If Naruto was able to 'react' to Obito's speed then he wouldn't have been caught. I'll say it again, while hosting the entire Kyuubi's shroud Naruto's speed is nothing spectacular. Leaving the shroud to access this speed will amount to nothing as compared to the Perfect Susano'o a BSM Naruto without the shroud can do nothing to affect Sasuke as his arsenal is limited to Rasengan based offenses, Chou mini Biju Dama and chakra arms. None of this is even phasing Sasuke's defenses I'm not disagreeing that they would not be able to anticipate incoming attacks, I am saying that they would only be able to evade if they are not hosting the entire Kyubi Shroud. Even though Sasuke's Susano'o is damaged, it can be immediately repaired at will. There is no need to speculate on the number of clones and attacks. The Enton-Senbon would not cause the Biju-Dama to explode as it does not add or subtract from it's composition: a specific ration of Black and White chakra. It is the reason why Madara was able to balance the dense entity on Susanoo's swords without an explosion. Which leaves the idea of the Biju-Dama exploding near Sasuke a moot point. The initial claim that BSM Naruto is > PS Sasuke can be labelled an assertion and not fact.
BSM Naruto> PS Sasuke
- Thread starter Wolfus
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BenjerminGaye
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1-You're just looking at one point of the battle, that is when naruto was caught. You're forgeting when naruto was able to track him by sensing him and atack to the point that obito couldn't dodge, so he had to shield himself. That's a big speed feat, and he was with the kurama avatar.
Besides, can he decrease and increase the side of the avatar at his will(and very fast, as seen in the battle with the bijuus) to move faster.
Even naruto BSM in the kyuubi avatar has shown great speeds(to be keeping up with obito for most part of that battle). It is expected that at some point he would be hit by the fastest shinobi at the time, but still, the other parts of the battle are not to be ignored.
Besides, you're forgeting about the other defense mechanism I mentioned(chakra projections) that can be made by him and his clones. And also, the fact that naruto cna leave and acess the kyuubi avatar very fast would help him to evade amaterasu without big problems.
You do realise that naruto even in "human" form is able to make bijuu damas, right? He can project kyuubi's head in a chakra from and use TBB, just like he did with rinnegan obito).
2- But if sasuke's PS(that must take a lot of chakra, considering the power and the size) is constantly damaged, there is a apoint inw hich sasuke might not be able to repair it, or there might eb a point in which continous atacks will crack a part of it and damage him before he repairs the broken part.
3- But wouldn't the enton senbon burn a part of the bijuu dama, and therefore disbalance the TBB and make it explode, as it is a very unstable jutsu? Besides, we've seen that bijuu damas explode even when they hit energy projectiles(such as other bijuu damas), so why wouldn't the same happen with the senbon.
Not only that, but would the senbons hit perfectly all incoming bijuu damas from all directions at time?
And another thing, even if the bijuu dama is hit, saying it wouldn't explode, it would just keep going to the point that would hit sasuke's susanoo. Amaterasu burns really slowly(as seen witht he raikage and even with madara, since he had time to make fun of sasuke without getting his hair damaged before he absorbed it, or took the armot off). So there is a big chance that the bijuu dama would still hit.
4- We're discussing that exactly.
slimreaper
Active member
ok now show me a difference. all you did was say sage mode multiplies without really proving it. naruto has done as much damage with a regular rasengan as he did with the sage mode rasengan. give me some feats
adeshina365
Active member
BSM Naruto hasn't shown any feats to indicate that he's better than BM Naruto, bar advanced sensing capabilities.
adeshina365
Active member
I guess their powers are comparable, although I doubt if they would kill each other if they fought. I think it would be the same as the first time when they fought - battle would be close, but one of them would have the upper hand in the end.
adeshina365
Active member
Agreed.
Based purely on feats I agree with the OP that Naruto has a clear edge over Sasuke, but that's mainly because we haven't seen Sasuke go crazy with PS+Enton. Nonetheless, Kishimoto's intent should be clear to everyone, 'current' Naruto ≈ Sasuke.
A sci fri writer from my country, Stanislaw Lem once said: "I never knew that there are so many idiots until I used internet".
Well, there you go.
Keeping up with obito, the juubi jinchuriki, is a feat. The reason that you can't notice too much difference between naruto BM and naruto BSM is because the enemies fought were too different. Naruto BM fought some bijuus, and then obito a little bit. Naruto BSM fought a much stronger, faster oponent, that was the juubi jinchuriki.
Other than that, there is no reason to believe Naruto BSM= Naruto BM. It's the same as saying naruto SM= base naruto.
We all know how SM works:
This is very important: after entering SM, the atributes of the user get a serious power up(strength, durability, speed, etc)
Now, let's understand what happens in BSM. Naruto is in BM, and then, he enters sage mode. Kurama's chackra can sync perfectly with senjutsu chakra. Naruto enters BSM.
In this situation, it's easy to see that, for BSM, Naruto BM acts as a base form. What does this mean? It means that BSM is an amplified version of the BM, all the atributes were increased, as it is how the SM works.
SM was portrayed as a multiplier, increasing the user's atributes in proportions. In this case:
Naruto BSM/ Naruto BM= Naruto SM/ Naruto base form= X. X is the constant of multiplication of the SM, the multiplying factor of the SM.
So you multiply by X thr atributes of the base form, in this case, naruto BM is a base form to BSM.
As kurama's chakra managed to sync perfectly with the SM, being in BM doesn't prevent the multiplying factor to be applied.
Another thing people say is: "Ah, but kurama comes from juubi, so it's natural energy, so it doesn't increase the power". That's a mistake. The bijuu chakras clearly changed from when they were the juubi, and from when they were natural energy. Bijuu chakra=/= natural energy and =/= senjutsu chakra.
The proof is that naruto needed to enter SM to affect obito, even while in KCM and BM. And even juugo's sage chakra from his sage transformation, that is an incomplete SM, could do it. And let's remember that juugo's senjuutsu was mixed with susanoo So, kurama's chakra is very different from senjutsu chakra and from natural energy.
Another thing is that: "NO, because BM is more powerful, so SM wouldn't make a diference". This is false. When naruto enters SM in BM, naruto is in sync with all of kurama's chakra. BM acts like a base form to BSM. Naruto gathers natural energy to make the balance with all that chakra, his plus kurama's. That's why his power would get amplified either way, because he is balancing natural energy with his BM, and not just with his chakra.
That means that the multiplier is still aplied.
With BSM, compared to BM, naruto is stronger, is faster, more resistant, more durable can heal himself faster and better, is more powerful, has better reflex, and has better sensor abilities
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This is very important: after entering SM, the atributes of the user get a serious power up(strength, durability, speed, etc)
Now, let's understand what happens in BSM. Naruto is in BM, and then, he enters sage mode. Kurama's chackra can sync perfectly with senjutsu chakra. Naruto enters BSM.
In this situation, it's easy to see that, for BSM, Naruto BM acts as a base form. What does this mean? It means that BSM is an amplified version of the BM, all the atributes were increased, as it is how the SM works.
SM was portrayed as a multiplier, increasing the user's atributes in proportions. In this case:
Naruto BSM/ Naruto BM= Naruto SM/ Naruto base form= X. X is the constant of multiplication of the SM, the multiplying factor of the SM.
So you multiply by X thr atributes of the base form, in this case, naruto BM is a base form to BSM.
As kurama's chakra managed to sync perfectly with the SM, being in BM doesn't prevent the multiplying factor to be applied.
Another thing people say is: "Ah, but kurama comes from juubi, so it's natural energy, so it doesn't increase the power". That's a mistake. The bijuu chakras clearly changed from when they were the juubi, and from when they were natural energy. Bijuu chakra=/= natural energy and =/= senjutsu chakra.
The proof is that naruto needed to enter SM to affect obito, even while in KCM and BM. And even juugo's sage chakra from his sage transformation, that is an incomplete SM, could do it. And let's remember that juugo's senjuutsu was mixed with susanoo So, kurama's chakra is very different from senjutsu chakra and from natural energy.
Another thing is that: "NO, because BM is more powerful, so SM wouldn't make a diference". This is false. When naruto enters SM in BM, naruto is in sync with all of kurama's chakra. BM acts like a base form to BSM. Naruto gathers natural energy to make the balance with all that chakra, his plus kurama's. That's why his power would get amplified either way, because he is balancing natural energy with his BM, and not just with his chakra.
That means that the multiplier is still aplied.
With BSM, compared to BM, naruto is stronger, is faster, more resistant, more durable can heal himself faster and better, is more powerful, has better reflex, and has better sensor abilities
I'm giving him almost the same lvl as PS madara, but I know it's not as powerful. I kind of covered that when I explained PS, but it's hard to tell indeed.
And yeah, both are getting new power ups.
DemonicAvenger
Active member
Even IF you gave Sasuke's Perfect Susano'O Madara's feats, BM Naruto is still easily the superior. Much less BSM.
Add on top of that Sasuke was exuasted in one attack using Perfect Susano'O against Obito after having his Chakra replenished by Naruto's Cloak.DemonicAvenger said:
Nagato The Sage
Member
Sasuke's PS is featless, and any changes from Sage Biju Mode and Biju Mode are featless.
As it is, Naruto wins.
As it is, Naruto wins.