Are you suggesting then that nearly ALL jinchuuriki's (Juubi excluded) TBB is useless and not lethal just because it hasn't killed anyone with it? That's like saying if Tsukuyomi hasn't killed any ninja it's useless....correct me if I'm interpreting this wrongly.
You're avoiding the comment....you're acting as if this is supposed to be ridiculous which it ain't. You can't just start saying that something beats another unless you actually provide proof/evidence......the chakra arms have not been shown to be dispersed by Susano'o therefore this "Susano'o tanks chakra arms zero difficulty" crap is false and backed up by nothing...unless you can provide evidence from the manga defending this I stand corrected.
I can agree that Sasuke is very close if not equal with Naruto right now, but let's not get carried away....
Show me any Amaterasu/Enton attack killing people.
OT:
1) YOU'RE not paying any attention. One clone of Naruto defeated the third raikage and helped defeat Muu. Also, Naruto doesn't need to make a huge amount of them. A few SM, KCM, or BM clones are enough.
2) Obito is a special case because of his Kamui. He can slip through anything for 5 continous minutes. He can activate it and deactivate it accordingly. As soon as he lost that advantage, he took many hits.
3) Susano'o arrow countering TBB? Did you see what 3 little chakra rods did to it?
4) Enton/Amaterasu is countered by speed and chakra cloak. Sasuke was barely able to keep track of the Raikage's movements and went defensive because of that. He won't be able to track Naruto's movements, especially if there are at least a dozen clones moving that fast.
Uh, it's just chakra, why do I need scans. It's like a rasengan or chidori. He's merely controlling the chakra outside his body...
Susanoo doesn't tank that attack. Even if he isn't knocked down, he will still feel the blow. It's just like you stated with kirin, Itachi tanked it, but he still was damaged. Susanoo doesn't block every bit of the attack, which is an extremely common misconception.
Can you show me an instance where a V3 Susano'o didn't? Itachi only had time to throw up a V1, maybe V2 to block Kirin, and there is no way Naruto's chakra arms can deal enough damage to harm a V3 Susano'o.
Can you seriously show me any scan that shows chakra arms dealing enough damage to harm a V3 Susano'o?
You're avoiding the comment....you're acting as if this is supposed to be ridiculous which it ain't. You can't just start saying that something beats another unless you actually provide proof/evidence......the chakra arms have not been shown to be dispersed by Susano'o therefore this "Susano'o tanks chakra arms zero difficulty" crap is false and backed up by nothing...unless you can provide evidence from the manga defending this I stand corrected.
I can agree that Sasuke is very close if not equal with Naruto right now, but let's not get carried away....
Well, honestly, I find it difficult to believe chakra arms can just be dispersed. They are a part of Naruto's cloak, if he loses the arms he has to lose the cloak as well.
V3 Susano'o (most likely a V1 or V2, actually) was able to tank Kirin, an attack that deals much more damage than you can show me with any chakra arm feats.
Can you show me an instance where a V3 Susano'o didn't? Itachi only had time to throw up a V1, maybe V2 to block Kirin, and there is no way Naruto's chakra arms can deal enough damage to harm a V3 Susano'o.
Can you seriously show me any scan that shows chakra arms dealing enough damage to harm a V3 Susano'o?
Well, honestly, I find it difficult to believe chakra arms can just be dispersed. They are a part of Naruto's cloak, if he loses the arms he has to lose the cloak as well.
V3 Susano'o (most likely a V1 or V2, actually) was able to tank Kirin, an attack that deals much more damage than you can show me with any chakra arm feats.
As u can see in that scan, Sasuke is being effected by the vacuum technique. On the next scan, Danzo proceeds to slash him with a fuuton technique, which in turn, actually breaks the back of susanoo. That little slash did that to susanoo... Now imagine what a chakra cloak that is able to render physical attacks useless can do to it... I rest my case...
As u can see in that scan, Sasuke is being effected by the vacuum technique. On the next scan, Danzo proceeds to slash him with a fuuton technique, which in turn, actually breaks the back of susanoo. That little slash did that to susanoo... Now imagine what a chakra cloak that is able to render physical attacks useless can do to it... I rest my case...
Sasuke is only being affected by the vaccum technique because Susano'o itself is being sucked in. He's just moving with it.
Danzo is probably the best Fuuton user in the manga, and Fuuton is known for its slicing power. Of course he was going to slice through Susano'o with possibly the most powerful cutting technique in the manga.
On the other hand, Naruto's chakra arms have displayed zero feats to suggest they can harm a V3 Susano'o.
By the way, that was a V2 Susano'o in that scan, not a V3.
Show me any Amaterasu/Enton attack killing people.
OT:
1) YOU'RE not paying any attention. One clone of Naruto defeated the third raikage and helped defeat Muu. Also, Naruto doesn't need to make a huge amount of them. A few SM, KCM, or BM clones are enough.
2) Obito is a special case because of his Kamui. He can slip through anything for 5 continous minutes. He can activate it and deactivate it accordingly. As soon as he lost that advantage, he took many hits.
3) Susano'o arrow countering TBB? Did you see what 3 little chakra rods did to it?
4) Enton/Amaterasu is countered by speed and chakra cloak. Sasuke was barely able to keep track of the Raikage's movements and went defensive because of that. He won't be able to track Naruto's movements, especially if there are at least a dozen clones moving that fast.
Sasuke is only being affected by the vaccum technique because Susano'o itself is being sucked in. He's just moving with it.
Danzo is probably the best Fuuton user in the manga, and Fuuton is known for its slicing power. Of course he was going to slice through Susano'o with possibly the most powerful cutting technique in the manga.
On the other hand, Naruto's chakra arms have displayed zero feats to suggest they can harm a V3 Susano'o.
By the way, that was a V2 Susano'o in that scan, not a V3.
It's still a fuuton technique... Are you stating that Danzo's fuuton natured chakra > Kurama's chakra... Interesting...
Though, that was a v3. Itachi likely used v2 to block kirin. Totsuka and Yata mirror are activated in v3, which is why Sasuke gets his crossbow in v3.
v1 - Ribcage
v2 - muscles and bones(No weapons)
v3 - Weapons, incomplete susanoo
v4 - Complete susanoo
v4.5 - Complete susanoo EMS upgrade.
Odd you should use that pick considering Danzo survived that.
Edit: Actually the only thing Amaterasu or Enton has ever killed so far is a bunch of Zetsu fodder. Every other person Sasuke has hit with it has survived.
1st argument - Naruto's clones could on their own Take on the - 3rd Raikage , Madara's wood forest , the whole battlefield of Zetsu clones - there is no that even with divided chakra - they will not be enough
2nd Argument -Comparing obito to Sasuke - Bullcrap
First off - Sasuke could indeed read Raikage's speed with even MS , but could not ract to it In time
Obito could cope with it as he has- Senju Dna ( Improving him physically) and Kamui - Which just lets him pass though any attack
Sasuke has no such feat
3rd Argument
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It took Naruto half a Page to make a Bijuu Bomb Equal in power to 7 Bijuus Forming a tbb at the same time
Can you show me an instance where a V3 Susano'o didn't? Itachi only had time to throw up a V1, maybe V2 to block Kirin, and there is no way Naruto's chakra arms can deal enough damage to harm a V3 Susano'o.
Can you seriously show me any scan that shows chakra arms dealing enough damage to harm a V3 Susano'o?
Well, honestly, I find it difficult to believe chakra arms can just be dispersed. They are a part of Naruto's cloak, if he loses the arms he has to lose the cloak as well.
V3 Susano'o (most likely a V1 or V2, actually) was able to tank Kirin, an attack that deals much more damage than you can show me with any chakra arm feats.
Note that the Susano'o Itachi used to counter Kirin didn't necessarily "tank it," Itachi was left pretty worn out after countering it and was a contributing factor in getting his illness to come up in it's worst form after he used Susano'o to block Kirin and confine Orochimaru(he was literally puking blood and had severe chest pain, heart attack maybe?), as the more you over exert yourself the more damage, pain, etc. you cause to your body. Now I'm not suggesting chakra arms are as powerful as Susano'o, but still...
And I don't need to give feats of the chakra arms, because I wasn't even debating how useful they were in the first place, I was just telling you that there's no proof they can be so easily dispersed by Susano'o, which is what you claim.
1st argument - Naruto's clones could on their own Take on the - 3rd Raikage , Madara's wood forest , the whole battlefield of Zetsu clones - there is no that even with divided chakra - they will not be enough
2nd Argument -Comparing obito to Sasuke - Bullcrap
First off - Sasuke could indeed read Raikage's speed with even MS , but could not ract to it In time
Obito could cope with it as he has- Senju Dna ( Improving him physically) and Kamui - Which just lets him pass though any attack
Sasuke has no such feat
3rd Argument
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It took Naruto half a Page to make a Bijuu Bomb Equal in power to 7 Bijuus Forming a tbb at the same time
1st argument - Naruto's clones could on their own Take on the - 3rd Raikage , Madara's wood forest , the whole battlefield of Zetsu clones - there is no that even with divided chakra - they will not be enough
2nd Argument -Comparing obito to Sasuke - Bullcrap
First off - Sasuke could indeed read Raikage's speed with even MS , but could not ract to it In time
Obito could cope with it as he has- Senju Dna ( Improving him physically) and Kamui - Which just lets him pass though any attack
Sasuke has no such feat
3rd Argument
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It took Naruto half a Page to make a Bijuu Bomb Equal in power to 7 Bijuus Forming a tbb at the same time
They asked for a page of Amaterasu killing, I provided it.
If Raikage was hit directly by Amaterasu he would've died. Not even debatable. Obito got around it with Izanagi. Doesn't change the fact that he's killed 20+ Zetsu's with it.
It's still a fuuton technique... Are you stating that Danzo's fuuton natured chakra > Kurama's chakra... Interesting...
Though, that was a v3. Itachi likely used v2 to block kirin. Totsuka and Yata mirror are activated in v3, which is why Sasuke gets his crossbow in v3.
v1 - Ribcage
v2 - muscles and bones(No weapons)
v3 - Weapons, incomplete susanoo
v4 - Complete susanoo
v4.5 - Complete susanoo EMS upgrade.
They asked for a page of Amaterasu killing, I provided it.
If Raikage was hit directly by Amaterasu he would've died. Not even debatable. Obito got around it with Izanagi. Doesn't change the fact that he's killed 20+ Zetsu's with it.
But back to the original topic of this particular arguement which is that despite TBB never shown killing anyone, doesn't mean it can't turn someone to a pile of ashes.
I'm sick of hearing of much greater Naruto is than Sasuke. Naruto is greater than Sasuke currently, but not by the huge margin most people think.
Sasuke has a multitude of methods and counters to Naruto.
The biggest, and most incorrect, argument I hear for Naruto is the "Naruto makes 5 BM clones GG Sasuke" argument. While clones certainly provide a few different directions of attack, this has time and again been shown to be inefficient. In fact, most times Naruto divides his chakra amongst huge multitudes of clones, they get fodderized quickly.
Naruto is only able to deal real, effective attacks when he has not made a multitude of clones. If you paid any attention, you would know the KCM clones really didn't deal any damage that required huge drainage of chakra.
So, if Naruto decides to form a few dozen clones as usual, they will get beaten accordingly.
Another argument I hear is that Naruto's speed is much too fast for Sasuke. This is also false.
Sasuke has two advanced versions of the Sharingan, the EMS.
Obito, who only is in possesion of a single MS (not even EMS) has been able to keep up with BM Naruto's movements and fight him accordingly. Sasuke, who has even more enhanced versions of the Sharingan (and two of them as opposed to one) should have an even easier time following Naruto.
A counter I've heard for this is that Naruto wasn't using his full speed when fighting Obito because he wasn't skilled with it, so the MS/EMS argument doesn't work. What they don't realize is, they are contradicting themselves.
If Naruto wasn't using his extreme speed against Obito, who's to say he'd use it against Sasuke? Does fighting Sasuke magically give him perfect control over his speed? Obviously not.
The third argument I hear is that Naruto just posses too much raw power to contend with Sasuke. But is this even true?
Sure, I won't deny Naruto's TBB is the second most powerful we've seen, and at most Sasuke could tank maybe one. But there's something people overlook:
Sasuke is one of the most analytical characters in the Manga. He can pick up on a technique after seeing it briefly. As we know, full powered TBB's take a while to form. We also know that the balance of chakra in each TBB has to be absolutely perfect, or else it won't work. Before Naruto even fires a TBB, who's to say Sasuke couldn't counter with an Ama Arrow? It would certainly throw the balance of chakra off, and actually blow up on Naruto. Sasuke's Ama Arrows have displayed speed enough to not only counter TBB's, but to intercept and destroy incoming ones.
Let's also not forget Sasuke's advantages against Naruto. Sasuke's Enton and Ama are a one-shot jutsu. Unless Naruto can shed parts of himself off, getting hit by an Enton or Ama means a loss.
Ama Arrow is actually the perfect technique for Sasuke and his Sharingan as well. With the sharingan's ability to predict movement, Sasuke can effectively fire Ama Arrows to where Naruto will head next and intercept him. Not to mention that Sasuke could Amateratsu the entire area around them, and prevent Naruto from zipping around hap-hazardly. Susano'o will effectively protect Sasuke from any taijutsu, and Enton Control Sword will solo Naruto's Bijuu Form if he goes into it.
And this was just my warm up thread. I'll be making another one later that will provide scans and additional information, as well as counters to any arguments.
Don't get me wrong, Naruto is still a greater threat than Sasuke, but the margin isn't as large as most think.
1. That's actually not true. Shadow clones divide chakra reserves/stamina, not striking ability. Naruto's strongest attacks have been from using large amounts of shadow clones. Examples.....
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If we go by this logic, KCM Naruto's at least 13 times stronger than the version that fought Nagato and Itachi. That's would mean he's insanely OP without clones. However, there seemed to be no change in ability when he fought the jinchuriki. The reason clones are generally fodder are either a. plot or b. They have virtually no durability. It's also suggested that clones interfere with each other's focus.
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What Kakashi meant was that against an enemy like the juubi, who could effortlessly tank any of his attacks, shadow clones wouldn't help. After all, 0X100 is still 0.
2. It was never stated that MS or EMS gives better eyesight or prediction abilities. The only thing that suggests that is this.
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He may have been keeping EMS active to prepare for Kabuto, but regardless, it was never stated or hinted that he could predict better. Even if he could predict, Sasuke's body wouldn't be able to react quickly enough to Naruto's speed. After all, he couldn't even turn his head when A went full speed. However, your later point about this makes sense. However, BM undoubtedly boosts Naruto. If Naruto were put into the position where speed's the only answer, he'd use full speed.
3. One of the larger TBBs aren't necessary to destroy susanoo. It took Madara to make the size of his final susanoo equal to Kurama's just to block a small TBB with his swords (note, it's tiny compared to his mouth), but it blew up anyway, and when the smoke cleared, it was PS on top of Kurama.
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Kurama may have had yin chakra, but jinchuriki enhance the energies of bijus by making them more focused if what happens to Juubito happens to all. The difference between Naruto's equivalent of that TBB and his own is probably no more than twice. However, Madara's final susanoo was approximately 20 times the size of Sasuke's. He's not even tanking Naruto's smalls. As for later point, good one. However, clones as distractions could counter this.
4. First off, Naruto can use tails to block. They'll burn instead, and he can then destroy them. Chakra arms does wonders for Naruto's reach. Also, with BM Naruto's speed, focusing on making flame walls across the battlefield is the worst mistake Sasuke could make. Naruto's be on him in an instant.
BM Naruto clones could be used as distractions to catch Sasuke off guard and allow for a quick sneak attack. KCM Naruto=EMS Sasuke BM Naruto>>>>KCM Naruto/EMS Sasuke.
