a body falling. On panel 4, there is no line of falling, but a continuous thick beam that has the same color as the Rabbit. This tells me the Rabbit transferred himself inside Madara after he spit him out. So basically, the Rabbit first spit Madara (3) then transfer himself into Madara (4). Madara's movement and the Rabbit transfer can be distinguished by the difference in lines from (3) to(4).




It doesn't prove your point, it shows how superficial it is. Yes, all Uchiha have fire release, Yes there is a MS technique that has the hottest flames. No, their is no correlation between all sharingan and fire. Sharingan wasn't derived from fire, gets not boost or upgrades through it, and not every MS has a fire technique. It's the Uchiha Clan that have the connection to fire, just like it's the Hyuuga Clan that have a connection to the sun.
No, It's symbolism. Kaguya is the Sun Goddess. The circle represents The Sun. The Byakugan is the Sun's power.
 

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I still think it's a blank space. But, then again the Moon did play a role, so I guess you are right.

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What dude... there is no moon there. That is shadow around a blank juubi eye. You're the kind of person who stares at clouds and says what shapes they are, aren't you? Any way it's 100% not a blank space, I explained it quite clearly before. If it was a blank space they you would still see the complete rinnegan circles on the right side, but you don't, cuz they are covered.

The logic is :-

Juubi = Kaguya (Sun) + Shinju (Earth)

The Moon and Sun Seals Separated Kaguya and Shinju and this causes the sun to come.
Yeah I guess you mean shinju is moon not earth, otherwise it would be completely illogical. However the issue isn't me missing you train of thought. The issue is that I don't agree with your base premise at all.

Kaguya then detaches from the Gedo Mazou and enters Madara's body :-




Yeah... no. I think kaguya put a piece of herself in Madara before spitting him out, but no it didn't jump into Madara. Whenever a bijuu goes into a body it looks like a blob of liquid it's not a straight line. I saw this in another thread, so lets not debate that here, we've derailed this thread enough I think.

No, It's symbolism. Kaguya is the Sun Goddess. The circle represents The Sun. The Byakugan is the Sun's power.
Pretty sure you didn't understand a word of that paragraph. I get that you think it's symbolism. I'm simply disagreeing with that assertion, because there is very weak or no evidence for it.
 
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ROHAN

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Pretty sure you didn't understand a word of that paragraph. I get that you think it's symbolism. I'm simply disagreeing with that assertion, because there is very weak or no evidence for it.
I am just making a connection here. This doesn't mean I am completely right. Nothing is 100 % right until it actually happens in the manga. At least that's what I think.
 
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