Borrowed Power Thread!

[The Necromancer]

Life is kinda like a card game. It's no use complaining about the hand your opponent was dealt. The important thing is to master what cards you have to deal with, that's the only thing that can make you win.

So you believe in steroid use in professional sports then.

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No, it is not valid.

Give Udon Edo Tensei and he can defeat EMS Madara. Seems legit, right?

That scan proves exactly what I'm talking about.

 

[riley freeman]

No borrowed power is power you give back at the end, what you listed were given power not borrowed

 

[Joker]

So you believe in steroid use in professional sports then.



Give Udon Edo Tensei and he can defeat EMS Madara. Seems legit, right?

Nope, one, he wouldn't have strong enough chakra to maintain the Edo-Tensei, much less make them listen to him since he can't assert and bind them like the others.

 

[Xlad]

You borrowed the quote in your sig from ad0. The quote is not yours yet you possessed it.

Nah, I'm joking. Lol

 

[The Necromancer]

Nope, one, he wouldn't have strong enough chakra to maintain the Edo-Tensei, much less make them listen to him since he can't assert and bind them like the others.

Fair enough. A better example would be Orochimaru defeating current Naruto. He's nowhere near powerful enough himself, so he needs the help of dozens of other shinobi to cover how pitiful he is.

 

[HiddenSound]

So you believe in steroid use in professional sports then.



Give Udon Edo Tensei and he can defeat EMS Madara. Seems legit, right?

That scan proves exactly what I'm talking about.

Steroids used in a fair game is wrong. Good thing ninja fights aren't fair :|

And yes, give anyone Edo Tensei and if they can control it, they become leagues more powerful. The Naruto series isn't one big vs thread.

 

[Joker]

Fair enough. A better example would be Orochimaru defeating current Naruto. He's nowhere near powerful enough himself, so he needs the help of dozens of other shinobi to cover how pitiful he is.

Hey, he learned the technique, he dragged their souls back into the impure realm, and they became apart of his arsenal. I bet you don't object when someone uses a summoning technique? Same principal but a little bit more complex and extreme. Also, this situation is kind of contradictory considering Naruto's current status would fall on the line of, "borrowed power" too, now wouldn't it?

 

[The Necromancer]

Steroids used in a fair game is wrong. Good thing ninja fights aren't fair :|

And yes, give anyone Edo Tensei and if they can control it, they become leagues more powerful. The Naruto series isn't one big vs thread.

I don't consider professional sport "life".
I see your point but think of it this way; you are fighting in a war, you've got 20 men on your side, they have 50. Also they manage to pilfer half your ammunition. Do you call them out as cheaters? Or use what you can? It's a poor analogy, but in life or death situations like ninjas, borrowed power is kinda silly.

But vs. threads are treated with the same stipulations as a professional, fair fight. Who cares if Orochimaru is better than Itachi when he needs 12 undead shinobi to assist him? That doesn't assess Orochimaru's strength, that assess Orochimaru's and 12 other shinobi's strength combined.

Hey, he learned the technique, he dragged their souls back into the impure realm, and they became apart of his arsenal. I bet you don't object when someone uses a summoning technique? Same principal but a little bit more complex and extreme. Also, this situation is kind of contradictory considering Naruto's current status would fall on the line of, "borrowed power" too, now wouldn't it?

I do complain with the summoning jutsu. And Naruto's current status is borrowed. What's your point?

Is gennin Naruto better than Sasuke, or is Gamabunta?

To you, if Pain summoned Konan and walked away, and she killed Tenten, then Pain killed Tenten. Do you see where that logic is flawed?

 

[BlazeRelease]

So you believe in steroid use in professional sports then.



Give Udon Edo Tensei and he can defeat EMS Madara. Seems legit, right?

That scan proves exactly what I'm talking about.

I don't consider professional sport "life".
I see your point but think of it this way; you are fighting in a war, you've got 20 men on your side, they have 50. Also they manage to pilfer half your ammunition. Do you call them out as cheaters? Or use what you can? It's a poor analogy, but in life or death situations like ninjas, borrowed power is kinda silly.

 

[Wavyhair]

This borrowed power crap is just another way to downplay characters.

 

[Joker]

But vs. threads are treated with the same stipulations as a professional, fair fight. Who cares if Orochimaru is better than Itachi when he needs 12 undead shinobi to assist him? That doesn't assess Orochimaru's strength, that assess Orochimaru's and 12 other shinobi's strength combined.



I do complain with the summoning jutsu. And Naruto's current status is borrowed. What's your point?

Is gennin Naruto better than Sasuke, or is Gamabunta?

To you, if Pain summoned Konan, and she killed Tenten, then Pain killed Tenten. Do you see where that logic is flawed?

You do? Then there's something wrong. I think you're looking at the whole situation from a flawed perspective, because obviously Kishimoto doesn't look at it the same way you do. My point was, wouldn't it be better to put up your hypothetical situation where Orochimaru faces someone without the borrowed power status...? If gennin Naruto has access to Gamabunta, then his arsenal is greater, point blank.

Moving on to your last statement, the rule doesn't apply. Orochimaru's chakra LITERALLY runs through his summonings, Pain's does not. U

 

[HiddenSound]

But vs. threads are treated with the same stipulations as a professional, fair fight. Who cares if Orochimaru is better than Itachi when he needs 12 undead shinobi to assist him? That doesn't assess Orochimaru's strength, that assess Orochimaru's and 12 other shinobi's strength combined.



I do complain with the summoning jutsu. And Naruto's current status is borrowed. What's your point?

Is gennin Naruto better than Sasuke, or is Gamabunta?

To you, if Pain summoned Konan, and she killed Tenten, then Pain killed Tenten. Do you see where that logic is flawed?

I wasn't complaining about vs threads. If someone restricts Edo Tensei in vs thread that's A-ok. I'm talking about people complaining that "borrowed power" is unfair because the power isn't theirs, when that right there truly does not matter.

 

[V h o]

Give a 5 year old a big enough handicap, and he or she could beat Tiger Woods in golf. That's the basis of the borrowed power argument. It is valid, whether you think so or not.

The validity of the argument is silly at its core. Just take your said example, do people even consider your hypothetical as something to authenticate a victory or lose? Regardless of wherever the power came from it is their's. This whole foolish argument is like complaining rather or not the user should use what is available to them, based solely on the fact the other person doesn't have the resources.

 

[The Necromancer]

You do? Then there's something wrong. I think you're looking at the whole situation from a flawed perspective, because obviously Kishimoto doesn't look at it the same way you do. My point was, wouldn't it be better to put up your hypothetical situation where Orochimaru faces someone without the borrowed power status...? If gennin Naruto has access to Gamabunta, then his arsenal is greater, point blank.

Moving on to your last statement, the rule doesn't apply. Orochimaru's chakra LITERALLY runs through his summonings, Pain's does not. U

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Naruto himself could not kill Sasuke, but with Gamabunta he does so effortlessly. That does not mean Naruto is stronger than Sasuke, it means Gamabunta is stronger than Sasuke. Period. Such an ability is not fair and should not be considered in vs. threads where assessing a character's prowess.

The validity of the argument is silly at its core. Just take your said example, do people even consider your hypothetical as something to authenticate a victory or lose? Regardless of wherever the power came from it is their's. This whole foolish argument is like complaining rather or not the user should use what is available to them, based solely on the fact the other person doesn't have the resources.

Then I'm better than Tiger Woods, because I get a -100 stroke handicap. Good to know.

 

[BlazeRelease]

Well it depends, are we discussing a vs fight or an assessment of skill compared to other characters? For instance; tobi (war mask) is stronger compared to dragon sage kabuto, but if you do a vs fight, kabuto could win because edo tensei IS his technique.

 

[Retsu]

This borrowed power crap is just another way to downplay characters.

This here, the only time you usually hear this argument come into play is when some butt hurt die hard fanatic is comparing their fave to Naruto. It's a pointless straw man argument and brings nothing to the table other than the admission of hurt feelings.

 

[Joker]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Naruto himself could not kill Sasuke, but with Gamabunta he does so effortlessly. That does not mean Naruto is stronger than Sasuke, it means Gamabunta is stronger than Sasuke. Period. Such an ability is not fair and should not be considered in vs. threads where assessing a character's prowess.



Then I'm better than Tiger Woods, because I get a -100 stroke handicap. Good to know.

Alright, and you should really stop trying to apply this to real situations, it doesn't work the same.

 

[The Necromancer]

Alright, and you should really stop trying to apply this to real situations, it doesn't work the same.

I'm not applying it to real situations. I'm applying it to hypothetical, vs. scenarios, as if comparing current LeBron James to prime Michael Jordan.

In what world is this a real situation? :|

 

[Joker]

I'm not applying it to real situations. I'm applying it to hypothetical, vs. scenarios.

Then what's this Tiger Woods thing you're going on about? It's hypothetical, I get it, but you're applying it to real life.

 

[The Necromancer]

Then what's this Tiger Woods thing you're going on about? It's hypothetical, I get it, but you're applying it to real life.

It's called a metaphorical comparison.

There's no difference between saying Naruto > Sasuke or saying Jordan > James.