I'm not sure, but I'm going to go with no, he did not let him break out. Itachi was surprised when he escaped, so what clue does that tell you? Also, as most people pointed out, there was no indication or notice that Itachi went easy on the Tsukuyomi.
breakin' up Itachi's genjutsu, debunked...
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Urda
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Scan please? I believe you got Itachi skill in Genjutsu confused with Madara skill. It was only said that Itachi could control the length of time.
UltimateDeadpool
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Itachi was able to control the perception of time inside of Tsukiyomi, like a dream. It's function is still to cause mental trauma. Educate yourself.
Indeed.
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Scooby Doo
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You're right somewhat. Sasuke use both his cm+3-tomoe to break out of Tsukiyomi. Itachi was just trying to push him to his limits so he could save him from Oro.
But the thing is that pacifist Itachi prolonged the Tsukiyomi in the real world so that it would last more than a sec so he would be able to break out. So Sasuke did break out of it himself, but Itachi was expecting it.
UltimateDeadpool
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It's hilarious how people have a 101 excuses for Itachi.
Since Tsukiyomi feels like it lasts 3 days in the opponent's mind, Sasuke literally had 3 days to break it.
Why do you keep calling him "Pacifist Itachi"? You are trying to lead people on, but the fact is that Itachi was a ruthless killer.
Conspirator.
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Didn't sasuke use the cm within the illusion, in other words he didn't use it in the real world?
UltimateDeadpool
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People have excuses for Itachi because Kishimoto pretty much wrote tons of excuses for him.
No, it doesn't matter how long it lasts in the illusion, by the way Itachi can control the time it lasts in the illusion. It doesn't always last 3 days, it didn't even last an hour in the illusion that he used for Sasuke. If Itachi were serious and not intending for Sasuke to break it, then he would have used a worse form of it and made sure it lasted only a second in real life, so that Sasuke would not have a chance to break it. It is also obvious that Itachi made it last longer than a second in real life, considering that Zetsu had times to make comments about it while it was happening. Obito also stated that even the contingencies in the fight were a part of Itachi's plan & after he states that, Sasuke has a flashback to the Tsukiyomi.
I only referred to him as a "pacifist" once. I was mainly being sarcastic, I don't consider Naruto, Itachi, nor any shinobi to be a pacifist. However, I suppose that he was as close to being a pacifist as a shinobi could get, considering that he tended to avoid physically hurting his opponents in most of his battles and decided to use genjutsu in order to end battle quickly. It also isn't helping your claim about him being a ruthless killer when he didn't kill anyone after the massacre and when he killed, he didn't want to and was actually ordered to do so. Also doesn't help that he hated himself for it even though he had no choice and that Kishimoto, the manga, and the databook have stated that he was a pacifist.
UltimateDeadpool
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There's no way for any aspect of Itachi to be as great as what you and others argue. It's all based on hyperboles, no-limit fallacies, and as I said before, excuses. Which I admit, Kishimoto did make it all too easy with his vagueness, but it takes bias to define the vagueness and to ignore other details. Do I believe Itachi's incredibly powerful? Yes. Do I believe that he's near the top of the list? Yes. However, I also believe that he's in a group with some others, and that there are those even above them.
Itachi can control the perception of time IN Tsukiyomi, it should still only work in real-time for a few seconds regardless of the length of time perceived within the illusion, whether that be 3 minutes or 3 days.
Sasuke had those flashbacks remembering Itachi using his most powerful moves against him and calling Obito a liar.
In that post, I do believe that you've made a reference to "Pacifist Itachi" in another, but ok. Itachi did kill people, saying he didn't just because we didn't see him is like saying that Madara never killed anyone before being resurrected. Just because we didn't see it, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Itachi especially was doing missions for Akatsuki. Also, Itachi was actually ordered by Hiruzen to stall for more time for negotiations, Itachi did it under his own accord to take out his clan. This isn't hinted or suggested, it's downright stated. Itachi actually went against direct orders from the Hokage to murder his clan in order to save Konoha and Sasuke from the resulting civil war. Even before the massacre, Itachi was made leader of Konoha's elite team of assassins... what do you think they did?
Everything we're told about Itachi is contradictory. He was a candy-loving pacifistic hippie, that just so happened to be a cold manipulating assassin that believed the ends justifies the means. I truly do believe that Itachi was retconned, perhaps due to unforseen popularity, and then Kishimoto spent the later part of the manga trying to force us to believe it.
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But he didn't have those flashbacks while Obito was merely stating that Itachi did not kill his clan out of malice towards them, he had those flashbacks when Obito stated that the entire fight was planned by Itachi, even the contingencies.
Lol. I don't really think that Itachi was a pacifist, as in one comparable to the real world. It's logically not possible for a pacifist to exist in the shinobi world, they are all killers. But I guess that he's as close as he gets to one when you look at shinobi, just thinking at his fighting style. That's the only reason why I said it in former posts.
Well, it's not exactly the same. We were told that Madara was in a war and loves to fight, therefore he obviously killed people. For Itachi, we are told that he prefers to avoid fighting and his only mission in Akatsuki was to capture Naruto, which he purposely failed at, considering that if he really wanted to he and Kisame could have just walked into Konoha and grabbed kid Naruto at anytime. There's not a reason to believe he killed people, nor is there any reason to believe he completed any other missions for Akatsuki. Not really. Hiruzen let Danzo do whatever he wanted for over 50+ years behind his back and was totally fine with it. Itachi only did what he did because his clan was going out either way and he did protect Konoha & his clan's honor. Upon hearing about the massacre, what did Hiruzen do about Danzo who issued the order? Nothing, he kept his position for many more years and was happy about it. Hiruzen even supported Itachi's choice, praised his intelligence, etc. Itachi actually followed orders and made the better choice. It was Hiruzen's failed leadership (he's too kind-hearted) and the Uchiha clan's arrogance which caused the massacre to happen.
Yes, the Anbu are an elite team of assassins. But they are also under the order of the Hokage and follow orders from the elders. They still benefit Konoha. All the shinobis kill in this manga. You could refer to Naruto or anyone else as an assassin. Really, Kishimoto should not refer to a single one of them as a pacifist, but if he has to refer to one, I guess it might as well be Itachi due to his fighting style. But he still really shouldn't refer to any of them as pacifists anyway.
I don't think he was retconned. Under Itachi's profile in the first databook, it states nearly nothing except for the fact that he had only one S-Rank mission, which was a huge indicator to everything not looking the way it seemed. The 1st databook was released well before pt2 came around. Imo he always wanted to portray Itachi as an antihero, he just wanted to shock the audience with a huge plot twist. I thought it was well-done and there were hints even back in pt1. I just think that he didn't think it through completely. Kishimoto has admitted that in pt1, he had mostly everything planned, but some aspects in pt2 were not (such as the war, edos coming back, etc). He probably didn't know how far he would go with portraying Itachi as a good guy and therefore made him as ambiguous as possible. Itachi's a pretty complex character and I actually think he's well-written.
I also admit that I am biased. My favorite characters are in no order Tobirama, Minato, Itachi, Naruto, and Kakashi. I'm probably biased when it comes to all of them. But then again, everyone is biased, because we all have an opinion. But the fact of the matter is that due to what Kishimoto wrote, Itachi is an antihero who benefitted Konoha. That's a fact that came from the author, whether anyone likes it or not.
Scooby Doo
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He was acting through the whole time to be a bad guy but never mind...
UltimateDeadpool
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Obito was talking out of his ass, really. What contigencies? Did he know about the Amaterasu trap and crow? He watched the fight and spun a nice little story for Sasuke. For instance, Itachi wanted Sasuke to kill him out of poetic justice, Itachi said that himself, but Obito said that Itachi wanted a village that loved and respected Sasuke to love and respect him for killing Itachi.
What about that hippie Hiruzen? Or Hashirama?
But Itachi was one of Konoha's elite killers, and that wasn't Itachi's only mission. The first thing I need to point out is that Akatsuki did ninja missions, all of Akatsuki were killing people for money, there's no reason to believe Itachi was exempt; especially if he was trying to keep his cover. Secondly, Itachi was assigned to capture Gaara. He showed up during the Chuunin exams, but they ended early because of Orochimaru's attack and Gaara left, so he convinced Kisame to go with him and capture Naruto instead.
Hiruzen didn't just let Danzo do whatever he wanted. He let Danzo do some of the dirty work, but there were things he wouldn't let Danzo do. Once he found out about Root he shut it down, but Danzo kept it going in secret.
Danzo didn't issue an order to Itachi, he did it of his own volition because he knew what was at stake. All Danzo did was suggest it and Itachi agreed. Nothing would obviously happen to Danzo because of the secrecy of the situation, any actions would raise suspicions.
I was just pointing out that Itachi is a killer. I agree though, he shouldn't refer to any of them as a pacifist. Hell, Naruto's the closest thing to a pacifist since he has never killed anyone.
You and I differ then, because I don't feel like anything Itachi did makes sense in retrospect, and I don't know what those hints were other than being affably evil. Him leaving Sasuke alive and driving him to unlock MS so Itachi can take his eyes and get EMS is really the only thing that makes perfect sense, and I my jaw was even to the floor. Everything else is just happenstance and really coincidental that it worked out half as well as it did... even though none of it really worked out at all.
I will admit that I am a little biased at times, but I try to be objective and fair as possible whatever my views may be, and often support the underdog when I feel they aren't being treated fairly.
And you are right, that is what Kishimoto wrote which makes it true. I do however feel that it was a retcon and that's why it seems poorly executed with plot holes. It's said and done though, can't change that.
There is no proof to support this argument and every single proof points towards the fact that Sasuke broke it on his own. It was fated to happen this way. His Sharingan is supposed to resist the Mental Sensations given by the Genjutsu as stated by the manga. Even the data book supports it.
Yes, Itachi did say that he felt it was only right for him to die at the hands of an Uchiha (Sasuke), because he is the one who ended his clan. However, that wasn't just Obito saying random things. Itachi also himself stated that he hoped that Sasuke would return to Konoha as a hero due to killing an S-Rank criminal. This was confirmed that it would have worked had Sasuke gone back and Obito never intervened, when Sasuke has a flashback of Konoha shinobi calling Itachi a scumbag and praising Sasuke, saying that he should be awarded medals and even given his own team if he were to come back. Then Sasuke did his stunt at the kage summit which changed people's perceptions. However, he is currently helping in the war now, so he still certainly has a shot at redemption and very may well be perceived as somewhat of a hero by the time this series is over.
No. Not really. The only time we ever saw any of them ever go on a mission to go get money was when Zetsu requested that either Deidara or Kakazu go on one. The others were not asked to do so, and Deidara even refused and said he wasn't interested in money. Kakazu was more than happy to go. To say that Itachi randomly went around killing people in order to get cash is just fanfic when that this was never been proven, it isn't in his character, and Deidara got off w/ refusing.
No, the manga stated that Itachi was assigned to capture Naruto. He purposely failed at it. Deidara was assigned to capture Gaara and did. The manga stated that Itachi wasn't even there for Naruto in the first place, he was merely using him as an excuse so Akatsuki wouldn't think anything of his visit. He only wanted to make his presence known after Hiruzen's death, so that Danzo would remember not to touch Sasuke. Right now, from what I see from your posts, I can tell that you are biased against Itachi and just don't understand the character. Even if he makes sense, you just choose to make up your own fanfic & ignore the facts about him and view him as something he is not, because what he really is just doesn't suit you. But I guess that's okay.
Danzo didn't order Itachi to do it? No, I'm pretty sure he did lol. It wasn't a suggestion, it was "Your clan is dying either way no matter what, you can either die with them & your honor can go down the drain, or you can stop them and it can be saved & your little brother will too so he can avenge the clan and restore it". Hiruzen did let Danzo do whatever he wanted. You just pointed out that Hiruzen attempted to shut down Root, but then Danzo didn't care and it continued. That just proved my point. He was a weak leader. He could have demoted Danzo, he could have had him executed after the massacre incident and told a lie, but he didn't. He let him do whatever he wanted and even praised Itachi's decision. He believes that dark things are needed to go on in the village in order to balance it and keep it standing. He accepts that. And Hiruzen/Hashirama? Yeah, they praised Itachi for what he did.
The Anbu isn't known to be only an elite assassination team. In fact, they aren't even known for that, they are known for merely being a secretive organization that is under the hokage but completes missions under the hokage and the elders. Not every mission they go on involves killing, though I'm sure some have considering that any mission, even the missions Tsunade sent Naruto on can involve killing someone. They are all elite killers, they're shinobi lol. And no, I wouldn't even consider Naruto as a genuine pacifist, nor any other ninja. Btw, Naruto has killed two people. He killed Mizuki and that sand jonin who was one of Sasori's spies. Itachi is the one stated to be a pacifist and is as close to one as any of these shinobi are ever going to get.
Well, I guess our points of view do differ greatly then. To me most of the things he did do make sense and he had a reason for doing them. From his first appearance, I didn't think he was completely evil and when I heard his statement during his fight w/ Sasuke that he wanted to take Sasuke's eyes and gain EMS, I was laughing. It sounded like total BS & it was. I was expecting the plot twist, Kishimoto made his character purposely ambiguous and didn't include everything that went on that night for a reason.
That's fine. Everyone is biased to an extent. I don't believe it was a retcon and actually think that Itachi was well-written. That's just me though and I understand if people wish to disagree. We all have our own opinions.
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UltimateDeadpool
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True enough, the problem is that Sasuke was already beloved by everyone and started off destined for great things.
When was this event? Either way, Akatsuki was going on missions to collect money to fund the organization and it's goals. Itachi didn't go without lifting a finger, especially if he didn't want to raise suspicions.
It's also not fanfic, it's fact. You can say it didn't happen because you didn't see it, but you could also say that the sun just magically appears because you don't see it rise while you're asleep. Itachi was working for Akatsuki, he did kill people, and Jinchuuriki. They all did.
Jog my memory, where is it stated? Because capturing Kurama too soon would throw Gedo Mazo out of balance. Also, when Itachi and Kisame first appear in Konoha, Kisame comments on how Gaara had already left. Why does that matter if they are after Naruto? Is it coincidental that Gaara has the first Bijuu?
That part about Danzo was a lie by Obito.
I'm the opposite, actually. I feel that I understand Itachi better than most of his fans, and by being objective it gets me labeled as a "hater." It is his fans that have these rose-colored glasses on and see only the best, and ignore or make excuses for anything they deem unfavorable. Everything I say comes direct from the manga, no interpretations or anything, just what's said. For instance, Itachi worked for Akatsuki, but you say he didn't because we're not shown what he has been doing for 10 years. What? Just going around sleeping in motels and eating candy? Maybe him and Kisame paint each others' toe-nails? That's called being in denial.
Danzo didn't. Danzo reminded Itachi of what would happen if the Uchiha were allowed to proceed with their coup, that Sasuke would get drawn into the resulting civil war, and whichever side came out victorious, they would be destroyed by their enemies taking advantage of their weakness. Itachi knew what he had to do. And even then, you hail Itachi as a hero for it, so why do you blame Danzo for it? Does that not make him a hero as well for taking steps to save Konoha? That's hypocritcal. Again, those rose-colored glasses.
Hiruzen didn't let Danzo do "whatever" he wanted. Danzo was tasked with the CIA stuff, Hiruzen left himself to oversee the village and it's well-being. Danzo did do things without Hiruzen's knowledge, but not knowing isn't the same as permission.
And again, why have Danzo executed but hail Itachi as a hero?? How is one good and the other evil? That doesn't make sense... or am I just being "biased" against Itachi again? See I consider Itachi in the right, so I also consider Danzo in the right; you however see Itachi as a hero, but you actually disapprove of what he did so you vilify Danzo so to keep Itachi looking squeaky clean. Itachi is the hero for doing it, and Danzo is the villain for "telling" him to do it. And despite being the "right thing to do," you refuse to let it be Itachi's decision.
It's pretty convenient how Itachi's excuse for allowing Sasuke to live matched up with the bloody history of the Uchiha clan. He needed Sasuke's MS to get more powerful, that's why he let him live and ruined his life. I actually didn't like Sasuke very much, but the more I learned about Itachi, the more I sympathized with Sasuke. Even when Edo Itachi was resurrected, as much of a douche as Sasuke was being, I was like "just f'n be nice to Sasuke for once!"
Itachi tortured and mindscrewed his baby brother into a genocidal maniac and forcing the Uchiha's curse of hatred upon him, all in an effort for poetic justice. He traumatized Sasuke, made him depressed and suicidal, along with having severe inferiority issues along with a big chip on his shoulder and a lack of trust and love for other people after that night. But when Sasuke finally started to break out of his shell, start to make friends and be happy, Itachi broke his bones, choked him, taunted him, and mindscrewed him again; telling him to murder Naruto... and Sasuke almost did, well actually he tried and failed. He left Konoha to join their enemy, Orochimaru, for more power. Luckily for both Sasuke and Itachi, Orochimaru wasn't able to take Sasuke's body... even though Orochimaru really should had just locked Sasuke in a cage for 3 years instead of making him strong enough to resist. Anyway, this lead to Sasuke attempting again to kill his former friends a few times before crossing the moral event horizon and going full psycho. Sure, Itachi set a trap for Obito, but he really didn't think it would work anyway and left a back-up... to mindscrew Sasuke one last time.
And what had Itachi been doing working as a double-agent within Akatsuki? Nothing. He didn't reveal any information, he didn't help Konoha or hinder Akatsuki, nothing. He helped Akatsuki, and is just as culpable for the war as it is now as any other member of Akatsuki... in fact more-so because he was supposed to be the good guy.
And here's the kicker, Itachi admitted that what he did was wrong and there was a better way, yet you still "understand and agree" with everything Itachi did even though he disagrees with you.
About Itachi, I can understand what he did to save Konoha and Sasuke (even though I don't know why he didn't tell anyone about "Madara"), but I can't understand why he was so unshakably cruel to Sasuke. I don't know, maybe because I was abused, betrayed, lied to, and controlled by my family that what Itachi did as a "loving brother" just angers me. And if he was planning on taking a dive the whole time, then it didn't really matter how powerful Sasuke was.
Also, him being a spy just seems like a retcon because he didn't do anything a spy would do, Konoha had to find everything out the hard way. Him being a good guy and a spy don't add up. Hell, Itachi didn't even take a dive anyway, Itachi's body gave out. Before he croaked, he was trying to make Sasuke shit himself so he didn't even get his poetic justice.
I'm not telling you to dislike Itachi, you can like Itachi, and if Kishimoto changed his mind and made Itachi a hero then that makes Itachi a hero. However, be reasonable here. Just because you like Itachi doesn't mean that his farts have to smell like flowers.
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