Where did i say they weren't the real passages you idiot. Get of your high horse acting like you know everything about Islam. I said you INTERPRET it wrong just like Isis i.e. you're the more like them then any other muslim
No, no and no. ISIS interprets it literally. That was the whole point. You can knee jerk with semantics and excuses all you want, but the fact is that Koran is based on violent, intolerant and oppressive passages.
lmao if that is what is not written on Koran then please provide the real passages for those exact parts or gtfo
The first part isn't true, but the latter three are. And so what? They are retarded for doing so. Difference is christianity is not a law religion and it has gone through reformation unlike Islam.
Don't kid yourself. If those verses are said like that in your book, then the context is irrelevant. The issue was that ISIS is interpretating Koran as a way it is written. Refute that claim or gtfo.
Incidents like these bring the xenophobes out of the woodworks. Europe is creating the cycle of hate itself. This is what happens when you start an arms race and spread conflict and unrest, leaving millions dead to elevate your economy. Such things always find their way back home, and people not responsible, end up suffering.
P.s: Oh look, Hawker is back to promoting his nauseating Eurocentrism with his head too far up his behind to see the reality of the Extremism and the hideously ugly, true face of this civilized Man behind the mask of “democratic peace;” Pinker’s true philosophy for world’s progress. Am I right, man?
Crusades happened almost 1000 years ago and stopped after that but from Islamic aggression is still here after 1500 years. That is the difference I'm not saying Mohammed death etc wasn't in the past but I do say that Islam is still killing everywhere it can. Where are the Christians beheading Muslims? Where are the Christians calling some sort jihad on all Muslim countries.
The only reason ex-Soviet states aren't as strict with religion is cause Stalin and Russia freed them of it and banned Islam. And that is actually not even true about all countries there since the Caucasian regions Dagestan and Chechnya have one of the most brutal and aggressive Muslims there are luckily Russia kicked there ass and they can't do shit but that is not really true what you're saying. Ex Soviet states have alot of mongol/Turkic people which are really extreme with Islam but there are also many more types of Islam although most of it wants to kill.
How doesn't it make sense if Islam spreads by killing and rape especially towards Christian countries doesn't make them evil? Are you implying it was a good thing they did? Cause you kinda are - 1
My solution against Islamic terrorism is keeping Islam down like Russia and other nations in eastern-Europe have done already. Every extremist religion should be banned from our western society. You can be Muslim but go to your Muslim countries we don't want you. If we banned all Muslims and send every potential terrorist back while having a good border what happened today in Belgium wouldn't have happened.
Also you haven't countered any argument but we're saying silly stuff like I'm using only the Arabic parts but what about Pakistan and Afghanistan where alot of terrorist muslims come from.
Same for libya, Algeria etc. Everywhere where Islam is a majority countries seem to go in war and kill each other unless they are gulf states which sponsor the wars in other countries.
Right ... let's forget about the deliberate hanging and mass killings of the knights at the Curch's hands that cleaned up the whole deal. You might want to brush up on that history, as it's all over the place. Or let's also forget the fact that America's war on terror was started on the term "Crusade."
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And these are just for Christians. There have been mass slaughters of Muslims elsewhere as well:
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China’s leading News Agency Xinhua has reportedly unmarked graves in Poonch, in the Indian occupied Kashmir.
Let us observe some political niceties of Indian troops:
Latest PDF Report on the provision of rights in J&K, along with victims accounts and legal difficulties and political propaganda of Indian government to brush such crimes under the rug:
Title: Failures in accountability for
human rights violations by
security force personnel in
Jammu and Kashmir
(It can be easily downloaded by typing the exact title on google search engine.)
There is currently no independent police complaints mechanism in Jammu and Kashmir, which goes against directives issued by a 2006 Supreme Court judgment on police reform.184 In 2012, the Jammu and Kashmir government drafted a Bill to establish Police Complaints Authorities at the state and district level. The Bill has not yet been presented before the state legislative assembly by the Home Department and also suffers from serious flaws.
Families of victims, lawyers and activists in Jammu and Kashmir told Amnesty International India that it is often
difficult to register and pursue cases against security forces because of threats, intimidation and harassment. An “incentive” often invoked by police and security forces to pressure families to withdraw cases is financial compensation, given without accepting any liability.
In some cases, families interviewed said that the police had threatened to withhold compensation until the families agreed to withdraw their complaint against the security forces. In other cases, families admitted, they had themselves refused to accept compensation for fear that the authorities would view the gesture as an acceptable remedy, and deem the investigation and prosecution of the alleged perpetrators unnecessary.
During 1992 alone, 882 women were reportedly gang raped by Indian security forces in Jammu and Kashmir. Militant groups in Kashmir have also been accused of using rape as an instrument of armed struggle.
Macabre descriptions, taken not from some archives of a medieval torture chamber, but from Channel Four’s film – Kashmir: the Torture Trail – that was aired last month. Directed by BAFTA award winner Jezza Neumann and produced by Brian Woods, the film follows Kashmir’s noted human rights lawyer Parvez Imroz, who is documenting torture testimonials of victims at the hands of Indian security forces and police, for the first comprehensive report on use of torture as a repressive weapon in Kashmir.
Recording statements and providing graphic visual images of victims ranging from Firoze, detained under PSA with a head wound, to a girl who was raped by troops, to the shepherd Kalendu Khatana, whose feet were cut off by the Border Security Forces, the film buttresses its point of institutionalised torture, by verification from the government’s own human rights organisation or statements by Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International or the United Nations.
Parvez Imroz, who has been actively involved with the Association of Parents of Disappeared Persons, and who worked along with the International People’s Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in Indian-administered Kashmir on Buried Evidence – the extensive report on unidentified and mass graves, has been speaking out against torture. In the film he declares, “Some people must stand up and say ‘No this is not acceptable. We will campaign against it.”
It was the publication of the WikiLeaks cable last year that brought to light concerns by the international community over the extensive use of torture in India. The dispatches reveal that US diplomats in Delhi were briefed in 2005 by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), which said that out of the 1296 detainees it visited in Kashmir, 681 said they were tortured.
In another leaked document dated April 6, 2005, an American diplomat describes being briefed by the ICRC on the routine use of torture to interrogate Kashmiri detainees. Close to 1,500 prisoners were interviewed by the organization during 177 visits to various detention centers between 2002 and 2004, according to the cable. The ICRC said they were subjected to beatings, electrocution, and other abuses. “The ICRC is forced to conclude that [the government of India] condones torture,” the cable said.
Imroz had spent much of his career facing down security forces protected by specially drafted laws. Under the Armed Forces Special Powers Act, soldiers and paramilitaries enjoy total immunity from prosecution, unless the ministry of defence sanction their trial. Using new Right to Information (RTI) laws, Imroz obtained confirmation that despite the fact that hundreds of soldiers stood accused of murder, rape and torture, not a single case had proceeded. In contrast, Kashmiri citizens are dealt with using the Jammu & Kashmir Public Safety Act, under which they can be jailed, preventively, for two years, if deemed likely to commit subversive acts in the future, with an estimated 20,000 detained, according to Human Rights Watch.
While surveying disappearance cases in villages across two of Kashmir's 23 districts, including Baramulla, from where the three Nadihal men would vanish in 2010, villagers showed him a hitherto unknown network of unmarked and mass graves: muddy pits and mossy mounds, pock-marking pine forests and orchards. According to eyewitnesses, all had been dug under the gaze of the Indian security forces and all contained the bodies of local men. Some were fresh, others decayed, hinting at a covert slaughter that went back many years.
Imroz widened his search, mapping almost 1,000 locations. He was shocked by the implications. Indian law requires that the police probe every violent death and that corpses be identified. But in the village of Bimyar, white-haired Atta Muhammad Khan came forward to describe how he had been forced to inter 203 unidentified bodies under cover of the night – men whose identities and crimes were unstated. "Some corpses were disfigured. Others were burnt. We did not ask questions." It was a similar story in Kichama village, where the lawyer mapped 235 unmarked graves and in Bijhama, where 200 more unidentified corpses had been interred. In Srinagar, Imroz's team alerted the government's State Human Rights Commission (SHRC). "We suspected the missing of Kashmir were buried at these secret sites," he said, publishing a report, Facts Under Ground.
Inside them were 2,943 bodies; 80% of them unidentified. "These were hellish images from a war that no one has ever reported," said Imroz. "We suspected this to be prima-facie evidence of war crimes," he added. "Who are the dead, how did they die, in whose hands and who interred them?"
This has been confirmed by several others. I will highlight two of them:
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Nearly 50,000 people have been killed in mainly Muslim Kashmir since a revolt against New Delhi's rule began in 1989.
The report, which comes after a three-year inquiry by an 11-member team, is the first official acknowledgement that civilians killed in the two-decade conflict may have been buried in unmarked graves.
In 2008, a rights group reported unmarked graves in 55 villages across the northern regions of Baramulla, Bandipore and Handwara, after which researchers and other groups reported finding thousands of single and mass graves without markers.
Indian officials set up the commission to investigate and also began a separate police investigation, the findings of which have yet to be released.
The graves were found in dozens of villages near the Line of Control, the military line dividing Kashmir between India and Pakistan.
"At 38 places visited in north Kashmir, there were 2,156 unidentified dead bodies buried in unmarked graves," the inquiry report by the Indian government's Jammu and Kashmir State Human Rights Commission (J&KSHRC) said.
The report, released on Saturday, comes after a three-year inquiry by an 11-member team led by a senior police official.
Nearly 50,000 people have been killed in mainly Muslim Kashmir since a revolt against New Delhi's rule began in 1989. On Saturday, Indian soldier shot dead 12 separatist militants trying to cross from Pakistan into the disputed region.
Indian security forces in Kashmir have been accused of murdering innocent civilians in staged gun battles and passing them off as separatist militants to earn rewards and promotions.
Recently, China’s leading News Agency Xinhua has unearthed more gruesome details on world-stunning unmarked graves in Poonch area of the Indian occupied Kashmir. It pointed out the statement of Sofi Aziz Joo, caretaker of a graveyard as saying, “Police and Army used to bring those bodies and directed me to bury them. The bodies were usually bullet-ridden, mutilated, faces disfigured and sometimes without limbs and heads.”
While Association of Parents of Disappeared Persons (APDP) and rights groups have stated that more than 10,000 people have disappeared, accusing government forces of staging fake gun battles to cover up killings, they also revealed that suspected persons had been arrested and were murdered through arbitrary executions, and then buried in unmarked graves.
Yeah, clearly this doesn't fit into the mold of ethnic cleansing at all. I was out of my mind when I so 'lightly and off-handedly' use the term, when I have yet to even remotely touch upon those people who ran from J&K, forcefully evicted from their homes by the morally up-right Indian troops. There are hundreds of reports on this issue, if only you take off your Indian blinders and look at the facts. Bu they seem to be glued on pretty firmly.
Try to accept the atrocities done at the hands of your own country, and move on. I won't be taking apart in this pointless discussion, but your pro-Indian mentality is clearly all over the place. Don't try to shuffle it off, if called out on it. Before you bring Pakistan into this, then I am well aware of their despicable and heinous war crimes against innocent people in now what is named Bangladesh. I am not that intentionally ignorant or woefully presumptuous.
Chechnya ... Russia ... what the ****, man?
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Let us look at more western peace initiatives in other regions:
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Oh look, the peaceful humanity making billions by shipping weapons to fuel more blood shed and keep the flames of war burning:
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Your Eurocentrism and western exceptionalism is ****ing despicable. Russia deliberately used its VETO rights to thwart the recognition of these crimes as genocides and ethnic cleanings. Few people die in Europe and all hell breaks loose. Millions upon millions are systematically slaughtered by these regimes and no one bats an eye. You people will never garner any sympathy with such a disgusting attitude and lopsided, hypocritical humanity.
How many has west killed in the name of its disgusting political policies in the last ten years alone? It has killed millions, and count continues to rise because of the conflict it has deliberately created to horde the natural resources. If you know basic mathematics or even stats, then this number you are accusing of presenting a “barbaric” picture of a group of individuals is literally worthless ... and ALL this, when I haven't even touched the atrocities committed by the British and American troops in these war torn regions. Should I get the links for those? I can, if you say please.
This gauge clearly shows that western, European and white supremacists are infinitely more barbaric, heinous and uncultured that you would have believe yourself. Take off those blinders … for the love of god, this thread …
I also love the fact how you have restricted extremism to religion, when western politics are their own brand of heinous extremism that knows no equal. But alas, a common man isn’t bright enough to connect the dots here or isn’t bright enough to let go of the garb of exceptionalism and jingoistic adoration. I feel like spiting at the corner of my room; this thread is that disgusting.
No, no and no. ISIS interprets it literally. That was the whole point. You can knee jerk with semantics and excuses all you want, but the fact is that Koran is based on violent, intolerant and oppressive passages.
Where did you prove that muslims are standing with Belgium? And who knows, maybe some of them are, but in these cases it has been proven from time and time again that ALOT of muslims symphatize with the suicide bombers:
NOP Research: 1 in 4 British Muslims say 7/7 bombings were justified
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ICM Poll: 20% of British Muslims sympathize with 7/7 bombers
1. It seems that the police found a Kalaschnikow and an unused suicide vest at the airport building.
2. Belgium's security forces seem to have evacuated the atomic power plant "Tihange", about 90km away from Brussels after they executed a search warrant in some suspicious houses and found some indications there.
3. Now they are talking about at least 34 dead people. 14 at the airport and 20 in the Metro. More than 80 people are said to be injured.
Say the name then. If someone keeps pushing your buttons you're going to retaliate, and that's exactly what Mehmat Fatih the conqueror did. He got rid of his enemies.
Why do you people knitpick verses show me where in the quran does it support rape seriously saying that islam supports rape goes against everything the quran stands for. Adultery is punished by stoning.
Humans rape what's so difficult about comprehending this. And if anything it's more of a cultural thing and it has nothing to do with the religion stop relating them to each other.
Why do you people knitpick verses show me where in the quran does it support rape seriously saying that islam supports rape goes against everything the quran stands for. Adultery is punished by stoning.
"AN ISLAMIC professor has allegedly claimed Muslim men are allowed by Allah to rape non-Muslim women in order to “humiliate” them."
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New research from U.N. Women finds that 99.3 percent of women have suffered sexual harassment in Egypt.
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Add to that rape inside marriage is not criminalized in many islamic states and there are Koran verses that encourage to have *** with women whenever the man wants.
I know you are going to say that that is not a real scholar or something like that, but there you have it, a statement from islamic scholar.
Humans rape what's so difficult about comprehending this. And if anything it's more of a cultural thing and it has nothing to do with the religion stop relating them to each other.
Koran is your Islam's holy book. The laws of Islamic countries are based on Koran. Thus your culture and religion are basically the same thing. So yes that is why we are talking about them.
"Human's rape" yeah, but some of us do it more than the others. Please stop with this childish, mind numbing over simplification of things.
"AN ISLAMIC professor has allegedly claimed Muslim men are allowed by Allah to rape non-Muslim women in order to “humiliate” them."
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New research from U.N. Women finds that 99.3 percent of women have suffered sexual harassment in Egypt.
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Add to that rape inside marriage is not criminalized in many islamic states and there are Koran verses that encourage to have *** with women whenever the man wants.
I know you are going to say that that is not a real scholar or something like that, but there you have it, a statement from islamic scholar.
Sexual harrasment isn't rape!!! it's cat calling holy molly the fact that you can't differentiate between culture and religion is absolutely hilarious.
Just leave it Hawker. Please.
They won't understand. They can see the twistable statements with their own eyes and don't understand where the problem is. They just cherry-pick what they want to believe in and claim it to be the "true meaning", while ISIS and other extremists do the exact same thing. You are arguing with walls. :/
Koran is your Islam's holy book. The laws of Islamic countries are based on Koran. Thus your culture and religion are basically the same thing. So yes that is why we are talking about them.
"Human's rape" yeah, but some of us do it more than the others. Please stop with this childish, mind numbing over simplification of things.
Koran is your Islam's holy book. The laws of Islamic countries are based on Koran. Thus your culture and religion are basically the same thing. So yes that is why we are talking about them.
"Human's rape" yeah, but some of us do it more than the others. Please stop with this childish, mind numbing over simplification of things.
"Islamic" countries aren't even really Islamic in their laws, at least not 100%, obvisouly there will be some things that are the same, but not all. So using statistcis, which are alreayd unreliable, from "muslim" countries doesn't really prove your point.
"Islamic" countries aren't even really Islamic in their laws, at least not 100%, obvisouly there will be some things that are the same, but not all. So using statistcis, which are alreayd unreliable, from "muslim" countries doesn't really prove your point.
I explicitly used statistics from non-Islamic countries such as France, England, Germany etc. The issues I adressed are much worse in the Islamic countries.
But no matter what poll or research I post, no matter how credible it is, you label it as unreliable and biased. That's a really one sided view if anything. You don't accept any critisism nor do you admit the problems. Therefore there's no point in these discussions so please stay inside your bubble.
I explicitly used statistics from non-Islamic countries such as France, England, Germany etc. The issues I adressed are much worse in the Islamic countries.
But no matter what poll or research I post, no matter how credible it is, you label it as unreliable and biased. That's a really one sided view if anything. You don't accept any critisism nor do you admit the problems. Therefore there's no point in these discussions so please stay inside your bubble.
Nope, I'm not saying it's biased, I'm just saying what those muslims believe isn't correct. Sure, You can say "but it's their interpretation", and you would be right ... BUT, the verses of the Quran are basically examplified in the life of the Prophet and his close companions, and yet they never did anything you or those statistics claim they did and/or supported, EI raping woman to humiliate them or abusing woman.